Current Weapon Balance Plan: Feedback/Discuss

DMR:

> …One suggests that we should reduce the power of the DMR, and the other suggests that alternate weapons should be bumped up to balance out the sandbox. Both things being said, there can be a middle ground. Looking at the DMR, we currently feel that the kill time should remain unchanged, as the weapon has become a clear favorite amongst the community due to its reliability and consistency.

So disappointing to hear that currently no nerf will be given to the DMR. Especially, before any tweaks (which should be minor) are made to the other precision loadout weapons.

Leaving the kill time unchanged is okay, but your joking if you think that the DMR is a clear favorite amongst the community for any reason other than it’s the most effective primary weapon. It doesn’t have any drawbacks and sports the biggest advantage with it’s incredible aim assist range. That’s why it’s a favorite, duh.

The DMR’s range needs to be reduced, period. Map movement and position jockeying is suffering on the bigger maps and big team games due to it. I suggest reducing it to the same range as the Light Rifle when zoomed-in, which still affords it an advantage over the BR, Carbine, and unzoomed LR. It also could receive an additional minor nerf-ish tweak on top of this, but the range reduction is the most crucial to improving gameplay on the bigger maps and big team games.

The other notable nerf direction would be to reduce it’s Rate of Fire ensuring it has an honest disadvantage against the other primaries in their ranges, but nothing too severe. Though, this alters its’ TTK, which you didn’t fancy.

Regardless to which of these nerfs are chosen it probably could use some additional minor tweaks to help better balance it amongst the other precision primaries, such as increasing the reload time, reducing the magazine clip, and/or decreasing its bullet magnetism.

BR:

> Right now, we feel that the mid-range role of this weapon is undermined by the strength of the DMR. To combat this, we are looking at decreasing the kill time for the Battle Rifle through various tweaks. This means testing a “4-shot BR” (currently, the Battle Rifle takes 5 bursts to kill) with a reduced rate of fire, though these changes are not final.

With a proper nerf to the DMR, I think the BR just needs to ensure that it’s Time to Kill is theoretically better than the DMR within it’s effective range, but not grossly better. I’d prefer it kept its current 13 shots, but 12 is okay to.

LR:

> At this time, we have adjusted the Light Rifle’s range at which the reticle turns red to match the DMR.

NO!!!

God no! This is a joke, right? This is a terrible, Terrible, TERRIBLE idea! What in the hell are you thinking 343i? So incredibly disappointing to hear about this change. I have faith that you guys will continue to improve the game, but this is not improvement, this is just stupid.

It’s bad enough having the DMR as a deterrent to map movement and position jockeying, but now you want to add a legit 4-shot kill weapon to the mix too. You’re out of your minds if you got the impression from the forums that this is what the majority of the community that speaks out wants.

The LR should maintain it’s current zoomed-in range and it should maintain it’s noticeable TTK advantage over all the other precision primaries when used in its zoomed-in state, while having the biggest TTK disadvantage when used unscoped. Basically, it’s perfectly fine as is. It’s just very overshadowed by the current DMR, but a proper nerf to that weapon should ensure that the LR is a very viable longer range option.

All I can say is, thank god this is not a final decision, otherwise I would stop playing any big team games or playlists that included big or medium-big maps… or perhaps I’ll just quit out at the last second every time one shows up as my way of saying FU to the weapon balance decision you foolishly went with.

CC:

> The Carbine has been adjusted to take one less shot to kill, bringing it to a 7-shot kill. This change was applied because we felt that players who used this weapon and took the time to become skilled with it were not rewarded due to the weapon’s kill time.

Not a bad fix for the Carbine, but the fire rate cap might need to be adjusted to ensure its theoretical fastest TTK isn’t significantly better then the BR. My fear is that players who can rapidly spam it at its max RoF will cause it to be overpowered. I believe the weapon only really needed a bigger magazine clip, because it had a pretty fast TTK already. It was just held back due to it’s very limited ammunition per it’s required expenditure for kills.

Autos:

> The above tweaks have also led to the need to adjust the automatic weapons, which would likely be beaten at even the closest of ranges if tuning ended with the above changes. As a result, the Assault Rifle, Suppressor and Storm Rifle have all received a slight damage buff along with an auto-aim decrease that requires players to be more accurate than they would have previously.

The loadout Autos should just be moved into the secondary category. Then they wouldn’t really need to be adjusted much, if at all.

Personally, I’d like to see the Autos and the Magnum be the only secondary options with a beefed-up pre-nerfed Boltshot and a buffed Plasma Pistol turned into power weapons or map pick-ups, but keeping them as secondaries is okay too with a few additional minor nerfing tweaks.

If the PP was removed from the loadouts, it could mean that the turrets wouldn’t necessarily need any kind of significant buff since not everyone would have a Plasma Pistol and the Wheelman Tactical Package might require some tweaking to. Also, adjustments to the vehicles to allow ballistics to be a bit more effective in damaging them, but offset that a bit by giving them a bit more health in return, so that a team can’t just easily take down a vehicle with a slight amount of concentrated fire, like in Reach.

If not that then allow me to direct you to some excellent ideas and reasoning put forth by MADMAN Redux for a more ideal, but labor intensive change that improves the Autos as Primaries.

There idea is fine, but I agree they should reduce the DMR’s RRR and not increase the LR’s.

I think the Carbine needs to be faster than it is now compared to the BR. Having to land many more shots makes it a much more skilled weapon, and under the 4 shot kill scenario a BR will be able to achieve 3 kills with a single clip, that combined with any easy 4sk will more than balanced it with a fast Carbine.

I’m not going to lie, with all the weapons being buffed as they are, the only big problem is the DMR’s RRR.

To combat cross mapping and to make the 4sk BR a skilled kill, all the utility rifles should be a little harder to shoot whether that means decreased aim assist, decreased bullet magnetism, and/or increased bas movement speed. That will fix that problem, even if it is just the slightest alteration.

Their changes are fine for now.

Obviously the DMR needs less range, and aim-netism needs nerfed across the board, but otherwise its all fine.

OP: I would agree with you with except of automatics issue. I actually like AR or Suppressor being fair opponent for BR. Secondary category should be what it’s always been: last chance weapon when you have no time for reloading or want to do very particular thing (like taking down enemy’s shield), where all kinds of pistols suits just fine (I’m not talking only about Halo).

Decision of choosing SR or AR or BR or LR should be upon what distance I’ll be mostly fighting on (and what tactic will I use to bring these fights to that distance). Not that one weapon is in general better of worse than other weapon.

> There idea is fine, but I agree they should reduce the DMR’s RRR and not increase the LR’s.

> Their changes are fine for now.
>
> Obviously the DMR needs less range, and aim-netism needs nerfed across the board, but otherwise its all fine.

It’s certainly a starting point, but I still believe it would have been better to start by reeling in the DMR before addressing the other precision primaries and the biggest change that was needed wasn’t only avoided, but they actually caused the issue to get even worse by making another weapon arguably an even bigger accomplice to the problem and that’s the ridiculous aim assist range the DMR has and per this adjustment the LR too. That aim assist range turns so many bigger maps and big team games into campy stand-offs in that the ability to flank or maneuver around a team is severely restricted due to that range capability. For example: Ragnarok isn’t anywhere near as fun as it use to be in Halo 3, because of this very problem.

> I think the Carbine needs to be faster than it is now compared to the BR. Having to land many more shots makes it a much more skilled weapon, and under the 4 shot kill scenario a BR will be able to achieve 3 kills with a single clip, that combined with any easy 4sk will more than balanced it with a fast Carbine.

First off, let me just say that I question the accuracy of a lot of the TTKs people float out there as the frames per second of the game have a dramatic effect on a weapon’s TTKs.

What is known for sure is that the Carbine’s current RoF is extremely high, but it’s TTK is held in check by a high bullet requirement. I don’t mind if that requirement is reduced by 1, but I just want to know that 343i are going to focus on ensuring that the theoretical TTK per the weapon’s max fire rate doesn’t dramatically stand out as better than the BR, which it’s suppose to compete evenly with in the same range, which is why I thought it would be better to focus on it’s magazine size. Given a similar theoretical TTK between the two weapons, an increase to its’ magazine size providing it an ability to kill approximately an equal amount of players to the BR per the magazine and total starting ammunition. Any further balance modifications between the two can focus on reload and switch times.

> OP: I would agree with you, with the exception of the automatics issue. I actually like the AR or Suppressor being a fair opponent for a BR.

Fair enough view point, but are the Automatics truly a fair opponent to the BR? I’d argue not enough so. If you’re close enough to get a melee strike in then it’s questionable as to who would win the match-up. If the engagement range is a bit further back then melee range then the AR should triumph, but I’ve begun to notice that the range gap in which the AR is suppose to stand out as superior isn’t all that large. Go back further from that and you have a situation where it might actually be equal between the two of them. A little further yet and the BR gains the advantage, but anything beyond the AR’s quite limited range and it’s no contest. As a Primary offering I’d like to see more from the Auto in their depth and utility, which is why I referenced MADMAN Redux. He’s given some excellent insight and thought toward a method to do just that. It focuses on the concept and mechanic of the ODST SMG, but because that’s a vast change from the current situation in Halo 4 in regards to the working manner of the Autos that’s why I suggested moving them into the secondary grouping.

> Secondary category should be what it’s always been: last chance weapon when you have no time for reloading or want to do a very particular thing (like taking down enemy’s shield), where all kinds of pistols suits just fine (I’m not talking only about Halo).

Having the Autos put into the secondary category wouldn’t do anything to completely jeopardize that role. Granted choosing an Auto over the Magnum would mean that your switch times would be slower and that you might have a better chance of winning a match-up in that limited range where they can actually compete with the primaries, but that’s also sort of the case already with the existing secondaries. The extremely high fire rate of the Magnum allows it to out perform many of the precision weapons as long as you’re within it’s range, but it comes with less consistent accuracy and a very small clip size. The Boltshot can actually 1SK, so yeah. And the Plasma Pistol can strip a players entire shields away allowing for a quick melee or noob combo to occur.

> The decision of choosing SR or AR or BR or LR should be upon what distance I’ll be mostly fighting on (and what tactic will I use to bring these fights to that distance). Not that one weapon is in general better of worse than other weapon.

Agreed, but having Autos included as secondaries ultimately doesn’t change that aspect of Halo 4 as that’s already the case and it would continue to be the case even with Autos as default secondary options. The only options that would be taken away if my preference could be realized is that the benefits of the Boltshot and the Plasma Pistol wouldn’t be available per the loadouts.