Current state of Halo MM

Games Other Halo
1

Here is the facts, as I see them.

A. Many millions played Halo 3 MM; that is a fact.

B. Between 2007 and 2010, many millions left Halo 3 MM; for many different and varying reasons; that is a fact.

C. Bungie made Halo 3 and Bungie realized as did many players who left Halo 3 MM, that it was very flawed…no sprint, bad ranking system which unintentionally enabled cheating, selling of accounts and so very much more; fact.

D. Bungie attempted to fix some of the issues with Halo 3 MM by introducing sprint, AAs and other tings and removing competitive ranks, other than for Arena, with its Halo Reach MM; another fact.

E. Fact is that the many millions that played Halo 3 MM never, ever turned up to even play Halo Reach MM. This can be for many reasons but, I suspect that the major flaws with Halo 3 MM accounts for most of it and then the many new games on the market, which Halo now had to compete with. People simply did not come back from the Halo 3 MM days to even give Halo Reach a chance, thus, attempting to state that sprint, AAs etc are to blame or Halo Reach, is wrong. People left Halo 3 for reasons relating to Halo 3 and never came back; another fact.

F. 343i took over and continued along the path that Bungie started with Halo Reach; another fact.

G. Only half the first day playing population of Halo Reach MM turned up for Halo 4 MM. Halo Reach MM launch day had a peek around 1 million…Halo 4 around half million; more facts.

H. Many people that played Halo Reach MM did not show up for Halo 4 MM. Therefore, Halo 4 cannot be the blamed, but residual Halo 3 issues and issues with Halo Reach, as well as even more competition from other games can be; fact!

I. The hate for Halo 4 MM and Infinity is wrong/misplaced. How can 343i and Halo 4 MM be blamed for the state of things when the millions that played Halo 3 MM did not even show up to give Halo Reach a chance? And, if the millions did not turn up to give Halo Reach MM a chance and thus not turn up to give Halo 4 MM a chance either, how on Earth can an argument be mounted that some old Halo 3 MM versions is preferred by the wider Halo fan base over Infinity when that wider Halo MM fan base did not ever pick up an XBox controller, insert Halo Reach and/or Halo 4 MM and try it?

J. This wider Halo MM fan base actually is a myth! MM is no longer the draw card for Halo and never will be again. The large Halo MM fan base left during the Halo 3 MM days due to the major flaws with that MM variant. Over 9 million purchased Halo 4 and the vast majority did so for the campaign; that is a fact.

K. For those that actually did turn up for Halo 4 MM on launch day, BTIS and IS were number one and two most populated and have been ever since; that is a fact.

L. No matter what 343i have done over the past months to give the small remnants of the Halo 3 MM days something which they like, the fact remains that those Halo 3 styled play lists/modes are the least popular. Team Throwdown is sixteenth on the list, Legendary Slayer thirteenth on the list.

M. The Halo 4 MM population has declined since launch day. That is no surprise at all! There are many reason as to why this has been so. For some, it is because they did not like Infinity.For most, though, it is because of how modern day gamers are. They give a game a go and then move onto the next game, as there is so much competition out there that hardly anyone but die hard franchise fans play a single title to death. Rather, they play many different games and do not stick to one.

N. The inconvenient truth is that the 9 million Halo 4 game owners purchased the said disks for the campaign; Halo MM is but a very small part of what the Halo fan base likes; the millions that played Halo 3 MM never turned up to give Halo Reach MM a try; even less turned up to Halo 4 MM; blaming Bungie and Halo Reach and 343i and Halo 4 is wrong as the millions that left did so during the Halo 3 MM days and never came back, therefore, Halo 3 MM is to blame.

2

These aren’t facts at all. I remember you saying you never even played Halo 3 so how can you come to this conclusion about one of the greatest Halo games ever? Halo 3 is not so flawed as you think. Everything you listed is huge assumptions and opinion. We never wanted AA’s or sprint. I was there in the days of Halo 3. You say so many players left Halo 3 but Halo 3 was in the top 3 spots of most played xbl games for 3 years straight.

Here is a fact for you: Many players still play Halo 3 including myself, still better than Reach and Halo 4 combined. I am technically one of those so called people in your post that likes Halo 3 but guess what? I played Halo Reach and Halo 4, they aren’t nearly as good as Halo 3 to me. So please, before you lump every long time Halo player in a group assuming they never gave Reach and Halo 4 a chance you should ask them first before flaunting the word ‘fact’ around like it’s some kind of truth but it’s not.

3

> Here is the facts, <mark>as I see them.</mark>

This does not make them all facts.

> A. Many millions played Halo 3 MM; that is a fact.

A few million, maybe, but fine.

> B. Between 2007 and 2010, many millions left Halo 3 MM; for many different and varying reasons; that is a fact.

A lot left to play the next Halo. Halo: Reach.

> C. Bungie made Halo 3 and Bungie realized as did many players who left Halo 3 MM, that it was very flawed…no sprint, bad ranking system which unintentionally enabled cheating, selling of accounts and so very much more; fact.

Not a fact.

> D. Bungie attempted to fix some of the issues with Halo 3 MM by introducing sprint, AAs and other tings and removing competitive ranks, other than for Arena, with its Halo Reach MM; another fact.

Also not a fact.

> E. Fact is that the many millions that played Halo 3 MM never, ever turned up to even play Halo Reach MM. This can be for many reasons but, <mark>I suspect</mark> that the major flaws with Halo 3 MM accounts for most of it and then the many new games on the market, which Halo now had to compete with. People simply did not come back from the Halo 3 MM days to even give Halo Reach a chance, thus, attempting to state that sprint, AAs etc are to blame or Halo Reach, is wrong. People left Halo 3 for reasons relating to Halo 3 and never came back; another fact.

Just because you suspect something does not make it a fact.

I came back from Halo 3 to give Halo: Reach multiplayer a chance, as did many, many others. I grew used to armor abilities, but never really accepted that they would stick around. I thought they would die out, given the sheer volume of complaints against them.

I left Halo 3 only to play the latest iteration of my favorite franchise at the time, Halo: Reach, but it didn’t deliver. Regardless, I still gave it more than a fair chance to win me over. It never did.

> F. 343i took over and continued along the path that Bungie started with Halo Reach; another fact.

Fine.

> G. Only half the first day playing population of Halo Reach MM turned up for Halo 4 MM. Halo Reach MM launch day had a peek around 1 million…Halo 4 around half million; more facts.

I am not disagreeing with this one because I do not know for sure for myself, but I would very much like your source on this.

> H. Many people that played Halo Reach MM did not show up for Halo 4 MM. Therefore, Halo 4 cannot be the blamed, but residual Halo 3 issues and issues with Halo Reach, as well as even more competition from other games can be; fact!

I, still along with many others, also returned for Halo 4 matchmaking. I have played both Halo 3 and Halo: Reach matchmaking.

For emphasis, as a matter of fact, I have also played Halo 2 matchmaking and Halo: CE locally. Are you to say that those who played Halo 2 matchmaking did not return for Halo 3 matchmaking? Where are we getting these new populations of fans that are completely disjointed from the population of the previous iteration of Halo?

> I. The hate for Halo 4 MM and Infinity is wrong/misplaced. How can 343i and Halo 4 MM be blamed for the state of things when the millions that played Halo 3 MM did not even show up to give Halo Reach a chance? And, if the millions did not turn up to give Halo Reach MM a chance and thus not turn up to give Halo 4 MM a chance either, how on Earth can an argument be mounted that some old Halo 3 MM versions is preferred by the wider Halo fan base over Infinity when that wider Halo MM fan base did not ever pick up an XBox controller, insert Halo Reach and/or Halo 4 MM and try it?

Where are you getting your information from? Where are you making up these radical assumptions? How can anything you say here be considered credible with absolutely no proof, despite your repeated claims that everything here is “fact?” Have you researched every single gamertag from every iteration, taking note of which game it was used in, and ruled out any matchmaking play time in all other Halo games?

> J. This wider Halo MM fan base actually is a myth! MM is no longer the draw card for Halo and never will be again. The large Halo MM fan base left during the Halo 3 MM days due to the major flaws with that MM variant. Over 9 million purchased Halo 4 and the vast majority did so for the campaign; that is a fact.

Not a fact at all. Are you to speak for everybody’s intentions on purchasing the game? I purchased Halo 4 mainly for the hope that matchmaking would return to its former glory - campaign was just a side-treat.

> K. For those that actually did turn up for Halo 4 MM on launch day, BTIS and IS were number one and two most populated and have been ever since; that is a fact.

Fine, this is more easily proved/disproved, but I would still like your source on this as well.

> L. No matter what 343i have done over the past months to give the small remnants of the Halo 3 MM days something which they like, the fact remains that those Halo 3 styled play lists/modes are the least popular. Team Throwdown is sixteenth on the list, Legendary Slayer thirteenth on the list.

There are no “Halo 3” styled playlists in Halo 4. Legendary Slayer is the closest we have, and it is the ONLY playlist of its kind. The reasons for this are entirely subjective (albeit likely explained, take a look around the forums as to why).

> M. The Halo 4 MM population has declined since launch day. That is no surprise at all! There are many reason as to why this has been so. For some, it is because they did not like Infinity.For most, though, it is because of how modern day gamers are. They give a game a go and then move onto the next game, as there is so much competition out there that hardly anyone but die hard franchise fans play a single title to death. Rather, they play many different games and do not stick to one.

You do not speak for all “modern gamers.”

> N. The inconvenient truth is that the 9 million Halo 4 game owners purchased the said disks for the campaign; Halo MM is but a very small part of what the Halo fan base likes; the millions that played Halo 3 MM never turned up to give Halo Reach MM a try; even less turned up to Halo 4 MM; blaming Bungie and Halo Reach and 343i and Halo 4 is wrong as the millions that left did so during the Halo 3 MM days and never came back, therefore, Halo 3 MM is to blame.

Your logic bewilders me. At this point you are borderline trolling. Please read your posts before you post them next time, and listen to what you’re saying.

4

Makes me wonder if Wolfblade’s on the 343 payroll. It might as well be a joke post.

Halo 4 had a metric whole bunch of new problems, unique to it, that have disenfranchised players. Keep in mind the game still lets you pick BoltShot loadouts after people have complained about it being universally a bad idea. Same going for the way weapons were rebalanced—instead of the DMR being nerfed, the BR was buffed, now making even more of an imbalanced situation compared to the other weapons (especially the assault rifle, which post-Halo 3 might as well not even matter as a weapon anymore). Or how about 343 removing all the usual flexibility in picking settings & options in custom games?

The list could go on for several pages. Apologism and blaming Halo 3 is not explanation enough for why Halo 4 is going by the wayside.

5

No sprint and ranks are mistakes?

lololololol

6

> These aren’t facts at all. <mark>I remember you saying you never even played Halo 3 so how can you come to this conclusion about one of the greatest Halo games ever?</mark> Halo 3 is not so flawed as you think. Everything you listed is huge assumptions and opinion. We never wanted AA’s or sprint. I was there in the days of Halo 3. You say so many players left Halo 3 but Halo 3 was in the top 3 spots of most played xbl games for 3 years straight.
>
> Here is a fact for you: Many players still play Halo 3 including myself, still better than Reach and Halo 4 combined. I am technically one of those so called people in your post that likes Halo 3 but guess what? I played Halo Reach and Halo 4, they aren’t nearly as good as Halo 3 to me. So please, before you lump every long time Halo player in a group assuming they never gave Reach and Halo 4 a chance you should ask them first before flaunting the word ‘fact’ around like it’s some kind of truth but it’s not.

Hahah I keep thinking the same thing every time I read one of his post where he talks about past Halo’s compared to Halo reach or 4.

7

You cannot honestly claim to know everyone is who has ever played a Halo game, and what their reasons are for playing or not playing any particular game. To suggest that millions of people have refused to play Halo Reach and Halo 4 based solely on what you think is wrong with Halo 3 is downright laughable.

Simply vomiting out a litany of speculations and calling them “facts” does not make any of them Factual. Do you really expect anyone to believe such ridiculous statements?

8

is he trolling?

9

First of all, Halo 3 was not really that flawed. You think it was flawed because it did not have sprint or AAs. That is not true at all. Secondly don’t group all gamers into one category like that because it is very biased. You have created a one sided thread that does not use concise reasons about the current state of Halo Multiplayer

10

Weren’t Halo 2 and Halo 3 (very similar games) both VERY well known for their matchmaking longevity? The complaints with trueskill compared to no available ranking system seems a little overblown considering that Halo 3 offered a social version of many playlists.

I would suspect that many people didn’t pony up for Halo Reach because as a prequel they perceived it as a spin off or non main installment. I know I didn’t initially get Halo Reach because it didn’t advance the story and I was content to play Halo 3, which for quite some time after Reach came out still provided me with a more than adequate game play experience. I would be willing to give my nickle guarantee to you that almost the same day that Halo 5 comes out, Halo 4 will utterly die.

Regardless, to blame Halo 3 for all the people that left when it is generally regarded by the people I have heard from as the high water mark of the franchise for online experience seems a little backwards.

11

> Here is the facts, as I see them.
>
> A. Many millions played Halo 3 MM; that is a fact.
>
> Ok
>
> B. Between 2007 and 2010, many millions left Halo 3 MM; for many different and varying reasons; that is a fact.
>
> True people started leaving. CoD and its rising popularity starting with Modern Warfare had a lot to do with it. Also Reach came out.
>
> C. Bungie made Halo 3 and Bungie realized as did many players who left Halo 3 MM, that it was very flawed…no sprint, bad ranking system which unintentionally enabled cheating, selling of accounts and so very much more; fact.
>
> True Bungie wanted to try and fix mistakes that Halo 3 had. Sprint, many would argue, isn’t one of them. I personally hated movement in Halo 3, but it wasn’t broken, it was just slow. Sprint in Reach was broken. Some will try and tell you the ranking system in Halo 3 was the best ranking system ever made. But you are right in that it was flawed.
>
> D. Bungie attempted to fix some of the issues with Halo 3 MM by introducing sprint, AAs and other tings and removing competitive ranks, other than for Arena, with its Halo Reach MM; another fact.
>
> Once again many would argue the lack of sprint wasn’t a problem and I’m not sure Bungie added it because they thought the lack of it was a problem. AA’s were something new they wanted to try. I thought Arena was an improvement over the 1-50 system especially after it was updated for W/L. But as I said 1-50 has its fans.
>
> E. Fact is that the many millions that played Halo 3 MM never, ever turned up to even play Halo Reach MM. This can be for many reasons but, I suspect that the major flaws with Halo 3 MM accounts for most of it and then the many new games on the market, which Halo now had to compete with. People simply did not come back from the Halo 3 MM days to even give Halo Reach a chance, thus, attempting to state that sprint, AAs etc are to blame or Halo Reach, is wrong. People left Halo 3 for reasons relating to Halo 3 and never came back; another fact.
>
> I’m sure many of them tried it, not all of them liked it. But as I said before CoD and its rising popularity helped kick start Halo’s decline. Reach and now Halo 4 was never going to be as popular as H3 no matter how they turned out. Also your right more and more games were hitting the market.
>
> F. 343i took over and continued along the path that Bungie started with Halo Reach; another fact.
>
> Sure.
>
> G. Only half the first day playing population of Halo Reach MM turned up for Halo 4 MM. Halo Reach MM launch day had a peek around 1 million…Halo 4 around half million; more facts.
>
> I don’t like getting into pop counts because each game counted differently. Each game also didnt take everything into account. Also 343i stated H4 was the most successful launch in the franchise.
>
>
> H. Many people that played Halo Reach MM did not show up for Halo 4 MM. Therefore, Halo 4 cannot be the blamed, but residual Halo 3 issues and issues with Halo Reach, as well as even more competition from other games can be; fact!
>
> Halo 4 did have launch issues and it didn’t help. Every game does though but still. Once again CoD didn’t help and yes the 360 had a bigger library of games then it did when Halo 3 launched or even Reach. So there are many reasons for Halo 4’s lack of popularity, a single thing can’t be pointed to.
>
>
> I. The hate for Halo 4 MM and Infinity is wrong/misplaced. How can 343i and Halo 4 MM be blamed for the state of things when the millions that played Halo 3 MM did not even show up to give Halo Reach a chance? And, if the millions did not turn up to give Halo Reach MM a chance and thus not turn up to give Halo 4 MM a chance either, how on Earth can an argument be mounted that some old Halo 3 MM versions is preferred by the wider Halo fan base over Infinity when that wider Halo MM fan base did not ever pick up an XBox controller, insert Halo Reach and/or Halo 4 MM and try it?
>
> Once again I don’t know why you keep saying millions that played Halo 3 never tried Reach. Im sure a lot did. How many people do you think play Halo? H3 has only sold around 12 mill to date so it wasn’t that high when Reach came out and not all of them play online. I think you’re throwing the word millions around too loosely.
> The way that I see it and hopefully most Halo players do too is that each game has its problems. 343i needs to take the best parts of each to create a solid core for a great game.
>
> J. This wider Halo MM fan base actually is a myth! MM is no longer the draw card for Halo and never will be again. The large Halo MM fan base left during the Halo 3 MM days due to the major flaws with that MM variant. Over 9 million purchased Halo 4 and the vast majority did so for the campaign; that is a fact.
>
> No doubt there were plenty of people bought H4 for the campaign but once again you’re playing a numbers game that you can’t possibly know.
>
> K. For those that actually did turn up for Halo 4 MM on launch day, BTIS and IS were number one and two most populated and have been ever since; that is a fact.
>
> That’s true.
>
> L. No matter what 343i have done over the past months to give the small remnants of the Halo 3 MM days something which they like, the fact remains that those Halo 3 styled play lists/modes are the least popular. Team Throwdown is sixteenth on the list, Legendary Slayer thirteenth on the list.
>
> Team Throwdown is a community playlist and is meant for professional style of play and is a place professional and highly competitive players to call home. Because of that it wasn’t going to be highly populated any way. So I wouldn’t call it “Halo 3 style” especially since it has sprint, PODs, AAs, and ordnance indicators. Legendary Slayer is new and it needs polishing as it has turn offs of its own.
>
> M. <mark>The Halo 4 MM population has declined since launch day. That is no surprise at all! There are many reason as to why this has been so.</mark> For some, it is because they did not like Infinity.For most, though, it is because of how modern day gamers are. They give a game a go and then move onto the next game, as there is so much competition out there that hardly anyone but die hard franchise fans play a single title to death. Rather, they play many different games and do not stick to one.
>
> Well there you go. I don’t know why you felt the need to write everything else then.
>
> N. The inconvenient truth is that the 9 million Halo 4 game owners purchased the said disks for the campaign; Halo MM is but a very small part of what the Halo fan base likes; the millions that played Halo 3 MM never turned up to give Halo Reach MM a try; even less turned up to Halo 4 MM; blaming Bungie and Halo Reach and 343i and Halo 4 is wrong as the millions that left did so during the Halo 3 MM days and never came back, therefore, Halo 3 MM is to blame.
>
> Once again dude your trying playing a numbers game you can’t. As I said above each game has its problems and there are various reasons for Halo’s decline as of late. But with a new console coming out, franchise fatigue with CoD, and hopefully Halo 5 kicking -Yoink-, Halo can rebound. We are starting to see it getting a little better now.

12

Ok WolfBlade XIII, here is the deal.

I’ve noticed a pattern happening with regards to the claims that you make (and this is not unique to you).
It usually goes something like this:

  1. You make a post which presents your opinions as facts, often by punctuating every sentence with the word “fact”.
  2. Then people reply to you by refuting the claims that you make with reasonable responses, and you usually do not reply to the counter-arguments.
  3. Instead, you continue to post the same claims over and over again in other threads.

What I’d like is to challenge you to interrupt that pattern and change a few things today.

Since you started the subject by creating the thread, I’ll reply to each point that I disagree with, making sure to point out why I believe your logic is flawed.
Then I’d like you to reply to each of my points, explaining why you do or do not agree with what I have said. Making sure that you address the actual logic and reasoning behind my replies.

> Here is the facts, as I see them.
>
> A. Many millions played Halo 3 MM; that is a fact.

I’d like to start by asking what you are inferring with this point, if anything?

> B. Between 2007 and 2010, many millions left Halo 3 MM; for many different and varying reasons; that is a fact.

Many thousands, not millions. Already we have a claim that is presented as a fact, which is really not a fact.

I’d also like to ask you, what are you inferring with this point?

> C. Bungie made Halo 3 and Bungie realized as did many players who left Halo 3 MM, that it was very flawed…no sprint, bad ranking system which unintentionally enabled cheating, selling of accounts and so very much more; fact.

First of all, I’d like to ask you for evidence that Bungie have claimed that Halo 3’s lack of sprint was a flaw. Keep in mind that I am looking for the proof that one or more Bungie representatives have said this. Later games including sprint is not evidence.
If you can not present this to me, then your use of the word “fact” is inaccurate.

> D. Bungie attempted to fix some of the issues with Halo 3 MM by introducing sprint, AAs and other tings and removing competitive ranks, other than for Arena, with its Halo Reach MM; another fact.

You are misrepresenting the facts with this point. It is a fact that Halo Reach included AA’s, removed competitive ranks and introduced sprint.

You take this further by throwing the words “fix” and “issues” into the claim. It is nothing more than your opinion that a lack of sprint, lack of AA’s or the inclusion of a competitive ranking system were “issues” with Halo 3.

You will do well to make sure you seperate your opinions from the facts.

> E. Fact is that the many millions that played Halo 3 MM never, ever turned up to even play Halo Reach MM. This can be for many reasons but, I suspect that the major flaws with Halo 3 MM accounts for most of it and then the many new games on the market, which Halo now had to compete with. People simply did not come back from the Halo 3 MM days to even give Halo Reach a chance, thus, attempting to state that sprint, AAs etc are to blame or Halo Reach, is wrong. People left Halo 3 for reasons relating to Halo 3 and never came back; another fact.

“Fact is that the many millions that played Halo 3 MM never, ever turned up to even play Halo Reach MM.”
I am one of the people that played Halo 3 MM, and I “turned up” to play Halo Reach. This alone proves your claim wrong.

Can I ask you for the evidence that people who played Halo 3 didn’t try Halo Reach? If you can’t present it to me, then your use of the word “fact” is inaccurate.

> F. 343i took over and continued along the path that Bungie started with Halo Reach; another fact.

Yes, are you implying something with this? Or just presenting a fact for no reason.

> G. Only half the first day playing population of Halo Reach MM turned up for Halo 4 MM. Halo Reach MM launch day had a peek around 1 million…Halo 4 around half million; more facts.

I’ll be honest, I don’t know how true this is, but if we were to pretend it was true, what are you trying to suggest by saying this?

> H. Many people that played Halo Reach MM did not show up for Halo 4 MM. Therefore, Halo 4 cannot be the blamed, but residual Halo 3 issues and issues with Halo Reach, as well as even more competition from other games can be; fact!

I can’t even begin to describe how substantially flawed your logic is here.

How do you explain away the possibility that many people didn’t like that Halo 4 was to include things such as sprint, personal ordnance, armor abilities and much more?
Your claim here is based upon the assumption that nothing was known about Halo 4 prior to its release, and seeing as this is clearly not true, point H is not a fact.

> I. The hate for Halo 4 MM and Infinity is wrong/misplaced. How can 343i and Halo 4 MM be blamed for the state of things when the millions that played Halo 3 MM did not even show up to give Halo Reach a chance? And, if the millions did not turn up to give Halo Reach MM a chance and thus not turn up to give Halo 4 MM a chance either, how on Earth can an argument be mounted that some old Halo 3 MM versions is preferred by the wider Halo fan base over Infinity when that wider Halo MM fan base did not ever pick up an XBox controller, insert Halo Reach and/or Halo 4 MM and try it?

“The hate for Halo 4 MM and Infinity is wrong/misplaced” - this is nothing more than your opinion, and it is an ill-informed opinion, due to the fact that people have given plenty of reasons for disliking Halo 4.
Also, you’ve presented this opinion in a thread that is supposed to be comprised of facts.

The rest of this claim is based on the idea that the “millions” who played Halo 3 MM, did not play Halo Reach or Halo 4. Agian, I’d like to see the proof.

> J. This wider Halo MM fan base actually is a myth! MM is no longer the draw card for Halo and never will be again. The large Halo MM fan base left during the Halo 3 MM days due to the major flaws with that MM variant. Over 9 million purchased Halo 4 and the vast majority did so for the campaign; that is a fact.

“This wider Halo MM fan base actually is a myth!” - I serve as proof that this claim is wrong. I am a Halo MM fan that is not a Halo 4 MM fan, therfore the fan base does go beyond Halo 4. Also, there are plenty of other people who dislike Halo 4 MM, yet like Halo MM (as in other Halo games). All you need to do is take a look at enough threads on here and you will see that this is true.

“Over 9 million purchased Halo 4 and the vast majority did so for the campaign” - Proof?

> K. For those that actually did turn up for Halo 4 MM on launch day, BTIS and IS were number one and two most populated and have been ever since; that is a fact.

Right, and what is it that you are implying with this?

(I’ve run out of space, keep your eye out for the rest of my reply)

13

(continued)

> L. No matter what 343i have done over the past months to give the small remnants of the Halo 3 MM days something which they like, the fact remains that those Halo 3 styled play lists/modes are the least popular. Team Throwdown is sixteenth on the list, Legendary Slayer thirteenth on the list.

“small remnants of the Halo 3 MM days” - This is nothing more than an assumption.

“those Halo 3 styled playlists/modes are the least popular” - They are not Halo 3 “styled”. They include many features (such as sprint) that are not in Halo 3, they are also in a game that was built from the ground up for Infinity style gameplay.

> M. The Halo 4 MM population has declined since launch day. That is no surprise at all! There are many reason as to why this has been so. For some, it is because they did not like Infinity.For most, though, it is because of how modern day gamers are. They give a game a go and then move onto the next game, as there is so much competition out there that hardly anyone but die hard franchise fans play a single title to death. Rather, they play many different games and do not stick to one.

“for most though, it is because of how modern gamers are today” - Proof? That’s an assertion which is supported by absolutely no evidence.

> N. The inconvenient truth is that the 9 million Halo 4 game owners purchased the said disks for the campaign; Halo MM is but a very small part of what the Halo fan base likes; the millions that played Halo 3 MM never turned up to give Halo Reach MM a try; even less turned up to Halo 4 MM; blaming Bungie and Halo Reach and 343i and Halo 4 is wrong as the millions that left did so during the Halo 3 MM days and never came back, therefore, Halo 3 MM is to blame.

“Halo MM is but a very small part of what the Halo fan base likes” - Can you please present the evidence to support this claim? This is yet another opinion that is presented as a fact.

Until you prove these claims to be true, they remain to be nothing more than your opinion, regardless of whether or not they are punctuated with the word “fact”.

Ok WolfBlade, the ball is in your court. I’ll be keeping my eye out for your reply.

14

OH Jazzii Mann you just couldn’t help yourself could you!? I don’t blame you buddy, but I believe your time and effort will fall on deaf ears.

I didn’t realize this thread was the exact same post he made in the other thread you and I posted in. Unfortunately a day after and there has still been no response to members rebuttal to his “facts”, and I will be surprised if there is.

On a different note does anyone know of any actual data showing, besides sales data, the player populations of all the Halo game’s MM? I have looked a bit but all I seem to find are the sales of the games.

I wasn’t around Halo MM back in H2 or H3, and mostly what I heard when starting with Reach was how much larger the population was with those games. However, it is one thing to hear about it and another thing to see actual numbers. I just wish there was something that would help to dispel this idea that the OP and others seem to be advocating on here recently.

15

Halo 4 will become the 3rd highest selling Halo game - sensational for what this community says about it sometimes

Halo 3 didn’t have that much top quality competition at the time - now there’s some very good AAA titles out there FIFA, COD, Minecraft, BF3, NBA2K - and that’s my theory for the player count decrease right there, more alternatives

Call of Duty has hit the casual formula - arcade shooter with zero skill gap, no skill 1HK snipers, multiple annual titles (3 Halo P2P MP titles this generation, COD 8 games for 360 alone) - I’ll take Halo over this

16

Halo 3 not having sprint was not a problem, and people didn’t stop playing Halo 3 because it had no sprint.

Where did you get this information from?

Bungie killed Halo with REACH.

Halo 4 has problems because it evolved from REACH and not Halo 3.

17

A lot of facts coming from someone not even Inside the Gaming Industry and did very little research. I love Halo, but the state of things has to do with continued mis-steps from Bungie and 343i. Halo 4 has many more flaws in my opinion that Reach did, and i hated reach, but i like 4 more for some weird reason.

I just feel like they are trying to mess with the orginal formula too much. For instance hit-stop from bullets when trying to run away? Sure maybe trying to add some realism, but STUPIDLY frustrating when trying to run way.

Armor abilites like Vision and Invis? STUPIDLY OP if used in the right way.
Of course Pro slayer eliminates a lot of those problems, except for the AR which is currently very OP. If you miss a shot with a BR you’re pretty much dead, unless they are just a horridly bad player.

I think Halo is in this state right now because of the choices made by the devs trying to inovate to much on the game. As much as i hate COD, they are smart about it. Small changes here and there but keep the basic formula the same. 343i has tried to change far to much from what made Halo so great.

Halo 2 is seen by many as one of the greatest Multiplayer games, and the best Halo Multiplayer, because it was small tweaks and changes from the first one that hit the sweet spot. Amazing simple and fun. Now they are trying to make everything far to complicated i think.

Again all opinion. It’s hard to say why Halo isn’t selling leaps and bounds more than the previous, although some would agree there are very obvious reasons and i am one of them.

18

> Halo 3 not having sprint was not a problem, and people didn’t stop playing Halo 3 because it had no sprint.
>
> Where did you get this information from?
>
> Bungie killed Halo with REACH.
>
> Halo 4 has problems because it evolved from REACH and not Halo 3.

I agree very much with this.

19

> G. Only half the first day playing population of Halo Reach MM turned up for Halo 4 MM. Halo Reach MM launch day had a peek around 1 million…Halo 4 around half million; more facts.
>
> H. Many people that played Halo Reach MM did not show up for Halo 4 MM. Therefore, Halo 4 cannot be the blamed, but residual Halo 3 issues and issues with Halo Reach, as well as even more competition from other games can be; fact!

This is becasue Halo REACH runined Halo’s population not Halo 3.

If Halo REACH had evolved from Halo 3.

Didn’t have AA and Loadouts, had a ranking system and not the XP system.

Halo REACH would had maintained the same population and probably even increased from Halo 3. And if Halo 4 had evolved from this. It be a much better game than the current Halo 4.

It probably be the best Halo game yet, unfortunate Halo 4 evolved from REACH.

And when Halo 3 was out, you still had the option of playing COD or Battlefield, and two games were both highly popular. So comparing Halo 4 to other games that are poplar is not a comparison to Halo 3, because Halo 3 was up against the same crowed.

Most people play a number of games, not just the one.

Halo 4 has failed becasue of Halo REACH.

Halo REACH changed what made Halo 2/3 so great. Halo REACH started the COD path. And Halo 4 has copied more features.

For Halo 5 to stay unique, it needs to evolve from Halo 3, not Halo 4.

Imagine how good Halo 4 would be, if Halo REACH evolved from Halo 3.

20

> I think Halo is in this state right now because of the choices made by the devs trying to inovate to much on the game. As much as i hate COD, they are smart about it. Small changes here and there but keep the basic formula the same. 343i has tried to change far to much from what made Halo so great.
>
> Halo 2 is seen by many as one of the greatest Multiplayer games, and the best Halo Multiplayer, because it was small tweaks and changes from the first one that hit the sweet spot. Amazing simple and fun. Now they are trying to make everything far to complicated i think.

This is why Halo 3 was so great.

It took everything that was Halo 2 and improved them. And removed the issues Halo 2 had.

A perfect evolution, one could say.

The only real change was the addition of Equipment, but it was not game breaking like AA.