CTF Discussion

Games Other Halo
1

Please discuss your thoughts and opinions about Halo 4’s CTF settings.

343i has made drastic changes to what is arguably the most popular objective gametype of Halo, Capture the Flag. CTF is the most basic objective game and has basically remained the same over the course of Halo’s history. You know why? Because it worked, great.

Not being able to drop the flag is ridiculous. First of all, players can now throw oddballs and grifballs, but we can’t simply let go of a flag? I know that it should not be compared to other gametypes, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Dropping the flag serves several game enhancing purposes, like passing the flag to a teammate since you have a power weapon, juggling the flag (in MLG gametypes), throwing it off the enemy team’s base while you stay and cover the flag runners back, and even making that desperate toss as high as you could to inch a bit further because you were about to die. Being able to drop the flag is crucial to Halo’s Capture the Flag.

Don’t force us to hold a flag and a magnum when we can drop it and use our BR or whatever.

The magnum. What? I don’t even have a magnum on me! Another thing I am personally against. Being able to defend yourself at mid (possibly long range if the Magnum is capable, or if you get lucky), range AND move the objective of the game at the same time does not encourage teamwork as much as holding the flag two-handed does. I get that it’s supposed to help players pulling flags against the new breed of spartans, armor abilities, and specializations, but I just don’t think it’s necessary. Pulling flags is supposed to be difficult and encourage teamwork. If someone can move the flag and get kills at the same time, then they don’t need as much help from their teammates.

The magnum is probably a poor excuse at balancing this next game breaking topic.

The waypoint over the Flag Carrier’s head. There’s nothing I like about it, and it’s possible they did this to balance the “Flagnum” aspect, but again, it’s an unnecessary change. It totally destroys the notion of pulling the flag the long way, the sneaky way. If everybody knows where the flag is at all times, the flag will get run the shortest distance all the time. Why take your chances running the flag the long way if they know where you are? How can players even get that neat (but again, unnecessary) Flag Assassination if there’s a waypoint over the carrier’s head? The waypoint over the flag carrier will ultimately just make CTF repetitive and stale because it will run the same route every single time.

The timer counting down until the flag resets is great. Why did we not get this sooner?

Now if you disagree, which is fine, please provide something more than “Adapt” or “You haven’t played it yet”. Some of you might even go so far as to say something like “343i have been working on this game for 3(?) years and are professionals”. Even though they have, there is no reason we can’t disagree with their decisions. Of course, this is all my opinion, and you are all entitled to yours. Whether you agree or disagree, please take some time to think for yourselves, and provide a few sentences or more to back up your opinion.

2

[deleted]

3

In all honesty, I think it looks really fun.

But there being no option to toggle the “forced flag carry” baffles me.

4

Hey up Noooooch, I’m afraid your post will get buried following a hail storm of complaint threads, I think most people are bored of the subject by now. 343 are playing around with objective gametypes most likely as a direct result of the dwindling population in the Objective playlists which has pretty much always existed but amplified in Reach. I do agree there is room for improvement for many gametypes. but CTF… I’m not so sure. 1 flag maybe. But for me multiflag is a staple of the franchise and my personal favourite CTF variant of any FPS. Most other games do some sort of Speed Flag variant :confused:

I have however made an attempt at understanding 343’s thought process and have made a thread explaining what I think was their reasoning behind the changes. Link

5

The sad part is we can actually play it without much difficulty.

Go DL speedflag.

Make magnum secondary.

Create an honor rule where you can only use magnum when carrying the flag.

Set speed to 90%

Put waypoint over flag carrier’s head

I have played it and it is pretty -Yoinking!- terrible to be honest. It makes the gametype 3x more boring.

6

If i am being shot when i am holding the flag i simply drop it and take out my BR or DMR ans help my teammates.

I WILL NEVER TOUCH A FLAG AGAIN!

Why a waypoint over my head? So the bad kids can throw all the nades they can at me?

7

CTF should remain the way it was for the last 10 years. It was perfectly fine. The announcer talks even more now, so ‘flag taken, flag dropped’ being annoying is not a strong argument against the original iteration.

It had a good dynamic. You could increase your speed and have everyone on the map see you, or you could go slower and remain stealthy.

Now everyone sees you at all times and you can’t pass it to a teammate or drop it to use a better weapon. It’s like SpeedFlag, except worse.

RIP CTF :frowning:

8

> The sad part is we can actually play it without much difficulty.
>
>
> Go DL speedflag.
>
> Make magnum secondary.
>
> Create an honor rule where you can only use magnum when carrying the flag.
>
> Set speed to 90%
>
> Put waypoint over flag carrier’s head
>
>
> I have played it and it is pretty -Yoinking!- terrible to be honest. It makes the gametype 3x more boring.

Where have you played it? Enlighten me.

9

One of the issues I have with the new flag mechanics is how your location is given away when you pick up the flag.

Instead I would prefer a system were only if you took damage from an enemy player would the “Kill” icon appear above your head. However if you manage to kill the player lighting you up the “Kill” marker goes away after a few seconds until you receive damage again. This means that if you play smart your location won’t be given away or at least not straight away.

It would be something like the taggging system in BF3. I would much rather prefer no marker at all and simply standard CTF like how it’s been in all previous halo’s but I feel this is a good compromise.

10

> > The sad part is we can actually play it without much difficulty.
> >
> >
> > Go DL speedflag.
> >
> > Make magnum secondary.
> >
> > Create an honor rule where you can only use magnum when carrying the flag.
> >
> > Set speed to 90%
> >
> > Put waypoint over flag carrier’s head
> >
> >
> > I have played it and it is pretty -Yoinking!- terrible to be honest. It makes the gametype 3x more boring.
>
> Where have you played it? Enlighten me.

He’s talking about Reach.

11

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> > The sad part is we can actually play it without much difficulty.
> >
> >
> > Go DL speedflag.
> >
> > Make magnum secondary.
> >
> > Create an honor rule where you can only use magnum when carrying the flag.
> >
> > Set speed to 90%
> >
> > Put waypoint over flag carrier’s head
> >
> >
> > I have played it and it is pretty -Yoinking!- terrible to be honest. It makes the gametype 3x more boring.
>
> Where have you played it? Enlighten me.

Reach dummy

12

> > The sad part is we can actually play it without much difficulty.
> >
> >
> > Go DL speedflag.
> >
> > Make magnum secondary.
> >
> > Create an honor rule where you can only use magnum when carrying the flag.
> >
> > Set speed to 90%
> >
> > Put waypoint over flag carrier’s head
> >
> >
> > I have played it and it is pretty -Yoinking!- terrible to be honest. It makes the gametype 3x more boring.
>
> Where have you played it? Enlighten me.

What, these custom settings or the official gametype? If you were referring to the official gametype, that is not what I was talking about.

I was saying, if you would have payed attention, that you can create a gametype almost identical to this in Halo Reach by doing the above list of custom settings and honor rules.

I have played 3 games of it and it is the worst version of flag I have ever played. Ever. Flag used to be halo’s staple objective gametype and halo did it best IMO. Now COD does it better, which is absolutely pathetic.

13

CTF and general objective play will not work in Halo 4 if this is the general base of it. We still have time before launch, get rid of those settings!

And tone down Jeff’s dialogue, talks waaay to much!

14

I don’t have too much of a problem with the changes. I mainly defend the flag any ways. However, I will not be picking up the flag.

I would like to see an incentive to pick up the flag though… H3 was all about winning and losing. You either got exp or you didn’t. In Reach, all I cared about were the kills… It really didn’t matter if I lost, which made objective games boring.

343i needs to reward winning teams with something of value so that people actually try to win, and thus pick up the flag.

15

> Please discuss your thoughts and opinions about Halo 4’s CTF settings.
>
> 343i has made drastic changes to what is arguably the most popular objective gametype of Halo, Capture the Flag. CTF is the most basic objective game and has basically remained the same over the course of Halo’s history. You know why? Because it worked, great.
>
> Not being able to drop the flag is ridiculous. First of all, players can now throw oddballs and grifballs, but we can’t simply let go of a flag? I know that it should not be compared to other gametypes, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Dropping the flag serves several game enhancing purposes, like passing the flag to a teammate since you have a power weapon, juggling the flag (in MLG gametypes), throwing it off the enemy team’s base while you stay and cover the flag runners back, and even making that desperate toss as high as you could to inch a bit further because you were about to die. Being able to drop the flag is crucial to Halo’s Capture the Flag.
>
> Don’t force us to hold a flag and a magnum when we can drop it and use our BR or whatever.
>
> The magnum. What? I don’t even have a magnum on me! Another thing I am personally against. Being able to defend yourself at mid (possibly long range if the Magnum is capable, or if you get lucky), range AND move the objective of the game at the same time does not encourage teamwork as much as holding the flag two-handed does. I get that it’s supposed to help players pulling flags against the new breed of spartans, armor abilities, and specializations, but I just don’t think it’s necessary. Pulling flags is supposed to be difficult and encourage teamwork. If someone can move the flag and get kills at the same time, then they don’t need as much help from their teammates.
>
> The magnum is probably a poor excuse at balancing this next game breaking topic.
>
> The waypoint over the Flag Carrier’s head. There’s nothing I like about it, and it’s possible they did this to balance the “Flagnum” aspect, but again, it’s an unnecessary change. It totally destroys the notion of pulling the flag the long way, the sneaky way. If everybody knows where the flag is at all times, the flag will get run the shortest distance all the time. Why take your chances running the flag the long way if they know where you are? How can players even get that neat (but again, unnecessary) Flag Assassination if there’s a waypoint over the carrier’s head? The waypoint over the flag carrier will ultimately just make CTF repetitive and stale because it will run the same route every single time.
>
> The timer counting down until the flag resets is great. Why did we not get this sooner?
>
> Now if you disagree, which is fine, please provide something more than “Adapt” or “You haven’t played it yet”. Some of you might even go so far as to say something like “343i have been working on this game for 3(?) years and are professionals”. Even though they have, there is no reason we can’t disagree with their decisions. Of course, this is all my opinion, and you are all entitled to yours. Whether you agree or disagree, please take some time to think for yourselves, and provide a few sentences or more to back up your opinion.

if you dont like the game then dont buy it if you have to say this stuff and you think that you wont like the game and hate it then dont buy it, it is common sense dude.

16

> if you dont like the game then dont buy it if you have to say this stuff and you think that you wont like the game and hate it then dont buy it, it is common sense dude.

Read the last paragraph of the OP.

17

Dropping the flag indeed needs to be in default CTF for the reasons you (OP) just posted. But wielding a magnum and waypoint IMO is not a big deal.

Waypoint over the flag carrier makes the game much more heated and adds much more close call moments to CTF (IMO this is great). And because everyone knows where the flag carrier is protecting the flag carrier is much more challenging.

With the waypoint on your head without a gun you would have to constantly drop it to defend yourself because like I just said the whole enemy team is coming for you (note: sprint).

It’s true that this new system eliminates all the sneaky tactics but that doesn’t bother me as flag juggling was almost everytime more better tactic than slow sneak capture in previous Halo games. But that’s just my opinion.

18

I’ve made my thoughts known on this topic in similar threads over the past 24 hours or so (here, for example), so I won’t simply reiterate everything I’ve said. But in short, this mechanic, or to be more clear, the combination of these three mechanics…

  1. Auto pickup
  2. No flag-dropping
  3. Waypoint over flag carrier

…are unwelcome additions to what has been a perfectly acceptable gametype in previous Halo titles, as far as I’m concerned. What is more worrying is the notion that the ability to drop the flag has (unofficially) been confirmed to not be possible throughout Multiplayer as a whole.

If true, this is staggering, considering the apparent fact that there are supposed to be something along the lines of “Classic” playlists available in Halo 4, which one would presume will be contained within “Multiplayer”, unless the definition of that word has been changed without our knowledge. And that is not to even mention the notion of how MLG would deal with such a situation, if it turns out to be true.

As I’ve also stated elsewhere in response to those who are attempting to justify the addition of this combination of new mechanics in the default CTF variant, by simply stating that it “promotes teamwork” and “requires more coordination”, such notions are simply not enough to justify such a drastic change.

For one, any serious CTF games in previous Halo titles between two evenly matched teams with at least a modicum of skill required a high level of coordination on the part of the team who won the game.

So coordination has always been there. What has also always been there is a DEPTH to gameplay, via the myriad of options made possible as a result of the simple ability to drop the flag, for whatever reason. These options are now gone from CTF and thus remove an element of depth, as far as I see it.

Moreover, if this simple notion of “promoting teamwork” is the absolute primary element used to justify these changes, why on earth have the developers made the primary factor in the overall scheme of this upcoming title revolve around the meta game of earning credits on an individual level to progress on an individual level through an XP-based ranking system, to unlock mechanics which will purely benefit you as an individual player?

The two notions are as contradictory as these statements:

“Halo 4 will be the most customizable Halo to date.”

“No. You can’t drop the flag in Multiplayer.”

If 343i wanted to encourage teamwork, there are many other ways in which such an aim could have been achieved, without recourse to drastically modifying what has been a perfectly acceptable and popular Objective gametype in the Halo franchise for the past 11 years.

(Okay. This post was hardly short. I tried my best to compress my thoughts, but I obviously got carried away.)

19

Not sure why 343 would completely replace CTF with a variant of Speed flag. I was under the impression that 343 stated that all of the new features they would be adding could be turned off in customs and that this will be the most customisable Halo ever and that there will be clasic playlists with classic gametypes. I can’t believe that after saying all that they would not give us the option to create a classic style gametype in customs. Has this been confirmed or is it just speculation?

I remember reading a Neogaf post from a fan who had questioned 343 employee on CTF. It was something along the lines of ‘From the way he replied I got the impression that there would not be an option to even change it in customs’ or something to that effect. That is not where all this started was it? Because potentially the fan could be mistaken and the vibe he was getting could of stubbornness not to scrap the new gametype they have worked on for so long and unwillingness to give away any info on custom options pre-empting a later reveal.

20

> > if you dont like the game then dont buy it if you have to say this stuff and you think that you wont like the game and hate it then dont buy it, it is common sense dude.
>
> Read the last paragraph of the OP.

i know but it is simple if dont like it and not going to buy then dont buy it it is simple
so dont -Yoink- about it in the forums thats what im saying and im sticking with it because 343 work very hard to make this game competitive and very entertainingly fun.