CTF Changes: Their Intentions Won't Work

So after two weeks of long hard debate, I’ve finally decided I’ll give in and get Halo 4. Eventually, because I’m kind of broke right now. Having to hear constant debates over “it isn’t so bad” and you just “hate change” and other arguments, I decided that at the very least I’ll buy it so that I can say “Yes, I have in fact experienced it. And it does suck as much as I said it would”. The other thing that finally swayed me is that Scuttlebutt has it that the campaign is actually worth it and far better than Reach’s, so I figure I owe it to myself to experience the campaign and SPARTAN OPs.

But I feel the need to both explain something and go on record about it. That thing?

The CTF changes 343i is implementing.

These are by far the worst changes 343 is making to the game; and their error is compounded by the (likely) possibility that the things they’re intending to do will in fact cause the OPPOSITE to occur besides being bad ideas in general.

How you ask? Allow me.

There are 5 main changes to CTF in Halo 4:

- Full run speed with magnum while the flag carrier
- Flag not at home to score
- Cannot drop the flag at all
- Automatic Pick-Up regardless of circumstance
- Waypoint over flag carrier’s location

Only 1 of has any precedent in Halo - auto-pickup - and even it is an outdated and discarded idea for a good reason. The only truly “Acceptable” change is running at full speed with the flag…but that is negated by all the other changes.

Why don’t these changes work?

343i’s Reasoning is Inane, Illogical and not supported by any evidence.
343i is quite dodgy on the specifics of WHY they made these changes - why they “fixed” something that wasn’t broken. But what can gather from videos and interviews is this; they wanted to “speed” the gametype up, make it more “intuitive”, keep the flag moving and "make the flag carrier more “dedicated” to their role.

The full run speed is admittedly a natural extension of the “speed up gameplay” idea. In fact this is probably the only thing the changes accomplished; but ironically, this change is contrary to the point of the gametype. Its supposed slower paced and more tactical…its not Slayer 343i. But none of the other changes seem to mesh with their goals at all.

They also claim to have been inspired by recent changes in the NBA, NFL and NHL when making the changes. I don’t pay too much attention to sports…but did any of them recently pass any rules saying Passing isn’t allowed? Is the QB not allowed throw ball anymore, he has to run it himself?

They just never explain why these changes “help” the gametype. And there seems to be little evidence supporting these changes as “beneficial”.

The changes make the gametype less intuitive, not more.
No one is going to understand why or like not being able to drop the flag. This a total departure from over a decade of gameplay, and has no in-game logic to support it. In addition this new rule goes against the general rules of the game; that you can drop/swap anything in your hands at anytime. This arbitrary new “no-flag dropping” rule makes no sense in the context of the game or its history - it literally is the only thing that rule applies to. Even the Oddball can be dropped/passed. This inconsistency is going to frustrate new and old players a like.

Auto-pickup was dropped in Halo 2 and on because it was non-intuitive, intrusive and added nothing to gameplay; it only subtracted and frustrated. It has a greater problem-causing potential than anything else. Easy examples? Accidently backing over the flag. Teammate dies near you and gives you a flag you don’t want. Flag suddenly blocks the most efficient/effective route to something. It just makes no sense. If pressing a button to pick up a flag is too un-intuitive, then Forerunners help us all, because the end days are upon us.

Exclusion of Flag Dropping and the Waypoint eliminates many formerly viable strategies, and precludes any new ones from being formed.

When trying to get people to be MORE creative with their strategies…limiting their options doesn’t further this goal. You’ve eliminated the stealth vs. speed choice, eliminated stealth completely with the Waypoint, eliminated the ability to pass the Flag, trick the enemy, pulling the flag to prevent a cap, eliminated the ability to use elevation tricks.

343i has reduced the options to “Escort the Carrier” and “Walk the Flag or Ride in a Vehicle”. Its really that simple…and it hasn’t really made the game “more intuitive” since all those whacky and crazy things people used to do with the flag are no longer possible…for no good reason.

It makes the flag carrier more dedicated to their role/keeps the flag moving.
No one was un-dedicated to their role as flag carrier…most people just realized that being flag carrier didn’t mean you had to stop doing your other roles too. So yeah…now the flag carrier is going to more dedicated to his/her role.

But no one is going to want to do it because it comes with such massive disadvantages. No one with a lick of sense is going to want to touch the flag, because who would want to. Not people with power weapons. Not people who want to keep living. Not drivers of vehicles. Not people on score streaks. Not lone wolves, because they won’t have help; and not team players, because they won’t want to be a man down on the escort. People who are bad with the Magnum won’t want to because they won’t be effective at the job.

Ironically…the flags will move less because people will be so unwilling to touch them, and the limited options FOR moving the flags means that in many games the flags will only move when there is the perfect storm allowing for a capture on that pull.

343i has essentially killed defense as a viable strategy.
No one likes to admit this…but “Flag at Home” to score is one of the core fundamental rules of CTF. Every single with CTF includes this as a rule - and if it doesn’t the players change it to include this rule.

Because without “Flag at Home” for scoring…defense has no meaning in CTF. The game is simply “grab the flag 3 times and score as fast as possible” because the status of your flag doesn’t matter. Returning your stolen flag loses much of its meaning when you don’t need it to score. Flag “defense” will essentially mean killing the enemy flag carrier a couple times so you can get the score before them.

Not to mention that flag defense/returning were some of the most intense and fun moments of CTF; now it means that much less and is that much less rewarding. “All Offense, All the Time” will be the best strategy in Halo 4.

Its trying to appeal to a crowd that doesn’t exist.
I guess the bottom line is this; who were these changes made for? They seem to have been made for some non-existent mystery audience only 343i believes in. CTF was essentially perfect; the debates were over flag juggling (solved by making the announcer less annoying and the flag less floaty) and times for return/run speed. Not “Flag at Home” to score or “Auto-pickup”. (Did anyone even once seriously suggest that would be a good idea for Halo 3 or Reach?)

You know 343i…sometimes things haven’t changed because they’ve reach their pinnacle and only need polish since there is no where else to go, not because they’ve stagnated or died.

Who left the gate open?

I think the worst change 343i is making is the implementation of join-in-progress. I’m a bit nervous about CTF changes, but I mostly play slayer, so it probably won’t deter me from MM at all.

The game is gold. These changes are in the game to stay.

You don’t have to get the game, but you also don’t have to whine about it.

There are many many gametypes in Halo, if you’re contemplating not buying the game because of ONE then you confuse me.

I thought quickscopers in CoD were bad.

SMH its funny how you think 343i’s decisions are “illogical” when they have been testing and fine tuning the settings for a while and you havent even played it!!!

Also, most people wont bother reading your wall of nonsense

> SMH its funny how you think 343i’s decisions are “illogical” when they have been testing and fine tuning the settings for a while and you havent even played it!!!

You don’t need to play the game to know how having a waypoint over the carriers head or not being able to drop the flag will work.

> SMH its funny how you think 343i’s decisions are “illogical” when they have been testing and fine tuning the settings for a while and you havent even played it!!!

Bungie also had 6 months to test Armor Lock. Contrary to popular belief, developers can do wrong.

I disagree with all of this. CTF is now less boring, it won’t be a slayer game like the last few games. Auto pick up, please tell me how this a a bad thing? What, you think you might accidently pick it up? Get real. Not being able to drop the flag is not a better change but it isn’t a deal breaking change either because you have a pistol to kill so saying your defenceless is untrue. You walk at full speed which is also a +. People like complaining and my exprience playing H3 and Reach CTF just wasn’t that good like CE was to me. I think CTF needed a change and it got one. Soo if you don’t like it I got 2 words for you…“Don’t play”.

> There are many many gametypes in Halo, if you’re contemplating not buying the game because of ONE then you confuse me.
>
> I thought quickscopers in CoD were bad.

Because the others suck?

Objective gametypes are the only gametypes in ANY game I find worth playing, and since my favorite gametype in Halo was ruined, thats a pretty big problem for me. I’m usually forced to play Slayer/TDM only because so few people play Objective gametypes now.

And it wasn’t the only reason…I wasn’t getting the game at all, but constant pestering, the realization that its basically the only shooter coming out for a long time worth getting, and hearing that the campaign was actually pretty good convinced me that if I was going to have to complain, I might as well complain from personal experience.

You bring up a LOT of good points. I haven’t played the new Halo 4 yet, but I am willing to try the CTFVbefore I make my statement on why it doesn’t work well or why it does. Non the less it’s about time someone actually though of what they were going to write and not just yoinking! Cry.thank you sir/madam for a constructive post.

Wall of Text hits you for 120 HP.

I’m not reading yet another CTF whining thread. You haven’t even played the game, won’t even give it a chance, and even if you DO give it a chance you’re going into the game with a negative, close minded attitude.

What do you think is going to happen? You’re going to play it with a grumpy attitude, and even if it is good you’ll drop it and be all like “This sucks!” Then you’ll jump on the forum and complain. If 343i makes some changes to CTF after launch, you’ll think it’s all because of your complaining, so you’ll start complaining about every other aspect of the game thinking you’ll change that too.

But before all that, you’ll respond to this thread claiming you DO have an open mind, but you’re a ‘true’ Halo fan, and this just won’t work for you.

They made it faster paced and easier to score because CTF was incredibly boring unless you had a good party to play with. I have played so many CTF games where no one scored. Now I have a better chance of doing it myself so I can win the game. When both teams have the other teams flag at their base the game comes to a standstill with both teams protecting their flag and then you’re just stuck there the rest of the game. Barely anyone voted for CTF cause it was so boring.

> There are many many gametypes in Halo, if you’re contemplating not buying the game because of ONE then you confuse me.
>
> I thought quickscopers in CoD were bad.

Really? You’re surprised that one of the most beloved Halo game types got a controversial makeover and people are pushing back?

Really?!

Good post OP. I agree entirely with your points.

I’m mainly bewildered as to why they didn’t think to include the ability to tweak the changes in custom games. It seems like a pretty basic thing.

> I’m not reading yet another CTF whining thread.

Then why come into the thread when the title itself gives away the fact that it is regarding CTF, and obviously representing a negative view on the changes?

Interesting points but I will need to personally play it numerous times prior to providing positive or negative feedback. I believe they mentioned an emphasis on a different kind of team effort since the carrier position will be “SEEN” at all times and the carrier can defend himself better. The rush for the flag will need to be more organized and with the new “points” system you will be rewarded for those efforts while escorting your teammate back to base.

> I’m not reading yet another CTF whining thread. You haven’t even played the game, won’t even give it a chance, and even if you DO give it a chance you’re going into the game with a negative, close minded attitude.

Couldn’t the same be said about people who enjoy the new gametype? But hang on, they’re not whining, and only whining is bad!

Seriously, this isn’t whining, this is a user providing valid points on a gametype which has gone gold and has not changed since we’ve first seen it. Simply stating: “You haven’t even played it” holds no substance, because you haven’t even refuted any of his points, let alone bothered to have read the thread. Instead you make some argument that goes off on a tangent due to predisposing bias; a bit hypocritical, no?

> > SMH its funny how you think 343i’s decisions are “illogical” when they have been testing and fine tuning the settings for a while and you havent even played it!!!
>
> You don’t need to play the game to know how having a waypoint over the carriers head or not being able to drop the flag will work.

Using your logic, you can just look at pasta and assume it tastes horrible? You cant just assume that it wont work, you have to experience it YOURSELF and form an unbiased opinion. Until you have taken the time to play 15-20 matches of it, your opinion is irrelevant.

> > I’m not reading yet another CTF whining thread. You haven’t even played the game, won’t even give it a chance, and even if you DO give it a chance you’re going into the game with a negative, close minded attitude.
>
> Couldn’t the same be said about people who enjoy the new gametype? But hang on, they’re not whining, and only whining is bad!
>
> Seriously, this isn’t whining, this is a user providing valid points on a gametype which has gone gold and has not changed since we’ve first seen it. Simply stating: “You haven’t even played it” holds no substance, because you haven’t even refuted any of his points, let alone bothered to have read the thread. Instead you make some argument that goes off on a tangent due to predisposing bias; a bit hypocritical, no?

Saying the changes are not going to work holds no substance. Until we have played multiple matches of this new CTF, no one can say the changes are for better or for worse. Im not saying its gonna work because I have not tried it yet.

Someone can look at it and say its gonna work, someone else can look at it and say its not. Either way its based on assumptions and not fact.

First of all, I would like to mention that I do appreciate how you presented your case in an ordered and coherent manner, unlike others who might just ramble on in one big paragraph with explanation points and caps lock. I can see how some of these things could negatively impact the game as well, especially the score point not being at home, the waypoint, and not being able to drop the flag. These things won’t deter me from playing CTF, but it’s clear how others could be put off.

Passing the flag or dropping it to gain speed were valid strategies and were only annoying when the announcer wouldn’t stop announcing. Automatic pickup could cause some issues in combination with not being able to drop the flag, certainly, though players might just have to be a bit more careful around the flag. If you don’t want it, stay clear of it. That might be an issue if it’s blocking your path, but being flexible enough to just go somewhere else would then be important. Full run speed and having a magnum will make the experience more bearable, thankfully.

A waypoint? Yeah, that could be a problem. Stealth is pretty much impossible when everyone knows where you are. It will certainly make the job of the defending team easier, which is a plus. For the defending team.

I hadn’t heard actually heard about the score point not being at home anymore. Perhaps I wasn’t paying enough attention when watching the Multiplayer BTS. The point of that is really unclear to me. The other changes I can slightly understand, but moving the score point away from spawn seems unnecessary.

I’m actually looking forward to these changes in a way, just to see how it will affect CTF games. Maybe it won’t be as negative as you think. It will probably still be worse in your opinion, but hopefully not to the extent you have explained. Getting rid of those strategies won’t be an issue for me since I, ahem, am not very strategic in the first place.

I hope you can still find enough enjoyment in the game and perhaps adjust to the changes being made. Many of them are unnecessary and could make the gametype worse, I agree, but I try to be positive and hope that they will simply change the game and foster new strategies instead of outright ruining Halo CTF.