Criticisms of the Rulebook

Games Other Halo
1

To my knowledge, it is not against the rules to criticize the rules themselves. if it is however, I will willingly (and disappointingly) delete this thread without any opposition.

A forum is a place for intellectual discussion. But intellectual discussion can not exist under censorship.

However, I would like to start off on a positive note. I don’t entirely disagree with the rules. Debates can happen without the need to flame your opponent. Threads that have no constructive value whatsoever should be deleted. Posts that are just copies of other recent posts are not needed. The rules do help to promote more clean and courteous discussion.

But, my gripes with the rules still remain.

1. The NoBump-NoRepost conundrum.

First, I’d like to define what non-constructive bumping is to me. To me, it is bumping a thread tons of times in a row despite obviously not being interesting material. It is bumping a thread that is weeks, months or years old where no possible good can come of it. I think we can all agree on this.

It is not, however, bumping a thread that is only a few hours to even a day or two old. That is perfectly normal behavior. In fact, it’s common on many other forums. Threads often get buried in more popular threads, sometimes a bump is justified to get more obscure discussion going. Not to mention people have work and other activities during the day, and don’t always have time to immediately reply to a thread.

Nonetheless, I would be fine with that rule, if it weren’t for the fact you can also not re-create threads within a similar timespan.

The combination of these two rules is basically saying “If your thread wasn’t successful the first time, don’t bother.” I don’t see how any good comes of this rule. If anything bumping should be encouraged, as it prevents threads from being re-created over and over.

2. The Alternate Account Rule

You ban someone, and you don’t want them coming back. To me, that’s fair. The moderation in general tends to be fair.

The issue is, the banned person can not post anywhere, can not reply to the people who banned them, can not even view their own inbox to see why they were banned.

Alternate Accounts would not be necessary if a proper appeal system, or at the very least the ability to discuss the matter with your prosecutor, existed to begin with.

It is again, unfair, to ban people without giving them any indication of what they did wrong until they are unbanned (in the case of a permanent ban it is even more unfair, since they will NEVER know what it was that caused them to be banned).

3. The Discussion of the M-Word.

The below is in spoilers to be easily identified in case of the need to omit it. But please don’t just instantly discard this section. Will you listen to reason? Can 343I be convinced to be more open minded on this matter?

If there are more appropriate methods of advocating change in this matter, such as writing emails, do tell as well.

Click at your own risk yadda yadda you know the drill.

This is where the silly names end. What I am here to talk about, is Modded Content. Or more specifically, the inability to discuss modded content.

343I and Microsoft should strive to strengthen their relationship with the community. Modified content should not be confused with hacking. A Flood Gamemode with tweaked player aspects is a lot different from someone using aimbots online. The former is used to give everyone an enjoyable experience, the latter is for someone’s own personal gain.

Many players enjoy modified content. I’m sure some of the moderators of this very forum have even played some modified maps or gametypes at some point in their gaming history.

Modified content harms no one. The only thing it does is bring joy to people and bring communities closer together. The repression of not only the content itself but also the very discussion of modified content, is quite frankly unneeded and cruel.

When you ban the discussion of content, you are harming yourselves, and you are harming the community. No one is winning from this scenario. There is no reason to crack down so hard on something that does little to no harm to begin with.

That is all I have to say for now.

2

Thanks for your thoughts, Ramir3z77. The rules change and evolve as needed (in fact, they were updated over the weekend), so discussion like this is always appreciated. I’ll address your points below. Let me know what you think at your leisure.

> 1. The NoBump-NoRepost conundrum.
>
> First, I’d like to define what non-constructive bumping is to me. To me, it is bumping a thread tons of times in a row despite obviously not being interesting material. It is bumping a thread that is weeks, months or years old where no possible good can come of it. I think we can all agree on this.
>
> It is not, however, bumping a thread that is only a few hours to even a day or two old. That is perfectly normal behavior. In fact, it’s common on many other forums. Threads often get buried in more popular threads, sometimes a bump is justified to get more obscure discussion going. Not to mention people have work and other activities during the day, and don’t always have time to immediately reply to a thread.
>
> Nonetheless, I would be fine with that rule, if it weren’t for the fact you can also not re-create threads within a similar timespan.
>
> The combination of these two rules is basically saying “If your thread wasn’t successful the first time, don’t bother.” I don’t see how any good comes of this rule. If anything bumping should be encouraged, as it prevents threads from being re-created over and over.

The bumps that tend to get moderated on our forums are ones that don’t contribute to the conversation. Examples of that are the single word responses, such as “Bump,” “Anyone?”, etc. I think we’re a bit more lenient with posts that expand upon the OP.

> 2. The Alternate Account Rule
>
> You ban someone, and you don’t want them coming back. To me, that’s fair. The moderation in general tends to be fair.
>
> The issue is, the banned person can not post anywhere, can not reply to the people who banned them, can not even view their own inbox to see why they were banned.
>
> Alternate Accounts would not be necessary if a proper appeal system, or at the very least the ability to discuss the matter with your prosecutor, existed to begin with.
>
> It is again, unfair, to ban people without giving them any indication of what they did wrong until they are unbanned (in the case of a permanent ban it is even more unfair, since they will NEVER know what it was that caused them to be banned).

We actually have an appeal process but it’s rather new (was implemented a few months ago, per feedback and requests similar to your own), so it’s understandable that not everybody is familiar with it. You can see the specifics here, and I’ll post them below in a spoiler for convenience.

Is there any way for me to appeal my ban?

You are allowed to appeal your ban if the ban length is 7 days or longer. You should email your appeal to community@halowaypoint.com and include “Forum Ban Appeal – {Your Gamertag}” in the title. This does not guarantee that your ban will be overturned, but it will be investigated and you will receive a response. If your ban is not at least 7 days in length and you write in requesting an investigation, your original ban will be extended to 7 days.

> 3. The Discussion of the M-Word.
>
> The below is in spoilers to be easily identified in case of the need to omit it. But please don’t just instantly discard this section. Will you listen to reason? Can 343I be convinced to be more open minded on this matter?
>
> If there are more appropriate methods of advocating change in this matter, such as writing emails, do tell as well.
>
> Click at your own risk yadda yadda you know the drill.
>
>
>
> This is where the silly names end. What I am here to talk about, is Modded Content. Or more specifically, the inability to discuss modded content.
>
> 343I and Microsoft should strive to strengthen their relationship with the community. Modified content should not be confused with hacking. A Flood Gamemode with tweaked player aspects is a lot different from someone using aimbots online. The former is used to give everyone an enjoyable experience, the latter is for someone’s own personal gain.
>
> Many players enjoy modified content. I’m sure some of the moderators of this very forum have even played some modified maps or gametypes at some point in their gaming history.
>
> Modified content harms no one. The only thing it does is bring joy to people and bring communities closer together. The repression of not only the content itself but also the very discussion of modified content, is quite frankly unneeded and cruel.
>
> When you ban the discussion of content, you are harming yourselves, and you are harming the community. No one is winning from this scenario. There is no reason to crack down so hard on something that does little to no harm to begin with.
>

As we are directly affiliated with Xbox, this is a slippery and blurry slope. Xbox is quite clear with their modding boundaries, and we, as part of Xbox, have the same obligations. To attempt to clarify the largely gray area, discussion about the overall topic (Is it sometimes good? Is it always bad?) would be fine on our forums. Discussing specifics, however, and linking to modded content, whether it be a file, video or image, is not allowed. We absolutely understand not all modding is bad but we are governed by the Xbox ToS and rules.

Hope all of that makes sense. :slight_smile:

3

I’ve just read the rules in their updated format and one thing caught my eye.

> Please do not have a large percentage of your posts that are only negative rants against anything Halo, Xbox, or the forums. This is a form of trolling that only inflames the community and incites more flaming and abusive posts.

Forgive me if I misunderstand this, but it sounds like if people want to come here to rant and that’s primarily what some people do, they essentially can’t do that now? I know many who come here every one in a blue moon to complain about something which is being considered or has been added to Halo 4 and it would be silly in my eyes to warn or even ban people for it :confused:

Once again, forgive me if I am misunderstanding or misinterpreting, it just confused me as all.

4

The thing about the appeal process is the description of how to go about an appeal is on the forum itself.

If someone had not read it prior to being banned, they would not know what to do.

As for modding, surely 343I has some pull with xbox? Of course this is irrelevant to the topic at hand, I am just advocating action, or at least wondering if the discussion of it has ever occurred.

Thank you for responding.

5

> 1. The NoBump-NoRepost conundrum.

No Bumping is very situational and based on moderator’s best judgment and common sense. It can be anything from a one word post that was posted within minutes of the first post, or 2 years after and have very little to add, in a thread that’s already over with. Posting in very old threads that is very heated, ends to be a bad thing, and be treated as “Bumping”. As for No Repost, if a Moderator edits the post, don’t repost it before talking to the moderator, and seeing why said post was edited.

> 2. The Alternate Account Rule

Tho the reasons you give are valid reasons why some people create alternate accounts, but they aren’t the only reasons, some create alternate accounts just to get back on the forums, and continue posting flames, spam, and more crap, some create alternate accounts just to “get back” at the moderators, by which I mean post a thread commenting on everything they did under the sun in a negative tone, and act like Moderators do nothing but censor the forum members, and ban people because they said bad things about 343i.

> 3. The Discussion of the M-Word.

As BS Angel has stated, this is a slippery and blurry slop, but as far as I understand, all Xbox based Modding is not per the rules, but you can discuss Halo PC Modding, and from what I understand most of the moderators are okay with this, but I’m not sure about the forum admins and 343i/microsoft themselves.

But as far as the general community goes, most people see the word “Mods” they think of these evil modifications created by cheaters, and tho this is correct sometimes, it’s not the general idea behind mods.
Some might understand that it’s not the tool people should hate, it’s how it’s used.

6

> I’ve just read the rules in their updated format and one thing caught my eye.
>
>
>
> > Please do not have a large percentage of your posts that are only negative rants against anything Halo, Xbox, or the forums. This is a form of trolling that only inflames the community and incites more flaming and abusive posts.
>
> Forgive me if I misunderstand this, but it sounds like if people want to come here to rant and that’s primarily what some people do, they essentially can’t do that now? I know many who come here every one in a blue moon to complain about something which is being considered or has been added to Halo 4 and it would be silly in my eyes to warn or even ban people for it :confused:
>
> Once again, forgive me if I am misunderstanding or misinterpreting, it just confused me as all.

This is an expansion upon non-constructive posts, which were already not allowed in the original set of rules. So basically, nothing is changing, it’s just described a bit more in-depth.

7

> The thing about the appeal process is the description of how to go about an appeal is on the forum itself.

All sections of the forum are viewable when logged out. If you have recommendations about anywhere else you feel that particular FAQ should be posted, definitely let me know.

8

> > The thing about the appeal process is the description of how to go about an appeal is on the forum itself.
>
> All sections of the forum are viewable when logged out. If you have recommendations about anywhere else you feel that particular FAQ should be posted, definitely let me know.

Maybe a page where you can read your inbox/reason for ban, and a simple FAQ that crop up from people who are banned. For now the “Ban” page says “You’re banned until XX,XX,XXXX”, also the email system hasn’t been working all that much, but back when it did work, when ever I got an email saying I have an unread PM in my Inbox, it just said the subject, who it’s from, and a link to my inbox. Not:

> You have just been sent a personal message by {Null} on This Spartan Life.
>
> IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.
>
> The message they sent you was:
>
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
>
> Reply to this Personal Message here: {Null}

I don’t know about anyone else, but I find it more aggravating to get an email saying:

> A new Private Message from Forum Team about You have been temporarily banned for {Null}. was send to you at Halo Waypoint.
>
> To read the message, open the following link in your browser:
>
> {Null}

And being unable to see said message because, well being banned.

I don’t plan on ever getting banned again, but I do believe it’d lessen the aggravation of a ban if there was a way to just read the moderator’s message, and maybe a simple heads up on some things that can and can’t be done.

*Both quoted emails are copy, paste, and edits of actual PM Emails I have in my inbox, I’m a bit of a pack rat when it comes to keeping Emails. Not trying to cause trouble, not trying to call out, just trying to use actual emails as examples.