Criticism - The Fine Line

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

So, here we have it, 343’s largest Content Update (in my opinion) is just around the corner and it’s loaded with goodies. I just wanted to take this opportunity to point out something that I think is more relevant now than ever.

Criticism.

For many, Halo 5 has been exactly what they wanted, a blend of classic gameplay, intertwined with a plethora of modern videogame conventions, finely polished to near magnificence.

Then we have the opposite side of the fence, a passionate company of grizzled veterans that have invested a significant amount of time learning the weapon and pickup spawns on each and every map, and can still recite the demented whale-song of dial-up internet.

Lastly, I should also mention that there are plenty (myself included) that fall neither left or right of this division of ideals. We tend to like aspects of both the old and the new Halo, but we would still like to see many changes.

So what about criticism?

Well, there will always be diffences of opinion, it’s just the nature of individuality. Those differences of opinion can create some of the most interesting dialogue a community will ever witness, however, as with all things it’s all a matter of execution.

We have all seen the occasional thread that inevitably takes an opinion a little too far without any constructive reason, resulting in a conversation that quickly devolves into an incoherent mess. Conversely, there always seems to be a few that feel the need to reject criticism at every turn, adamant that Halo 5 is perfect (which nothing is).

So now we have a Content Update with a significant amount of requested features and items, which just goes to show that if we all tread the fine line and employ constructive criticism, we are able to communicate effectively with 343, and work towards the game that the majority of us want to play.

To this end, I just want to take this opportunity to thank 343 for continuing to support Halo 5 and the community. But don’t forget to thank yourselves, for our criticism has clearly shaped the experience, both prior and post launch.

PS: Can we get a no aim-assist Slayer gametype please? Or even aim-assist options for Custom Games?
s7ench pls (you asked for it Brian :wink:).

2

> 2533274810001991;1:
> So, here we have it, 343’s largest Content Update (in my opinion) is just around the corner and it’s loaded with goodies. I just wanted to take this opportunity to point out something that I think is more relevant now than ever.
>
> Criticism.
>
> For many, Halo 5 has been exactly what they wanted, a blend of classic gameplay, intertwined with a plethora of modern videogame conventions, finely polished to near magnificence.
>
> Then we have the opposite side of the fence, a passionate company of grizzled veterans that have invested a significant amount of time learning the weapon and pickup spawns on each and every map, and can still recite the demented whale-song of dial-up internet.
>
> Lastly, I should also mention that there are plenty (myself included) that fall neither left or right of this division of ideals. We tend to like aspects of both the old and the new Halo, but we would still like to see many changes.
>
> So what about criticism?
>
> Well, there will always be diffences of opinion, it’s just the nature of individuality. Those differences of opinion can create some of the most interesting dialogue a community will ever witness, however, as with all things it’s all a matter of execution.
>
> We have all seen the occasional thread that inevitably takes an opinion a little too far without any constructive reason, resulting in a conversation that quickly devolves into an incoherent mess. Conversely, there always seems to be a few that feel the need to reject criticism at every turn, adamant that Halo 5 is perfect (which nothing is).
>
> So now we have a Content Update with a significant amount of requested features and items, which just goes to show that if we all tread the fine line and employ constructive criticism, we are able to communicate effectively with 343, and work towards the game that the majority of us want to play.
>
> To this end, I just want to take this opportunity to thank 343 for continuing to support Halo 5 and the community. But don’t forget to thank yourselves, for our criticism has clearly shaped the experience, both prior and post launch.
>
> PS: Can we get a no aim-assist Slayer gametype please? Or even aim-assist options for Custom Games?
> s7ench pls (you asked for it Brian :wink:).

I think 343 have done an amazing job with h5, and this new content drop has me really excited, but there are things that need fixing, and we will find out what is actually being fixed tomorrow, on the subject of criticism, it is healthy and can help a game grow/be better, but it has to be constructive, don’t just go “its all -Yoink-, 343 get your act together” as, 1, people may like the new abilities (my self included ) and prefer this style of halo and the old “grizzled veterans” as you called them may be a vocal minority, and 2, suggest fixes that everyone can agree on. Any way, a nice mature post for once with some good points, and I totally agree

3

Greensull does criticism right. He can say what he doesn’t like / needs to be done better (H5’s Campaign, classic playlists, New Breakout is bad, Spartan Charge is irritating, etc) but without lowering himself to flinging immature insults and shouting at other people who may disagree.

That’s what we need to be keep in mind: You CAN voice your disapproval and/or give criticism without being rude. :slight_smile:

4

> 2533274850869596;3:
> That’s what we need to be keep in mind: You CAN voice your disapproval and/or give criticism without being rude. :slight_smile:

Heh, I think you nailed exactly what I wanted to say in a tenth the word count.

5

> 2533274810001991;4:
> > 2533274850869596;3:
> > That’s what we need to be keep in mind: You CAN voice your disapproval and/or give criticism without being rude. :slight_smile:
>
> Heh, I think you nailed exactly what I wanted to say in a tenth the word count.

but you went into more detail

6

> 2533274965187692;5:
> > 2533274810001991;4:
> > > 2533274850869596;3:
> > > That’s what we need to be keep in mind: You CAN voice your disapproval and/or give criticism without being rude. :slight_smile:
> >
> > Heh, I think you nailed exactly what I wanted to say in a tenth the word count.
>
> but you went into more detail

True, I guess the point I really want to convey (even more than keeping criticism constructive) is that we should criticise things we don’t agree with. Just look at the content of the upcoming Content Update.

There are groups of people out there that want the criticism to stop, but we can all see that we are getting what we want, and in turn, 343 are likely to profit from it. It’s a win/win situation, all it requires is a little cooperation, ie: constructive criticism.

7

a no aim-assist game type would be trash.

8

Constructive criticism is something the halo community, and most video game communities, struggle with constantly. Of course there are exceptions- there are many fine Halo fans that can give good feedback. But for every one person that can give good feedback in a useful manner, there are ten people loudly screaming jibberish. The fact that the people that scream jibberish tend to get more replies/community attention makes it feel unrewarding to provide constructive feedback.

> 2533274810001991;9:
> acclimatising

I’m in love with this word lol

9

> 2533274925370623;7:
> a no aim-assist game type would be trash.

Woah there buddy, that’s an *opinion.*Some of the most fun I have had in a Halo game was in a Modded gametype in Halo 4, where we had to take time to aim.

Most of the gunfights quickly devolved into frantic exchanges of missed shots and panicking, but the people that practiced were consistently better at placing shots than those who were acclimatising.

Sure, it’s not the gametype for everyone, but neither is Halo in general.

If you ask me, aim-assist is trash, but I don’t try to ram that opinion down anyone’s throat.

10

> 2533274803493024;8:
> The fact that the people that scream jibberish tend to get more replies/community attention makes it feel unrewarding to provide constructive feedback.

This is a particularly interesting observation, and I can’t help but feel that it is true.

Perhaps a facet of that problem is that the most negative members tend to band together and get recognition based on the sheer weight of their posts.

11

> 2533274810001991;9:
> > 2533274925370623;7:
> > a no aim-assist game type would be trash.
>
> Woah there buddy, that’s an *opinion.*Some of the most fun I have had in a Halo game was in a Modded gametype in Halo 4, where we had to take time to aim.
>
> Most of the gunfights quickly devolved into frantic exchanges of missed shots and panicking, but the people that practiced were consistently better at placing shots than those who were acclimatising.
>
> Sure, it’s not the gametype for everyone, but neither is Halo in general.
>
> If you ask me, aim-assist is trash, but I don’t try to ram that opinion down anyone’s throat.

i know it’s an opinion.

12

> 2533274925370623;11:
> > 2533274810001991;9:
> > > 2533274925370623;7:
> > > a no aim-assist game type would be trash.
> >
> > Woah there buddy, that’s an *opinion.*Some of the most fun I have had in a Halo game was in a Modded gametype in Halo 4, where we had to take time to aim.
> >
> > Most of the gunfights quickly devolved into frantic exchanges of missed shots and panicking, but the people that practiced were consistently better at placing shots than those who were acclimatising.
> >
> > Sure, it’s not the gametype for everyone, but neither is Halo in general.
> >
> > If you ask me, aim-assist is trash, but I don’t try to ram that opinion down anyone’s throat.
>
> i know it’s an opinion.

Well the point that I was really trying to get across, hence leaving it as the closing sentence, was that I wasn’t trying to tell people that my opinion is worth more or less than theirs.

13

> 2533274803493024;8:
> Constructive criticism is something the halo community, and most video game communities, struggle with constantly. Of course there are exceptions- there are many fine Halo fans that can give good feedback. But for every one person that can give good feedback in a useful manner, there are ten people loudly screaming jibberish. The fact that the people that scream jibberish tend to get more replies/community attention makes it feel unrewarding to provide constructive feedback.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274810001991;9:
> > acclimatising
>
> I’m in love with this word lol

Meet me at my place, I’ll bring wine and a dictionary.

14

> 2533274810001991;13:
> > 2533274803493024;8:
> > Constructive criticism is something the halo community, and most video game communities, struggle with constantly. Of course there are exceptions- there are many fine Halo fans that can give good feedback. But for every one person that can give good feedback in a useful manner, there are ten people loudly screaming jibberish. The fact that the people that scream jibberish tend to get more replies/community attention makes it feel unrewarding to provide constructive feedback.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274810001991;9:
> > > acclimatising
> >
> > I’m in love with this word lol
>
> Meet me at my place, I’ll bring wine and a dictionary.

I’ll bring my Xbox one and a TV.

15

> 2533274803493024;14:
> > 2533274810001991;13:
> > > 2533274803493024;8:
> > > …
> >
> > Meet me at my place, I’ll bring wine and a dictionary.
>
> I’ll bring my Xbox one and a TV.

There’s always room for another Xbox One in my house (I have two), now you’ve just got to catch a plane over.

Oh that’s scary, you’re only a year older than me…

Ok, I’ll try to stay on topic now…

16

> 2533274810001991;1:
> So, here we have it, 343’s largest Content Update (in my opinion)

Why opinion? It either has the most content or it doesn’t.

> 2662619243979948;1:
> For many, Halo 5 has been exactly what they wanted, a blend of classic gameplay, intertwined with a plethora of modern videogame conventions, finely polished to near magnificence.

Now this is definitely an opinion. There is no getting around the, “For many…” statement is unquantifiable.

> 2662619243979948;1:
> Then we have the opposite side of the fence, a passionate company of grizzled veterans that have invested a significant amount of time learning the weapon and pickup spawns on each and every map, and can still recite the demented whale-song of dial-up internet.

I am not one to take things the wrong way, but it is obvious and somewhat annoying that you word this the way you do. Basically, the implication being all passionate veterans who take the time to learn different aspects of the game are too old to be…well I don’t know what did you mean?

> 2662619243979948;1:
> Well, there will always be diffences of opinion, it’s just the nature of individuality. Those differences of opinion can create some of the most interesting dialogue a community will ever witness, however, as with all things it’s all a matter of execution.

I challenge you to look at your own execution here, because that last statement caused me to pretty much disregard any opinion you may have about constructive criticism.

> s7ench pls (you asked for it Brian :wink:

Are we trying to make this the new Barvo?

17

> Why opinion? It either has the most content or it doesn’t.

Well I was having a tough time deciding whether Cartographer’s Gift was a larger content update, due to the sheer size of Forge. Naturally, I imagined that others may come to a similar conclusion.

> Now this is definitely an opinion. There is no getting around the, “For many…” statement is unquantifiable.

I don’t see how it is… I know many people myself who share this opinion, and have witnessed many more here on Waypoint. How long is a piece of string?

> I am not one to take things the wrong way, but it is obvious and somewhat annoying that you word this the way you do. Basically, the implication being all passionate veterans who take the time to learn different aspects of the game are too old to be…well I don’t know what did you mean?

I am merely referring to others around my age, that have played Halo from the beginning. I often joke that I am old and slowly falling apart (I’m 25).

Also, unless I totally butchered it, I’m pretty sure it’s what Joseph Staten used to call the “old guard” of Bungie, back in the Halo 3 days.

> I challenge you to look at your own execution here, because that last statement caused me to pretty much disregard any opinion you may have about constructive criticism.

Feel free to elaborate, maybe it’s just the fact that I’m still on night shift, but I’m not sure what you are alluding to.

> Are we trying to make this the new Barvo?

I was not aware that we shared an agenda.

18

> 2533274810001991;10:
> > 2533274803493024;8:
> > The fact that the people that scream jibberish tend to get more replies/community attention makes it feel unrewarding to provide constructive feedback.
>
> This is a particularly interesting observation, and I can’t help but feel that it is true.
>
> Perhaps a facet of that problem is that the most negative members tend to band together and get recognition based on the sheer weight of their posts.

The rule of mob is a terrible thing.

I enjoyed your post OP. Criticism is needed to point out areas for improvement, and there is always room for improvement.

19

> 2533274961306591;18:
> > 2533274810001991;10:
> > > 2533274803493024;8:
> > > …
> >
> > …
>
> The rule of mob is a terrible thing.
>
> I enjoyed your post OP. Criticism is needed to point out areas for improvement, and there is always room for improvement.

I cannot agree more, and unfortunately, I often apply this to my own work (which I am never happy with).

20

> 2533274810001991;10:
> > 2533274803493024;8:
> > The fact that the people that scream jibberish tend to get more replies/community attention makes it feel unrewarding to provide constructive feedback.
>
> This is a particularly interesting observation, and I can’t help but feel that it is true.
>
> Perhaps a facet of that problem is that the most negative members tend to band together and get recognition based on the sheer weight of their posts.

I’d say that at least in part it’s more a matter of simplicity. It’s a lot easier to feel (often incorrectly) that your ideas or beliefs are represented by a slogan or a simple thing. Think about the success of some of the simple (if completely) absurd terms that get used on this forum and others like it. How often do you see conflation of Halo 1-3 (sometimes even including reach) when they were vastly different games? It’s a lot easier to comprehend and quickly respond to a simple idea, than it is to take the time to actually read and analyze posts and the ideas behind them.

There are also heavy elements of in-group, out group bias that play a role in all of our analysis of ideas, often without us understanding it. Whether we intend to or not we lock ourselves into groups (Pro-sprint vs. Anti-sprint, Bungie vs. 343) and it’s easy to get swept up into these roles. It’s easy to think, “I’m supposed to disagree with person X because he’s ultra competitive and I’m a casual.” It’s much easier to dismiss than it is to take the time to read it, try to understand the perspective behind it, and analyze it fairly in spite of our inherent biases. It’s something we’re all guilty of in our weaker moments. And since we decide to take the easy route it’s a lot easier to use a short buzzword or an incoherent, emotional outburst than it is to provide proper criticism and debate even if that hurts our shared goals of the forum (community and improving Halo.)