Core T2 vehicles are underused. Could this be why?

The Problem: Warthogs and Marauders might not be underpowered after all. But we are aware that they are underused and pretty expensive for what you get in return. Why is that?

Let’s talk counter units and upgraded turrets. I’ve reached the conclusion that Infantry is effective at all stages of the game due to anti-infantry (Excluding SOFT counters) being sort of forgiving or manageable with enough micro skill.

Let’s see some examples: Hunters and Cyclops destroy vehicles easily, couple of shots do the job. Wolverines and Reavers destroy air fairly easily. Flamers and Ranges kill infantry a bit slower than other counter units do.

But snipers and suicide grunts can kill infantry super fast! you might say, yeah well those two units have their own disadvantages: Suicide Grunts kill themselves and Snipers can’t shoot anything else…

These same escenarios hold true when you inspect upgraded turrets: Anti-Infantry turrets take a while to kill a marine squad or a grunt, but anti-vehicle turrets can kill vehicles in 2 or 3 shots. Same as anti-air turrets.

So the time to kill (TTK) for counter units is very small by the exception of anti-infantry. This allows a player to mix in infantry in their army composition which is good actually for the health of the game and variety of units.

But what about anti-vehicle and anti-air? Is that fine as well? If the enemy has couple of cyclops or hunters mixed in, your vehicles will drop incredibly fast! And if they have reavers or wolves mixed, your air units will also drop quickly.

Anti-Air units are fine in my opinion, they need to destroy air this fast for the reason that air can avoid terrain and can move very fast so they can disengage with basic micro. Also support healing units are air and they need to be fragile.
Anti-Vehicle is a little too strong in my opinion, a vehicle can’t avoid terrain so only really fast moving vehicles can outrun counter units. No amount of micro can save slow moving vehicles like the Kodiak and Marauder. If we nerf anti-vehicle units then fast vehicles like scouts and warthogs would be stronger, and slower vehicles like the Marauder and Kodiak would still be in a pretty bad spot.

The Proposal: I’m not too sure how armor types in HW2 work, which ones exist etc, but we do know (from some of the Patch Notes) that different damage types exist, for example “Small arms fire”. Rangers have an armor type that reduces incoming small arms fire.

What I think would be good for the game is have a balance where the faster the vehicle is, the lighter and weaker the armor is, so Cyclops/Hunters can kill them in a couple of shots. And the slower the vehicle is the heavier and stronger the armor is, so Marauders can hold a spot in your army composition without having them be completely useless when facing a couple of Cyclops/Hunters, especially given how un-microable marauders are. Locusts and Kodiaks would be different due to being support units, so their armor must be fragile. I’m just talking about CORE vehicles.

Conclusions:

  • Anti-Infantry TTK is short but not short enough that it renders infantry useless. - Anti-Air TTK is short and it has to be due to air maneuverability. - Anti-vehicle TTK is really really short it could be brought more in line with how anti-infantry works currently with armor types.
    TLDR: Anti vehicle is way too strong in this game, vehicle armor should be proportionally inverse to its move speed to allow core vehicle viability.

I’d be good with this. Having to wait till T3 to upgrade Marauder’s armor is worthless, so buffing their armor early on would really help.

Marauders and hogs really only shine at T3 with upgrades. Even then marauders should be used with ship if that’s a unit you choose to focus on. Hogs are a lot faster, so I feel they’re okay as a small hit and run squad. Flame hogs are pretty good though, but I feel like they shine because of how aggressive Kinsano is.

Personally, I think the problem is that everyone gets to T3 ASAP. It kinda voids out using these units. I’ve always felt it’s better to sprinkle in these units for easy diversity after T2. All supply and no power, which again helps get to T3.

> 2533274847916490;3:
> Marauders and hogs really only shine at T3 with upgrades. Even then marauders should be used with ship if that’s a unit you choose to focus on. Hogs are a lot faster, so I feel they’re okay as a small hit and run squad. Flame hogs are pretty good though, but I feel like they shine because of how aggressive Kinsano is.
>
> Personally, I think the problem is that everyone gets to T3 ASAP. It kinda voids out using these units. I’ve always felt it’s better to sprinkle in these units for easy diversity after T2. All supply and no power, which again helps get to T3.

I’ve spent games 100% on Tech 2 and never build one. I don’t buy the reason people don’t build core t2 vehicles is due to phasing up to t3.

But we do agree they are underused currently, their upgrades being T3 might actually be a very good point that I had not considered before.

I mean even building off of why they’re underused it could be that they’re not very specialized. Air? Use anti-air, Vehicles? Use anti-vehicles, etc. Granted they’re good against infantry, but rangers/snipers do a better job. Plus, most the time infantry at T2+ is hunters and cyclops, which hard counter those hogs/marauders. Honestly, it could be that they’re so rounded that it holds them back.

For now Locust is the defacto core vehicle for banished.

> 2533274807340992;6:
> For now Locust is the defacto core vehicle for banished.

Yes, this is true. However nerfing them is not guaranteed to bring marauders into play in the slightest I think. Look at UNSC, they basically have 0 viable vehicles.