Core Objective Gametypes Missing in Halo 5

Until Halo 4, the core objective variants within Halo were capture the flag, assault, king of the hill, oddball, and territories, with variants like single flag, neutral bomb, etc. With Halo 4, 343 decided to eliminate bomb games in favor of games like ricochet… and while ricochet would’ve been a fine addition to the stable of Halo objective games, it certainly wasn’t a sufficient replacement for bomb… because, quite frankly, there is no sufficient replacement for bomb, bomb is a core game type… I was disappointed to see the limited offerings for objective within the launch playlists as announced for Halo 5, but I was hopeful that you folks were simply getting things up and running and would then expand to the proper slate. Thus, you can understand when I was horrified by your release of the achievements, only to see no mention of bomb, king of the hill, or oddball… I’ll grant you, strongholds is territories (now with animation!), but to exclude the other 3 core objective game types from a Halo game? I have over 10,000 multiplayer games in each of Halo 2, Halo 3, and Reach. I didn’t get anywhere near that with Halo 4 because you guys did a few things that were maddeningly limiting to the gameplay. Only having a few maps ever playable at a time was horrible, and in mixed playlists in Halo 4, the objective games were always the third option, so slayer minded players would always win out. You guys adjusted that metric for MCC, but in Halo 4 you still had flag, hill, bomb, and territory games to choose from… In Halo 5, we’ll apparently be able to choose flag or strongholds. Do you really think people are interested in playing slayer for 3 years? Slayer is fine, it’s entertaining… for a while. And I love CTF… I could take or leave territories, but just flag and territories isn’t enough for the long-term. Now, I have been paying close attention to your marketing and interviews, obviously, so I did see where you guys said the launch game types weren’t the only game types you’ll have… So, consider this the perspective of a very experienced veteran Halo objective player: We will need bomb, king of the hill, and oddball… I’m sure some people are content with slayer and what you’ll offer. And that’s fine for them, I’m not speaking for them, I’m speaking for myself and other objective players who are getting pretty short shrift by the looks of things… So I’d simply hope that among those future updates are the actual core game types you’re apparently going to be missing. Unfortunately, after over 40,000 multiplayer matches, with only CTF and Strongholds as the objective game types, I won’t be buying Halo 5 at release… and that bums me out.

Here I found this for you 343 Industries studio head Josh Holmes-"This is one of the biggest challenges as a developer, really. Every player is going to have a different set of experiences they love and care about from past Halos. In aggregate, that list is unmanageably large. Not just from the perspective of building them all for each game (since everything needs to be rebuilt, retuned and rebalanced for a new engine), but simply the overload of information (too many choices) and population density (not enough players in the smaller playlists to support quality play). That’s why you see rotation of content in matchmaking and why we are focusing on a polished core set of game types for Halo 5. I would rather deliver a core set of experiences at launch that are truly awesome than a vast grab bag of experiences that feel half baked. They key of course is to make sure that we have the right core set. We’ll be sharing more details about this closer to launch."

First, I have to say that if you find assault and ctf to be different enough to warrant upset when one of them is removed… well, I just don’t know what to say to offer you any comfort.

That said, I think you also have to remember how much is at stake with Warzone. Generic Warzone matches will have some pretty significant objective game play elements. I know it will not be the objective experience as it was in previous titles, but it looks as if it’s shaping up to be the go-to game mode for slayer guys, objective guys, and maybe even for firefight people such as myself. Judging it pre-emptively because of what it isn’t is not really doing the game or yourself any favors. Give it a try and see what you think before you get too upset about the the lack of traditional 4v4 objective game types.

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> Here I found this for you 343 Industries studio head Josh Holmes-"This is one of the biggest challenges as a developer, really. Every player is going to have a different set of experiences they love and care about from past Halos. In aggregate, that list is unmanageably large. Not just from the perspective of building them all for each game (since everything needs to be rebuilt, retuned and rebalanced for a new engine), but simply the overload of information (too many choices) and population density (not enough players in the smaller playlists to support quality play). That’s why you see rotation of content in matchmaking and why we are focusing on a polished core set of game types for Halo 5. I would rather deliver a core set of experiences at launch that are truly awesome than a vast grab bag of experiences that feel half baked. They key of course is to make sure that we have the right core set. We’ll be sharing more details about this closer to launch."

Thanks for replying about playlists when I specifically said this wasn’t at all about playlists, but about actual functionality of the game. I don’t care if there are playlists for king of the hill, oddball, or assault, I care that the gametypes themselves exist in the game.

As to whether Warzone will satisfy me… I may never know. I will not buy this game if it doesn’t remotely bother to cater to the type of Halo matches I’m interested in playing. I shouldn’t have to deal with AI in order to play against other humans in interesting objective gametypes. I shouldn’t HAVE to play against AI in Halo Matchmaking at all… Shocking that a Firefight fan thinks this is okay… I’m not a firefight fan, I’m an objective player. It’s nice for you Firefight people that you got a version of that on steroids. It’s nice for you slayer people that there’s plenty of slayer. It’s even nice for the casual objective player that they have what they have. What they aren’t doing is even providing the option for the style of gameplay I want to even exist… So, no thanks.

the problem i think may have been is the fact that instead of playing for the objective everyone camps back from the obj and kills everyone around. Kids more worried about a good K/D then the objective. its like that in EVERY single FPS out

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> > 2533274805426282;2:
> > Here I found this for you 343 Industries studio head Josh Holmes-"This is one of the biggest challenges as a developer, really. Every player is going to have a different set of experiences they love and care about from past Halos. In aggregate, that list is unmanageably large. Not just from the perspective of building them all for each game (since everything needs to be rebuilt, retuned and rebalanced for a new engine), but simply the overload of information (too many choices) and population density (not enough players in the smaller playlists to support quality play). That’s why you see rotation of content in matchmaking and why we are focusing on a polished core set of game types for Halo 5. I would rather deliver a core set of experiences at launch that are truly awesome than a vast grab bag of experiences that feel half baked. They key of course is to make sure that we have the right core set. We’ll be sharing more details about this closer to launch."
>
>
> Thanks for replying about playlists when I specifically said this wasn’t at all about playlists, but about actual functionality of the game. I don’t care if there are playlists for king of the hill, oddball, or assault, I care that the gametypes themselves exist in the game.
>
> As to whether Warzone will satisfy me… I may never know. I will not buy this game if it doesn’t remotely bother to cater to the type of Halo matches I’m interested in playing. I shouldn’t have to deal with AI in order to play against other humans in interesting objective gametypes. I shouldn’t HAVE to play against AI in Halo Matchmaking at all… Shocking that a Firefight fan thinks this is okay… I’m not a firefight fan, I’m an objective player. It’s nice for you Firefight people that you got a version of that on steroids. It’s nice for you slayer people that there’s plenty of slayer. It’s even nice for the casual objective player that they have what they have. What they aren’t doing is even providing the option for the style of gameplay I want to even exist… So, no thanks.

I didn’t mean to suggest that I think it’s okay. I just think it is what it is. And for the record, I don’t consider Warzone in any way to be a replacement for firefight. But again, like you, I’m not gonna get what I want. So I have to decide. Am I gonna ignore all the things that Guardians is… just because of one thing that it isn’t? Or am I going to take her for a spin around the block, have some fun, and then slide in my Reach disc for some real firefight action once backward compatibility kicks in? With BC you will have access to whatever objective playlists were available for H3, Reach, and H4 at the time they stopped playlist rotation. H4 is still pulling in roughly 20k players a day. Reach is about the same last I checked. H3 I don’t know, but I bet it’s enough population to be workable, and BC can only help.

I’m really not trying to minimize your frustration. I’m frustrated too. MCC was an object lesson in just how TeamSlayer-oriented Halo is becoming, and I think it’s a genuine shame that 343 doesn’t think there’s room at the table for the rest of us. Not to claim that my pain is greater than anyone else’s, but I think it’s the PvE players who’ve got the biggest shaft of all. The only thing I can really encourage you to do is to keep voicing your concerns and opinions. It may not seem like it, but they’re heard.

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> First, I have to say that if you find assault and ctf to be different enough to warrant upset when one of them is removed… well, I just don’t know what to say to offer you any comfort.
>
> That said, I think you also have to remember how much is at stake with Warzone. Generic Warzone matches will have some pretty significant objective game play elements. I know it will not be the objective experience as it was in previous titles, but it looks as if it’s shaping up to be the go-to game mode for slayer guys, objective guys, and maybe even for firefight people such as myself. Judging it pre-emptively because of what it isn’t is not really doing the game or yourself any favors. Give it a try and see what you think before you get too upset about the the lack of traditional 4v4 objective game types.

Agree!

I don’t have as many games under my belt, but I have been playing Halo since the beginning, and the gametypes, or lack thereof, in Halo 5 are a pretty big issue for me also. Slayer, Territories, and CTF aren’t enough to get me to buy this game. Warzone might be fun to waste time in now and again, but it is no substitute for straight up PVP combat, regardless of the objectives therein.

To DHG’s point, the proper way to handle a k/d obsessed player in objective games is to change the ways stats are tracked, not remove the objective games. If you only show people their k/d from slayer matches, they will stop joining objective matches just to artificially boost their k/d.

I’m really hoping to see more objective gametypes introduced very quickly, but as it stands, just having played the beta is more than enough Halo 5 for me.

I strongly agree with ChctawMonkeyPaw.
I have been playing Halo since 2001 with +10k games in each of H2, H3, Reach over various accounts. I am an objective player and would choice it any day over a slayer match. I strongly suggest 343i add oddball, KOTH and assault back into H5. Otherwise the playlist will get boring fast, and I’ll just move back to HaloMCC (if the population still exists).

Especially since they’re gearing towards a strong focus on esports with halo5 they need to offer some very strong objective based game modes.

Come on 343 we need some more objective gametypes especially for the halo pro player’s

I’m on the brink of losing it if I don’t get some King of the Hill action.

No matter how you spin it, Halo 5 is seriously lacking in the gametypes department. I’ve been a rabid fan since Halo 1, and even through some of Halo 4’s misgivings, I was still there. But my confidence in 343 is starting to wane. I can only stand so much slayer, as it bores me. I’ve always thought Halo shined in the objective gametypes, which is what always had me coming back for more.

I agree 100%. It’s probably cause of the maps. I mean flag is only played on like three maps.