Constructive criticism on ordinance drops.

Ordinance drops are, by far, the biggest problem in matchmaking in my eyes for several key reasons. The first is that they don’t just require the most important concept of P v P to be obtained: killing an opponent. A person can accumulate however many points – without penalty – by being a hindrance rather than a benefit to the team. Now this in itself is not really a problem until the first ordinance is dropped AND has been selected. It’s at this stage however, where the main problem lies.

Map understanding is – or was – a critical component in online matchmaking. The team which held the key positions, memorised the respawn times, and were able to get those weapons were objectively deserved of them. If you allowed an enemy team to get easy access to every power weapon on the map, then that wasn’t really a problem with the game, it was problem with how well you and your team communicated, or rather, a problem with the lack of map understanding.

Enter the ordinance phase, where it all comes down to probabilities. Probabilities: a phenomenon which calculates the possible outcome of an event in relation to amount of events possible. The way I see it, is that you can’t calculate or objectively know what a player will get, or where, in an ordinance drop, and this is different to knowing where a weapon will spawn and at what time it will be there (the old system.) You can memorise the percentages or likely hood, but you can’t willingly know what drop a player will get and choose, meaning that memorising this becomes redundant, because you can’t apply it to the game effectively, as it requires too many uncontrollable variables to be correct.

Every Infinity Slayer of game you’d be going into, you’d be going in blind when it came to what weapons would appear on the map and throughout the game at different points in time. This meant that the skill gap would lower to effectively compensate for those who weren’t bothered to learn such mechanics of a map.

Even COD’s approach has some form of logic. IIRC, COD relies on having set objectives and one SET reward at each set. More importantly, these “drops” would have to be achieved without dying. This in essence does three things:

  • It rewards a player who has the ability to go on a killing streak compared to someone who goes negative.- It’s totally independent on the number of points you earn/what medals you get. - A player who takes the time to understand what a player would get at what level could prepare for what would occur, giving them a deserved advantage.Even so, I don’t like the idea of such a system, as it gives some form of double-standard and there are far better ways to reward players for playing well.

Possible Solution: Get rid of them? Make them only contain the primary weapon you start with?

Any thoughts you guys have or might like to add?

I say get rid of it, this isn’t call of duty with a Halo skin.

> I say get rid of it, this isn’t call of duty with a Halo skin.

343 might have a microtransaction avaliable for that :stuck_out_tongue:

> > I say get rid of it, this isn’t call of duty with a Halo skin.
>
> 343 might have a microtransaction avaliable for that :stuck_out_tongue:

Possibly, I would not be surprised.

In MM it has no place. If Player A and Player B put in an equal amount of effort, then why does Player A get rockets, snipers and damage boost while Player B gets a Needler? It also removes map control, since we’re no longer trying to control the area that has the power weapon, we can just get it delivered right in front of us.

It could possibly work in Spartan Ops, provided they dumb it down a bit and if they added a scoring system or something (I doubt they’d do that but it is a possibility). Like score x amount of points or complete a certain objective, then you can get ammo for your loadout weapons, grenades or a power weapon.

It’s about the only place I could see it working, either that or just remove it outright.

How it should have been

Short summary of the thread, please do support it as well.

1: Remove all power weapons from Personal Ordnance, use loadout weapons instead for changing them or as ammo refills. Grenades can be in as well.

2: Put icons over drops that are about to come in, some 20 to 30 seconds before they actually drop on the map. Show it to everyone on the map as well, not just those within 80 metres. Those using the Engineer mod could see the icon earlier or get a timer showing the exact moment it drops. Everything random about them can be kept.

The reason everything random can be kept is that everyone is aware about what will happen. Everyone knows a binary rifle will spawn at the pelican on ragnarok, everyone knows how long it’ll take for it to spawn, if they bother to learn the timer on the icons.

This is how I imagined it would be.

Since they wanted to make multiplayer canon, I don’t see the tactical decision not to tell troops on the ground where and what something will drop. The Infinity ship is there to deliver equipment, right? Why do they not announce it to the troops what they’ll drop and where? That’s a tactical shortcoming that could, in a real situation, waste resources if the troops aren’t aware of it and potentially give the enemy the equipment.

> Remove all power weapons from Personal Ordnance, use loadout weapons instead for changing them or as ammo refills. Grenades can be in as well.

This is what I originally had been advocating for. It’d kill two birds with one stone: getting rid of the horrible probabilities involved in the system and compensate for the lack of starting weapons/starting ammunition on the map.

I dont like PODs but they could be more balanced. Power ups only would be a good solution. Or Primary weapon ammo, nades, and a different AA. Team Throwdown uses PODs the best IMO. Getting rid of them would be the best for Infinity Slayer but I doubt that happens.

If you dont like PODs then dont play playlists with them. Right now I’m addicted to CTF but I back out if Infinity CTF has more votes.

The logic for adding doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. 343 wanted new players to have access to power weapons they might not have gotten in previous Halos, which is an odd statement in itself; if Trueskill is doing its job, then new players should be matched with similar level players, therefore, weapon and map domination shouldn’t be that big a problem.

Getting back to the original point, the same applies to good players, so won’t the better players shut down all the new players with their power weapons? And, in my experience, the game seems to award better weapons the better you’re playing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a decent set of choices when I’m going negative.

Sorry guys, but I like Ord Drops. I hate finding ords on maps, b/c i constantly get screwed by players who pick it up and dont know how to use it. However, i rather have loadout weapons on the map, cuz it seems the ammo for each weapon is way too low and i have to constantly find some more.

> The logic for adding doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. 343 wanted new players to have access to power weapons they might not have gotten in previous Halos, which is an odd statement in itself; if Trueskill is doing its job, then new players should be matched with similar level players, therefore, weapon and map domination shouldn’t be that big a problem.
>
> Getting back to the original point, the same applies to good players, so won’t the better players shut down all the new players with their power weapons? And, in my experience, the game seems to award better weapons the better you’re playing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a decent set of choices when I’m going negative.

In a way, its true. Like i mentioned, i used to get screwed, b/c it seems players would beat me on getting to an ord, and i barely even used ords in prev. titles. Made it unfair in a way, but with ord drops, it makes it easier for me to recieve ords instead of hunting them down.

Add grenades and other weapons/power weapons to be picked up, remove ordnance.

I liked what one guys idea was. Basically revert back to equal AR no AA starts but have the Loadout basically be your Ordinance drop loadout or something. Like have Ordinance take the primary,grenade,and AA choice from your selected Loadout and instead drop that. This coupled with a change to how you receive them as well would be good.

> Getting back to the original point, the same applies to good players, so won’t the better players shut down all the new players with their power weapons?

It’s all dependent on what choice they have in their ordinance drop; there are a sizable number of permutations with varying probabilities possible, and the primary problem is that the drop can be either undeservedly redundant, or undeservedly advantageous; depending on the situation at that moment in time.

And there shouldn’t be a double-standard: players who perform better in-game should not be given such a reward either, especially considering there are a host of other ways to go about it. It should never come down to a bunch of percentages.

> And, in my experience, the game seems to award better weapons the better you’re playing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a decent set of choices when I’m going negative.

I haven’t read anything about something like this so you’ll have to forgive me if I think of it as anectodal evidence. All I can say is that’s the effect of having something which relies on an event made out by a randomised sequence rather than the players controlling everything themselves.

My advise is make a specific type of drop for every button. If you want grenades then press the left button, if you want to refill your current weapon press right, if you want to get a power weapon or any other type of load out weapon press down.

If you have reached your first ordinance the game can offer all type of grenades randomly or add two spare magazines for current load out weapon or request a new weapon that can be another load out weapon or a Tier 1 power weapon. As long as you earned your next ordinance you can request one more clip to any kind of power weapon (note: Load out weapons still got two), select any kind of grenades again or request a Tier 1 or Tier 2 power weapon. If you reached your third drop then you can request grenades, ammo or a Tier 2 or 3 power weapon.

What about power ups?
I think they have to be map pickups, or they can pop up randomly at the place of grenades after your first request.

Some power weapons still can be placed on maps and random ordinance is also can mix things up a little. I think a player who can be decent against/with any weapon is more better than someone who is only good with one. Random Ordinances and Personal Ordinances are requires more attention and situational awareness than map pickups. Maybe not as competitive but you need to be a better player if you want to outperform power weapon users since you never knows when and where they will pop up. Knowledge is power yes, but always know where and when to go in a multiplayer game is a cheap tactic and boring in my eyes. Random things are shakes up game play and are more challenging. If you gets mad being killed in a game, then you shouldn’t play it anymore. I used to rage about the DMR (you can dig up my older posts) but since I ignore it, I play better and enjoys the game more. Don’t get me wrong, balance need to be at the first place as always but if 343 get rid of Ordinance then they need to re balance the sandbox again and it can cause more problems. Also, we lose one of the biggest innovation form this game.

(Note: “Tiers” are based upon my personal toughs. The list should be changed by map or mode.)
Tier 1: SAW, Sticky Detonator, Needler, Concussion Rifle
Tier 2: Shotgun, Railgun, Scattershot, Energy Sword, Gravity Hammer
Tier 3: Sniper Rifle, Beam Rifle, Binary Rifle, Rocket Launcher, Spartan Laser, Incineration Cannon

Tier 1 weapons are need to take more hits to kill (except Sticky) but in a long term they are better against vehicles. Tier 2 weapons are mostly one hit kills but lacks versatility and mostly weak against vehicles. Tier 3 weapons are weapons that can be pull of one shot kills, versatile, powerful against vehicles but they can harm the user. Tier 1 weapons can beat Tier 2 weapons because Tier 2 weapons are mostly close range (except Railgun) so JIP players still have a chance to beat Tier 2 users. Tier 2 can beat most of the Tier 3 weapons at close range (note: Suicide rockets or long range campers can break up balance.), especially if being used wisely. As I mentioned before, maps and modes can affect Tiers (An Energy Sword is useless in Ragnarok) to offer the best selection for the game play (More than one team member with a sniper rifle will break game play on maps like Haven). Personally I think Big Team Games doesn’t need ordinances, map pickups will positively effect map movement and control (Current state of Ragnarok’s DMR and Sniper heavy game play is unacceptable). 343 will re balance the starting weapons in the near future after that they shouldn’t be affect Ordinances too much. (Mainly thinking about map control on Ragnarok with DMRs… hell it’s map dominance!)

As I mentioned it before those changes can affect vehicle game play. First, Tier 1 weapons are decent against vehicles, which means if Team A lost vehicle combats at the beginning then they still got a chance against Team B with their personal or map ordinances. Tier 2 weapons being less effective against vehicles and earning them is a longer process means Team B have a good chance against Team A’s on foot members. Game play just get balanced, vehicles off but for exchange, Team B have the advantage on foot. This is the time when vehicles are come to the picture again. (A Tier 2 Shotgun camper is a tasty breakfast for a Wraith or for a swift Warthog!) Vehicle’s respawn times are relatively fast in Halo 4, so Team A can obtain vehicles again. Team B now looks like in a disadvantage but random ordinances just got dropped onto the map! Those toys are effective, mostly Tier 3 weapons, Team B now can catch up with Team A. One or more member of Team A or Team B should earned their third and most powerful ordinance (note: Most of the players are only able to reach Tier 2, not everyone is good as we think and the first two Tiers are also can be really rewarding even for less skilled players.). This is the moment when the real crush begins! The team who performed better in the entire match will eventually triumph but the others still have/had the chance to take away victory. Yes it’s a really weak balance after all but it’s works really well in mind. Strong teamwork is required. The only think that can kick off balance, if one of the Teams got everything (Vehicles & Random ordinance). Well, the team who can pull this trick off would win anyway but nobody likes to being dominated. Place the anti-vehicle ordinances far away from the vehicles, that should solve some issues. But never forget, there is always be space for problems.

(Please forgive me for typing or grammar mistakes, English is not my native language.)

If ordnance were to be kept in halo 5 I say first it should only be in a “casual” or “social” playlist only but ordnance should be similar to COD’s kill/score streak system for several reasons

-It rewards players for not dying
-Reduces the randomness by having a certain weapon or power up only drop after a certain score has been reached so a needler is obtained after a 5 streak and a binary rifle is given at a 12 kill streak (also no more noobs going 5k and 27d getting a Binary Rifle, Beam Rifle and Overshield on their first ordnance while a pro going 30k and 4d gets a Needler, Plasma Grenade and Speedboost)
-Rewards both killing enemies and playing the objective
-Still makes on map power weapons important as only minor loot is obtained by streak ordnance

OD is the biggest problem for me it makes TS unplayable for me so all i have is pro rumble or team throwdown and you can imagine how much fun that is playing alone.

I think tier 1 would be fine to leave alone.
Tier 2 would be a little crazy and rare.
Tier 3 just becomes ridiculous.
I knew a guy who would snipe, and every time he got his ordnance, there was some ammo for his sniper or a binary rifle. Yet when I got my ordnance, it was usually a saw or a needler.(I still love those weapons)
Yes, in CoD(BO2), there was a set reward for streaks. UAV for a tier 1 streak, Air strike in tier 2, and a drone in tier 3. Here, i don’t know what i’m getting, though the random variable is kinda fun.
But taking the randomness out would reduce it to call of duty-esque type play. It’s an impasse.

> Ordinance drops are, by far, the biggest problem in matchmaking in my eyes for several key reasons. The first is that they don’t just require the most important concept of P v P to be obtained: killing an opponent. A person can accumulate however many points – without penalty – by being a hindrance rather than a benefit to the team. Now this in itself is not really a problem until the first ordinance is dropped AND has been selected. It’s at this stage however, where the main problem lies.
>
> Map understanding is – or was – a critical component in online matchmaking. The team which held the key positions, memorised the respawn times, and were able to get those weapons were objectively deserved of them. If you allowed an enemy team to get easy access to every power weapon on the map, then that wasn’t really a problem with the game, it was problem with how well you and your team communicated, or rather, a problem with the lack of map understanding.
>
> Enter the ordinance phase, where it all comes down to probabilities. Probabilities: a phenomenon which calculates the possible outcome of an event in relation to amount of events possible. The way I see it, is that you can’t calculate or objectively know what a player will get, or where, in an ordinance drop, and this is different to knowing where a weapon will spawn and at what time it will be there (the old system.) You can memorise the percentages or likely hood, but you can’t willingly know what drop a player will get and choose, meaning that memorising this becomes redundant, because you can’t apply it to the game effectively, as it requires too many uncontrollable variables to be correct.
>
> Every Infinity Slayer of game you’d be going into, you’d be going in blind when it came to what weapons would appear on the map and throughout the game at different points in time. This meant that the skill gap would lower to effectively compensate for those who weren’t bothered to learn such mechanics of a map.
>
> Even COD’s approach has some form of logic. IIRC, COD relies on having set objectives and one SET reward at each set. More importantly, these “drops” would have to be achieved without dying. This in essence does three things:
> - It rewards a player who has the ability to go on a killing streak compared to someone who goes negative.- It’s totally independent on the number of points you earn/what medals you get. - A player who takes the time to understand what a player would get at what level could prepare for what would occur, giving them a deserved advantage.Even so, I don’t like the idea of such a system, as it gives some form of double-standard and there are far better ways to reward players for playing well.
>
> Possible Solution: Get rid of them? Make them only contain the primary weapon you start with?
>
> Any thoughts you guys have or might like to add?

Ordnance- Military weapons with their equipment/ammunition

Ordinance- Authoritative rule or law/A public injunction of regulation

Yup. Ordinance drops have to be removed from Halo alright!

I feel like the ordinances drops should be more controlled like if we had all starter weapons from one faction we get only faction based load outs.

few times I select a load out the load out never comes and most of the time I never get the ordinance could use for the situation I went one match getting about 3-4 ordinances never got any thing I was looking for but on the bright side I did pick up drops from the enemy team of the precise thing I was never offered.

In spartan ops I feel ordinance weapons should be available but I prefer the idea of them being in the starting equipment for spartan ops only.