Concerning the CC

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Now, we all know it some refuse it others argue it but the CC is a worthless weapon. It has a role that is the same as the BR but unlike the BR it has less kills per mag, no bleedthrough, a slower kill time and a longer reload. So one could ask “What is the point in this weapon” that is just it, outside of preference and putting yourself at a disadvantage there is none. How do we fix this? Well I have a few ideas…I also want to know what you think.

Here are mine.

A. Make it 100% = to the BR and when spawning with BRs the CC is an option.

Pros: Makes the game feel less like a BR fest and a useless clone is now a useful clone.

Cons: It is a clone. (even though it already is)

B. Halo 4 KT, double its mag and make it an auto (think NR) but put it on map 2 on every map (like the NR was) the auto version would fire slightly slower then when you use it like a semi-auto.

Pros: A unique weapon and has a advantage over the BR in a few ways but not in all ways (meaning they are balance)

Cons: I can’t really think of any.

There you have it. Also this is coming from a CC fan.

2

Option B. If the CC was basically a Covenant BR, what would be the point in making them different weapons? The Plasma Pistol functions differently from the Magnum, thus each one has it’s own uses. A Carbine that functions as a purple Battle Rifle only has aesthetic differences, thus it loses it’s value and originality.

3

> Option B. If the CC was basically a Covenant BR, what would be the point in making them different weapons? The Plasma Pistol functions differently from the Magnum, thus each one has it’s own uses. A Carbine that functions as a purple Battle Rifle only has aesthetic differences, thus it loses it’s value and originality.

While true, you can not lose something you never had it has always been a “purple BR” it just is not as good as it in any way.

4

I LOVE the carbine.

But I wouldn’t bring it up to the same stats as a BR, I agree it needs some modifications on the damage tables and I also agree if ‘‘weapon sets’’ are in Halo 5 at some point then we should be able to pick from the CC and BR, I just think it should not look to be a rehash of the BR stat wise.

5

I would hardly consider the CC a useless weapon. It is my go to for Halo 4 right now and I routinely play well with it.

I usually only play when I’m with a group of friends on the same TV. When they saw I switched all my loadouts to CC they told me I was an idiot. After a couple games they all shut up.

So I guess out of the options you’ve presented I’d pick A.

6

> I would hardly consider the CC a useless weapon. It is my go to for Halo 4 right now and I routinely play well with it.
>
> I usually only play when I’m with a group of friends on the same TV. When they saw I switched all my loadouts to CC they told me I was an idiot. After a couple games they all shut up.
>
> So I guess out of the options you’ve presented I’d pick A.

In H4 it is almost as good as a BR in the 31 days I’ve put into H4 all I use is the CC it is not useless like H2 and H3 BUT this is because you can spawn with it. If you were forced BR there is no point in it. In everyway the BR outclasses and matchs the CC (in H4)

Also there is a poll, vote ^-^

7

Um…

Option B. Definitely option B. Certainly option B.

I would argue that currently, there isn’t enough difference between the BR and the CC, but B would help increase the long-needed variety in the sandbox.

8

I would prefer we don’t have weapons that are that redundant in the first place. However if we are stuck with some redundancy then here is what I suggest.

Map specific starting weapons. In a similar way Midship would spawn you with plasma grenades, certain maps spawn different weapons such as the Carbine.

You get a Carbine on certain mid sized Covy and some Forerunner themed maps, BRs for human and some forerunner maps. BTB maps spawn you with a DMR/NR/LR depending on the final sandbox and what fits best. Something like an ODST SMG would not be out of the question for smaller maps either. This would also depend on what weapon is most suitable gameplay wise for a particular map.

Competitive gametypes and playlist would most likely have a single weapon.

This would maintain totally equal starts while changing up the metagame on a map to map basis.

9

I personally like having the functional clones of utility weapons. In fact, the BR, CC, and DMR were all designed to take the place of the CE Magnum, but with different fire rate, power, and firing method attributes.

I say we keep them that way. It may be an exercise in redundancy, but I like seeing different people with different preferences in attributes for their utility weapon, and I think the differences are actually enough for most people in my experience of being online in Halo.

However, to perfectly balance the BR, CC, and DMR in the same mid-long range role that I believe that they should have (auto weapons should actually be close-mid range instead of just close), the following must be done below:

#1 All 3 guns should have ZERO bloom, and ZERO spread, with these mechanics being replaced completely with a ODST style recoil mechanic. This would allow all 3 guns to be capable of cross-mapping just like the zero spread BR in Halo 2 and the DMR and NR in Reach.

#2 All 3 guns should only have a 2x zoom. The only reason that the DMR can cross-map so easily is not because of perfect accuracy, but it’s 3x zoom, which magnifies targets a bit too much. The zero spread BR in Halo 2 and the NR in Reach had perfect accuracy as well, but they only had a 2x zoom, so that cross-mapping was possible but not easy due to limited target magnification. This would be the main fix to the DMR.

#3 All 3 guns should have shield-to-health bleedthrough back. The CC actually had this in H2 and H3, and the DMR had it in MLG Reach. Bleedthrough was removed from the guns by default in Reach and H4. The H4 BR has mock bleedthrough because of its burst fire trait, but still technically does not have it. Bringing bleedthrough back for all 3 guns would balance their abilities to finish low shield players better, especially ones weakened by grenades.

#4 All 3 guns should be able to kill 3 enemy players in one mag. The BR has always been able to do this with its 4sk and 12 burst magazine(minus pre TU H4). The Reach DMR could do this with its 5sk and 15 round magazine, and should be brought back to that 15 round magazine instead of the 14 round magazine that always leaves it a shot short in H4. The CC however, has never had this trait and it is about time it has it. This could be done by keeping its current 7sk and buffing the magazine size to 21 rounds, or we could keep its 18 round magazine and buff its power to a 6sk with an ever so slightly slower fire rate. Either way, the CC needs this trait BAD.

#5 Lastly, all 3 guns need the same reload times. All 3 guns already have the same reload time when the magazine is fully empty, but the DMR and BR both have the ability to reload slightly faster if they still have at least 1 round left in the magazine. The CC doesn’t have this trait, but it is a simple and I believe overlooked add that could benefit the CC greatly.

Here would be the stats for the 3 guns:

DMR: 2x zoom, 5sk, 15 round magazine.

BR: 2x zoom, 4 burst kill, 12 burst magazine.

CC: 2x zoom, 7sk, 21 round magazine/6sk, 18 round magazine.

Then players could could choose which utility weapon they prefer based on attributes.

I would definitely accept more unique weapons than the perfect clones that I have described, but I have yet to see good ideas that, imo, are both unique and don’t render similar weapons useless. I don’t want to spawn with a BR and the CC and DMR be straight upgrades. There needs to be a gain and a sacrifice to pickup items in my opinion.

Good debating,
-SMARTAN 427

10

> I personally like having the functional clones of utility weapons. In fact, the BR, CC, and DMR were all designed to take the place of the CE Magnum, but with different fire rate, power, and firing method attributes.
>
> I say we keep them that way. It may be an exercise in redundancy, but I like seeing different people with different preferences in attributes for their utility weapon, and I think the differences are actually enough for most people in my experience of being online in Halo.
>
> However, to perfectly balance the BR, CC, and DMR in the same mid-long range role that I believe that they should have (auto weapons should actually be close-mid range instead of just close), the following must be done below:
>
> #1 All 3 guns should have ZERO bloom, and ZERO spread, with these mechanics being replaced completely with a ODST style recoil mechanic. This would allow all 3 guns to be capable of cross-mapping just like the zero spread BR in Halo 2 and the DMR and NR in Reach.
>
> #2 All 3 guns should only have a 2x zoom. The only reason that the DMR can cross-map so easily is not because of perfect accuracy, but it’s 3x zoom, which magnifies targets a bit too much. The zero spread BR in Halo 2 and the NR in Reach had perfect accuracy as well, but they only had a 2x zoom, so that cross-mapping was possible but not easy due to limited target magnification. This would be the main fix to the DMR.
>
> #3 All 3 guns should have shield-to-health bleedthrough back. The CC actually had this in H2 and H3, and the DMR had it in MLG Reach. Bleedthrough was removed from the guns by default in Reach and H4. The H4 BR has mock bleedthrough because of its burst fire trait, but still technically does not have it. Bringing bleedthrough back for all 3 guns would balance their abilities to finish low shield players better, especially ones weakened by grenades.
>
> #4 All 3 guns should be able to kill 3 enemy players in one mag. The BR has always been able to do this with its 4sk and 12 burst magazine(minus pre TU H4). The Reach DMR could do this with its 5sk and 15 round magazine, and should be brought back to that 15 round magazine instead of the 14 round magazine that always leaves it a shot short in H4. The CC however, has never had this trait and it is about time it has it. This could be done by keeping its current 7sk and buffing the magazine size to 21 rounds, or we could keep its 18 round magazine and buff its power to a 6sk with an ever so slightly slower fire rate. Either way, the CC needs this trait BAD.
>
> #5 Lastly, all 3 guns need the same reload times. All 3 guns already have the same reload time when the magazine is fully empty, but the DMR and BR both have the ability to reload slightly faster if they still have at least 1 round left in the magazine. The CC doesn’t have this trait, but it is a simple and I believe overlooked add that could benefit the CC greatly.
>
> Here would be the stats for the 3 guns:
>
> DMR: 2x zoom, 5sk, 15 round magazine.
>
> BR: 2x zoom, 4 burst kill, 12 burst magazine.
>
> CC: 2x zoom, 7sk, 21 round magazine/6sk, 18 round magazine.
>
> Then players could could choose which utility weapon they prefer based on attributes.
>
> I would definitely accept more unique weapons than the perfect clones that I have described, but I have yet to see good ideas that, imo, are both unique and don’t render similar weapons useless. I don’t want to spawn with a BR and the CC and DMR be straight upgrades. There needs to be a gain and a sacrifice to pickup items in my opinion.
>
> Good debating,
> -SMARTAN 427

Eeeeewwwww my functional clone description really looks disturbingly unappealing when I read it again.

I’m trying REALLY hard to think of some better ideas to make the guns more unique and appealing now…

Please give me a moment to do that…

Good debating,
-SMARTAN 427

11

Ehh I say leave it the same. Different weapons have different uses. Why make everything the same?

12

> Ehh I say leave it the same. Different weapons have different uses. Why make everything the same?

The CC has 0 use other then being a clone as is right now.

13

> > Ehh I say leave it the same. Different weapons have different uses. Why make everything the same?
>
> The CC has 0 use other then being a clone as is right now.

This is the way I look at it. BR is a spartan weapon, Carbine is a Covenant weapon. Different races, different technologies. Sure you can say technologies can evolve, but as of now. I see no problem with a lesser precision weapon. But that’s my opinion.

14

> > > Ehh I say leave it the same. Different weapons have different uses. Why make everything the same?
> >
> > The CC has 0 use other then being a clone as is right now.
>
> This is the way I look at it. BR is a spartan weapon, Carbine is a Covenant weapon. Different races, different technologies. Sure you can say technologies can evolve, but as of now. I see no problem with a lesser precision weapon. But that’s my opinion.

Well the CC is better in canon so if anything the CC should be better.

15

Ok, after some thinking, I had an idea for the CC to make it more worth using without changing its identity too much.

We could have the CC function like the Gears of War 3 Hammerburst.

Basically, we would make the CC fire automatically, but that fire rate would be slower than the CC’s H4 fire rate. However, we would make it so that you can manually make the CC fire extra fast by rapidly firing it semi-automatically and that would allow the CC to fire a bit faster than it does in H4.

The full auto fire rate would be slower with zero recoil, bloom, or spread. The semi-auto fire rate would be much faster but would also cause some recoil that pulls your aim up the more you shoot. There would be zero bloom or spread for the CC, period.

We would also keep the 2x zoom for the CC.

Also, because it could have a potentially faster kill time than other rifles, we could leave the CC magazine size the way it is, only getting slightly more than 2 kills before a reload is required.

And that reload would not need the slightly faster reload when ammo is still in the magazine as much.

I think this could breath some more life into the CC, making it worth picking up without rendering other rifles useless in comparison and nor would this make the CC OP.

I hope that can make up for my first post in this thread (although I do think that what I stated in that post would be better than what we have had in Halo up to this point).

Good debating,
-SMARTAN 427

16

> Ok, after some thinking, I had an idea for the CC to make it more worth using without changing its identity too much.
>
> We could have the CC function like the Gears of War 3 Hammerburst.
>
> Basically, we would make the CC fire automatically, but that fire rate would be slower than the CC’s H4 fire rate. However, we would make it so that you can manually make the CC fire extra fast by rapidly firing it semi-automatically and that would allow the CC to fire a bit faster than it does in H4.
>
> The full auto fire rate would be slower with zero recoil, bloom, or spread. The semi-auto fire rate would be much faster but would also cause some recoil that pulls your aim up the more you shoot. There would be zero bloom or spread for the CC, period.
>
> We would also keep the 2x zoom for the CC.
>
> Also, because it could have a potentially faster kill time than other rifles, we could leave the CC magazine size the way it is, only getting slightly more than 2 kills before a reload is required.
>
> And that reload would not need the slightly faster reload when ammo is still in the magazine as much.
>
> I think this could breath some more life into the CC, making it worth picking up without rendering other rifles useless in comparison and nor would this make the CC OP.
>
> I hope that can make up for my first post in this thread (although I do think that what I stated in that post would be better than what we have had in Halo up to this point).
>
> Good debating,
> -SMARTAN 427

I wish I read this before I voted option B. Of the two presented by op, definitely B is best, But I really like this, because it maintains the rapid semi-auto capability. not sure how much the full auto fire is needed, but then again without it the carbine essentially becomes the Reach BR (rapid fire is inaccurate, slower is more accurate).

17

Definitely going with option B, if we’re talking about a map-pickup (i.e not a loadout). Although, SMARTAN 427’s proposed “hammerburst” CC does look rather tempting, I must say.

18

Option B easily, but I don’t want it to be an Auto Carbine. Let people use their trigger finger to kill someone, not just another automatic that kills by holding a trigger.

The only reason the automatic function on NR was remotely useful, was because it had the Supercombine effect with higher rof. It made people who rushed you think twice. The bloom on the automatic function is terrible, but not when someone is trying to get in you’re face.

19

> Option B easily, but I don’t want it to be an Auto Carbine. Let people use their trigger finger to kill someone, not just another automatic that kills by holding a trigger.
>
> The only reason the automatic function on NR was remotely useful, was because it had the Supercombine effect with higher rof. It made people who rushed you think twice. The bloom on the automatic function is terrible, but not when someone is trying to get in you’re face.

I disagree letting trigger fingers at it allows modded controllers to have it.

20

> > Option B easily, but I don’t want it to be an Auto Carbine. Let people use their trigger finger to kill someone, not just another automatic that kills by holding a trigger.
> >
> > The only reason the automatic function on NR was remotely useful, was because it had the Supercombine effect with higher rof. It made people who rushed you think twice. The bloom on the automatic function is terrible, but not when someone is trying to get in you’re face.
>
> I disagree letting trigger fingers at it allows modded controllers to have it.

That’s not the Carbine’s fault though. That’s a whole other realm of problem, and people are going to use modded controllers for everything to gain an advantage anyways. I’ve liked it mainly because I have quick trigger finger. It would be sad to see it turned into an automatic, which takes away the skill and point of having a nice trigger finger.

Let other people burst and use assault rifles, but I need to have my rapid fire single shot. It is very satisfying to get a kill with the Carbine, because of the work you must put into it. I’ve completed its commendation in Halo 4 a long time ago. I’d hate to be it altered and not kept faithful to its function. Nothing says boring like holding down the trigger and not being the one to drive the gun (not let it drive you).