Concept for 'Classic vs New' movement debate

Games Halo Infinite
1

It’s common knowledge that Halo somewhat lost its identity over the course of sequels, following the original trilogy.

Now with the Master Chief, original art-style, original music and Split-Screen returning for Infinite, it’s fair to say 343 are making an effort to make Halo feel like Halo again.

The only problem is the Classic vs Advanced mobility debate. Should Spartan Abilities stay or go?

My personal preference is a return to Classic movement, however, I understand a huge portion of the current Halo fan base are relatively new and used to the gameplay mechanics from Reach onwards, and do not want it to change back. Fair enough.

I also know that a large portion of the Halo fan base, is laying dormant, waiting for a new Halo game to arrive that captures the same feel as the originals they love. Some may have moved on after the MCC launch fiasco, but others are still there, quickly latching on to games like Halo Online or Instalation 01 when they are made available to them.

How to please both playerbases without alianating the other?

My original thought was, why not have certain playlists with Advanced mobility enabled and certain playlists with it disabled.

After thinking about it some more and watching some of Favyn’s videos on the matter (I highly suggest you look him up) I realised it’s not really feasible because the different movement mechanics have gigantic impact on map design.

They would have to create seperate maps for Advanced mobility and other maps for Classic, splitting their allocated time to work on each map in half and each side would only get half of the playable maps.

But what do you guys think of having Spartan Abilities as pick-ups, similar to power-ups such as Overshield & Camo, perhaps differentiated by being able to keep the ability until you die instead of an allocated timer.

They did a similar thing with the Abilities in Competive Halo Reach, after things like Armor-Lock and sprint double melees were killing competitive play, you were only able to pick them up and were granted the ability from the get go.

Maybe the pick-ups could look like parts of Spartan armour that can be picked up and applied to your suit, giving you specific enhanced mobilities and once applied, other players can see you are wearing it and know to watch out for it.

Perhaps some areas of the map can only be reached an “enhanced Spartan”. Just throwing some ideas out there.

This would add another layer to the game, without changing the core gameplay mechanics.

Would like to know the communities thoughts on this.

Please keep things friendly, would like to have a constructive debate for once without people simply screaming what it is they personally want. Try to think of the other side.

2

Just disable them for certain playlists in multiplayer. Leave us unchained in campaign and firefight (if there is one) or any other PvE mode.

For sprint though I’d rather we keep the gun up and just suffer an accuracy penalty or something, that or just bump the base movement speed instead and cut sprint due to it now being unnecessary.

3

> 2533274808538326;2:
> Just disable them for certain playlists in multiplayer. Leave us unchained in campaign and firefight (if there is one) or any other PvE mode.
>
> For sprint though I’d rather we keep the gun up and just suffer an accuracy penalty or something, that or just bump the base movement speed instead and cut sprint due to it now being unnecessary.

Sorry, I probably should have made it clear I was talking about the multiplayer, not campaign

4

Why do people keep thinking the OG music and art are returning? Its been stated that its a new art style, containing what makes Halo feel like Halo (Classic INSPIRED art style, inspired, not actually the old art style). Its also a sort of mish-mash of Halo 4-5 and 1-3’s art, also we don’t know if the Original music is returning, they used one soundtrack from Halo 3 in the trailer, big whoop. Yea i know this if off topic but i wanted to say it.

5

I’ve seen a lot of people who like the changes say that they’ll always buy Halo regardless of its state because that’s what true fans do, so revert the series back to the original style and keep the armour abilities as map pickups for them. The old mechanics will be new to the younger demographic anyway. No half ‘n’ half; old music, old art style, old gameplay, new graphics.

6

> 2533274836465274;5:
> I’ve seen a lot of people who like the changes say that they’ll always buy Halo regardless of its state because that’s what true fans do, so revert the series back to the original style and keep the armour abilities as map pickups for them. The old mechanics will be new to the younger demographic anyway. No half ‘n’ half; old music, old art style, old gameplay, new graphics.

> 2533274825960614;4:
> Why do people keep thinking the OG music and art are returning? Its been stated that its a new art style, containing what makes Halo feel like Halo (Classic INSPIRED art style, inspired, not actually the old art style). Its also a sort of mish-mash of Halo 4-5 and 1-3’s art, also we don’t know if the Original music is returning, they used one soundtrack from Halo 3 in the trailer, big whoop. Yea i know this if off topic but i wanted to say it.

7

> 2533274825960614;6:
> > 2533274836465274;5:
> > I’ve seen a lot of people who like the changes say that they’ll always buy Halo regardless of its state because that’s what true fans do, so revert the series back to the original style and keep the armour abilities as map pickups for them. The old mechanics will be new to the younger demographic anyway. No half ‘n’ half; old music, old art style, old gameplay, new graphics.
>
>
>
> > 2533274825960614;4:
> > Why do people keep thinking the OG music and art are returning? Its been stated that its a new art style, containing what makes Halo feel like Halo (Classic INSPIRED art style, inspired, not actually the old art style). Its also a sort of mish-mash of Halo 4-5 and 1-3’s art, also we don’t know if the Original music is returning, they used one soundtrack from Halo 3 in the trailer, big whoop. Yea i know this if off topic but i wanted to say it.

Cuts to Master Chief wearing MK VI

It’s arguing semantics at this point. If the important aspects of the environment and characters actually resemble something out of Halo and not a generic sci fi show, then that’s what people are referring to when they request a return to the old style. I’ll take inspired, especially since to 343 “inspired” seems to mean “we just did it like how it used to be.”

8

> 2533274836465274;7:
> > 2533274825960614;6:
> > > 2533274836465274;5:
> > > I’ve seen a lot of people who like the changes say that they’ll always buy Halo regardless of its state because that’s what true fans do, so revert the series back to the original style and keep the armour abilities as map pickups for them. The old mechanics will be new to the younger demographic anyway. No half ‘n’ half; old music, old art style, old gameplay, new graphics.
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274825960614;4:
> > > Why do people keep thinking the OG music and art are returning? Its been stated that its a new art style, containing what makes Halo feel like Halo (Classic INSPIRED art style, inspired, not actually the old art style). Its also a sort of mish-mash of Halo 4-5 and 1-3’s art, also we don’t know if the Original music is returning, they used one soundtrack from Halo 3 in the trailer, big whoop. Yea i know this if off topic but i wanted to say it.
>
> Cuts to Master Chief wearing MK VI

Yea, and if you look closely you can see his helmet is a Combo of its Halo 4 and Halo 2-3 design. It even has that white thingy that is on all the helmets in Halo 4-5. Not to mention only his legs, part of his arm and his helmet have been shown so there might be even more differences.

9

> 2533274825960614;8:
> > 2533274836465274;7:
> > > 2533274825960614;6:
> > > > 2533274836465274;5:
> > > > I’ve seen a lot of people who like the changes say that they’ll always buy Halo regardless of its state because that’s what true fans do, so revert the series back to the original style and keep the armour abilities as map pickups for them. The old mechanics will be new to the younger demographic anyway. No half ‘n’ half; old music, old art style, old gameplay, new graphics.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274825960614;4:
> > > > Why do people keep thinking the OG music and art are returning? Its been stated that its a new art style, containing what makes Halo feel like Halo (Classic INSPIRED art style, inspired, not actually the old art style). Its also a sort of mish-mash of Halo 4-5 and 1-3’s art, also we don’t know if the Original music is returning, they used one soundtrack from Halo 3 in the trailer, big whoop. Yea i know this if off topic but i wanted to say it.
> >
> > Cuts to Master Chief wearing MK VI
>
> Yea, and if you look closely you can see his helmet is a Combo of its Halo 4 and Halo 2-3 design. It even has that white thingy that is on all the helmets in Halo 4-5. Not to mention only his legs, part of his arm and his helmet have been shown so there might be even more differences.

“Combo” in the sense that 99% of his armour resembles the original, proper MK VI suit.

10

I’d prefer the classic movements that’s been around since Reach. Sprint is included of course

11

> 2533274844542951;1:
> Maybe the pick-ups could look like parts of Spartan armour that can be picked up and applied to your suit, giving you specific enhanced mobilities and once applied, other players can see you are wearing it and know to watch out for it.

I’m on board with this, but only if certain spartan abilities are left out (spartan charge and ground pound, namely).

I’d much rather go back to the equipment from Halo 3 because it was simple and added an interesting complexity to encounters. It didn’t give too much of an advantage like the jet pack or armor lock (which I think was a mistake adding to Reach).

Or better yet, how about we get nothing, like it was in CE and Halo 2? With the right environment and story, you don’t need all that extra -Yoink- to have fun. One of my favorite aspects of classic Halo is exploring -Yoink-, which is indeed possible without sprint and clamber.

12

> 2533274836465274;9:
> > 2533274825960614;8:
> > > 2533274836465274;7:
> > > > 2533274825960614;6:
> > > > > 2533274836465274;5:
> > > > > I’ve seen a lot of people who like the changes say that they’ll always buy Halo regardless of its state because that’s what true fans do, so revert the series back to the original style and keep the armour abilities as map pickups for them. The old mechanics will be new to the younger demographic anyway. No half ‘n’ half; old music, old art style, old gameplay, new graphics.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2533274825960614;4:
> > > > > Why do people keep thinking the OG music and art are returning? Its been stated that its a new art style, containing what makes Halo feel like Halo (Classic INSPIRED art style, inspired, not actually the old art style). Its also a sort of mish-mash of Halo 4-5 and 1-3’s art, also we don’t know if the Original music is returning, they used one soundtrack from Halo 3 in the trailer, big whoop. Yea i know this if off topic but i wanted to say it.
> > >
> > > Cuts to Master Chief wearing MK VI
> >
> > Yea, and if you look closely you can see his helmet is a Combo of its Halo 4 and Halo 2-3 design. It even has that white thingy that is on all the helmets in Halo 4-5. Not to mention only his legs, part of his arm and his helmet have been shown so there might be even more differences.
>
> “Combo” in the sense that 99% of his armour resembles the original, proper MK VI suit.

And like i said, the entirety of his armor hasn’t been show yet. You can’t say “99% of his armour resembles the original” when we haven’t even SEEN all of the armor.

13

> 2533274825960614;12:
> > 2533274836465274;9:
> > > 2533274825960614;8:
> > > > 2533274836465274;7:
> > > > > 2533274825960614;6:
> > > > > > 2533274836465274;5:
> > > > > > I’ve seen a lot of people who like the changes say that they’ll always buy Halo regardless of its state because that’s what true fans do, so revert the series back to the original style and keep the armour abilities as map pickups for them. The old mechanics will be new to the younger demographic anyway. No half ‘n’ half; old music, old art style, old gameplay, new graphics.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 2533274825960614;4:
> > > > > > Why do people keep thinking the OG music and art are returning? Its been stated that its a new art style, containing what makes Halo feel like Halo (Classic INSPIRED art style, inspired, not actually the old art style). Its also a sort of mish-mash of Halo 4-5 and 1-3’s art, also we don’t know if the Original music is returning, they used one soundtrack from Halo 3 in the trailer, big whoop. Yea i know this if off topic but i wanted to say it.
> > > >
> > > > Cuts to Master Chief wearing MK VI
> > >
> > > Yea, and if you look closely you can see his helmet is a Combo of its Halo 4 and Halo 2-3 design. It even has that white thingy that is on all the helmets in Halo 4-5. Not to mention only his legs, part of his arm and his helmet have been shown so there might be even more differences.
> >
> > “Combo” in the sense that 99% of his armour resembles the original, proper MK VI suit.
>
> And like i said, the entirety of his armor hasn’t been show yet. You can’t say “99% of his armour resembles the original” when we haven’t even SEEN all of the armor.

But what was shown clearly resembles the original design, so much so that they made a point of it in the trailer.

14

> 2535447940912902;11:
> > 2533274844542951;1:
> > Maybe the pick-ups could look like parts of Spartan armour that can be picked up and applied to your suit, giving you specific enhanced mobilities and once applied, other players can see you are wearing it and know to watch out for it.
>
> I’m on board with this, but only if certain spartan abilities are left out (spartan charge and ground pound, namely).
>
> I’d much rather go back to the equipment from Halo 3 because it was simple and added an interesting complexity to encounters. It didn’t give too much of an advantage like the jet pack or armor lock (which I think was a mistake adding to Reach).
>
> Or better yet, how about we get nothing, like it was in CE and Halo 2? With the right environment and story, you don’t need all that extra -Yoink- to have fun. One of my favorite aspects of classic Halo is exploring -Yoink-, which is indeed possible without sprint and clamber

I’d advocate a much stronger Thruster as a pickup item. It won’t need to be balanced around every player having it, and it can have basically double range, perhaps even two uses per cooldown, and the player that grabbed it is suddenly a high priority target that everyone is after because he needs to be kept away from power weapons.

Haven’t worked out if it works like powerups and there is a time limit, or it’s just there until the player is killed, but the latter promotes camping.

However I don’t like (and basically never liked this about AAs and SAs) the fact that there is zero indication of whether or not your opponent has used it up or not… On top of that, now there needs to be a visual indication the player even has it, although this wouldn’t be hard to implement given the slightest effort, such as a small ‘thrust’ icon over their gamertag when you target them, but yeah… outside of destroying map design lack of feedback or prediction is the largest contributor to making SAs and AAs so crappy to play against.

15

> 2535447940912902;11:
> > 2533274844542951;1:
> > Maybe the pick-ups could look like parts of Spartan armour that can be picked up and applied to your suit, giving you specific enhanced mobilities and once applied, other players can see you are wearing it and know to watch out for it.
>
> I’m on board with this, but only if certain spartan abilities are left out (spartan charge and ground pound, namely).
>
> I’d much rather go back to the equipment from Halo 3 because it was simple and added an interesting complexity to encounters. It didn’t give too much of an advantage like the jet pack or armor lock (which I think was a mistake adding to Reach).
>
> Or better yet, how about we get nothing, like it was in CE and Halo 2? With the right environment and story, you don’t need all that extra -Yoink- to have fun. One of my favorite aspects of classic Halo is exploring -Yoink-, which is indeed possible without sprint and clamber.

I would love nothing more than no equipment or Spartan Abilities, but I’m trying to find balance for the split community and think realistically.

I doubt 343 would just scrap all their own input that they’ve had, and return to old Bungie’s, I’m guessing they’ll want to progress and develop some of their additions from H5.

It is possible though, H5 just followed the current fps trend of advanced mobility (COD AW & Titanfall) and maybe Infinite will follow the trend of “returning to your roots” or “boots on the ground” (COD WW2 & BF1). Although that’s over now, they’ll most likely be going for battle royal :wink:

Wish they’d look at other successful franschises for inspiration. Doom 2016 for example, they were able to revamp the game and make it new / next gen, whilst sticking to the core Doom fundamentals.

16

There’s no “debate” to be had–classic wins, hands down, every time. Numbers don’t lie.

For those who claim Halo needs to “evolve”, my question is: why? What proof do you have that sequels are better because they evolve and change core tenants of gameplay?

There are no examples you can give.

The most popular franchises make incremental changes, changes so small that the game is basically the same. Spartan abilities (including sprint) ruined Halo. This is not debatable.

343 needs to wake up and make Halo, Halo again.

17

I’m one of those people who’s fine with both gameplay styles, new and old. I would rather have it play like classic Halo, but if it plays similar to Halo 5 with spartan abilities, then I’m fine with that to.

18

Simply I’d rather the sprint just went away, I think Doom 2016 had a better solution for Halo…just increase the player base speed instead of adding a sprint that slows me down whenever I get shot at since being slowed down isn’t fun, is generally stressful when being pinned plus I’d don’t want to see Spartan Charge ever return and instead of ground pound…I’d rather just punch through walls like in Doom Eternal.

I get Halo needs to innovate but if there going to innovate then it needs to be done in a fun way but there are some good things that came from Halo 5 that I don’t mind like the ability to climb objects, that was even seen in Doom 16, that’s something I’d like to see carry over into Infinite.

As for Spartan abilities…I’d rather they go back to Halo 3 for pickups since I’d rather fight for my items because it felt more rewarding to put my bubble shield, I know I keep mentioning this but Doom 16 felt more like Halo than H5 did because it felt like a proper arena shooter while H5 felt just much like a twitch shooter so I really hope Infinite goes back to it’s roots.

19

> 2533274808538326;2:
> Just disable them for certain playlists in multiplayer. Leave us unchained in campaign and firefight (if there is one) or any other PvE mode.
>
> For sprint though I’d rather we keep the gun up and just suffer an accuracy penalty or something, that or just bump the base movement speed instead and cut sprint due to it now being unnecessary.

Good idea, but there’s a few things I’d like to ask you to clarify with this concept.
1.) How would Active Camo and Overshield function with these abilities being pick ups? Are they also pick ups? If so, it seems that these are much more valuable during competitive play than sprint.
2.) Are these items single use? (Probably not, but it makes kind of an impact in the next point)
3.) Upon death, are other players able to pick up these abilities? If so, and if they are not single use, I see Infinite’s multiplayer being a scramble for the movement abilities off of someone’s corpse.

20

I’m happy there are a lot of people in favour of Classic Halo.

I only really play H3 Team Hardcore, so for me personally, I’d want a minimalistic and high-skill driven game.

I think the thing that made H3 so great is that a lot the gameplay’s immense depth came by accident and through years of play.

It managed to be complex and simple at the same time. Easy to pick up, hard to master.

This is is a very hard think to replicate purposefully.