Competitive v casual fairness

Games Other Halo
1

Now that Kevin Franklin and Frankie O’Connor et al have confirmed what the approximate settings for the Ranked play list will be,leave the existing Halo 4 as it is for the causal play lists.

The ranked play lists will include the following and will initially be Slayer, KOTH, CTF & Extraction:

  • 4 vs 4
  • Pre-set game loadouts
  • Forced respawn timers
  • No instant respawn
  • Ordnance on re-supply timers
  • Join-in-progress off
  • No split-screen play
  • Friendly fire on
  • Max party size 4 with big party matching enforced
  • No guests allowed

As the competitive players are getting what they have wanted, for the love of God or atheists or whatever, leave Halo 4 as it currently is in Slayer BTB, CTF, KOTH, Dominion etc etc as it is. Yes, do something about the BS but, everything else can stay as it is now. The DMR, BR, LR, AC and anything else is fine for the causal play lists.

Why force changes on the casuals when the competitive players will have exactly (or almost exactly) what they want in their own play lists. It is not fair for the competitive players to also force changes on causals with various weapons, load outs, JIP, instant re spawn, DMR, AC or whatever freaking else. To do so,is just allowing competitive players to get their own way in both play lists, ie ranked and social and, that is just wrong. If a ranked/competitive player comes to visits the causal play lists (if such a thing ever happens) such a player should expect to find the causal play list as it currently is with the weapons (other than BS), AAs, load outs and everything else untouched and still as they are now. Don;y like it, tough. That’s why there is two (going to be) lists, ranked v causal.

For example, the two separate settings for the DMR and anything else is possible. You can have a nerfed DMR for the ranked list and the existing DMR for the casual list. You can have a changed AC pickup in the ranked list but leave the AC as a load out in the causal list. Shot guns, SR, RL etc are to be timed set placed items on the map in the ranked lists but are fine as are as Ordnance drops and placed items on teh map for teh causal lists. JIP and Instant Respawn is fine for teh causal play list but has no place in teh ranked list.And so on…

Please be fair, let there be a true ranked play list with the settings as outlined by Kevin Franklin and let the existing settings be for the casual lists. Fair is fair…don’t take the fun out of the causal lists. The ranked lists will be fun, don’t get me wrong. What I mean is by fun is the settings, the causal lists don’t need tweaking to suit the ranked players and vice versa.

Cheers

2

Where is it stated we are getting a ranked playlist? And will there be a skill rank or no? Still only on waypoint? And I agree with everything but I disagree with your views on the dmr imo it should be nerfed in the casuals list also. But hey thats my opinion. I think this will be great for halo it will be like halo 3. Catering to the casuals and the die hards.

3

Here is the link:

Announcement

4

People complain about JIP but theres no way in hell I would play a playlist with no JIP and no large punishment for quitting. 90% of games would just be ruined like Reach.

5

> Where is it stated we are getting a ranked playlist? And will there be a skill rank or no? Still only on waypoint? And I agree with everything but I disagree with your views on the dmr imo it should be nerfed in the casuals list also. But hey thats my opinion. I think this will be great for halo it will be like halo 3. Catering to the casuals and the die hards.

I posted teh link above.

Unfortunately, as yet, no visible in-lobby game or whatever rank but who knows in the future. KF & KO both mentioned that further competitive changes will be coming throughout this year. So, teh April launch of the ranked lists will not be the end product.

I can live withe the DMR as is but can live with it being altered too. My overall point is, the existing settings do not have to be overhauled as they will be for the ranked list for causals too.

I am a causal player. I didn’t get into the ranked thing for Halo 3 as Halo Reach was my first Halo game and I only played a handful of Halo 3 games in early 2011. However, I will be attempting the ranked lists just to see what its all about and actually find out how horrible I really am at hardcore Halo :slight_smile: And, after I have been battered and bruised and handed my Yoink to me time and time again, I can breath a sigh of relief and head back to the causal lists :slight_smile:

6

> People complain about JIP but theres no way in hell I would play a playlist with no JIP and no large punishment for quitting. 90% of games would just be ruined like Reach.

Hi,

For the casual play lists, JIP and instant re-spawn will stay and that’s a good thing.

On the other hand, in the Ranked lists JIP and IR will not exist and that’s a good thing too. JIP & IR ruin competitive ranked play. Players that quit a ranked game will be punished I am sure. Removing JIP and IR will allow for Exterminations to happen again. In the ranked list, CTF for example, having a timed re-spawn will allow the team that kills several players on the opposing team an advantage for five seconds to take advantage of moving the flag, controlling the map and so on and that’s part of what competitive play is about.

For us casuals though, when we die, we want to get straight back into the action. We want someone to be able to JIP if someone on our team quits. This is a good thing but really has no place in ranked play.

Cheers

7

They really need to join players based on skill, this was a match from yesterday in ctf. Me and one teammate combined to go 66-2, that’s not fun for either team, nobody went afk on their team or quit, which I give them respect for. However it shows how the lack of skill based lobbies can make the game not fun for casuals or more competitive players.
https://app.halowaypoint.com/en-us/#Halo4/itsfatherandson/wargames/match-93822c7a99d5a391

Their teams k/d was -73, yet they would have been penalized for quitting out of a lopsided game that should have never been lobbied, as would have anyone that would have joined this game in progress if someone had quit.

8

no.

dmr needs to be nerfed all the way around. the TU should apply to both lists. other than that good post.

9

> They really need to join players based on skill, this was a match from yesterday in ctf. Me and one teammate combined to go 66-2, that’s not fun for either team, nobody went afk on their team or quit, which I give them respect for. However it shows how the lack of skill based lobbies can make the game not fun for casuals or more competitive players.
> https://app.halowaypoint.com/en-us/#Halo4/itsfatherandson/wargames/match-93822c7a99d5a391
>
> Their teams k/d was -73, yet they would have been penalized for quitting out of a lopsided game that should have never been lobbied, as would have anyone that would have joined this game in progress if someone had quit.

I agree that the mentioned game would not have been fun. Yes, causal lists still need TruSkill ranking but I’m not sure how to make it better.

10

> no.
>
> dmr needs to be nerfed all the way around. the TU should apply to both lists. other than that good post.

Thanks!

As stated above, I can live with the DMR as is but could also live with it slightly altered.

Cheers

11

From my understanding of the post about the competitive playlist, no other playlist will be changed… They are adding a playlist for true competitive players-a playlist to replace MLG… It is not a change to the entire game… It’s the addition of a single playlist… That’s all

12

A game built on the foundations of arena shooters should be designed with competitive gaming in mind, not the other way around. The fact that they had to add in new playlists just to keep the competitive community in check is completely ridiculous.

What happened to Halo? It started out great. Everything was built based on competition in mind: the maps had smooth flow and strategic vantage points; gameplay was simple, paced, and allowed for the smarter and better player to win 99% of the time; communities formed and manipulated the game’s design to create a casual gamestyle, not the other way around.

All of the sudden, with the ever-important demand for innovation and originality in order to keep Halo a AAA title, it’s the other way around. It’s a game originally built for competitive play, with a whole bunch of useless add-ons and gimmicks in order to attract newer customers. Now it is a game designed with the casual in mind, and the competitive community now has to work its way around it. Competitive play is just an afterthought at this point, and this is apparent by the fact that they have to add new playlists just to stop people from complaining. Does no one see something wrong with this? Is the irony of this situation lost on all of you?

This is just a thought, but maybe, instead of implementing gimmicks for the sake of it, they should instead focus on fixing the steadily obscure core gameplay of Halo.