Competitive Oxymoron

An observation regarding custom loadouts for weapon and player spawns.

First we had complaints in Halo 3 about AR starts and the lack of a BR/DMR for player weapon spawns.

Now we have complaints about custom loadouts for weapons with Reach & Halo 4.

That is an oxymoron if ever I have seen one. So the community complains when we don’t spawn with the weapon we want, then we complain contradicting ourselves now that we choose the weapons we spawn with.

Well which is it? I’ll just leave the community with that observation…

-Edit- There is very little difference gameplay or encounter wise as differing weapons are available off map pickups, dead body pickups and random encounters you have with enemies and what they are carrying at that specific encounter time.

All custom loadouts achieve is saving you having to traverse the map for the weapon you want to spawn with any how. Also power weapons will not be available in custom loadouts. So isn’t that a marked improvement by 343i?

Well, as far as I’m concerned the weapon load out is not an issue. I agree with you, although we’re not one hundred percent sure on its mechanics. I think it is going to be a good addidtion to Halo.

I don’t agree with AAs being in the loadouts, that is all. I would love them ad pickups creates more focal points on the map ect. And removes some unblanace. But, hopefully 343 do what they said they would and make it fair.

Screw the angry competitive players! I’m gonna create some new gametypes with altered options and Loadouts and invite everyone in Australian and New Zealand to come play and test them.

Peoples(at least mine) main concern with loadouts are the armor abilities. Things like camo and jetpack should not be something players can spawn with.

I also fear the weapon balance is going to change with the concept of loadouts. I would have had no problem being able to choose my starting weapon(between weapons like BR and AR) in Halo 3, but I fear weapons like the AR are going to get a significant boost in power for players that want to be able to use that in their loadout for Halo 4.

I completely agree with you. They would never allow you to spawn with power weapons. As long as load outs are kept to the base weapons and not power weapons, then I have no problems with it.

I would prefer armour abilities on the maps rather than in loadouts but it’s not a big deal. I’m sure they’ll have classic playlists and things of the like anyways.

I see where some of them are coming from. just look at reach…

it’s like saying you trust your girlfriend after she cheated on you with your cousin.

I guess I’m a trusting individual lolol

> An observation regarding custom loadouts for weapon and player spawns.
>
> First we had complaints in Halo 3 about AR starts and the lack of a BR/DMR for player weapon spawns.
>
> Now we have complaints about custom loadouts for weapons with Reach & Halo 4.
>
> That is an oxymoron if ever I have seen one. So the community complains when we don’t spawn with the weapon we want, then we complain contradicting ourselves now that we choose the weapons we spawn with.
>
> Well which is it? I’ll just leave the community with that observation…
>
> -Edit- There is very little difference gameplay or encounter wise as differing weapons are available off map pickups, dead body pickups and random encounters you have with enemies and what they are carrying at that specific encounter time.
>
> All custom loadouts achieve is saving you having to traverse the map for the weapon you want to spawn with any how. Also power weapons will not be available in custom loadouts. So isn’t that a marked improvement by 343i?

There is blatant misunderstanding in this thread.

You consider the idea of competitive gameplay desired by individuals in the community an oxymoron because they wanted BR starts in previous instalments and now they hate custom LO’s?

This is in no way an oxymoron. You don’t understand what the competitive community desires clearly. They desire these 4 things;

  1. A symmetrical, arena sized map.
  2. Identical loadout starts among all players.
  3. ‘Fight-for-control’ gameplay.
  4. Praised/punished performance.

You simply misunderstand the demands of the try-hards. Its not about starting with my BR, I want all players to have the same thing, with no cammo or jetpack, if I’m only using sprint.

I’m going to put in that I don’t necessarily agree with that logic, but that’s the dea and I hope I clarified. :slight_smile:

Cheers for the best Halo 4 possible,

ANK

I think you’re witnessing a split community Ozzy, or maybe you’re just plain right about our mood swings lol.

Oxymoron doesn’t mean what you think it means. It’s two contradictory terms placed beside each other, like jumbo-shrimp, smelly perfume, or good Bieber song. Just sayin’.

Anyway, the Halo community always manages to hate something. I remember back when Guardian was considered a terrible map in Halo 3, but now some people would name their first-born Frankie just to get it back. Good times.

How is that an oxymoron? We want to spawn with a utility weapon, and we want everyone to spawn equally.

If players do not enter the battlefield EQUAL then H4 MP = FAIL.

> Well, as far as I’m concerned the weapon load out is not an issue. I agree with you, although we’re not one hundred percent sure on its mechanics. I think it is going to be a good addidtion to Halo.
>
> I don’t agree with AAs being in the loadouts, that is all. I would love them ad pickups creates more focal points on the map ect. And removes some unblanace. But, hopefully 343 do what they said they would and make it fair.

I think this is sort of a good idea. but what happens when there are 3-4 AA’s on a map… and one team gets them all? then they would just dominate and it would turn halo into a game about getting the AA’s first, not actually confronting your enemy head on, which is what i enjoy at the beginning of any halo game. (H2, H3, H:R)- i have CE just haven’t ever play MP on it

  1. Oxymoron is just a contradiction of terms and that’s what my original post states from observation over the years.

  2. I understand what competitive wants are, I don’t agree with about 40% of it but I understand it.

  3. Posters talk about balance then champion abilities to be map pickups. Imagine the imbalance of only one player having an armour ability until another map spawned ability shows up. That is unbalanced gameplay more so than just having abilities in the loadouts available for all players.

  4. So what we have differing abilities? Once again take the symmetrical small map example. Blue have forerunner vision map spawn and Red have camo map spawn. The teams are 4v4. So 1 player from each team now has a differing armour ability, what’s the difference there between map spawn or loadout? Nothing, just map traversal and the chances of who encounters who with what weapon/ability. Further by having loadouts for all players that is in fact more balanced that just 2 map spawns of abilities.

  5. There is nothing unbalanced about having loadouts that vary between players. Players choose what weapons to go for and pickup from map spawns or dead bodies. The same would apply if you made abilities map spawn or loadouts, you still make the choice about what to go for. So in reality once again just having them as loadouts increases the player engagements, makes for faster gameplay and is really no different to choosing which map spawn to run to vs. choosing a loadout, it just saves time and evens the choices out for everybody.

  6. I’m more than happy to choose my spawning weapon set and ability to then competitively fight my enemy who chose their preferred base loadout weapons and abilities matching their play style. I love the variety and expansion of rock, paper & scissors that introduces. I also love taking my weapon and skill set up again others weapon and skill sets. After all if you’re that skilled shouldn’t you be able to counter better if you have the choice of loadout?

  7. Having no abilities, limited weapons and limited map spawns is repetitive and linear gameplay I just don’t enjoy. This is the main reason playlist populations of MLG vs standard matchmaking are weighted to “standard settings”.

Yeah, the competitive “community” is a little silly sometimes.

> How is that an oxymoron? We want to spawn with a utility weapon, and we want everyone to spawn equally.

Ok say you get BR/DMR as base spawn everytime and no abilities. What you’re not factoring in is play style. So a close quarters player is skilled with shotgun and radar, where’s their preference being equal to their skills?

What of the AR skilled players that stealth until you’re too close with your BR/DMR to win a fight, how are they catered for?

The list of player/skill/weapon/ability variables is far larger than the above examples but you get the idea. Having custom loadouts of base weapons/abilities with map spawns for power weapons/abilities is in my opinion one of the most balanced ways to play while reducing repetitive traversing of maps and putting players back into the action with how they want to play the game.

Remember playlists and settings will provide a wide variety of no abilities, with abilities, with loadouts, no loadouts etc. I think we’ll all be catered for but I just wanted to point out some irrational community group mentalities.

> Oxymoron doesn’t mean what you think it means. It’s two contradictory terms placed beside each other, like jumbo-shrimp, smelly perfume, or good Bieber song. Just sayin’.

how about content halo fan?

> I think you’re witnessing a split community Ozzy, or maybe you’re just plain right about our mood swings lol.

Seems to be fracturing further into about 3-5 sub-communities these days. I’m still confident 343i have the right game engine, customisation and playlists to make over 90-95% of us happy with how we choose to play the game.

Ozzy -

You are mistaking the claims the competitive community was making. Back in Halo 3, the complaints were that the Halo 3 AR promoted rushing forward and beating the opponent down. It promoted stale, slow, and monotonous gameplay.

The complaints with loadouts, however, have little to nothing to do with the strength of the weapons within the loadout. The plight the competitive community has with loadouts is that they allow for players to spawn on unequal footing thus introducing an element of imbalance.

If loadouts can be done correctly, though, they can improve Halo’s formula.

> If loadouts can be done correctly, though, they can improve Halo’s formula.

…they can be done correctly! You have the options to select your starting weapons and AA!

The only way they can improve Loadouts to to give the ability to alter each individuel Loadouts stats like health, shields, resistance, melee, etc.

> > If loadouts can be done correctly, though, they can improve Halo’s formula.
>
> …they can be done correctly! You have the options to select your starting weapons and AA!
>
> The only way they can improve Loadouts to to give the ability to alter each individuel Loadouts stats like health, shields, resistance, melee, etc.

Sure you can do whatever you want in a custom game, but if there are ranked playlists with terrible loadouts, the competitive players are forced out of their only playlist(s) even though it is supposed to be catered to them.