No its people like you that have killed halo. Yes halo is a game where you have fun but you also play competitive. If you just to have fun get a friend and play some griffball or infection.
> 2533274812650916;10:
> Halo had 6 years of being based strictly around casual gameplay and we saw our sharpest declines in population ever.
>
> This forum not only is blatantly ignorant when it comes to competitive gameplay, many of you are PROUDLY ignorant. You refuse to listen to any intellectual competitive argument and instead throw all competitive players into this “MLG Try hard, KD ratio loving” stereotype that is honestly fairly ridiculous.
>
> It seems you guys believe a fellow Halo fan is entitled to whatever opinion they want… so long as it isn’t one that promotes competitive Halo.
>
> I’ve witnessed dozens of threads similar to this get so much support its downright troubling.
>
> What if I told you competitive want the same things you guys do? What if I told you the competitive crowd was asking for a balanced sandbox as far back as Halo 2? What if I told you the competitive crowd has no qualms against a compelling campaign, splitscreen, Grifball, infection, and the like? Would any of you believe me? Not many of you.
>
> What if I told you that the highest levels of competitive Halo, the players essentially just want a balanced arena shooter? You know, the thing that Halo was for nearly a decade before Reach and 4 tried to out-Call of Duty Call of Duty itself.
>
> Competitive Halo didn’t kill Halo. Halo isn’t dead. If you are curious as to why many people turned away from Halo, perhaps you should look at the games that turned away more fans than any other Halo game. I’m talking about Reach, Halo 4, and, for other reasons, MCC.
>
> Ignorance is OK to a certain degree. Wilfully remaining ignorant and relying on stereotypes to form your opinions just makes you look as ridiculous as you sound.
You can’t bring MCC into the discussion. It failed because 343i failed. As for Reach and 4, you are right. I don’t think that you can look at those games though and say they failed because they lack a ranking system though. They failed for a lot of other reasons. IMO a ranking system has some merits, but applying it to the entire game without giving people the ability to play classic gametypes outside of ranked is a bad idea. IMO there should be three ranked playlists, HCS, Team Slayer, and FFA. All other playlists should be un-ranked. There should also be a “social” option available for all ranked playlists (Unranked FFA, Unranked Team Slayer, and Unranked Team Objective)
I think it’s unfair for you to say that games like Reach turned away more fans than any other. I’m no fan of Reach, don’t get me wrong, it did A LOT wrong, but it retained more people than Halo 5 has. Halo 5 (excluding from MCC) is the second fastest population drop off in the series. So from your own logic would that mean competitive play scared off those players? I don’t think so. I think that the lack of content (still) and options, pared with a horrible microtransaction scheme and the worst campaign in the series is what did that. Likewise, I don’t think that Halo 4 being exclusively social scared off that many people either. It was things like loadouts that did that, and loadouts aren’t inherently social. Some of the most competitive games have loadouts.
The problem, IMO, is that both Halo 4 and Halo 5 lack what made Halo special back in the day. Halo doesn’t have loadouts or perks just as much as it doesn’t have unlimited sprint, thrusters, Spartan Charge, and exclusive ranking. 343i have to learn that. Halo used to be fun to play, not a chore like Halo 5. You were able to play with your friends and have fun because your rank wasn’t determined on how good or bad they were. You could have people over to your house and screw around with 4 people on split screen mobbing in BTB. The lack of the ability to do that is why Halo 5 is failing. It has nothing to do with it having ranking or not.
Competitive isn’t killing halo. It’s the community.
People know 343 is a boring af. Bungie was really involved with it’s fans and their games showed it. For 343 to ignore everything that people want in this game is mainly why people don’t play halo anymore… because it isn’t as fun as it used to be.
> 2533274812650916;10:
> Halo had 6 years of being based strictly around casual gameplay and we saw our sharpest declines in population ever.
>
> This forum not only is blatantly ignorant when it comes to competitive gameplay, many of you are PROUDLY ignorant. You refuse to listen to any intellectual competitive argument and instead throw all competitive players into this “MLG Try hard, KD ratio loving” stereotype that is honestly fairly ridiculous.
>
> It seems you guys believe a fellow Halo fan is entitled to whatever opinion they want… so long as it isn’t one that promotes competitive Halo.
>
> I’ve witnessed dozens of threads similar to this get so much support its downright troubling.
>
> What if I told you competitive want the same things you guys do? What if I told you the competitive crowd was asking for a balanced sandbox as far back as Halo 2? What if I told you the competitive crowd has no qualms against a compelling campaign, splitscreen, Grifball, infection, and the like? Would any of you believe me? Not many of you.
>
> What if I told you that the highest levels of competitive Halo, the players essentially just want a balanced arena shooter? You know, the thing that Halo was for nearly a decade before Reach and 4 tried to out-Call of Duty Call of Duty itself.
>
> Competitive Halo didn’t kill Halo. Halo isn’t dead. If you are curious as to why many people turned away from Halo, perhaps you should look at the games that turned away more fans than any other Halo game. I’m talking about Reach, Halo 4, and, for other reasons, MCC.
>
> Ignorance is OK to a certain degree. Wilfully remaining ignorant and relying on stereotypes to form your opinions just makes you look as ridiculous as you sound.
While scolding us for being ignorant and condescending, you came across pretty ignorant and condescending. Why is halo on the brink of death then? Dont tell me simply because of age, or because Halo 4 drove everyone off, because CoD has been around just as long, and has experienced worse rough patches, and it continues to thrive (to a certain extent). Halo 5 takes itself too seriously. So does this community. Every gun has ridiculous range to promote 343’s skill based gameplay. Autos were made to be crushed. CQC is dead in this game, and there’s no argument against that. This is proven by the decease in radar range, even though the player can move faster. Competitive is killing Halo because they want skill to define the quality of your experience, rather than letting fun do so.
> 2533274877132092;164:
> > 2533274812650916;10:
> > Halo had 6 years of being based strictly around casual gameplay and we saw our sharpest declines in population ever.
> >
> > This forum not only is blatantly ignorant when it comes to competitive gameplay, many of you are PROUDLY ignorant. You refuse to listen to any intellectual competitive argument and instead throw all competitive players into this “MLG Try hard, KD ratio loving” stereotype that is honestly fairly ridiculous.
> >
> > It seems you guys believe a fellow Halo fan is entitled to whatever opinion they want… so long as it isn’t one that promotes competitive Halo.
> >
> > I’ve witnessed dozens of threads similar to this get so much support its downright troubling.
> >
> > What if I told you competitive want the same things you guys do? What if I told you the competitive crowd was asking for a balanced sandbox as far back as Halo 2? What if I told you the competitive crowd has no qualms against a compelling campaign, splitscreen, Grifball, infection, and the like? Would any of you believe me? Not many of you.
> >
> > What if I told you that the highest levels of competitive Halo, the players essentially just want a balanced arena shooter? You know, the thing that Halo was for nearly a decade before Reach and 4 tried to out-Call of Duty Call of Duty itself.
> >
> > Competitive Halo didn’t kill Halo. Halo isn’t dead. If you are curious as to why many people turned away from Halo, perhaps you should look at the games that turned away more fans than any other Halo game. I’m talking about Reach, Halo 4, and, for other reasons, MCC.
> >
> > Ignorance is OK to a certain degree. Wilfully remaining ignorant and relying on stereotypes to form your opinions just makes you look as ridiculous as you sound.
>
>
> While scolding us for being ignorant and condescending, you came across pretty ignorant and condescending. Why is halo on the brink of death then? Dont tell me simply because of age, or because Halo 4 drove everyone off, because CoD has been around just as long, and has experienced worse rough patches, and it continues to thrive (to a certain extent). Halo 5 takes itself too seriously. So does this community. Every gun has ridiculous range to promote 343’s skill based gameplay. Autos were made to be crushed. CQC is dead in this game, and there’s no argument against that. This is proven by the decease in radar range, even though the player can move faster. Competitive is killing Halo because they want skill to define the quality of your experience, rather than letting fun do so.
Because Reach, and further then H4, completely crushed the halo formula and drove away many long time fans. CQC isn’t dead in this game what are you even talking about in this post? Just cause you can’t sprint at enemies in a straight line and punch them doesn’t mean CQC is dead.
I sort of agree but there are still fun channels out there, some have just moved on because they don’t like Halo 5, (which is not that many) or they’ve moved on to other priorities.
Also, I would say that Overwatch isn’t the best example of social trupting competitive. It has a limited number of Playlists so people will get bored after a couple of months. I’ve played it and I’ll say it’s pretty amazing, but the limits on Playlists disappointed me and I know I won’t be playing it enough, so I’m waiting for the price drop, my buddy already has it so I play it now and then.
Casuals are not a reliable group to build a franchise around because they wont stick with the game doing it for the core fans was the ideal way and has worked out for them as halo still has its extreme fans, making halo competitive was the best thing ut could have dine after h4.
I think we should separate the players who want to play for competition and casual (like me) because did not play in the same category. I mainly play in the evening after work for fun and without fuss, whether I win or lose it does not matter.
Yeah they have like no casual game modes
> 2535466493182576;161:
> No its people like you that have killed halo. Yes halo is a game where you have fun but you also play competitive. If you just to have fun get a friend and play some griffball or infection.
Or go back to having social playlists because people might want to play slayer or objective for example but nit feel up to playing their best that day and don’t want statrack. Griffball and infection still track stats which has mean people even take them serious because they don’t want to hurt their precious KDR
> 2533274923746840;3:
> wouldn’t the competitive tryhard -Yoink- crappers go into the casual section anyway because… well because their -Yoinks!-. Take people who farm in warzone for example. Warzone used to be heaps fun and I played that non-stop. But now it’s just. the fun died out because of people. People love to ruin the fun in games for casuals like me. Heck the whole ranking thing in halo 5 with gold and diamonds has turned me into someone I dont wanna be (competitive) and I hate it. I 100% agree with OP. These MLG and casual sections would be nice to have. Halo 5 is just way too competitive. I never noticed any competitiveness in halo reach or 4.(didn’t play CE, 2 or 3 enough to care about their multiplayers) But in halo 5 it’s just… damn. And yet halo 5 is still my favorite game. And probably always will be.
>
> PS. no one’s going to agree with me when I spread my OPINION here but I think all ranked playlists should become social as of now. No more competing for golds or onyx. Let’s make it fun again. Or at least have the ranked section then social section. Cause like I said these ranks are making me be someone I don’t wanna be. I get a gold 5 after qualifying in breakout then get all aggressive and crap just to get that gold 6 up to a platinum but go down to a gold 5 and then 4. Getting super rage and then realizing wow this isn’t me I play for fun like I used to. I shouldn’t care
I agree about warzone I use to love it but dang now with all the farming I’m scared to go in without a full fireteam.
halo is reborn thanks to the competitive
> 2533274907632250;172:
> halo is reborn thanks to the competitive
I actually think you might be on to something. I’ve noticed that Halo 5 is more played than 4 was, primarily because more people are giving feedback than they were for 4, granted half of it is “Why No Falcon in MoR?!?!?!?!?!?” and “Remove Sprint/343 from Halo 6” ect.
> 2535471109694535;173:
> > 2533274907632250;172:
> > halo is reborn thanks to the competitive
>
>
> I actually think you might be on to something. I’ve noticed that Halo 5 is more played than 4 was, primarily because more people are giving feedback than they were for 4, granted half of it is “Why No Falcon in MoR?!?!?!?!?!?” and “Remove Sprint/343 from Halo 6” ect.
True thats all i see on these forums oh and you can’t forget the ,“Halo 5 sucks because i suck at it” forums and also the “Halo 5 is the lowest selling game in the series.”
Not a multiplayer fan at best of times being a campaign nut, (I’m the shy retiring type), however competitiveness doesn’t really strike me as the issue. The majority of multiplayer is competitive by its very nature.
I reckon its simply time to look at the nature of the multiplayer experience, think of new ways to engage groups online. I think the kernel of a good idea was there in spartan ops. Forming a fireteam, being set missions with achievable goals and rewards may suit a large contingent of casual players. Missions change and progress in difficulty as your fireteam progresses in experience kinda thing.
Competitive arenas with options for Spartan abilities ON or OFF dependent on gaming preference, open arenas with fun playlists. Arenas with more effective ability filters where you’re guaranteed to play with people on a more level playing field. The point I’m hoping to make is that there are as many different types of multiplayer looking for different multiplayer experiences as there are grains of sand. Catering for everyone is a near statistical impossibility, but its surely not outwith the wit of the developers to create a wider, more even spread of such experiences.
Competition is just fine, but there are surely other achievable ways of getting together with folks out there to have a team or collective gaming experience?
> 2533274923746840;3:
> wouldn’t the competitive tryhard -Yoink- crappers go into the casual section anyway because… well because their -Yoinks!-. Take people who farm in warzone for example. Warzone used to be heaps fun and I played that non-stop. But now it’s just. the fun died out because of people. People love to ruin the fun in games for casuals like me. Heck the whole ranking thing in halo 5 with gold and diamonds has turned me into someone I dont wanna be (competitive) and I hate it. I 100% agree with OP. These MLG and casual sections would be nice to have. Halo 5 is just way too competitive. I never noticed any competitiveness in halo reach or 4.(didn’t play CE, 2 or 3 enough to care about their multiplayers) But in halo 5 it’s just… damn. And yet halo 5 is still my favorite game. And probably always will be.
>
> PS. no one’s going to agree with me when I spread my OPINION here but I think all ranked playlists should become social as of now. No more competing for golds or onyx. Let’s make it fun again. Or at least have the ranked section then social section. Cause like I said these ranks are making me be someone I don’t wanna be. I get a gold 5 after qualifying in breakout then get all aggressive and crap just to get that gold 6 up to a platinum but go down to a gold 5 and then 4. Getting super rage and then realizing wow this isn’t me I play for fun like I used to. I shouldn’t care
You know, I remember Bungie added a small comp section for Halo: Reach. It was a small section but that’s where most if not all the competitive players went. Then you had your standard social slayer and team games. Then you had your fun game types like rocket race, infection(nice they brought back but already getting old) Oddball(Really miss that one!) Juggernaut, and a bunch others that people came up with. Halo 5 has… Infection and a continuous rotating game type which I don’t know why it has to rotate. Pick a handful that people love and keep them on the list. it’s a -Yoinking!- tease is what it is. I too do not care for competition. It’s a game, a mindless fun way to kill time or hang with some buds. But whats this? No split-screen to speak off? Big mistake I say. Anyways, I don’t take competitive gaming seriously because it’s just a game. Yes it is obvious there are competitive players and casuals like you and myself. But share the wealth man. Casual players should be able to boot up the same game as a competitive player and have the option to play a social playlist or a ranked match. And I love SWAT. Though now it’s only ranked, I still play it. If I rank a low rank I don’t give a -Yoink- because I had a blast. So what if my ratio is bad. Don’t do anything for me in the real world. And your right. You shouldn’t care. Forget the rank you got. It doesn’t mean anything(arguably). Anyways, I hear ya man. I miss the social days of kicking back and having a laugh with your buds. I hope 343i brings more of the social and fun game types and less of the ranked/competitive -Yoink-.
> 2533274908131346;1:
> I remember back in the day when youtube channels were made just for halo because how much fun they have playing it and how everyone injoys it because it’s fun and simple, now day’s sense halo 4 came out and how much similar it looked to cod people start to loose interest and move on into new things. Halo back in the day had both competitiveness and casual fun gametypes in two different sections, now days halo is all about being sweaty and play on those hideous small looking maps. Every new game that is released and it’s about fun casual gameplay people go insane about it and play it non stop. For example, over watch have over 7 million registered accounts, wherever I go on social media I see someone is playing it or doing fan art for it because it’s a game for everyone! Just like how halo used to be. Halo is in no shape of being too focused on a competitive gameplay because it’s an exclusive game for a console that is barely selling well, you need to show how fun and simple the game is so that everyone can injoy it. Im not saying competitiveness in halo should go away, it’s been apart of halo sense ages but what I’m saying is they should do like they did in old halos where they put an mlg section for competitive players and a section for casuals and make the gameplay more simple and fun, not just completely ignore the fun aspects of the game and shove competitive gameplay into everyone’s throat like in halo 5 arenas. Wanna see how halo is so focused on competitive players and making everything for esport players? See my previous forum Lazy link
I agree. They need to not have tunnel vision on one or the other. They need a healthy balance of both. But that’s a little hard when you refuse to allow more playlists.
First people complain that casual Halo, like 4 and Reach, is killing Halo, then they complain that competitive Halo is killing it.
> 2533274800772611;162:
> > 2533274812650916;10:
> > Halo had 6 years of being based strictly around casual gameplay and we saw our sharpest declines in population ever.
> >
> > This forum not only is blatantly ignorant when it comes to competitive gameplay, many of you are PROUDLY ignorant. You refuse to listen to any intellectual competitive argument and instead throw all competitive players into this “MLG Try hard, KD ratio loving” stereotype that is honestly fairly ridiculous.
> >
> > It seems you guys believe a fellow Halo fan is entitled to whatever opinion they want… so long as it isn’t one that promotes competitive Halo.
> >
> > I’ve witnessed dozens of threads similar to this get so much support its downright troubling.
> >
> > What if I told you competitive want the same things you guys do? What if I told you the competitive crowd was asking for a balanced sandbox as far back as Halo 2? What if I told you the competitive crowd has no qualms against a compelling campaign, splitscreen, Grifball, infection, and the like? Would any of you believe me? Not many of you.
> >
> > What if I told you that the highest levels of competitive Halo, the players essentially just want a balanced arena shooter? You know, the thing that Halo was for nearly a decade before Reach and 4 tried to out-Call of Duty Call of Duty itself.
> >
> > Competitive Halo didn’t kill Halo. Halo isn’t dead. If you are curious as to why many people turned away from Halo, perhaps you should look at the games that turned away more fans than any other Halo game. I’m talking about Reach, Halo 4, and, for other reasons, MCC.
> >
> > Ignorance is OK to a certain degree. Wilfully remaining ignorant and relying on stereotypes to form your opinions just makes you look as ridiculous as you sound.
>
>
> You can’t bring MCC into the discussion. It failed because 343i failed. As for Reach and 4, you are right. I don’t think that you can look at those games though and say they failed because they lack a ranking system though. They failed for a lot of other reasons. IMO a ranking system has some merits, but applying it to the entire game without giving people the ability to play classic gametypes outside of ranked is a bad idea. IMO there should be three ranked playlists, HCS, Team Slayer, and FFA. All other playlists should be un-ranked. There should also be a “social” option available for all ranked playlists (Unranked FFA, Unranked Team Slayer, and Unranked Team Objective)
>
> I think it’s unfair for you to say that games like Reach turned away more fans than any other. I’m no fan of Reach, don’t get me wrong, it did A LOT wrong, but it retained more people than Halo 5 has. Halo 5 (excluding from MCC) is the second fastest population drop off in the series. So from your own logic would that mean competitive play scared off those players? I don’t think so. I think that the lack of content (still) and options, pared with a horrible microtransaction scheme and the worst campaign in the series is what did that. Likewise, I don’t think that Halo 4 being exclusively social scared off that many people either. It was things like loadouts that did that, and loadouts aren’t inherently social. Some of the most competitive games have loadouts.
>
> The problem, IMO, is that both Halo 4 and Halo 5 lack what made Halo special back in the day. Halo doesn’t have loadouts or perks just as much as it doesn’t have unlimited sprint, thrusters, Spartan Charge, and exclusive ranking. 343i have to learn that. Halo used to be fun to play, not a chore like Halo 5. You were able to play with your friends and have fun because your rank wasn’t determined on how good or bad they were. You could have people over to your house and screw around with 4 people on split screen mobbing in BTB. The lack of the ability to do that is why Halo 5 is failing. It has nothing to do with it having ranking or not.
To be fair, I did say that MCC drove people away for other reasons.
I agree with most of what you said. I am not pretending Halo 5 is the savior of Halo. It is only a step in the right direction towards a balanced arena shooter. But I dont think there’s a single person out there who can deny they focused on that goal to a fault. Removing splitscreen supposedly just to maintain a constant 60 FPS? Yeah. Way over the top on that one. Because Bending Taco7292p and his 3 guests don’t care what the FPS is. They just want to have fun on a Halo game.
But I also don’t think Halo Reach and 4 failed because of a lack of an adequate ranking system and the absence of one, respectively. Ranking systems are, amazingly enough, almost useless at the HIGHEST levels of play. Pros scrim in customs. The only people who will ever give them a run for their money in a 4v4 setting, well, they already know them. Ranking systems are for everyone else basically. I’m not saying pros don’t like ranks. Because I think everyone of us likes to feel that satisfaction whether we like it or not.
> 2533274877132092;164:
> > 2533274812650916;10:
> > Halo had 6 years of being based strictly around casual gameplay and we saw our sharpest declines in population ever.
> >
> > This forum not only is blatantly ignorant when it comes to competitive gameplay, many of you are PROUDLY ignorant. You refuse to listen to any intellectual competitive argument and instead throw all competitive players into this “MLG Try hard, KD ratio loving” stereotype that is honestly fairly ridiculous.
> >
> > It seems you guys believe a fellow Halo fan is entitled to whatever opinion they want… so long as it isn’t one that promotes competitive Halo.
> >
> > I’ve witnessed dozens of threads similar to this get so much support its downright troubling.
> >
> > What if I told you competitive want the same things you guys do? What if I told you the competitive crowd was asking for a balanced sandbox as far back as Halo 2? What if I told you the competitive crowd has no qualms against a compelling campaign, splitscreen, Grifball, infection, and the like? Would any of you believe me? Not many of you.
> >
> > What if I told you that the highest levels of competitive Halo, the players essentially just want a balanced arena shooter? You know, the thing that Halo was for nearly a decade before Reach and 4 tried to out-Call of Duty Call of Duty itself.
> >
> > Competitive Halo didn’t kill Halo. Halo isn’t dead. If you are curious as to why many people turned away from Halo, perhaps you should look at the games that turned away more fans than any other Halo game. I’m talking about Reach, Halo 4, and, for other reasons, MCC.
> >
> > Ignorance is OK to a certain degree. Wilfully remaining ignorant and relying on stereotypes to form your opinions just makes you look as ridiculous as you sound.
>
>
> While scolding us for being ignorant and condescending, you came across pretty ignorant and condescending. Why is halo on the brink of death then? Dont tell me simply because of age, or because Halo 4 drove everyone off, because CoD has been around just as long, and has experienced worse rough patches, and it continues to thrive (to a certain extent). Halo 5 takes itself too seriously. So does this community. Every gun has ridiculous range to promote 343’s skill based gameplay. Autos were made to be crushed. CQC is dead in this game, and there’s no argument against that. This is proven by the decease in radar range, even though the player can move faster. Competitive is killing Halo because they want skill to define the quality of your experience, rather than letting fun do so.
I never once claimed that Halo was on the brink of death. Nor did I ever say it was because of age or strictly because of Halo 4. You misunderstand my argument entirely which kind of highlights the point of my post.
The only reason I came across as condescending is that this forum legitimately does not understand competitive mindset, desires, opinions, and history. I dont expect people to know all of that. Especially if they don’t care. But what bothers me is too many PRETEND to know and it bothers me. It should bother anyone when someone is relying on a stereotype of a group of people to form their opinions.
I can’t exactly be ignorant of casuals given the fact that I don’t really play competitively anymore. The most I do is strive for a certain rank (onyx/champion). Other than that, you can find me in warzone, alone, without a mic or playing the campaign. Not exactly the apex of competition.