Competitive killed halo

Games Halo 5: Guardians
141

YES AND THAT’S THE BOTTOMLINE.

Halo was originally a more casual game that could be made competetive…however it’s very difficult to do the reverse.

Take H3…the gameplay was balanced and was fun for all, Vets and Newbies alike. then MLG was added to the game and players began to take more interest in playing competitive games with limited weaponry for fair matches like CTF with only Plasma pistols, Carbines, BRs, and the od rocket or 2 depending on maps. Maps were even built on foundry to accommodate. Even with this players could pick and choose their roles in the community, play casual and just chill out in games, play ranked to earn skill and unlock armours and improve KD or simply to improve their ranking badge. Players would forge maps for creative game types and etc.

Now we look at H5-G. Not even close to being a community here…when the game was released it was half a game and yes while we got forge in December…THAT DOESN’T COVER THE FACT THAT WE HAD TO WAIT A TOTAL OF 8 MONTHS FOR A COMPLETE GAME AFTER IT’S RELEASE…
Features that were a staple were removed…for next to no reason might I add…and while we were waiting for the free DLC or as I prefer to say as far as gametypes are concerned LATE features, we were forced to play the Competitive Game Style 343 had spent the majority of their time building. And while areas of it were decent, there were too many problems I found as the game now resembles COD…something Halo fans back in the day despised with a Passion…Myself one of them.

Now while reach did kill halo reach did dig the Competitive halo grave and H4 filed it in. H5G tried to Frankenstein it. I’m not saying change is a bad thing…Little tweaks hear and there aren’t too bad. However their focus was directed at one area of the community whioch cause a lack of features at lauch and is one of the major reasons that the game did so poorly at launch interms of initial sales.

What should have been released was a gmae with all areas covered and features added to each as the months went on rather than a heavily pushed PRO gaming attitude towards everything. Yes we have all the features NOW but it has taken months for other areas of the community to recover from this neglect on 343’s part.

142

> 2533274812650916;10:
> Halo had 6 years of being based strictly around casual gameplay and we saw our sharpest declines in population ever.
>
> This forum not only is blatantly ignorant when it comes to competitive gameplay, many of you are PROUDLY ignorant. You refuse to listen to any intellectual competitive argument and instead throw all competitive players into this “MLG Try hard, KD ratio loving” stereotype that is honestly fairly ridiculous.
>
> It seems you guys believe a fellow Halo fan is entitled to whatever opinion they want… so long as it isn’t one that promotes competitive Halo.
>
> I’ve witnessed dozens of threads similar to this get so much support its downright troubling.
>
> What if I told you competitive want the same things you guys do? What if I told you the competitive crowd was asking for a balanced sandbox as far back as Halo 2? What if I told you the competitive crowd has no qualms against a compelling campaign, splitscreen, Grifball, infection, and the like? Would any of you believe me? Not many of you.
>
> What if I told you that the highest levels of competitive Halo, the players essentially just want a balanced arena shooter? You know, the thing that Halo was for nearly a decade before Reach and 4 tried to out-Call of Duty Call of Duty itself.
>
> Competitive Halo didn’t kill Halo. Halo isn’t dead. If you are curious as to why many people turned away from Halo, perhaps you should look at the games that turned away more fans than any other Halo game. I’m talking about Reach, Halo 4, and, for other reasons, MCC.
>
> Ignorance is OK to a certain degree. Wilfully remaining ignorant and relying on stereotypes to form your opinions just makes you look as ridiculous as you sound.

Good post.

143

Halo has always been competitive. We all remember playing on couches over the past decade with our friends. We all know those epic matches with our friends when we were younger.

144

Ya i think the competition brought back halo

145

> 2533274879407634;2:
> I completely agree. They made a smart move and gave us all high hopes for them with CEA but when halo 4 came out almost every classic fan was gone… hell almost me. Now we barely see people play halo for how fun it is. Some people even said they were excited for MCC because all that fun can return with a clean slate. 343 dun -Yoinked!- it up and should have never turned halo into cod.

Halo 4 was 343’s first attempt at making a Halo game. The got the campaign right the multiplayer was wrong but the only thing Call Of Duty about it was Detailed Loadouts.
Otherwise Halo 4 was decent in terms of story and art direction.

146

were we not over all the hate? before you all speak atleast know what your speaking about and don’t bring up YouTube as if there arent youTubers that just do halo 5, because there are plenty.(NEXT ONLY FOR COMMENTERS NOT ORIGINAL POST CAUSE HE/SHE DIDNT SAY THIS) Next completely taking ranked out wouldn’t do great either they already made a competitive audience now you want them to scrap it say no this audience sucks the casual ones better, they would never in halo 5 take out competitiveness completely, maybe a social and ranked playlist but to just take out the competitive would be stupid.

147

Overwatch is boring because it’s too casual.

H5 went back to it’s roots and did a lot of stuff right in regards to simply improving the game from H4, which meant having a focus on the competitive aspects for Arena, back to equal starts, finely balanced weapon sandbox, spawning with a precision weapon and an automatic weapon, a focus on aiming well and strafing and 1v1 battles, I think all this really needed to happen.

I think what really needs to change though is the inclusion of a few Social Arena playlists, because Arena is -Yoink- fun but I think alot of people get stomped, lose rank and decide to go back to Warzone. Take the ranks out of the equation and it may inject some of the ‘playing (4v4 slayer) just for fun’ feel that the older halos had, maybe because the people who are sweating for the ranks (me) will be in the ranked playlist! But I would like to let my hair down occasionally, for sure.

I think a slightly slower TTK overall through weapon fire rates would also help things along. You kill and are killed SO fast in h5 compared to older Halos. Not only are perfect weapon TTK as fast as they’ve ever been excluding the H1 Magnum but the real factor here is AVERAGE TTK. Even with aim assist lowered, the hit detection and servers are -Yoink- smooth in this game and most weapons are pinpoint accurate hitscan with relatively generous bullet magnetism (not as bad as H4 thankfully), AVERAGE TTK is a significant percentage faster. Combined with the way you can fling yourself at double sprint speed quite easily with thruster and you have a game which can feel quite frantic and sweaty at times and may not be conducive to casual fun. I would at least love to test this theory in custom games if we could control weapon Rate of Fire (boosting shields or lowering bullet damage doesn’t cut it, changes shot-to-kill ratio which is at an extremely balanced point right now.)

148

It’s not, really. I still have fun playing while also being competitive. Minigames and Forge really make the game fun. I also had a great time playing Warzone.

149

This is such a silly argument. Competitive didnt kill Halo. Every halo game has a competitive focus up until Halo: Reach.

Competitiveness and Social are not mutually exclusive- one does not negate the other. In the previous games, the social experiences were born out of first establishing the competitive MM experiences.

in fact, when halo kicked competitive to the curb, is when it started seeing declinces.

The problem is, the people who complain about Arena being too stressful, are bringing stress upon themselves. If you relaxed and stopped caring about winning so much you would be able to have the same social experience you did back in the day.

150

> 2533274793358869;102:
> Oh? You guys don’t wanna play Mythic Shotty Snipes over and over and over and over and over this week whenever you aren’t feeling like gettin sweaty?
>
> I agree with you OP. I favor the competitive side of Halo and the majority of my games are in competitive ranked playlists, and always will be. However, sometimes I don’t wanna do that… But at the same time, when I’m not in the competitive mood, I also don’t want to play BTB, Griffball, or Infection or whatever crazy social playlist they’ve cooked up for the week. I want to play Halo in its true form, but just in a relaxed setting where I don’t have to worry about droppin ranks… The set up they have now is ridiculous and I have witnessed first hand, friends of mine deciding to give Halo a try, playing for a month, and quitting for good cause they can’t keep up with the competition, and don’t have a place to get the hang of the game. Warzone, BTB, Infection, and Griffball are NOT the places to learn the basics of Halo.
>
> What a big shame is that?! Someone who sees Halo 5 after never playing Halo before, becomes interested and buys it, and then quits after a month cause he isn’t having fun getting demolished game after game…
>
> Gotta find the balance, 343… Halo 2 had MORE competitive playlists than H5, and JUST as many more unranked competitive playlists as well… That game stayed fun for years… I’m still having fun now with H5, but I know a lot of others have already moved on to other games…

Totally true and exactly what I was getting at in my post.

151

> 2533274945811672;144:
> Ya i think the competition brought back halo

It did, but the game shouldn’t only focus on one thing; there needs to be an equal distribution of social and ranked across the board.

152

> 2533274849470050;6:
> …Halo 5 has breathed some badly needed life back into halo…

Uh, no, it did not. Halo 4’s sales were around seven million after its first year, Halo 5’s is looking to be more like two and a half million. Halo is doing worse every installment, because 343 doesn’t know how to listen to what the fans want and decide to go in some wayward direction they see as beneficial.

153

> 2533274812650916;10:
> Halo had 6 years of being based strictly around casual gameplay and we saw our sharpest declines in population ever.
>
> This forum not only is blatantly ignorant when it comes to competitive gameplay, many of you are PROUDLY ignorant. You refuse to listen to any intellectual competitive argument and instead throw all competitive players into this “MLG Try hard, KD ratio loving” stereotype that is honestly fairly ridiculous.
>
> It seems you guys believe a fellow Halo fan is entitled to whatever opinion they want… so long as it isn’t one that promotes competitive Halo.
>
> I’ve witnessed dozens of threads similar to this get so much support its downright troubling.
>
> What if I told you competitive want the same things you guys do? What if I told you the competitive crowd was asking for a balanced sandbox as far back as Halo 2? What if I told you the competitive crowd has no qualms against a compelling campaign, splitscreen, Grifball, infection, and the like? Would any of you believe me? Not many of you.
>
> What if I told you that the highest levels of competitive Halo, the players essentially just want a balanced arena shooter? You know, the thing that Halo was for nearly a decade before Reach and 4 tried to out-Call of Duty Call of Duty itself.
>
> Competitive Halo didn’t kill Halo. Halo isn’t dead. If you are curious as to why many people turned away from Halo, perhaps you should look at the games that turned away more fans than any other Halo game. I’m talking about Reach, Halo 4, and, for other reasons, MCC.
>
> Ignorance is OK to a certain degree. Wilfully remaining ignorant and relying on stereotypes to form your opinions just makes you look as ridiculous as you sound.

Halo’s overall population increased after every Halo game, its downfall starting with Halo 4, not Reach. (Reach has sold around 9.8 million copies, and Halo 4 has sold around 9.5 million). I don’t need to go into detail on how much Halo 4’s multiplayer population dropped, because it was one of the most humiliating things to happen to Halo and I’m sure we all know about it. The “six years of Halo’s population decline due to casuals” you talk about is nonexistent. Reach still holds a strong population of 9,000 to 13,000, not to mention it’s last-gen. Halo’s decline is happening now. Look at whichever website you want, Halo 5’s sales are despicable and it’s population is breathtakingly low. Halo 4 and the Master Chief Collection are clear examples of Halo’s recent failure, not much needs to be said about either of them.

OP: " Im not saying competitiveness in halo should go away, it’s been apart of halo sense ages but what I’m saying is they should do like they did in old halos where they put an mlg section for competitive players and a section for casuals and make the gameplay more simple and fun, not just completely ignore the fun aspects of the game and shove competitive gameplay into everyone’s throat like in halo 5 arenas."

If you took the time to read the entirety of the post, you’d clearly see that OP doesn’t think that competitive gaming is an abomination to the community, but an over-saturation of it is a bad thing, which was the case with Halo 4, is a much larger issue with Halo 5, and will most certainly persist into Halo 6. 343 hardly had any playlists in Halo 5 for months, not to mention casual playlists, which drove many non-competitive players away. I can’t see how you call posters who’re unsupportive of competitive play ignorant, when Halo 5’s whole eSports fiasco has brought an ultimate end to Halo’s casual gaming, with the help of 343’s inability to release a full game that included casual and non-ranked playlists. People have a right to be upset over 343’s ignorance and blatant disregard for the community.

154

yea true\

155

Yes everyone will get a participation trophy relax.

156

343 is trying to make Halo a “Twitch Shooter”.

157

> 2533274917158807;153:
> > 2533274812650916;10:
> > Halo had 6 years of being based strictly around casual gameplay and we saw our sharpest declines in population ever.
> >
> > This forum not only is blatantly ignorant when it comes to competitive gameplay, many of you are PROUDLY ignorant. You refuse to listen to any intellectual competitive argument and instead throw all competitive players into this “MLG Try hard, KD ratio loving” stereotype that is honestly fairly ridiculous.
> >
> > It seems you guys believe a fellow Halo fan is entitled to whatever opinion they want… so long as it isn’t one that promotes competitive Halo.
> >
> > I’ve witnessed dozens of threads similar to this get so much support its downright troubling.
> >
> > What if I told you competitive want the same things you guys do? What if I told you the competitive crowd was asking for a balanced sandbox as far back as Halo 2? What if I told you the competitive crowd has no qualms against a compelling campaign, splitscreen, Grifball, infection, and the like? Would any of you believe me? Not many of you.
> >
> > What if I told you that the highest levels of competitive Halo, the players essentially just want a balanced arena shooter? You know, the thing that Halo was for nearly a decade before Reach and 4 tried to out-Call of Duty Call of Duty itself.
> >
> > Competitive Halo didn’t kill Halo. Halo isn’t dead. If you are curious as to why many people turned away from Halo, perhaps you should look at the games that turned away more fans than any other Halo game. I’m talking about Reach, Halo 4, and, for other reasons, MCC.
> >
> > Ignorance is OK to a certain degree. Wilfully remaining ignorant and relying on stereotypes to form your opinions just makes you look as ridiculous as you sound.
>
>
> Halo’s overall population increased after every Halo game, its downfall starting with Halo 4, not Reach. (Reach has sold around 9.8 million copies, and Halo 4 has sold around 9.5 million). I don’t need to go into detail on how much Halo 4’s multiplayer population dropped, because it was one of the most humiliating things to happen to Halo and I’m sure we all know about it. The “six years of Halo’s population decline due to casuals” you talk about is nonexistent. Reach still holds a strong population of 9,000 to 13,000, not to mention it’s last-gen. Halo’s decline is happening now. Look at whichever website you want, Halo 5’s sales are despicable and it’s population is breathtakingly low. Halo 4 and the Master Chief Collection are clear examples of Halo’s recent failure, not much needs to be said about either of them.
>
> OP: " Im not saying competitiveness in halo should go away, it’s been apart of halo sense ages but what I’m saying is they should do like they did in old halos where they put an mlg section for competitive players and a section for casuals and make the gameplay more simple and fun, not just completely ignore the fun aspects of the game and shove competitive gameplay into everyone’s throat like in halo 5 arenas."
>
> If you took the time to read the entirety of the post, you’d clearly see that OP doesn’t think that competitive gaming is an abomination to the community, but an over-saturation of it is a bad thing, which was the case with Halo 4, is a much larger issue with Halo 5, and will most certainly persist into Halo 6. 343 hardly had any playlists in Halo 5 for months, not to mention casual playlists, which drove many non-competitive players away. I can’t see how you call posters who’re unsupportive of competitive play ignorant, when Halo 5’s whole eSports fiasco has brought an ultimate end to Halo’s casual gaming, with the help of 343’s inability to release a full game that included casual and non-ranked playlists. People have a right to be upset over 343’s ignorance and blatant disregard for the community.

I don’t know where you heard Reach’s population was more than Halo 3’s, but that’s wrong. Reach started the trend in a decline of sales and population. Just saying.

158

Why do you thing a lot of people stopped playing after a month or two. The minimal content and lack of social game modes didn’t help.

159

i feel as if the competitive scene is attracting more viewers, nobody is stopping you guys going back to your old halo YouTube days man. If anything competitive halo is growing halo in general.

160

I agree that 343i has put to much effort into making the perfect competitive shooter and that cost us fun game types like infection and griff ball at launch but they’ve slowly been fixing things. Hopefully they learn and add a social option into the game so you can play arena, warzone or social. They also need to have a greater focus on fun over competition for halo 6 but 343i has learned a lot and I have high hopes for the future.