Competitive Class based Arena shooter

Games Other Halo
1

In the 2.13.13 Halo bulletin , alongside a whole heap of news that most likely very much pleased the competitive Halo players out there an ‘Infinity Throwdown’ gametype was semi announced.

‘‘Additionally, we are aware that there is a portion of the competitive community who’d prefer to see game types that utilize the DMR, as well as more of Halo 4’s sandbox. As a result, we are working with Walshy, StrongSide and Gh057ayame to develop alternate settings with balanced loadouts that offer varied options for Primary Weapons, Armor Abilities, Tactical Packages and Support Upgrades.’’

So that begs the question. Can loadouts be competitive? I think they can, as long as they are implemented correctly. I’m just going to throw it out there, if a class based competitive gametype is to be introduced, this is what I think the pre-set loadouts should be:
No Armour Abilities. Tactical Package- Resupply. Support Upgrade- Explosive.
Scout: DMR, Magnum, 2x frags.
Assault: BR, AR, 2x frags.
Operator: Carbine, PP, 2x Plasma Grenades.
Guard: LR, BS, 2x Pulse Grenades.

Now let me explain my reasoning behind these loadouts. Not being a mismatch of perks, abilities and weapons they are easy loadouts to remember. One being a UNSC Navy themed class called Scout, Assault being a Marine themed class with an Assault Rifle Secondary and Operator and Guard being Covenant and Promethean weapon specialist classes respectfully. Believe it or not but I think having multiple starting weapons to be the most ‘competitive compatible’ element of loadouts. Why? Visual and Audible cues. When you see an enemy player you can see what gun they have, when they shoot, you can see different colour projectile trails and you can hear distinctive weapon sounds unique to each weapon.

Perks I don’t think can be incorporated, since they are invisible. For this reason I believe perks in Halo 4 have been nerfed on the most part to a level that they add very little to the game, such that they won’t be game breaking. I’ll use the Tactical Package Shielding as an example. With or without Shielding a players shields take 7 second to start recharging but with Shielding shields only take 1 additional second to fully recharge whilst without it takes 2. If it started recharging earlier than that it might be unfair for chasing players who have no clue the player they are chasing has enhanced shielding but as it stands shielding isn’t a particularly useful perk in Halo 4. Now if it had cues it would be a completely different story. Imagine if, when shot, a player with enhanced shielding shields shimmered blue instead of the usual yellow. A ‘Zealot shielding mod’. Then it could recharge earlier and it wouldn’t be game breaking. Alas this is not how perks have been implemented.

The great thing with pre-set loadouts as opposed to fully customisable loadouts is that as a player you can know that your enemy has for example a Boltshot because you saw that they had a Light Rifle in your initial encounter and as such you should know it might be unwise to try and melee that player. Having various Secondary weapons incentivises the use of other loadouts beyond the DMR loadout, which I think is a good thing. Plasma Grenades and Pulse Grenades are not exactly Power Grenades like Plasma Grenades in previous Halos so I see no harm in using them in loadouts. I’ve been playtesting these loadouts for a while now and they seem balanced. The only issue was the Boltshot and that is being nerfed. The Guard class however cannot be considered a noobs class in my opinion, without Stability the Light Rifle is a tricky weapon to use, especially on small maps and Pulse grenades I personally find fairly weak to be honest. The plasma pistol doesn’t seem much superior to frags in its shield stripping ability, so noob combo doesn’t seem such a big deal. The Explosive Perk seems to help balance out the whole BR/ DMR debate seeing as Frag grenades only do about 95% shield damage on these settings making bleedthrough more useful.

Remove instant Respawn and add static Ordinance and weapon pickups to the map and I think we have a competitive class based Arena Hybrid gametype.

2

To an extent, yes. Your loadouts seem pretty reasonable. I actually like how you set the bottom two up.

However, you can’t have a class with the DMR in it. Anyone who is at least competent at this game will pick it every time.

Also, what’s with explosives? I know that’s what the current competitive settings are right now, but I find it limits the skill gap on grenades.

3

> Also, what’s with explosives? I know that’s what the current competitive settings are right now, but I find it limits the skill gap on grenades.

It helps balance the DMR against the BR. If you hit a player with a frag grenade in these settings it takes 2 DMR shots to finish them off but only 1 BR Burst.

4

I can promise you, if the they continue to work with the competitive community on these settings, the boltshot will never be in a loadout.

Also I fall on the side of using dexterity instead of explosives. I think placing nades is a skill that should be mastered and that having faster reloads helps to speed up the game.

5

> I can promise you, if the they continue to work with the competitive community on these settings, the boltshot will never be in a loadout.
>
> Also I fall on the side of using dexterity instead of explosives. I think placing nades is a skill that should be mastered and that having faster reloads helps to speed up the game.

If the DMR wasn’t OP I would drop explosives in a hart beat. It is only there for balancing purposes.

6

TF2… Class Based Shooter… Incredibly balanced and quite competitive. I’d say it’s something they could pull off.

7

> > I can promise you, if the they continue to work with the competitive community on these settings, the boltshot will never be in a loadout.
> >
> > Also I fall on the side of using dexterity instead of explosives. I think placing nades is a skill that should be mastered and that having faster reloads helps to speed up the game.
>
> If the DMR wasn’t OP I would drop explosives in a hart beat. It is only there for balancing purposes.

I get what the intention is, but it still doesn’t balance the two.

8

Loadouts dont suit Halo , yes they can work but i’d rather just start with a br and magnum . Halo shouldnt have evolved into something that it doesnt suit

9

> Loadouts dont suit Halo , yes they can work but i’d rather just start with a br and magnum . Halo shouldnt have evolved into something that it doesnt suit

Class based gametypes shouldn’t replace Arena, that’s for sure. We are at least finally getting a BR Slayer gametype in Throwdown. Invasion in Reach I thought was a nice addition to Halo and it was a class based gametype. But that I think is the point, it was an addition.

10

> In the 2.13.13 Halo bulletin , alongside a whole heap of news that most likely very much pleased the competitive Halo players out there an ‘Infinity Throwdown’ gametype was semi announced.
>
> ‘‘Additionally, we are aware that there is a portion of the competitive community who’d prefer to see game types that utilize the DMR, as well as more of Halo 4’s sandbox. As a result, we are working with Walshy, StrongSide and Gh057ayame to develop alternate settings with balanced loadouts that offer varied options for Primary Weapons, Armor Abilities, Tactical Packages and Support Upgrades.’’
>
> So that begs the question. Can loadouts be competitive? I think they can, as long as they are implemented correctly. I’m just going to throw it out there, if a class based competitive gametype is to be introduced, this is what I think the pre-set loadouts should be:
> No Armour Abilities. Tactical Package- Resupply. Support Upgrade- Explosive.
> Scout: DMR, Magnum, 2x frags.
> Assault: BR, AR, 2x frags.
> Operator: Carbine, PP, 2x Plasma Grenades.
> Guard: LR, BS, 2x Pulse Grenades.
>
> Now let me explain my reasoning behind these loadouts. Not being a mismatch of perks, abilities and weapons they are easy loadouts to remember. One being a UNSC Navy themed class called Scout, Assault being a Marine themed class with an Assault Rifle Secondary and Operator and Guard being Covenant and Promethean weapon specialist classes respectfully. Believe it or not but I think having multiple starting weapons to be the most ‘competitive compatible’ element of loadouts. Why? Visual and Audible cues. When you see an enemy player you can see what gun they have, when they shoot, you can see different colour projectile trails and you can hear distinctive weapon sounds unique to each weapon.
>
> Perks I don’t think can be incorporated, since they are invisible. For this reason I believe perks in Halo 4 have been nerfed on the most part to a level that they add very little to the game, such that they won’t be game breaking. I’ll use the Tactical Package Shielding as an example. With or without Shielding a players shields take 7 second to start recharging but with Shielding shields only take 1 additional second to fully recharge whilst without it takes 2. If it started recharging earlier than that it might be unfair for chasing players who have no clue the player they are chasing has enhanced shielding but as it stands shielding isn’t a particularly useful perk in Halo 4. Now if it had cues it would be a completely different story. Imagine if, when shot, a player with enhanced shielding shields shimmered blue instead of the usual yellow. A ‘Zealot shielding mod’. Then it could recharge earlier and it wouldn’t be game breaking. Alas this is not how perks have been implemented.
>
> The great thing with pre-set loadouts as opposed to fully customisable loadouts is that as a player you can know that your enemy has for example a Boltshot because you saw that they had a Light Rifle in your initial encounter and as such you should know it might be unwise to try and melee that player. Having various Secondary weapons incentivises the use of other loadouts beyond the DMR loadout, which I think is a good thing. Plasma Grenades and Pulse Grenades are not exactly Power Grenades like Plasma Grenades in previous Halos so I see no harm in using them in loadouts. I’ve been playtesting these loadouts for a while now and they seem balanced. The only issue was the Boltshot and that is being nerfed. The Guard class however cannot be considered a noobs class in my opinion, without Stability the Light Rifle is a tricky weapon to use, especially on small maps and Pulse grenades I personally find fairly weak to be honest. The plasma pistol doesn’t seem much superior to frags in its shield stripping ability, so noob combo doesn’t seem such a big deal. The Explosive Perk seems to help balance out the whole BR/ DMR debate seeing as Frag grenades only do about 95% shield damage on these settings making bleedthrough more useful.
>
> Remove instant Respawn and add static Ordinance and weapon pickups to the map and I think we have a competitive class based Arena Hybrid gametype.

oh no this is a terrible idea sorry but no boltshot please 343 dont listen make it so we can’t choose loadouts just one deafult loadout and I’ll be happy

11

> oh no this is a terrible idea sorry but no boltshot please 343 dont listen make it so we can’t choose loadouts just one deafult loadout and I’ll be happy

343 are the ones who want loadouts. I was just suggesting ways to steer it in a way that might actually be competitive.

12

I’m not saying anything till Monday.

13

Your idea of a Class-based Arena Shooter ala “hybrid” doesn’t seem bad at first glance, however I get the feeling it will create some problems (especially that one loadout with the Boltshot). Also, you’re forgetting one very important factor which applies to all arena shooters to work well:
all players must start equally (for the most part).

Here is an idea I have been working on to create the best blend of Arena-style gameplay, Loadouts, & Ordnance which I’ve mentioned in a discussion I started here: Making AAs Work in Halo.

My Hybrid Slayer variant settings.
Update (17/02/13) - I was lucky enough to find a Slayer variant ahead of schedule, which has Instant Respawn disabled, allows the usage of Initial/Random Ordnance, and doesn’t override any placed weapons on the map… simply put, I can now disable Insta-spawn without breaking the maps, so I will go ahead and upload my custom Haven variant & updated gametype to my fileshare.

Details of the gametype & fixes are available here:

UPDATED: Hybrid Slayer v1.1 details

Changes will be highlighted

<mark>Score to Win: 50 (FFA: 25)</mark>

Time Limit: 12 Minutes

Lives per Round: Unlimited

No. of Rounds: 1

Teams: Enabled

Hybrid Slayer Options
<mark>Kill Points: 1 Point</mark>

<mark>Betrayal Points: -1 Point</mark>

<mark>Suicide Points: -1 Point</mark>

General Settings
Friendly Fire: Enabled

Team Changing: Disabled

Loadout Usage: Personal Loadouts

Vehicle Set: Map Default

Indestructible Vehicles: Disabled

Respawn Settings
<mark>Respawn Time: 5 Seconds</mark>

Suicide Penalty: 5 Seconds

Betrayal Penalty: 5 Seconds

Synchronize with Team: Disabled

Death Cam: Disabled

Ordnance
Initial Ordnance: Enabled

Random Ordnance: Enabled

Infinity Settings
Minimum Timer: 60 Seconds

Maximum Timer: 120 Seconds

Ordnance Substitutions: Map Default

Personal Ordnance: Enabled

Personal Ordnance Options
Customize Personal Ordnance: Enabled

Left

  1. Storm Rifle (Weight - 1)
  2. Covenant Carbine (Weight - 1
  3. Suppressor (Weight - 1)
  4. LightRifle (Weight - 1)

Middle

  1. Frag Grenades (Weight - 2)
  2. Plasma Grenades (Weight - 2)
  3. Pulse Grenades (Weight - 2)
  4. Energy Sword (Weight - 1)
  5. Gravity Hammer (Weight - 1)

Right

  1. Shotgun (Weight - 2)
  2. Needler (Weight - 2)
  3. SAW (Weight - 1)
  4. Concussion Rifle (Weight - 1)

<mark>Point Requirement: 100</mark>

<mark>Point Increase Multiplier: 20%</mark>

Traits
Base Player Traits
Shields and Health:
All Unchanged

Weapons and Damage:
Primary Weapon = BR

Secondary Weapons = Magnum

Grenade Count = 2x Frag

Equipment
Armor Ability = None

Sensor Range = 25 Meters

Movement:
Fall Damage = 0%

If you take a closer look, you will notice that I’ve enabled Personal Loadouts…

but I have used the Player Trait settings, forcing loadouts to have the same primary/secondary/grenades, and no AAs. The only things available for players to customize are the Tactical Package & Support Upgrade, mostly due to the fact that we’re unable to utilize any which are given to us in completing Specializations with Game Loadouts… ;(

I don’t see this giving players a major game breaking advantage over each other, although I will need to conduct further testing to see if this is true. I have also noticed that by doing this, you can still use weapon skins which have been unlocked, so all the more reason to.

14

If the only primary options were Lightrifle, Carbine, and BR it could be considered competitive.

If the only secondary was the Magnum it could be considered competitive.

Once the DMR, Boltshot, Plasma Pistol, Plasma grenades, or any other overpowered weapon enters the equation though it becomes laughable.

15

what you propose would actually involve thinking and being brave. find a way to get a job at 343 they don’t have the b**** to implement something this brave.

16

I would say add other primary weapons like the carbine and lr if they get balanced with the br. Have weapson have static rotational pre-determined spawn on maps. That is a way so this franchise can evolve more. No randomness at all because you know when something is spawning at what time. Also this is not really a class based shooter. you can have options to do that like you can with an arena based shooter but it is not a class based shooter because in those you cant make your loadout anything you want. in class based shooters you can only make a loadout from the class available. for example a sniper class in class based shooters can only use sniper rifles not assualt rifles or smgs. Like in team fortress 2 or battlefield series. Halo isn’t really like that.

17

The thing about arena shooters is equal balanced starts. No load outs, no perks, no AA’s. Every player has equal access to everything on map and the struggle for those weapons etc are what shape the course of the game. Once you start adding load outs and the like to an arena shooter and hybridize it, it is just a rapid decent into imbalance.

Can there be settings that make Halo 4 more competitive? Yes. However, for true competitive Halo to return this fascination with loadouts, AA’s perks and the like has to hit the bricks. This isn’t a desire to keep Halo the same but, just simply the nature of how arena shooters work. We have games like Battlefield and CoD for class based, xp progression load out systems. Crysis for the “hybrid” type things and Halo for Arena. There is no need for every game to have xp based load out systems. It just kills all diversity in the FPS Genre.

18

i’ll probably play that

19

This is just my opinion, and I, in no way claim to be an expert on competitive issues but lets say we have a class based gametype. I think we need to think about more than simply the loadouts, but what the gametype does with them. As with any loadout system we have the issue of people flocking to the same one and using it in the same way. In my mind the gametype would need to have limits on how many players can use each class per team, and what that player’s role is. Again, I’m not exactly sure what that would entail, perhaps something like a base system where some players have to Guard their own base and others have to attack the enemy’s. If we go with your class system and have say 8v8, I would think the main loadout should be assault and have them be the main attacking force, guards being the defence and operators and scouts being specialist units.

Just my likely very flawed thoughts on the matter.

20

I’m thinking of making a “classic slayer” gametype to offer to 343 as a main playlist

players spawn with just plasma pistol and have to get guns on the map, like the old days.

and of course guns will be more readily available than the ordnance crap they have now.