Competitive, Casual Questions

Games Other Halo
1

I’ve been reading the forums at work for years now as a way to try and better my gameplaying (hasn’t worked, still just OK) and as a genral timepasser. Lately I’ve even commented. But I feel I shouldn’t be involved until I know some things a little better . . .

I’d like to know what/who a ‘competitive gamer’ is. I’d like to know who/what a ‘true Halo fan’ is. I’d like to know why I, as a 33 year old admitted scifi/fantasy geek who plays about 3 hours a weekday and maybe 6 on Saturdays, get the impression that in these forums someone like myself is considered neither.

IMO a competitive gamer would be a person who has chosen video games (not just Halo games) as the outlet for their competitive spirit. They exhibit sportsmanship, believe in teamwork, and strive to better themselves at what they choose to be great at. To claim such a mantle, they should be good at ALL games - from Mario Kart to Call of Duty. They should not look upon others with different motivations as their lessers but should strive to better the community as a whole to better their own experience. They are willing to learn to master new versions of their favorites while respectfully extolling the virtues of the versions they love.

Secondly, IMO a true Halo fan would be one who plays the game not just for the unique mechanics of the franchise but for the amazing story. Someone whose criticisms might center more on canon flaws rather than whether the AR has changed from MP experience to MP experience. Or honestly, someone who could respectfully and informedly converse on both subjects at length. I’d like to believe true Halo fans are judged (if necessary) on their commitment to enjoying the whole of every game and their efforts to immerse themselves in the franchise no matter where or when they started.

To wrap, I offer myself as an example - I play Halo. I bought an XBox, then an XBox 360, then a Halo 4 Xbox 360 to play Halo and only Halo. I only own 5 other games. I read the books and can’t wait to run through the campaign again. My stats reflect that I am an average player but I play to win because I enjoy winning - just not to the exclusion of everything else. I consider myself a true Halo fan but not a competitive gamer by my definition.

TL;DR: What is a competitive gamer IYO? What is a true Halo fan IYO? Why must these types be at odds with others?

2

To me the big separation between casuals and competitive/hardcore players is that casuals only ask am I having fun or not. They get a yes or a no answer. It’s digital. Competitive/hardcore players ask am I having fun or not and WHY. It’s analog.

A casual player if they don’t like the game, they just won’t play it.

A competitive player if they don’t like the game, they will dissect it to understand why they don’t like it.

3

Those words don’t have a specific definition (especially in the video game context),they’re pretty much entirely subjective.
Anyways:
Casual “gamer”: video games aren’t the main hobby,usually spends just a few hours a week on them.Avoids difficult games.
Competitive “gamer”: playing video games is THE main hobby,usually spends a vast amount of hours on them.Gets angry when killed,is good at games and enjoys difficult ones.
True Halo fan: It’s just a buzzword.It has no meaning,at least to me.

4

> IMO a competitive gamer would be a person who has chosen video games (not just Halo games) as the outlet for their competitive spirit. They exhibit sportsmanship, believe in teamwork, and strive to better themselves at what they choose to be great at. <mark>To claim such a mantle, they should be good at ALL games - from Mario Kart to Call of Duty.</mark> They should not look upon others with different motivations as their lessers but should strive to better the community as a whole to better their own experience. They are willing to learn to master new versions of their favorites while respectfully extolling the virtues of the versions they love.

Sorry but no. So I can’t be a competitive gamer because I don’t like racing games? Rubbish.

A competitive gamer only needs to compete in a SINGLE title. For example I’m competitive in Halo, but I play CoD for fun casually with my friends.

By your logic there are no competitive sports professionals, because they only play football, and not EVERY sport.

5

its a false issue i think.

casual isnt the opposite of competitive.

i can play less than 10 hours a week to video games but when i do… ill do my best to win and defeat isnt acceptable ! I know weapon location (when there was), maps, wath weapon for that peticular situation, i learn weakness of my opponent wich are all competitive traits, but, i dont play 6hours a day.

It’s also not a skill factor, some casual are beast, while some ‘‘competive’’ SR 100+ are just the average player.

the choice would be between, casual vs dedicated and competitive vs low pression

A true halo fan, imo, is the one that will read the book, the stuff around, makes theory and fiction around the lore, but he will also enjoy the game even if he see a few flaws because it got ‘‘that’’ feeling, wich he wouldnt do normally with another random game.

6

It’s all semantics really…

I’m a casual gamer in that I own 4 games for Xbox, only play 2-3 hours a day if that, and I’m not really worried about my K/D or my leet stats, I’m much more interested in hanging out with friends having fun in War Games, or playing solo and just enjoying my free time.

I’m competitive because I don’t just run around the map like an idiot or try to glitch out or just drive the mongoose/ghost around in circles or whatever people do. I’ll get on the mic, talk to people, try to work together, and when I play I tend to be competitive because I like winning, and its kinda the point of the game :stuck_out_tongue:

As far as a “true halo fan” I mean this idea exists in everything… Let’s take music for an example… You can be a huge fan of a band… but does that mean you can’t criticize an album of theirs you don’t like? Not defending the ranting and crying of people who can’t, or choose not to, compete in Halo 4 because they refuse to adapt (and the people that say I SHOULDNT HAVE TO ADAPT THIS IS STILL HALO ISNT IT??? are hilarious to me).

Is the series the same? Yes, it is Halo. There are spartans, familiar weapons, missions, characters, etc. Have things changed? Yes, it’s a new iteration, things will change, or we could just release Halo CE 7 times.

7

Being competitive means you want to win through practice and hard work. That’s what Halo used to be. Everyone started with the same weapons. Everyone had a chance to go for set and known weapon spawns. The team who was better won. End of story. The people who loved this kind of gameplay are the people who I’d call “true” Halo fans. They love the game for what it is and because it’s difficult yet fair.

Halo 4, on the other hand, has become a flashy game based on customization and making individuals feel “special”. Giving players a choice for what they want to spawn with instantly unbalances the game. It’s the same with random weapon drops. For example, I very vividly remember a game on Ragnarok where a Spartan Laser dropped by the enemy base, and we got a shotgun. What weapon do you think is more effective on that map? That situation had nothing to do with skill. It’s all just chance. The enemy team got a free leg up for no reason at all. Why bother trying to be good if being good doesn’t matter as much anymore?

The problem isn’t that people who loved the old Halo games can’t let go and adapt. The problem is that Halo 4 isn’t Halo anymore.

8

> Being competitive means you want to win through practice and hard work. That’s what Halo used to be. Everyone started with the same weapons. Everyone had a chance to go for set and known weapon spawns. The team who was better won. End of story. The people who loved this kind of gameplay are the people who I’d call “true” Halo fans. They love the game for what it is and because it’s difficult yet fair.
>
> Halo 4, on the other hand, has become a flashy game based on customization and making individuals feel “special”. Giving players a choice for what they want to spawn with instantly unbalances the game. It’s the same with random weapon drops. For example, I very vividly remember a game on Ragnarok where a Spartan Laser dropped by the enemy base, and we got a shotgun. What weapon do you think is more effective on that map? That situation had nothing to do with skill. It’s all just chance. The enemy team got a free leg up for no reason at all. Why bother trying to be good if being good doesn’t matter as much anymore?
>
> The problem isn’t that people who loved the old Halo games can’t let go and adapt. The problem is that Halo 4 isn’t Halo anymore.

So everyone should spawn with a Pistol and 1 Frag grenade and then the game will FINALLY be balanced. Now I get it.

The problem really is that a “true Halo fan” and someone who CALLS themself a true halo fan are different things.

Calling yourself a true halo fan, just so you can bash the newest titles is such a hipster attitude. “I was a fan of Halo since before AAs and perks, Ordinances are for squares, anything that isn’t just like Halo 1-3 isn’t Halo. I know because I’m a TRUE halo fan”

9

The best way imo to understand the difference is to:

  1. Observe the atmosphere in game chat and in gameplay when you go into matchmaking with your less-skilled “casual” gamer friends. There is a lot of fun had, lots of chaos, goofy stuff going on all over the place. You can run around somewhat freely and just enjoy the game.

  2. Go into an mlg custom game with some seriously competitive and talented players. Observe the difference. The level of intensity skyrockets, the communication escalates to an urgent frenzy, there is rarely a moment when all 4 (or 5?) players on a team aren’t working in unison. In truth, it is a COMPLETELY different game.

The fact that the game is so very different between these two iterations is the reason for the disconnect between “casual” and “competitive” players. In truth, most casual gamers do not understand the dedication required to hold your own in a super competitive game. Likewise, many competitive gamers simply cannot turn off the killer instinct required for competitive play, which often makes casual gaming…well…not casual anymore.

Of course there are people like myself who try to strike a balance between the two, but it is admittedly difficult to do.

Also, the comment about competitive players asking WHY is completely spot on. For example, how many casual gamers do you know who go into theatre after a match to analyze 8 (or 10) perspectives from gameplay? Not many. Casual gamers make clips of hilarious warthog mishaps, competitive gamers analyze strategy. Neither is better than the other, that’s the beauty of Halo.

10

> Competitive “gamer”: playing video games is THE main hobby,usually spends a vast amount of hours on them.Gets angry when killed,is good at games and enjoys difficult ones.

Wow, i guess i am competitive then!!!

11

Thank you for those responses, that’s what I was looking for! To the gentleman that was offended by my reference to being good at all video games, my apologies - I simply feel that if you label yourself a competitive GAMER you should be such. Otherwise, you are a competitive HALO PLAYER - a case of semantics, but a pretty big one.

Also, for the gentleman using Ragnarok as an example of unbalanced gameplay - they have a Spartan Laser, you spawn with a DMR. On that map, you can easily counter the SL user from overwhelming your team’s vehicles by hunting down that telltale red spark and putting 4-5 in his head.

Sorry no direct quote boxes, still getting the hang of this. Thank you again for the honest responses!

12

> > Competitive “gamer”: playing video games is THE main hobby,usually spends a vast amount of hours on them.Gets angry when killed,is good at games and enjoys difficult ones.
>
> Wow, i guess i am competitive then!!!

As I said,those terms are completely subjective.You can be called a casual scrub by someone and pro a few minutes beforehand.It depends on who is using said adjectives.
Also,from what I can tell your played time/stats aren’t that good,so I’d call you an average player instead.But that’s a whole different discussion.
Sorry for the OT.

13

> > Being competitive means you want to win through practice and hard work. That’s what Halo used to be. Everyone started with the same weapons. Everyone had a chance to go for set and known weapon spawns. The team who was better won. End of story. The people who loved this kind of gameplay are the people who I’d call “true” Halo fans. They love the game for what it is and because it’s difficult yet fair.
> >
> > Halo 4, on the other hand, has become a flashy game based on customization and making individuals feel “special”. Giving players a choice for what they want to spawn with instantly unbalances the game. It’s the same with random weapon drops. For example, I very vividly remember a game on Ragnarok where a Spartan Laser dropped by the enemy base, and we got a shotgun. What weapon do you think is more effective on that map? That situation had nothing to do with skill. It’s all just chance. The enemy team got a free leg up for no reason at all. Why bother trying to be good if being good doesn’t matter as much anymore?
> >
> > The problem isn’t that people who loved the old Halo games can’t let go and adapt. The problem is that Halo 4 isn’t Halo anymore.
>
> So everyone should spawn with a Pistol and 1 Frag grenade and then the game will FINALLY be balanced. Now I get it.
>
>
> The problem really is that a “true Halo fan” and someone who CALLS themself a true halo fan are different things.
>
> Calling yourself a true halo fan, just so you can bash the newest titles is such a hipster attitude. “I was a fan of Halo since before AAs and perks, Ordinances are for squares, anything that isn’t just like Halo 1-3 isn’t Halo. I know because I’m a TRUE halo fan”

Everyone spawning with the same weapons is inherently more balanced than spawning people with different weapons. That isn’t really even an argument. It’s the same with my example on Ragnarok. Instances of randomness don’t mix well with trying to make a game balanced (in terms of an arena shooter).

Secondly, from my point of view, the original Halo trilogy was Halo. That’s the game I like, and that’s what they built it to be. With Halo 4, they took the things that really made Halo feel like Halo (to me, at least) and got rid of them or changed them. That makes it not feel like Halo anymore. It’s a different game with “Halo” on the box.

I’ll break this down as simply as I can. Before Reach/4, the people who were fans of Halo were fans. Pretty self-explanatory. When Reach came out, things really started to change. The fanbase became fragmented. There are a bunch of people who really liked Reach, but there are also a bunch of people who hated it and wanted to just go back to the original gameplay. They’re both fans of Halo, but that’s because each side has a different perception of what Halo is.

As a player who prefers the original trilogy, I’m just left wondering what the heck happened. There was a core audience for those games that helped build the game to be the franchise that it is, and I don’t think they’re being fairly represented in the new era of Halo games. By all means, Halo can evolve into something different. It’s business. Gaming has become more mainstream, so more casual people have started playing. Companies need to cater to the majority, or they’ll fail. I understand that. My solution is to just throw in some classic playlists so the people who liked the original games can play what they like without being told to just “Go back to Halo 3.” H3 isn’t going to be around forever.

I guess my definition of a “true” fan is from the perspective of the original trilogy side of the argument. The fact that I’ve been putting that in quotes is a sign that I hate defining who a “real” fan is. If you like the game, you’re a fan. I just feel like our side of the community is under-appreciated by 343. We invested years into playing the game to elevate it to its current status, and now I feel like they aren’t even listening to us.

14

It took me a while to craft this response. A part of me was afraid of possible reactions and I had to spend some time reflecting on my own feelings.

Honestly, I dislike the usage of “true” when it applies to fandom. To me, it feels like whenever we say, “I am a true Halo fan,” it feels like we are actually saying, “the rest of you don’t belong, don’t rate.”

Why do I feel that way? Because whenever I hear or read about someone who is supposedly a “true” fan of something, it is inevitably used to put down everybody else, or dismiss another person’s opinion as invalid. It’s used to state that we’re not considered worthy of liking Halo. It’s used to state that Person A can’t be a fan of Halo because only a true fan would have read the books, or no true fan would like Halo because of [Y], or they don’t play in a certain style or on certain maps or with certain loadouts.

Why is it unacceptable to welcome anyone who likes the Halo story or playing Halo games, regardless of when they were first introduced to it? Why do we gate-check people with unreasonable qualifications such as books or gameplay style, or which iteration of Halo they like? Why are we trying to exclude people who don’t invest the same amount of time or interest in Halo?

I much prefer that instead we consider ourselves as all being fans of Halo, regardless of how much trivia we know, or how much time we spend playing the game, or whether we’re competitive or casual. Maybe instead of judging people by saying, “You’re not a true fan because of [reasons],” we could welcome them with “Nice to meet a fellow fan. Have you read this book? I think you might enjoy it because of [reasons]. If you don’t like it or aren’t interested, I still hope to see you in War Games (or wherever).”

Maybe if we were to welcome both casual and competitive players, more people would show an increased interest. Maybe with that interest, they might try to practice and get better. I think we could go a long way towards making everybody “true” Halo fans this way. We don’t all have to hold the same opinions of Halo, and we certainly aren’t obligated to withhold criticism. I just feel that fans of Halo could value different perspectives and interests equally.

Look, if you like playing competitively and strategizing different ways of winning different maps, that’s awesome. I think that’s pretty cool and I like seeing that level of teamwork and organization on the field. If you like reading the books and extended fluff and theorize on the socio-political atmosphere of the Halo universe, that’s shiny. I wouldn’t mind taking a look and I find it interesting to read up on someone else’s observations and opinions.

But if I’m not into all of that? If all I like is firing up the console to play 30 minutes of Halo, whether it’s War Games without a mic trying to cooperate as best I can with my team, or Spartan Ops single-player, or maybe just split-screen custom with a friend on a guest account? If, out of the few moments of free time that I have in a day, I choose to go to Halo because I like the franchise, why should I be excluded from being as equally a fan of Halo as you?

15

> It took me a while to craft this response. A part of me was afraid of possible reactions and I had to spend some time reflecting on my own feelings.
>
> Honestly, I dislike the usage of “true” when it applies to fandom. To me, it feels like whenever we say, “I am a true Halo fan,” it feels like we are actually saying, “the rest of you don’t belong, don’t rate.”
>
> …
>
> But if I’m not into all of that? If all I like is firing up the console to play 30 minutes of Halo, whether it’s War Games without a mic trying to cooperate as best I can with my team, or Spartan Ops single-player, or maybe just split-screen custom with a friend on a guest account? If, out of the few moments of free time that I have in a day, I choose to go to Halo because I like the franchise, why should I be excluded from being as equally a fan of Halo as you?

I agree (I shortened your post for the sake of not reposing a wall of text AND a new wall of text). If you like the game, you’re a fan. I think the problem is that, like I said in my previous post, the community is fragmented about what style of Halo they prefer (old vs. new). Everyone is a fan, but 343 is so focused on shiny new things that they seem to be kind of ignoring the fans of the original trilogy. I guess I feel like I’m part of a group of fans that aren’t being represented as much as the other side. When different sects of the community are focused on more than others, it makes certain types of fans and their feedback “more important” than others, which is part of where the whole “true fan” argument comes into play.

A good example is Metallica. There are a bunch of people who hated Load/Reload/St. Anger. Just because they prefer the old stuff doesn’t mean they aren’t fans of Metallica. In that case they can just go back and listen to the old music. Music doesn’t go bad. With games, however, they have a finite lifespan. Halo 3 isn’t going to be populated and serviced forever. We aren’t always going to have the option to go back and play the old games. Having to just “suck it up” or choose to go back to the old games would be like if music deteriorated over time. “If you don’t like the new albums, go listen to the old stuff which will only be available for x amount of time.”

Point is, my side invested a lot of time and emotion into the original games, and now they’re kind of pulling the carpet out from under us by changing everything without giving us the option to play with the style we prefer. All I want is a new playlist. lol

16

> Thank you for those responses, that’s what I was looking for! <mark>To the gentleman that was offended by my reference to being good at all video games, my apologies</mark> - I simply feel that if you label yourself a competitive GAMER you should be such. Otherwise, you are a competitive HALO PLAYER - a case of semantics, but a pretty big one.
>
> Also, for the gentleman using Ragnarok as an example of unbalanced gameplay - they have a Spartan Laser, you spawn with a DMR. On that map, you can easily counter the SL user from overwhelming your team’s vehicles by hunting down that telltale red spark and putting 4-5 in his head.
>
> Sorry no direct quote boxes, still getting the hang of this. Thank you again for the honest responses!

That was me, sorry I shouldn’t have been harsh, I know you were just stating your opinion.

As far as doing the direct quotes, look at the individual message, and there is a little box at the bottom which says “Menu”, you click on that and then “Quote” to quote their message

17

> > > Being competitive means you want to win through practice and hard work. That’s what Halo used to be. Everyone started with the same weapons. Everyone had a chance to go for set and known weapon spawns. The team who was better won. End of story. The people who loved this kind of gameplay are the people who I’d call “true” Halo fans. They love the game for what it is and because it’s difficult yet fair.
> > >
> > > Halo 4, on the other hand, has become a flashy game based on customization and making individuals feel “special”. Giving players a choice for what they want to spawn with instantly unbalances the game. It’s the same with random weapon drops. For example, I very vividly remember a game on Ragnarok where a Spartan Laser dropped by the enemy base, and we got a shotgun. What weapon do you think is more effective on that map? That situation had nothing to do with skill. It’s all just chance. The enemy team got a free leg up for no reason at all. Why bother trying to be good if being good doesn’t matter as much anymore?
> > >
> > > The problem isn’t that people who loved the old Halo games can’t let go and adapt. The problem is that Halo 4 isn’t Halo anymore.
> >
> > So everyone should spawn with a Pistol and 1 Frag grenade and then the game will FINALLY be balanced. Now I get it.
> >
> >
> > The problem really is that a “true Halo fan” and someone who CALLS themself a true halo fan are different things.
> >
> > Calling yourself a true halo fan, just so you can bash the newest titles is such a hipster attitude. “I was a fan of Halo since before AAs and perks, Ordinances are for squares, anything that isn’t just like Halo 1-3 isn’t Halo. I know because I’m a TRUE halo fan”
>
> Everyone spawning with the same weapons is inherently more balanced than spawning people with different weapons. That isn’t really even an argument. It’s the same with my example on Ragnarok. Instances of randomness don’t mix well with trying to make a game balanced (in terms of an arena shooter).
>
> Secondly, from my point of view, the original Halo trilogy was Halo. That’s the game I like, and that’s what they built it to be. With Halo 4, they took the things that really made Halo feel like Halo (to me, at least) and got rid of them or changed them. That makes it not feel like Halo anymore. It’s a different game with “Halo” on the box.
>
> I’ll break this down as simply as I can. Before Reach/4, the people who were fans of Halo were fans. Pretty self-explanatory. When Reach came out, things really started to change. The fanbase became fragmented. There are a bunch of people who really liked Reach, but there are also a bunch of people who hated it and wanted to just go back to the original gameplay. They’re both fans of Halo, but that’s because each side has a different perception of what Halo is.
>
> As a player who prefers the original trilogy, I’m just left wondering what the heck happened. There was a core audience for those games that helped build the game to be the franchise that it is, and I don’t think they’re being fairly represented in the new era of Halo games. By all means, Halo can evolve into something different. It’s business. Gaming has become more mainstream, so more casual people have started playing. Companies need to cater to the majority, or they’ll fail. I understand that. My solution is to just throw in some classic playlists so the people who liked the original games can play what they like without being told to just “Go back to Halo 3.” H3 isn’t going to be around forever.
>
> I guess my definition of a “true” fan is from the perspective of the original trilogy side of the argument. The fact that I’ve been putting that in quotes is a sign that I hate defining who a “real” fan is. If you like the game, you’re a fan. I just feel like our side of the community is under-appreciated by 343. We invested years into playing the game to elevate it to its current status, and now I feel like they aren’t even listening to us.

I mean that’s fair, and I appreciate you actually being level-headed about the exchange. I guess it just comes down to the nostalgia level… It’s not the game you loved because it is simply not that game. :. I played Super Smash Bros N64 til my fingers turned blue (still do) but I don’t fancy Brawl or Melee at all. I understand the comparison but I also never expected either of those titles to be as good as the N64 version I loved so much.

Know what I mean? I expected change, and ddid I like it as much? No. So I hear you on that front, but I think the game is still good. Adding a “playlist” or something with throwback Halo games/hitboxes/movements/weapons/spawn times/ etc is just like adding a port of an old Halo game into the current Halo game. Why would they do that when the game already exists just on a different disk?

18

> Honestly, I dislike the usage of “true” when it applies to fandom. To me, it feels like whenever we say, “I am a true Halo fan,” it feels like we are actually saying, “the rest of you don’t belong, don’t rate.”

Sometimes this is necessary.
I personally think this true fan stuff started with he old vs new arguments,and most of times the “non true fans” are people who started playing Halo just a few years ago.
I know people who started with Reach or even 4 who claim that x is the best Halo ever.But how can you say that?you haven’t tried them all.To truly understand something,you must have some experience first.I rate the opinions of the players who started with CE/2 higher simply because of this.

19

This is COMPLETELY of topic, but can we just applaud everyone in this thread for making eloquent, thought out responses and discourse? It’s refreshing to a fault! Well done everyone here.

As for me, I’m a casual gamer to be sure. I only play a couple times a week and only for an hour or two at that. But when I do play, I play to win. I suppose there’s room for a competitive/casual hybrid somewhere. A caspetitive player, if you will. Cheers.

20

> This is COMPLETELY of topic, but can we just applaud everyone in this thread for making eloquent, thought out responses and discourse? It’s refreshing to a fault! Well done everyone here.
>
> As for me, I’m a casual gamer to be sure. I only play a couple times a week and only for an hour or two at that. But when I do play, I play to win. I suppose there’s room for a competitive/casual hybrid somewhere. A caspetitive player, if you will. Cheers.

Caspetual!