Community, lets have a reasonable discussion

The forums are just lit up right now with people screaming about this and that with little reasoning behind what they are saying. Let us use this thread to have a decent conversation, not one that goes like “gooo back to h3”, and “your a noob so your opinion doesn’t count”.

It has been mentioned that the game is practically done. -Yoink!- and moaning now does not solve anything. So lets look at what this game is going to be and from a logically point of view, dissect it to get to the root of things.

First thing to be mentioned is the Armor Abilities. In Reach, it is pretty much agreed by all that the majority of the AA’s did not work as intended to compliment the game flow. What I mean is that the maps were not designed with sprint in mind, and thus gameplay suffered greatly. Some AAs were next to useless (I am looking at you hologram) and some were just downright cheap (that’s right armor lock, you heard me). The great thing is that in 343i has seen this also. There really isn’t a AA that is so dominating that it breaks the game, nor one that is completely useless (even though hologram STILL looks lame, and if you fall for it you should be ashamed). They actually look balanced and every single one of them has a counter and way to beat it, and this is terrific news.

Second thing is that the guns actually look useful and make sense with the slight exception of the BR’s TTK (but at this point, its whatever). The better person is going to win in this game because the bloom on your “precision” weapon doesn’t screw you over. For me personally this was the most infuriating thing about Reach, because the shots were so random that the better player didn’t win when they should have. Base player speed has increased and with that, strafing should matter again, and individual skill will shine again.

Third issue is the perks and specializations that are in Halo 4. I honestly don’t mind them, seeing as they are minor additions and won’t really affect the outcome. All they do is just assist the player and help them achieve the little things a little easier, plus allow players do help with their type of playstyle and give us more customization. The CoD references in this part of the game cannot be ignored, simply due to how obvious it is that they are taking parts of the most successful FPS in the world and incorporating it into one of the most loyal fanbases in the world.

Fourth issue is the confusion and lack of clarification on a ranking system. It could just be me, but I don’t think that the specializations are all-she-wrote when it comes to a ranking system, but they enhance the replay-ability of H4 which I am all down for. However, there needs to be a place where the best players play the best players, and the worst players play the worst players. Don’t get me wrong, running across and pro or simi pro team in matchmaking is fun and pumps you up, but when you and your team are significantly better than most other players and you dominate most every match that gets old, for both the better team, and the players getting dumped on. Matchmaking in Reach just wasn’t a good place to practice due to the inconsistency in competition levels compared to H3 and H2. Lets hope that a legitimate ranking system is present in H4.

The hardcore competitive players (the ones who live to win and excel in whatever activity they endeavor) have legitimate arguments (I personally have been pretty vocal about many issues) but the casual players do as well. What everyone wants is a game that is balanced AND fun. Halo 4 looks to be just that. Nothing looks broken beyond belief and yes the better player will win due to the game mechanics in this game, and yet H4 looks to have everything that casual players love and more.

I believe that the classic playlists just won’t seem as fun, and MLG would be wise to incorporate the loadout freedom into its playlists. The reason that MLG and Halo were so successful was because in H2 and H3 MLG and regular playlists really were not that far apart and so it was easier for a casual person to watch, understand, and appreciate. There was a tremendous divide in the MLG Reach community mostly due to weapon bloom on the DMR, and some of the AAs that simply didn’t work well in Reach. This needs to change for MLG’s community to get back to where it was a few years ago (I really miss MLG H3, the mainstage, the events, the community ahhhhh).

At the end of the day, Halo had to change. It was absolutely necessary for it to keep pace with other FPS. Microsoft simply cannot afford for it to be a niche shooter. Halo 4 looks like a great game that is going to satisfy a lot of players for a long time. 343i’s name and reputation is at stake and for us players that is incredible. That means they will actively and aggressively address the plaguing issues that arise. Bungie did the bare minimum and for a lot of us, ruined what good they had built.

I for one cannot wait for 11.6.12 to get here. My LE copy will be so sweet:)

Well said OP.

I also can’t wait to get my LE of Halo 4

Spot on. The only thing I have an issue with is this:

> …and MLG would be wise to incorporate the loadout freedom into its playlists.

I don’t think we’ll see that happening anytime soon. Though it might give a boost to the size of MLG Halo’s audience, MLG often strives for total predictability and balance, which allowing custom loadouts would disrupt.

I also agree. The specialization and what not aren’t game changing.People can easily play classic if they do not like the new changes, really. I will probably play both. My only thing is the ordnance drops, but still. There are playlists that have ordnance drops with the new changes. Everything works out to everyone’s favor.

> Spot on. The only thing I have an issue with is this:
>
>
> > …and MLG would be wise to incorporate the loadout freedom into its playlists.
>
> I don’t think we’ll see that happening anytime soon. Though it might give a boost to the size of MLG Halo’s audience, MLG often strives for total predictability and balance, which allowing custom loadouts would disrupt.

Eh, I agree mostly. However, in it’s current state MLG and the community is just depressing. I’m not a super PC guy and that is all it is really right now. In my mind MLG will always be Halo, but MLG Halo must grow, and being plain is not the right path IMHO. But time will tell I guess. Hopefully Anakin and KC do a great job and let us have more than 2 gametypes to play lol.

> I also agree. The specialization and what not aren’t game changing.People can easily play classic if they do not like the new changes, really. I will probably play both. My only thing is the ordnance drops, but still. There are playlists that have ordnance drops with the new changes. Everything works out to everyone’s favor.

But you have to look at if from their perspective. I shouldn’t be forced into playing ONE playlist for things to be fair and balanced. The game should be that way from the get-go. It wouldn’t be fair for there to be all these classic playlists and only one playlist for all the people who wanna play the new style of Halo.

> > Spot on. The only thing I have an issue with is this:
> >
> >
> > > …and MLG would be wise to incorporate the loadout freedom into its playlists.
> >
> > I don’t think we’ll see that happening anytime soon. Though it might give a boost to the size of MLG Halo’s audience, MLG often strives for total predictability and balance, which allowing custom loadouts would disrupt.
>
> Eh, I agree mostly. However, in it’s current state MLG and the community is just depressing. I’m not a super PC guy and that is all it is really right now. In my mind MLG will always be Halo, but MLG Halo must grow, and being plain is not the right path IMHO. But time will tell I guess. Hopefully Anakin and KC do a great job and let us have more than 2 gametypes to play lol.

Yeah, MLG’s number of gametypes in Reach is just boring. I’m surprised they never experimented with territories or stockpile, or implemented more community maps that aren’t remakes. Like you said, I hate to see MLG dominated by PC games too.

Now god forbid, anyone flames the OP for “liking Halo 4” But anyhow. I agree with the OP. Halo has always been about evolved combat. 343 has stated many times that canologicaly mutliplayer will tie in with the main story, that I don’t agree with, but all these new features just add more things to do in Halo 4, meaning, when you aren’t ranking up, you could be replaying Campaign or doing something the Forge 3.0. The specializations are just a minor addition to Halo and while I don’t really think they’ll affect gameplay that much, we cannot simply make an accusation of how these specializations will play out. We’ve slammed PV and Hardlight Shield but thats because we’ve seen them in action. To this day I haven’t figuired out how some gamers can make an assuption on something they haven’t even seen played out. We don’t know how good specializations will work or how much of a buff they will give us with our playstyles. Before I judge anything, I need to see if in play first.

But to the OP, people are slamming Halo 4 because of one reason. The fact of the AA’s in Reach and the mods that are CODlike. We know how the perks work in COD. But we have not seen a single clip of gameplay featuring these mods. E3 and RTX barely had anything that even showed a glance of the mods being used. The infinite sprint ability, we’ve already seen. Alpha Zombies had it. People are focusing on the Reach side of thing in Halo 4 and are slamming it speficly because of the AA’s and the COD elements, people already seem to be forgetting about the Halo 3 aspects of this game. I ultimately think that is was will break Halo 4.

> > > Spot on. The only thing I have an issue with is this:
> > >
> > >
> > > > …and MLG would be wise to incorporate the loadout freedom into its playlists.
> > >
> > > I don’t think we’ll see that happening anytime soon. Though it might give a boost to the size of MLG Halo’s audience, MLG often strives for total predictability and balance, which allowing custom loadouts would disrupt.
> >
> > Eh, I agree mostly. However, in it’s current state MLG and the community is just depressing. I’m not a super PC guy and that is all it is really right now. In my mind MLG will always be Halo, but MLG Halo must grow, and being plain is not the right path IMHO. But time will tell I guess. Hopefully Anakin and KC do a great job and let us have more than 2 gametypes to play lol.
>
> Yeah, MLG’s number of gametypes in Reach is just boring. I’m surprised they never experimented with territories or stockpile, or implemented more community maps that aren’t remakes. Like you said, I hate to see MLG dominated by PC games too.

They did experiment with other gametypes but for various reasons never kept them:( Personally I love more variety in MLG, makes the tournaments more exciting to watch, plus who can forget Neighbor going CLUTCH with that oddball game on Guardian to win with zero seconds left. Classic.

> But to the OP, people are slamming Halo 4 because of one reason. The fact of the AA’s in Reach and the mods that are CODlike. We know how the perks work in COD. But we have not seen a single clip of gameplay featuring these mods. E3 and RTX barely had anything that even showed a glance of the mods being used. The infinite sprint ability, we’ve already seen. Alpha Zombies had it. People are focusing on the Reach side of thing in Halo 4 and are slamming it speficly because of the AA’s and the COD elements, people already seem to be forgetting about the Halo 3 aspects of this game. I ultimately think that is was will break Halo 4.

Yes, but to be fair to those attacking the AA’s, they were broke as hell in Reach, but what those people need to see is this is not Reach. It’s better than that. Anyone in the world could have told you that AL and bloom on a weapon is a bad idea, even without seeing it but for some stupid*** reason Bungie wanted to piss on the world. Balance in every aspect is all we all want. So simple, yet for some reason, so hard to get.

I think that’s only Infinity Slayer that has Ordinance Drops. That’s what I’ve picked up at least.

> I think that’s only Infinity Slayer that has Ordinance Drops. That’s what I’ve picked up at least.

Ya I believe that is correct. The other playlists will be just like normal.

> > But to the OP, people are slamming Halo 4 because of one reason. The fact of the AA’s in Reach and the mods that are CODlike. We know how the perks work in COD. But we have not seen a single clip of gameplay featuring these mods. E3 and RTX barely had anything that even showed a glance of the mods being used. The infinite sprint ability, we’ve already seen. Alpha Zombies had it. People are focusing on the Reach side of thing in Halo 4 and are slamming it speficly because of the AA’s and the COD elements, people already seem to be forgetting about the Halo 3 aspects of this game. I ultimately think that is was will break Halo 4.
>
> Yes, but to be fair to those attacking the AA’s, they were broke as hell in Reach, but what those people need to see is this is not Reach. It’s better than that. Anyone in the world could have told you that AL and bloom on a weapon is a bad idea, even without seeing it but for some stupid*** reason Bungie wanted to piss on the world. Balance in every aspect is all we all want. So simple, yet for some reason, so hard to get.

Bloom itself, not too bad of a concept. But in Reach, it was implemented HORRIBLY on precision weapons. I’ve got no idea why Armor Lock ever lasted more than a second because that’s all the time it would take for the ability’s main purpose (sticky-shedding and vehicle-blocking). Even then, it would be OP as hell because it lets the user survive anything, not to mention how badly an invincibility button disrupts the flow of the game. It was just a bad idea, I’ll leave it at that.

> > > But to the OP, people are slamming Halo 4 because of one reason. The fact of the AA’s in Reach and the mods that are CODlike. We know how the perks work in COD. But we have not seen a single clip of gameplay featuring these mods. E3 and RTX barely had anything that even showed a glance of the mods being used. The infinite sprint ability, we’ve already seen. Alpha Zombies had it. People are focusing on the Reach side of thing in Halo 4 and are slamming it speficly because of the AA’s and the COD elements, people already seem to be forgetting about the Halo 3 aspects of this game. I ultimately think that is was will break Halo 4.
> >
> > Yes, but to be fair to those attacking the AA’s, they were broke as hell in Reach, but what those people need to see is this is not Reach. It’s better than that. Anyone in the world could have told you that AL and bloom on a weapon is a bad idea, even without seeing it but for some stupid*** reason Bungie wanted to piss on the world. Balance in every aspect is all we all want. So simple, yet for some reason, so hard to get.
>
> Bloom itself, not too bad of a concept. But in Reach, it was implemented HORRIBLY on precision weapons. I’ve got no idea why Armor Lock ever lasted more than a second because that’s all the time it would take for the ability’s main purpose (sticky-shedding and vehicle-blocking). Even then, it would be OP as hell because it lets the user survive anything, not to mention how badly an invincibility button disrupts the flow of the game. It was just a bad idea, I’ll leave it at that.

Ya, pretty much this^

I’m just waiting to hear what they have to say is their response to a ranking system since a 1-50 and arena isn’t going to be in it. Lets just hope it’s based on W/L. This is a team game and winning as a team needs to matter again.

> I’m just waiting to hear what they have to say is their response to a ranking system since a 1-50 and arena isn’t going to be in it. Lets just hope it’s based on W/L. This is a team game and winning as a team needs to matter again.

It better be. If we have skill ranking based on INDIVIDUAL player performance, well… we all know how that worked out in the first few seasons of Arena.

> > I’m just waiting to hear what they have to say is their response to a ranking system since a 1-50 and arena isn’t going to be in it. Lets just hope it’s based on W/L. This is a team game and winning as a team needs to matter again.
>
> It better be. If we have skill ranking based on INDIVIDUAL player performance, well… we all know how that worked out in the first few seasons of Arena.

Its true. There was no incentive to win in Reach, and the arena system was first one to horde power weapons placed amazing. Arena promoted you stealing kills and a me before we attitude. Winning mattered in H3. If you win, you go up. If you lose, you go down. But the system was soo complicated that many people got exp locked and that brought on the whole issue with boosters and derankers (if you are a deranker, or booster and your b***hing about there not being a 1-50 system, then screw you. You’re the reason we can’t have nice things).

> > > I’m just waiting to hear what they have to say is their response to a ranking system since a 1-50 and arena isn’t going to be in it. Lets just hope it’s based on W/L. This is a team game and winning as a team needs to matter again.
> >
> > It better be. If we have skill ranking based on INDIVIDUAL player performance, well… we all know how that worked out in the first few seasons of Arena.
>
> Its true. There was no incentive to win in Reach, and the arena system was first one to horde power weapons placed amazing. Arena promoted you stealing kills and a me before we attitude. Winning mattered in H3. If you win, you go up. If you lose, you go down. But the system was soo complicated that many people got exp locked and that brought on the whole issue with boosters and derankers (if you are a deranker, or booster and your b***hing about there not being a 1-50 system, then screw you. You’re the reason we can’t have nice things).

I’m just hoping that 343’s replacement for the 1-50 is

A. Based on Win-Loss
B. Accurate, without causing massively long search times at any skill level.

> > > > I’m just waiting to hear what they have to say is their response to a ranking system since a 1-50 and arena isn’t going to be in it. Lets just hope it’s based on W/L. This is a team game and winning as a team needs to matter again.
> > >
> > > It better be. If we have skill ranking based on INDIVIDUAL player performance, well… we all know how that worked out in the first few seasons of Arena.
> >
> > Its true. There was no incentive to win in Reach, and the arena system was first one to horde power weapons placed amazing. Arena promoted you stealing kills and a me before we attitude. Winning mattered in H3. If you win, you go up. If you lose, you go down. But the system was soo complicated that many people got exp locked and that brought on the whole issue with boosters and derankers (if you are a deranker, or booster and your b***hing about there not being a 1-50 system, then screw you. You’re the reason we can’t have nice things).
>
> I’m just hoping that 343’s replacement for the 1-50 is
>
> A. Based on Win-Loss
> B. Accurate, without causing massively long search times at any skill level.

I don’t really remember long search times for most ranked matches. Nowadays on H3 is a different story, but it is expected with the low population numbers.

I say we just hit the self destruct button :stuck_out_tongue: