Combat and movement

I’ve been noticing a trend in recent halo games. Movement and combat are two totally different things now. What this means is, in order to shoot somebody(combat) I have to refrain from sprinting, thrusting, or clambering. This was not the case in the first 3 halo games, back then you ran at top speed all the time and had the ability to shoot at all times, making it a run and gun game. With reach to now h5, in order to get around the map as fast as we can, we have to put our guns down, this makes it run or gun, because I’m either running round the map trying to look for somebody, or I’m fighting somebody.
this is something fundamentally goes against what halo is, and changes the gameplay rather than adding to it. Separating movement from combat promotes pretty much most of the big issues h5 has, such as slow pace because people are always running away with sprinting, or thrustering away, because using it combat is not as effective as running away with it. Cat and mouse gameplay is pretty much encouraged as well when that rift is made.
run+gun is better for the game than run OR gun, which is what we have now.
Now, how can we fix this? Well the first thing to focus on is closing the gap between movement and combat

<em>*sprint must be removed</em>.

we know the problems this mechanic causes, it’s new penalty doesn’t fix anything, maps and sight lines are still huge, people are still running away because of the current thruster+sprint combo, not to mention how after 1 second you can’t be desprinted, allowing free movement around the map.

<em>*clamber needs to be more flexible</em>

Currently, I have to look at the wall to clamber, and I can’t shoot at all while doing it. This makes the player weaker than they should be. Shooting needs to be allowed while clambering, and not only this, but clamber should require me to look directly at the ledge I’m clambering. I should be able to clamber backwards, from the side and so on. This better empowers the player by not temporarily weakening him for the sake of movement. Also instead of a climbing animation, a simple thruster pack upward over the ledge would suffice, this is just an animation though, it would still be mapped to the clamber button. Some also point out how this invalidates skill jumps, and while that is the case currently, this can be changed by having key jumps that just simply, can’t be clambered, promoting crouch jumping or thruster pack or some combo of both.

<em>*thruster needs to not restrict shooting</em>

one of the reasons thruster is used defensively so often is because it’s more practical to. I can’t shoot while doing it, and it’s distance is insane. The distance needs to be cut down significantly, and being able to shoot while thrustering is a must. This makes it more practical to be used offensively, encouraging individual skill instead of team shot, which hasn’t been a thing since halo ce.

the separation of movement and combat simply hurts the game, and changes it instead of adding to it. Allowing shooting in all instances, and more flexible abilities actually empowers the player, rather than segmenting and weakening them.

Seriously?

I can agree on you on sprint and that the thruster needs to have a shorter distance (but not the rest) but are you serious about the clamber? It’s just as bad, if not wors, than sprint! And you want to shoot while climbing and doing it backwards?! Are you trying to make the game even more unbalanced than what it already is!?!?

Sprint wont get removed. But, I do hope for a 20% base speed increase and then have sprint speed reduced.

I liked clamber fine, thought it made game play extremely fluid and felt surprisingly natural. I do hope they move hover to in-air + squat (and ground pound to in-air + hold melee), and have it do a very small upward boost and very short momentum carryover before hovering. This way, gun-at-the-ready jump squatting becomes a viable map navigation choice.

I agree with thrusters and the ability to shoot.

Yep

Halo is supposed to be a run and gun game.

But it’s a run or gun game right now.

Sucks.

> 2535445272577794;5:
> Yep
>
> Halo is supposed to be a run and gun game.
>
> But it’s a run or gun game right now.
>
> Sucks.

It’s more than just run and gun. CoD is, core wise, run and gun aka spray and pray. Halo is a bit run and gun but it’s so much more.

> 2533274843463464;3:
> I can agree on you on sprint and that the thruster needs to have a shorter distance (but not the rest) but are you serious about the clamber? It’s just as bad, if not wors, than sprint! And you want to shoot while climbing and doing it backwards?! Are you trying to make the game even more unbalanced than what it already is!?!?

You don’t think you should be able to shoot and thruster at the same time?

Why not?

> 2533274843463464;6:
> > 2535445272577794;5:
> > Yep
> >
> > Halo is supposed to be a run and gun game.
> >
> > But it’s a run or gun game right now.
> >
> > Sucks.
>
>
> It’s more than just run and gun. CoD is, core wise, run and gun aka spray and pray. Halo is a bit run and gun but it’s so much more.

How so?

You have to literally run OR gun. You cannot do the same at the same time. It’s not debatable really.

> 2535445272577794;8:
> > 2533274843463464;6:
> > > 2535445272577794;5:
> > > Yep
> > >
> > > Halo is supposed to be a run and gun game.
> > >
> > > But it’s a run or gun game right now.
> > >
> > > Sucks.
> >
> >
> >
> > It’s more than just run and gun. CoD is, core wise, run and gun aka spray and pray. Halo is a bit run and gun but it’s so much more.
>
>
> How so?
>
> You have to literally run OR gun. You cannot do the same at the same time. It’s not debatable really.

Halo 4, reach and 5 are run and gun. Not Halo 1,2,3. Or are they? When you look at gameplay from a non-persone perspective or third-person you can clearly see they run/jogg whilst shooting. Sprinting is different from running. Sprinting is putting ALL of your energy into a quick spurt whilst running is leveling your energy with your stamina.

Anyway. Halo is run and gun, a bit of twitch and a bit of Arena. All Halo’s are run and gun, Halo reach, 4 and 5 are SPRINT or GUN. The spartans still run which makes the game a run and gun game.

> 2535445272577794;7:
> > 2533274843463464;3:
> > I can agree on you on sprint and that the thruster needs to have a shorter distance (but not the rest) but are you serious about the clamber? It’s just as bad, if not wors, than sprint! And you want to shoot while climbing and doing it backwards?! Are you trying to make the game even more unbalanced than what it already is!?!?
>
>
> You don’t think you should be able to shoot and thruster at the same time?
>
> Why not?

Lore wise it’d work but gameplay wise, no. It’s way to unbalanced. If someone thrusts away with such a massive distance you won’t be able to aim back at them unless you have a really high sensitivity which most players don’t play on. Most Halo players use between 3-5/6. And if you can thrust such a distance, AND shoot. you’d be able win flawlessly because the enemy won’t catch up to the sudden strafe.

> 2533274843463464;9:
> > 2535445272577794;8:
> > > 2533274843463464;6:
> > > > 2535445272577794;5:
> > > > Yep
> > > >
> > > > Halo is supposed to be a run and gun game.
> > > >
> > > > But it’s a run or gun game right now.
> > > >
> > > > Sucks.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It’s more than just run and gun. CoD is, core wise, run and gun aka spray and pray. Halo is a bit run and gun but it’s so much more.
> >
> >
> >
> > How so?
> >
> > You have to literally run OR gun. You cannot do the same at the same time. It’s not debatable really.
>
>
> Halo 4, reach and 5 are run and gun. Not Halo 1,2,3. Or are they? When you look at gameplay from a non-persone perspective or third-person you can clearly see they run/jogg whilst shooting. Sprinting is different from running. Sprinting is putting ALL of your energy into a quick spurt whilst running is leveling your energy with your stamina.
>
> Anyway. Halo is run and gun, a bit of twitch and a bit of Arena. All Halo’s are run and gun, Halo reach, 4 and 5 are SPRINT or GUN. The spartans still run which makes the game a run and gun game.

Reach is debatable because sprint was optional. H4 and H5 are not run and gun lol. The maps are scaled to the speed of sprint and you cannot fire while moving at that speed.

In HCE, 2 and 3 the maps were scaled to the default movement speed. So you could fire and move at the speed the map was scaled to. Making the game run and gun.

> 2533274843463464;10:
> > 2535445272577794;7:
> > > 2533274843463464;3:
> > > I can agree on you on sprint and that the thruster needs to have a shorter distance (but not the rest) but are you serious about the clamber? It’s just as bad, if not wors, than sprint! And you want to shoot while climbing and doing it backwards?! Are you trying to make the game even more unbalanced than what it already is!?!?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You don’t think you should be able to shoot and thruster at the same time?
> >
> > Why not?
>
>
>
> Lore wise it’d work but gameplay wise, no. It’s way to unbalanced. If someone thrusts away with such a massive distance you won’t be able to aim back at them unless you have a really high sensitivity which most players don’t play on. Most Halo players use between 3-5/6. And if you can thrust such a distance, AND shoot. you’d be able win flawlessly because the enemy won’t catch up to the sudden strafe.

Well, ya you’d have to reduce the range of thrust as well.

You also have to remember when a player thrusts you’re going to be just as hard for him to hit as he is for you.

a ‘run and gun’ game only implies a level of movement and weapon accuracy while engaged in combat. Regardless of sprint, Halo is indeed a run and gun game. The majority of FPS games are considered run and gun. A non run and gun game would be something like a war simulator, like the first Flashpoint or ARMA.

> 2610345319735860;13:
> a ‘run and gun’ game only implies a level of movement and weapon accuracy while engaged in combat. Regardless of sprint, Halo is indeed a run and gun game. The majority of FPS games are considered run and gun. A non run and gun game would be something like a war simulator, like the first Flashpoint or ARMA.

You’re argueing the definition of a made up genre that is totally subjective lol.

OP just means you LITERALLY cannot run and gun at the same time.

> 2533274843463464;3:
> I can agree on you on sprint and that the thruster needs to have a shorter distance (but not the rest) but are you serious about the clamber? It’s just as bad, if not wors, than sprint! And you want to shoot while climbing and doing it backwards?! Are you trying to make the game even more unbalanced than what it already is!?!?

How in any way is clamber worse than sprint? And your reasoning for no shoot and thrust doesn’t take into account the shorter distance. The problem with clamber is that it removes skill jumps(I’ve provided a solution to this), and forces the player to look in a certain direction and are unable to defend themselves, this makes the player unnecessarily weak, and forces them to use clamber to aid in running away. If you allow it to be used in every situation, then good players destroy bad players with it.

> 2535445272577794;14:
> > 2610345319735860;13:
> > a ‘run and gun’ game only implies a level of movement and weapon accuracy while engaged in combat. Regardless of sprint, Halo is indeed a run and gun game. The majority of FPS games are considered run and gun. A non run and gun game would be something like a war simulator, like the first Flashpoint or ARMA.
>
>
> You’re argueing the definition of a made up genre that is totally subjective lol.
>
> OP just means you LITERALLY cannot run and gun at the same time.

I was actually replying to the comments from ZeonZz, not the OP, just making a point of clarification on weather or not Halo would be considered a ‘run and gun’ game. Which it absolutely is. Even counter strike is a run and gun game. But, there is a sub-set of the FPS genera which is not considered run and gun, like war simulators which attempt to approximate realistic movement and accuracy.

Also, somewhat on topic, I have massively undervalued SLIDE! Yes, slide. The number 1 “gimmick” in Halo 5. I never used it once, never. I only saw it get used, idk maybe once or twice.

But, slide brings the gun to the ready almost immediately. I wish I knew that during the Beta, I think I would have actually used slide.

> 2610345319735860;17:
> Also, somewhat on topic, I have massively undervalued SLIDE! Yes, slide. The number 1 “gimmick” in Halo 5. I never used it once, never. I only saw it get used, idk maybe once or twice.
>
> But, slide brings the gun to the ready almost immediately. I wish I knew that during the Beta, I think I would have actually used slide.

I used it a few times, it would be more useful if it was mapped to thruster, it has potential to be beneficial.

Thruster:
I used thruster offensively - it can be used to throw off the other players aim and then line up a headshot - got to the point where I’d know where to aim so that when I came out of thruster, my crosshair was basically on top of the enemy players head. It took me a couple of weeks to figure it out, but it definitely CAN be used offensively.
Clamber:
I also figured out how to clamber sideways without looking directly at the wall (note: the ledge just needs to be in your FOV, even the edge of the screen).
I do wish you could shoot while clambering though - I’ve been killed because of it a few times. This is my only complaint with clamber.

Sprint:
I don’t mind sprint at all - if you want to run and gun, don’t use sprint. If you want to focus on running as fast as possible, then use sprint. It adds another level of strategic thinking to the game - is sprinting worth the risk or not?

> 2533274851609386;19:
> Thruster:
> I used thruster offensively - it can be used to throw off the other players aim and then line up a headshot - got to the point where I’d know where to aim so that when I came out of thruster, my crosshair was basically on top of the enemy players head. It took me a couple of weeks to figure it out, but it definitely CAN be used offensively.
> Clamber:
> I also figured out how to clamber sideways without looking directly at the wall (note: the ledge just needs to be in your FOV, even the edge of the screen).
> I do wish you could shoot while clambering though - I’ve been killed because of it a few times. This is my only complaint with clamber.
>
> Sprint:
> I don’t mind sprint at all - if you want to run and gun, don’t use sprint. If you want to focus on running as fast as possible, then use sprint. It adds another level of strategic thinking to the game - is sprinting worth the risk or not?

If I didn’t sprint I’d be walking around a map that was designed around sprint, so no, not sprinting, the way the game is currently designed, is stupid. Having no sprint and smaller maps with a faster base speed is simpler, better balanced, and helps facilitate a better pace when combined with map design. It absolutely adds no “new level of strategic thinking”, anyone with half a brain can understand that bullets are bad and it’s better to run away from them.