Cobra's Loadout/AA/Ordinance Alternative

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I’ve been looking at all the various loadout, armor ability, etc suggestions and I think I might have found something most people may enjoy. That said, I know it probably won’t get everyone to agree and that is okay. My point here is to provide a foundation where old and new can meet and go from there. I don’t want to leave a bare-bones Halo or have a Halo with so many features that it doesn’t resemble Halo anymore.

Loadouts: The Loadouts are spread out in three columns, UNSC, Covenant, Forerunner. In the UNSC column, you can choose an AR, BR or DMR. The Covenant column has the Storm/Plasma Rifle, Carbine or Needle Rifle. The Forerunner column has the Suppressor and Light Rifle. All three columns share 2x frag grenades and a magnum secondary. With this system, you still give people variety in their choices with short-range, medium-range and long-range rifles. Having magnums consist among all the loadouts gives players a component side-arm no matter their choice and doesn’t encourage camping (with the Boltshot) or ruin vehicle combat (with the Plasma Pistol).

Armor Abilities: I came up with something that incorporates both armor abilities and equipment. I’ve reduced the armor ability options to Jetpack, Promethean vision, Hardlight Shield and Hologram. Equipment would include the Bubble Shield, Power Drain, Regeneration Field and I’ve moved Auto Sentry to Equipment. All would be map pick-ups, but you can only have one or the other. So if you can Jetpack, you can’t also have something like the Power Drain. The main difference would be that Equipment would be one-time use, while Armor Abilities would last as long as you are alive. I think this would cut down on the inherent randomness associated with AAs on spawn.

Ordinance: Yes, I am throwing in Ordinance, but hear me out on this one. Don’t expect to get any power weapons, instead Ordinance would supply one of two sets of power-ups. One would include Overshield or Active Camo and the other would include Damage Boost or Speed Boost. Now, I loved DB and SB in Halo 4, so I didn’t want to trash them. Meanwhile, I wanted to put Active Camo back in its roots as a power-up and thus remove it as a problem with Armor Abilities. Now, I know having either one pop-up in Ordinance may seem like randomness, but I believe it would be controlled randomness as you know there are only two options with two choices each and all of them have tell-tale colors associated with whatever they have, you know, red with DB, green with OS, etc. I would also make sure you could not stack power-ups, so if you have OS on and your buddy offers you his DB, you would lose your OS and get the DB instead.

So there you guys go. I can’t wait to see what you guys say and do with the concept.

2

Oh my…Cobra…OH MY GOSH…
This is it you have done it…oh my I 300% agree with all of this…I wish I could thank someone an infinite amount of times! ^.^

3

I like this a whole lot better than the other threads that basically go “Loadouts need to go, this isn’t COD”. Halo needs to evolve and change whether people like it or not.

4

Don’t like it Cobra. It is too limiting to players.

For the loadouts I like how you still allow a primary weapon choice but mandatory frags and magnum? That simply will not do. I like to use plasmas for some loadouts like on my storm rifle class, I find them much more useful than frags due to me being to close to foes to make use of frags most of the time. The magnum is not as useful for certain loadouts either.

I don’t like how you cut out some armor abilities. Camo and thruster pack are two I like and don’t want them gone. We don’t need equipment that was a failed halo 3 experiment replaced by AAs rightfully. We need new AAs for halo 5 while keeping the current ones.

We don’t want to shrink ordnance to naught but a power up, quite the contrary it needs to be expanded past a power up or a power weapon.

5

Cobra one question since AAs would be on map…could evade come back do you think?

6

> Cobra one question since AAs would be on map…could evade come back do you think?

That would be a tough one, along with sprint. I know others would disagree, but I think evade would be cool as a general movement. How you balance it out and incorporate it with the possibility of sprint eludes me. On another note, if sprint returns, then you should slow down when shot, nip the Resistor perk in the bud. Otherwise, bump up the movement speed to negate the need for sprint.

7

> Don’t like it Cobra. It is too limiting to players.
>
> For the loadouts I like how you still allow a primary weapon choice but mandatory frags and magnum? That simply will not do. I like to use plasmas for some loadouts like on my storm rifle class, I find them much more useful than frags due to me being to close to foes to make use of frags most of the time. The magnum is not as useful for certain loadouts either.

I love plasma grenades as well, but when available right on spawn they hurt vehicle combat. I understand the magnum may not be ideal for most players, but other weapons would be available on the map so you could ditch the pistol if you so choose.

> I don’t like how you cut out some armor abilities. Camo and thruster pack are two I like and don’t want them gone. We don’t need equipment that was a failed halo 3 experiment replaced by AAs rightfully. We need new AAs for halo 5 while keeping the current ones.

I would have to disagree with Equipment being a failed concept seeing as Armor Abilities are simply an evolution of the concept, so the two existing side-by-side doesn’t seem to present much of a problem with gameplay, but I’m sure someone could provide an in-depth explanation as to why that may not be the case. Thrust can come back as an Armor Ability, my list is merely a work-in-progress and may very well be in flux. But Active Camo is far to broken to continue as a spawnable Armor Ability, much like Armor Lock us. Too may benefits without any downsides.

I don’t think you’ll win over many people with adding MORE Armor Abilities

> We don’t want to shrink ordnance to naught but a power up, quite the contrary it needs to be expanded past a power up or a power weapon.

I don’t think that will be too viable without adding too much randomness as Ordinance as it currently exists does.

8

I totally agree not only would have some skill to it (not much but still I say this while thinking about how I still have full control of sprint while you do not with evade) it would give halo way more pros then cons (if it replaces sprint) plus it is more unique IMO then sprint.

Also…Would you be open to needle pistol and/or pistol to if anything give an illusion of choice.

9

Hmmmm…yes indeed! It all makes sense now! BRILLIANT!
Turns away from TV. Sees Waypoint thread
Oh, yeah. I’m not all in, but not all out on this one. Great ideas, kudos to you. So I’m going to break up my responses and ideas into the sections like how you have them.

Loadouts-
I’d be fine with this. I pretty much have this same thing set up as my Halo 4 loadouts (one for UNSC, Covie, and Forerunner, other 2 for special gametypes). The thing that I’d have to adapt to though is the lack of Plasma grenades. Man, I relied on those things until I was like SR-70. I’d get over it. Question: would these grenades (along with possibly the Pulse) still be located around the map? Other than that, and maybe the issue not to mix-n-match different factions’ weapons, I’m all in.

AA-
I’m completely in favor of this. Although I’ll admit I tend to use Active Camo frequently, I’m fine seeing it limited to an Ordnance drop. Also, the return of equipment choices is a must.

Ordnance-
HEAVENS NO I NEED MY POWER WEAPONS! Okay…maybe. Too limiting, IMO, but it could work. But, I have a little addition: When the ‘Ordnance Ready’ message comes in, don’t pick it up right away. Once the selection is available, a new counter starts OR a challenge appears on the HUD. Meet the requirement of that counter/challenge, and a random power weapon appears as an option.

10

> Loadouts-
> I’d be fine with this. I pretty much have this same thing set up as my Halo 4 loadouts (one for UNSC, Covie, and Forerunner, other 2 for special gametypes). The thing that I’d have to adapt to though is the lack of Plasma grenades. Man, I relied on those things until I was like SR-70. I’d get over it. Question: would these grenades (along with possibly the Pulse) still be located around the map? Other than that, and maybe the issue not to mix-n-match different factions’ weapons, I’m all in.

Correct, other grenades are still available on the map.

> Ordnance-
> HEAVENS NO I NEED MY POWER WEAPONS! Okay…maybe. Too limiting, IMO, but it could work. But, I have a little addition: When the ‘Ordnance Ready’ message comes in, don’t pick it up right away. Once the selection is available, a new counter starts OR a challenge appears on the HUD. Meet the requirement of that counter/challenge, and a random power weapon appears as an option.

I feel that power weapons on Ordinance is too random to work satisfactorily. It really does come down to luck in the end and I doubt anyone enjoys being the guy stuck with the Concussion Rifle on a large map when someone else on the enemy teams gets a 1HK Binary Rifle. Power weapons are something that should be fought for in my opinion.

11

I detest the idea of Custom Loadouts with the only choice being a primary weapon. If this is the case, why not just revert to Reach-style preset Loadouts? I also think that secondary weapons should offer a choice. Obviously the BS and the PP have no place in there, but other weapons could. Perhaps the return of the SMG and the Plasma Rifle (which would be to the AR and SR what the pistol is to the DMR)…

In Armor Abilities, I agree that Jet Pack can not be obtained at spawn, but should be on the map. Active Camo should be a power up, like you said, and should just be a timed burst of complete invisibility- none of that fade-when-you-walk stuff which makes people camp all the time. I do think that Armor Abilities like Thruster Pack and Hologram will do no harm in Loadouts, though. So what I suggest is to split them into two subsets: Power AAs and Spawn AAs.

Power AAs would only spawn on the map and only in specific maps (and custom games). A lot of overpowered ideas could come here (like Jet Pack, and maybe some AAs built specifically for Campaign). Spawn AAs would be relatively mild and completely balanced- Thrusters, Hologram and the like which really don’t do any damage in Loadouts.

Personal ordnance drops for power ups is okay, I guess, but I’d rather see that feature go away…

12

Im Half/Half on your Ideas Cobra. The ordinance and AAs and im not liking, but your weapon system is nice, But I would add that some secondary weapon choice would be nice, if we could successfully create weapon niches that fir the bill.

so here are my Ideas:

Needle Pistol:

So this Has been thrown about alot. The needle pistol would be our Needle Rifle/DMR relationship, but as a Magnum/Needle Pistol equivalent. So in other words, in the way, the magnum is like a DMR more suited for CQC (Reach’s is my example here, being the same shots to kill as the DMR, but could be fired more rapidly) with its 2x scope. the Needle pistol would have a 1.5x scope, be a 7 shot kill, and have a 12 shot magazine. But it wouldn’t have the full auto feature.

In Campaign, we could see a return of skirmishers, and this would be thier signature weapon, blending the marksmen and lightweight traits of the Reach skirmishers, and giving them a weapon befitting of their nature

Hardlight Repeater

So this would be the Promethean/Forerunner sidearm. This weapon would have a high fire rate, have no zoom, have a high level of vertical recoil, be a 8 shot kill with a 9 shot magazine, be fully automatic and headshot capable. This weapon would have a shorter kill time than the magnum and needle pistol (but not by to much) but due to it’s recoil and lower magazine count, it’s more punishing if you slip up, so it isn’t just some spammer’s dream. Missing just two shots means you will most likely die.

I like choosing my weapons for Halo’s future, but personal ordinance and AAs from spawn, I feel needs to go. It’s enough to choose our weapons.

Also, I think 1 grenade would be a better idea, to reduce grenade spamming. to compensate, grenades would be stronger (not as strong as Halo reach’s though) But frags only i agree with. enough with the Halo Plasma Martyrdom and vehicle fireworks display Halo 4 gave us.

13

I somehow fail to see why innovation has to be bound to the things Halo 4 brought up though we’ve seen it fail in this game.

PODs: I know it gives not-so-good players a chance to earn something. But does it really stimulate you the same way as if you are fighting for a weapon/pick up on the map? Does it “force” players to learn the map and improve your knowledge or skill in general? No, it just generates a short time happiness and gives you an unfair advantage to your opponent because he/she can’t know when you activate it and what you received.
I don’t want to see Personal Ordnance Drops to come back because players don’t necessarily need to know the weapon/pick up placements/times since these come to them (I’m talking about Halo 4s version).

We need to scrap this player-centered gameplay. The fact that everything would come to you instead of fighting for it and the fact that you don’t need to win anymore to earn XP but just need to grind the game was toxic to the Halo MP because it caused players to play the game for themselves and not for the team.

I see that many people want to see innovation for Halo 5 MP but if something is broken either fix it or get rid of it. And I see now way to fix things like POD drops because in any way this “personal” is breaking the game.

A different approach to this Ordnance drop could be something like this:
You can find stationary “Drop Zones” that either give you the choice between 3 different power weapons or 3 different power ups. So you can choose between 3 different things and you need to know what’s going in the game to make the best decision but you still have the choice to pick your favorite, if you want to.
But the thing is that it doesn’t come to you instead you have to fight for the control of this position which offers a huge advantage.

Loadouts: I would like to see different type of Slayer Modes. Short Range, Mid Range and of course Long Range Weapon Slayer. For each of these modes a preset favorite can be chosen. (I think someone else in this forum had a similar idea, if yes all credits to him/her)

14

> Im Half/Half on your Ideas Cobra. The ordinance and AAs and im not liking, but your weapon system is nice, But I would add that some secondary weapon choice would be nice, if we could successfully create weapon niches that fir the bill.
>
> so here are my Ideas:
>
> Needle Pistol:
>
> So this Has been thrown about alot. The needle pistol would be our Needle Rifle/DMR relationship, but as a Magnum/Needle Pistol equivalent. So in other words, in the way, the magnum is like a DMR more suited for CQC (Reach’s is my example here, being the same shots to kill as the DMR, but could be fired more rapidly) with its 2x scope. the Needle pistol would have a 1.5x scope, be a 7 shot kill, and have a 12 shot magazine. But it wouldn’t have the full auto feature.
>
> In Campaign, we could see a return of skirmishers, and this would be thier signature weapon, blending the marksmen and lightweight traits of the Reach skirmishers, and giving them a weapon befitting of their nature
>
> Dual Needle Pistols, with the wrist shielding and agility… would make quite the opponents.
>
> Hardlight Repeater
>
> So this would be the Promethean/Forerunner sidearm. This weapon would have a high fire rate, have no zoom, have a high level of vertical recoil, be a 8 shot kill with a 9 shot magazine, be fully automatic and headshot capable. This weapon would have a shorter kill time than the magnum and needle pistol (but not by to much) but due to it’s recoil and lower magazine count, it’s more punishing if you slip up, so it isn’t just some spammer’s dream. Missing just two shots means you will most likely die.
>
> Cool Concept… sorta like the Gears of War Gorgon Pistol? I agree the vertical recoil makes alot of sense… and great way to balance it with the one kill per mag… and requires skill.
>
> I like choosing my weapons for Halo’s future, but personal ordinance and AAs from spawn, I feel needs to go. It’s enough to choose our weapons.
>
> Also, I think 1 grenade would be a better idea, to reduce grenade spamming. to compensate, grenades would be stronger (not as strong as Halo reach’s though) But frags only i agree with. enough with the Halo Plasma Martyrdom and vehicle fireworks display Halo 4 gave us.

15

I agree with the first one, but the 2 other ones…

> Armor Abilities: I came up with something that incorporates both armor abilities and equipment. I’ve reduced the armor ability options to Jetpack, Promethean vision, Hardlight Shield and Hologram. Equipment would include the Bubble Shield, Power Drain, Regeneration Field and I’ve moved Auto Sentry to Equipment. All would be map pick-ups, but you can only have one or the other. So if you can Jetpack, you can’t also have something like the Power Drain. The main difference would be that Equipment would be one-time use, while Armor Abilities would last as long as you are alive. I think this would cut down on the inherent randomness associated with AAs on spawn.

I would like it more if there were no AA’s that you could spawn with, instead they should be like Equipment in Halo 3 and spawn on the map.

> Ordinance: Yes, I am throwing in Ordinance, but hear me out on this one. Don’t expect to get any power weapons, instead Ordinance would supply one of two sets of power-ups. One would include Overshield or Active Camo and the other would include Damage Boost or Speed Boost. Now, I loved DB and SB in Halo 4, so I didn’t want to trash them. Meanwhile, I wanted to put Active Camo back in its roots as a power-up and thus remove it as a problem with Armor Abilities. Now, I know having either one pop-up in Ordinance may seem like randomness, but I believe it would be controlled randomness as you know there are only two options with two choices each and all of them have tell-tale colors associated with whatever they have, you know, red with DB, green with OS, etc. I would also make sure you could not stack power-ups, so if you have OS on and your buddy offers you his DB, you would lose your OS and get the DB instead.

And, i would seriously prefer an ordinance system that would let you choose between Primary ammo re-stock, secondary ammo re-stock or grenade re-stock.

16

Would Truster Pack still be an AA, and would Promethean Vision/Jetpack receive any nerfs?

I think I would prefer a wider range of secondary options, but I can also see why the Plasma Pistol and Boltshot might be a little too specialized and powerful. This is what I would do-

UNSC- Magnum/SMG
Covenant- Needle Pistol/Plasma Rifle
Forerunner- Bishop Revolver/Mini-Sentinel Beam
Brute (Because we need more Brute stuff too) - Spiker (reduced RoF and headshot damage multiplier)/Mauler

Then you’ve got more variety, but in the form of weapons which fit either into a precision or automatic role, with different effective ranges/firing rates/damage rates separating them.

17

> I agree with the first one, but the 2 other ones…
>
>
>
> > Armor Abilities: I came up with something that incorporates both armor abilities and equipment. I’ve reduced the armor ability options to Jetpack, Promethean vision, Hardlight Shield and Hologram. Equipment would include the Bubble Shield, Power Drain, Regeneration Field and I’ve moved Auto Sentry to Equipment. All would be map pick-ups, but you can only have one or the other. So if you can Jetpack, you can’t also have something like the Power Drain. The main difference would be that Equipment would be one-time use, while Armor Abilities would last as long as you are alive. I think this would cut down on the inherent randomness associated with AAs on spawn.
>
> I would like it more if there were no AA’s that you could spawn with, instead they should be like Equipment in Halo 3 and spawn on the map.
>
>
>
> > Ordinance: Yes, I am throwing in Ordinance, but hear me out on this one. Don’t expect to get any power weapons, instead Ordinance would supply one of two sets of power-ups. One would include Overshield or Active Camo and the other would include Damage Boost or Speed Boost. Now, I loved DB and SB in Halo 4, so I didn’t want to trash them. Meanwhile, I wanted to put Active Camo back in its roots as a power-up and thus remove it as a problem with Armor Abilities. Now, I know having either one pop-up in Ordinance may seem like randomness, but I believe it would be controlled randomness as you know there are only two options with two choices each and all of them have tell-tale colors associated with whatever they have, you know, red with DB, green with OS, etc. I would also make sure you could not stack power-ups, so if you have OS on and your buddy offers you his DB, you would lose your OS and get the DB instead.
>
> And, i would seriously prefer an ordinance system that would let you choose between Primary ammo re-stock, secondary ammo re-stock or grenade re-stock.

I agree with the first one… you stated… notable ones are the mobility changing AA/Equipment Thruster Pack and Jet Pack.

Thruster Pack and Jet Pack could return but as equipment they have fuel. Thruster Pack 3 Charges (Large burst of acceleration takes a 1/3 fuel from tank)… while Jet Pack has 1 Long Charge (burst of acceleration takes away small amounts of fuel over time). After the packs run out of fuel they are dumped… due to needless weight… and so during detachment the spartan is immobilized for a slight time, which is an animation (1 - 2 tops nothing more). This way the equipment has a benefit and hindrance… risk over reward. The idea of immobilization is to give the other players a fairness… so in terms of equality… one player gets a boost in mobility, and so to balance the battlefield, the other player needs a boost… or perhaps just the starting player needs a hindrance… this way the first player still gets his reward for acquiring the equipment thus having his short-lived advantage yet afterward the other player… if skilled enough for surviving… has a chance for payback.

This could be the immobilization/pack detachment animation

18

If we are going to have loadouts at all then lets not bother with ‘Primaries’ or ‘Secondaries’ and just have a pick two system.

I hate seeing the magnum get shafted because of loadouts(or previously because of dual wielding). Nor do I want to see crappy magnum clones like the Needle Pistol added for ‘variety’.

As far as AAs go Jetpack, Promethean Vision, and Hardlight are still to powerful for everyone to have one at any given time. I would rather have no Sprint with a First-Person Thruster default, but other than that the only AA other AA that has been relatively inoffensive has been hologram. I do agree with the sentiment of having both AAs and Equipment as the “fourth leg of fun.”

EDIT: I misinterpreted the OP and thought that we would still spawn with AAs but that is not the case. Then I totally agree with AA/Equipment idea.

As for Ordnance… just no. There is no way to balance them well. They are either filled with far to powerful equipment(Power ups included) or they will just end up being clutter(if it is just grenades/AAs/Loadout weapons). There’s no saving ordnance.

19

I can work with the load out idea but not ordinance and armor abilities. I’m not against AA’s just some of the ones you chose like promethean vision. And honestly I just think ordinance needs to be scrapped

20

I don’t know, I can’t say that I agree with all of this.

For the Loadouts, you’re definitely going in the right direction. However, I think that we should be more limited in our weapon options. The Light Rifle, Needle Rifle and DMR, being long-ranged weapons, should be limited to on-map pickups. The Suppressor should be a bit more powerful too, then stuck on the map as a semi-power weapon. Think the SAW, but not as insanely overpowered. That way, we are left with the choice between BR, AR, Carbine and Storm Rifle/Plasma Rifle. We still get our choices depending on what we prefer, but it still leaves in the aspect of having to pick up the right weapon for the situation off of the ground, which was present in past Halo games. Since players won’t start with long-ranged weapons, map movement will be promoted, as players will either have to move in closer for the kill, or scour the map for the weapon they need.

For Armour Abilities, that sounds almost perfect, no arguments here. The one thing I dislike is the Jetpack as it is now. Perhaps it could have a decent amount more fuel than it does now, perhaps 2-3x, but it doesn’t recharge? That way, it would fall into the category of Equipment rather than Armour Ability, but still keep its use without being too too powerful.

As for Ordnance, I have to disagree completely. While I appreciate what you’re trying to do, and would definitely prefer your idea to what we have now, I would very much like to see powerups return to being on the map. Speed Boost and Damage Boost are great ideas, I agree, but giving every player the chance to have multiple of them in the same game is just too much. In the original trilogy, the powerups really meant something. If you got an Overshield, you were a threat, and could do some damage if you played smart, but you still had to earn it like any other power weapon.

Just my two cents.