Clueless players

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Is it just me but the skill level of some kids in this game is questionable… Not understanding simple things such as get in the hill in koth capture the flag take the flag to the enimie base… The RT button makes bullets come out…
It’s so stressful getting paired into games with these kids and losing games because of them

It happens.

This is why I wish there was a ranked system so I could get more competent teammates on a consistent basis. I forgot the feeling of players who had my back and knew what team shooting was. In Halo 4 (and reach) it’s basically a shooting gallery and hit and miss of who ends up on your team. No way to tell the game “give me harder players to face” which in turn means you’ll get better teammates to balance it out.

I know new players have to start somewhere but this is exactly why a ranking system would fix that. No inexperienced players going against and playing with people who clearly are way above the skill gap. It creates a very frustrating environment for all players. New players can’t learn and good players keep demanding more from their teammates who clearly lack the ability to fill those requests.

CSR doesn’t mean much either. A CSR 50 is like a Master Sergeant of Halo 3 … basically nothing. With JIP it makes the unbalanced matches even more frequent too. So we see lots of new players getting matched with experienced players and just what you explained is exactly what happens.

Teams should match against teams individuals should match against themselves… Csr is so flawed you win games you go down you lose you go down then 343 delete the playlist or reset your 50…
As soon as kids get a 50 they stop playing the playlist cause it’s so easy to rank down

> Teams should match against teams individuals should match against themselves… Csr is so flawed you win games you go down you lose you go down then 343 delete the playlist or reset your 50…
> As soon as kids get a 50 they stop playing the playlist cause it’s so easy to rank down

Yeah, nothing is more fun than trying to play BTB only to see you’ve been paired with CSR 20’s and lower and the other team is a full party of matching gamertags that were CSR 40+. The match goes real well (not).

That has happened to me several times, no joke. I’ll get teammates who practically feed kills to the enemy party going like 2 kills and 20 deaths and I will be in the base ending the match with a sad 6-3 because I was unable to do anything with teammates who cannot even push out of the base. It’s not their fault though. It’s the system’s fault for thinking that would be a fair match.

Not everyone is real good with a controller and some are new to it so it’s very foreign to them much like using a keyboard and mouse for a FPS like battlefield is to me (or used to be). This issue isn’t all those inexperienced players all of the sudden popping out of the wood works, they’ve been around before the days of even Halo 2 matchmaking when I’d go to LAN parties for Halo Combat Evolved. The reason you see more of them is the poor matching systems we have these days. People sure complained a lot about Halo 2 and 3’s skill system becasue of people who bragged too much about a rank or the minor cheating but it did it’s job wonderfully in hiding those inexperienced players from you though. For example, when I became a 50 trueskill in say team slayer the ‘worst’ player I could get on my team would be a lvl 40. In Reach and 4 you feel like no one knows how to play Halo because the system just throws people together to make search times faster and due to lower population as well. This is turns makes the quality and consistency of enjoyable matches much less unfortunately. You find yourself partied with groups of guests, players with 0 exp since they just started, or even worse AFK players.

The only real way to fix this is play with friends, but then (at least for me) I feel like getting off the game after 4 matches because the steam rolling through of helpless foes is way too boring to me. I only get real satisfaction of winning when it means something like ranking up in trueskill but since CSR is so useless and only on a web browser I don’t feel much reward there … I honestly could care less if I de-ranked or ranked up in CSR. But CSR is another topic for another day lol

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

BTB so easy even with -Yoink- team mates totally agree with the whole kill feeding just run out and die then you just have to play aggressive to counter them dying so much I can live with it in big team but when your going 48 and 0 in team slayer and lose due to teammates it’s a joke those little kids should get banned…
this is why we need a social slayer playlist
I’ve played so many games in.decent teams and have high profile players dodge us so they don’t take a loss

Reach had a better matchmaking system

I played with one that asked me what CTF is.
LOL
Yeah sometimes I can only shake my head.

I can remember trying to get a 50 in the DLC playlists played a game on shatter I was playing with a friend against a team and we were thrashing them got a flag to the bridge ramp got team shot died some noob picked up the flag and ran it to the other base…
Then 2 randoms quit when we are winning…
And you can guess what happened…

Some kids just don’t wanna win…

I wonder if you made these threads just to see how many times you could call your opponents “kids” and “noobs”. Because, you know, doing that automatically makes you awesome.

Funny that you complain about how some “kids” are so bad that it’s frustrating and that they should be banned - but those are the “kids” that you seem to have no problem playing against . . . and then simultaneously complaining about “kids” quitting on you when your quit rate is 11% because you quit when playing teams of comparable or higher skill ranks.

Edited by Moderator - Please refrain from making nonconstructive posts.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> I wonder if you made these threads just to see how many times you could call your opponents “kids” and “noobs”. Because, you know, doing that automatically makes you awesome.
>
> Funny that you complain about how some “kids” are so bad that it’s frustrating and that they should be banned - but those are the “kids” that you seem to have no problem playing against . . . and then simultaneously complaining about “kids” quitting on you when your quit rate is 11% because you quit when playing teams of comparable or higher skill ranks.

Thats freakin funny. The OP is complaining about noobs when, in fact, he is no better than one.
Well in any case, I’m not sure why this thread was made. All the OP has done so far is call other players “noobs” and “kids”. In my opinion, the only players who are privileged to call another player a noob are the pros. Most certainly not someone who goes 3-3 in a game.

Keep in mind that each word links to a different game . . . and all of them are from the first few pages of his recent games.

The term noobs and kids is one often over used on this forum, imo usually by people who allow their ego to over ride their brain. As a noob myself I don’t find the term offensive, I have been using this forum long enough to know better.
However, I can see how it would annoy a lot of newcomers, another neat way to divide our community.
Noobs and kids do not decide in the lobby who they will be matched against. And I am sure they do not enjoy being destroyed by a team of csr50’s etc. All this does is drives potential new players from halo. My aim when I go into a game, is for my team to win, and I’m sure it is the same for many other noobs and kids, we aren’t all stupid and clueless.

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Love it being called a noob when i average 30+ kills in capture don’t play in team…
Im talking about the kids who sit in warthogs and -Yoink-
Funny enough I don’t wanna play matches with kids who aren’t even moving… I’m not gonna play…
Jedi talking -Yoink- when he only plays grifball…

The fact I used to team and ctf and that we were unbeaten I find it funny coming from cabooze someone has been slayed to much and has turned into a keyboard warrior!!!

> I wonder if you made these threads just to see how many times you could call your opponents “kids” and “noobs”. Because, you know, doing that automatically makes you awesome.
>
> Funny that you complain about how some “kids” are so bad that it’s frustrating and that they should be banned - but those are the “kids” that you seem to have no problem playing against . . . and then simultaneously complaining about “kids” quitting on you when your quit rate is 11% because you quit when playing teams of comparable or higher skill ranks.

No problem playing against? Because he is going 22-1 against players that dont know how to walk straight or pick up a gun? What should he have done instead in that game? Kill himself or quit to make the match look more fair?
And then you post games where his teammates go 0-21, 1-14 and 0-2 making a total of ONE kill in a whole match? Thats pretty much what he is complaining about. o_0 Doesnt matter if he goes -1 and quits or goes +20.

And of course he does quit matches like that, why shouldt he? You may dont know how frustrating it is to go clutch and rack up kill after kill for your team only to see you losing because your mates are running into top mid backwards. He was complaining about 2 teammates quitting in his team while winning in an objective gametype which is almost an automatic loss. Thats different to quitting in a slayer match that is already lost.

And CSR doesnt mean or cause anything.

No offense against you. The words he used werent good but I get what he wants to say.

I’ve been having this problem at least since June of last year (perhaps longer, but that’s when I started paying attention). I don’t think the problem is CSR, JiP, or low population; I think Halo 4 just doesn’t or isn’t capable of making good skill matches. I can’t even remember the last time I played a match where K/D spreads didn’t vary from -8 to +8 from the worst to the best player. I miss my skillful Halo with competitive players.

> No problem playing against? Because he is going 22-1 against players that dont know how to walk straight or pick up a gun? What should he have done instead in that game? Kill himself or quit to make the match look more fair?

Not at all. But there is no excuse for making derogatory posts. None. Zero. He is the type of player whom I instantly mute in lobbies because he only knows how to put others down. Were he as skilled as what he believes himself to be, he would have no need to do that.

> And then you post games where his teammates go 0-21, 1-14 and 0-2 making a total of ONE kill in a whole match? Thats pretty much what he is complaining about. o_0 Doesnt matter if he goes -1 and quits or goes +20.

The reason his teammates did so poorly was because he quit. He didn’t quit because someone went 0-21. That didn’t happen until he was long gone. He played maybe 2 minutes of that match. And that’s not the only game on there, either. Each word links to a different game. What about your comments on those?

Here. Try a few others as well:

What about this one? He quits when the score is 130 - 200.

Or this one. He quits after 2 minutes in KoTH, where the other team could have been winning by at most 20 or 30 hill points.

What about this one? He quits when the score is 190 - 320. Final score: 280 - 600.

How about this? He quits when the score is 120 - 130. His personal score? 1-4. Should he call himself the nooby kid in that one?

That’s just from yesterday - and it’s not all of them, either. Nor does he show a consistent pattern of being by far the best player surrounded by a bunch of idiots. His consistent pattern is when he is doing poorly, he quits, and the rest of the team suffers through the remainder of the game shorthanded. If you feel that is the right thing for him to do, then you, sir, are one of the players I do not like to play with - though I wasn’t criticizing him for that. I was criticizing him for being obnoxiously insulting and complaining about overmatched players quitting while simultaneously doing the exact same thing himself.

> And of course he does quit matches like that, why shouldt he? You may dont know how frustrating it is to go clutch and rack up kill after kill for your team only to see you losing because your mates are running into top mid backwards. He was complaining about 2 teammates quitting in his team while winning in an objective gametype which is almost an automatic loss. Thats different to quitting in a slayer match that is already lost.

I am quite positive that happens sometimes. I am also quite positive that those instances account for a small percentage of his quits.

> No offense against you. The words he used werent good but I get what he wants to say.

I understand his frustration with matching. I do. I see it myself. I must have nearly a hundred posts on these forums asking for changes and making suggestions to improve matching. However, if his problem is with matchmaking, then his post should be about matchmaking. Instead, his post (and his other posts) were about how much other players blow monkey balls and shouldn’t be allowed to play the game. That’s not an appropriate or helpful suggestion. It’s poor sportsmanship and arrogance. His posts were about feeding his own bloated ego by putting others down.

Had he decided to criticize the matching process instead of insulting players, I would have given him a thumbs up, maybe made a statement of commiseration, and moved on. The matchmaking algorithm in H4 does not work well. It is a constant source of frustration for everyone who plays. That includes, by the way, those players who get thrown into matches where they are embarrassingly overmatched. You think they want to go 1-21? You think they’re having fun? What about their frustration? Does their frustration make it okay for them to run around the forums calling you a tryhard and wannabe and hack and cheater because, you know, the words they used weren’t good, but you get what they’re trying to say? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

There is no call for him insulting those players or asking for them to be banned - especially when he displays the very same quit behavior that he claims to hate in others.

By the way:

> I find it funny coming from cabooze someone has been slayed to much and has turned into a keyboard warrior!!!

Note how the obnoxiousness continues.

And Lux:

> when i average 30+ kills in capture don’t play in team…

But you don’t. You average 18 kills a game in CTF (882 games, 16,115 kills) . . . which is about half of what you claim. And when it comes to an arguably more important stat for CTF - flag caps - you average 0.5 per game (455 caps) . . . and so do I (732 games, 364 caps). I’m not a good player, by the way. You would wax the floor with me, just as I can wax the floor with some I play against. The difference between us is that I don’t try to make myself out to be the best thing since individually wrapped slices of cheese by insulting those who are less skilled.

> I’ve been having this problem at least since June of last year (perhaps longer, but that’s when I started paying attention). I don’t think the problem is CSR, JiP, or low population; I think Halo 4 just doesn’t or isn’t capable of making good skill matches. I can’t even remember the last time I played a match where K/D spreads didn’t vary from -8 to +8 from the worst to the best player. I miss my skillful Halo with competitive players.

I’ve noticed the same thing. I have no idea what it is, because it persists even in 4v4 and BTB, which certainly have a high enough population not to need to throw players with wildly different skills into the same match.

It’s not CSR - the scores usually shake out approximately like CSR says they should. The real problem is why those players are being put into the same match together. Their CSRs say they shouldn’t be.

> Here. Try a few others as well:

I agree with the theme of your post, but I want to provide an additional point-of-view on this. I can usually tell within the first 30-60 seconds of a game how it’s going to play out based on how quickly one team takes the lead, whether my teammates rushed to control the power weapons, how coordinated they are, how coordinated the other team is, who has better control of the map, if the players are able to clean up each others’ near-kills, etc. If I can determine that me and/or my teammates are simply outmatched by the other team, then as far as I’m concerned, we’ve already lost.

Now, sometimes, if the enemy team isn’t too good, I will continue to play as long as I can maintain a positive K/D spread, even if that means not playing the objective. But other times, I simply cannot take on all four enemy players by myself. If I cannot maintain a positive K/D, if I can’t rely on my teammates, and if I can tell that we have zero possibility of winning, I consider a quit justified. I will not benefit in any way from continuing to be stomped on and I don’t think it really matters to my teammates whether they go 1-12 with me or 1-16 without me.

All that said, I don’t like quitting. I don’t like leaving my teammates hanging and I don’t like the negative impact it has on my reputation. But since the matchmaking system forces me to either quit or sit through hopeless matches for at least half of my games, I consider it a better experience for everyone if I just don’t play at all. How messed up is that?

>

Your point?.. I’m damn good at Grif. At least I can go +60 on a good Grifball team. You though, you wouldn’t last a second playing me. I guarantee it.

> All that said, I don’t like quitting. I don’t like leaving my teammates hanging and I don’t like the negative impact it has on my reputation. But since the matchmaking system forces me to either quit or sit through hopeless matches for at least half of my games, I consider it a better experience for everyone if I just don’t play at all. How messed up is that?

I have a small issue with your strategy (though I know the root cause of most of it is the poor matchmaking in H4). However, had the OP written something like that, he would not have gotten a comment from me. What got the comment is that he filled his posts with disparaging statements while blaming players for both making him lose by being bad . . . and then making him lose by quitting (which was in a separate post). If both their presence makes him lose and their quitting makes him lose, then he has given them no options and his posts boil down to self-aggrandizement through insults.

As far as your strategy goes, I do actually think that it conflicts with other statements you have made. If I remember correctly, you have made a few comments about H4 allowing lobby backouts as being a bad thing. Others (and perhaps you as well, though I don’t recall anything specific) have also extended this to state that the need for JIP could be reduced or eliminated by preventing lobby backouts. I agree with both of those statements.

The reason people back out of lobbies is generally because they see the stats for the other players and realize they are overmatched (or, at least, suspect that playing the game will damage their statistics). So rather than play a losing game, they leave. This is no different than realizing once you are in a game that you stand little chance of winning and quitting before that happens.

While players’ reasons may sometimes be different for quit vs. backing out, in most cases they are at least similar and quite frequently identical: playing the game will be unfun or damage their statistics. In my opinion, the lobby backouts are more tolerable, as the game is often able to find replacement players prior to the match beginning (even if there is a few seconds of spawn delay for them). In-game quits often result in no replacement players ever being found.

If you are the best player on your team and even you are overmatched, I have less problem with the quit than if you are the middling player and getting repeatedly killed. In the first case, there really is no chance of winning and likely no one on the team is having fun. In the second case, though you may not grant a positive contribution to the team, you are at least a bullet sponge, and every moment they spend killing you is a moment your better teammates have to be able to complete the objective. When you leave, the opposing team has more time to concentrate on your remaining teammates. This is not as relevant for slayer, but it is relevant for objectives. I’ve both been the sponge and benefited from sponges in objectives - especially CTF.

In any competitive event - from amateur to professional - it is considered bad sportsmanship to quit because you are losing. I don’t see Halo as any different. My incomplete games are limited to grossly unplayable connections, accidental disconnects, betrayal booting, accepting a party invite, and host migrations that time out. There are a few intentional quits due to being overmatched in there, but they are very rare. I generally grit my teeth and suffer the pain of a lopsided match rather than quit. If you go through my games, you’ll see more than a few 7-26 games where I was the only player left on my team. That is perhaps taking no-quitting a bit far . . . but that’s usually how I roll. I don’t expect others to take it that far in the least.

Anyway, I have noted more than once that there is somewhat of a double standard that is common to a number of high-skill players who post here. They don’t want lobby backouts or quits as a rule, but do have personal reasons for backing out or quitting themselves. That doesn’t quite work.

However, when I proposed a potential solution (lock lobbies and add a resignation option if the game gets out of hand), it elicited some rather unsavory feedback from some of those same high-skill players. That places us (and 343i) in a catch-22. No system works if players will take advantage of poor players on the other team to register a win, but refuse to accept a loss when the situation is reversed.

Personally, I would like there to be an option that - once the game gets too far out of hand (details can be debated), the players on the losing team have the option to vote “resign”. You have to keep playing in the interim. Once more than half of the remaining players vote “resign” (where players who already quit count as a “resign” vote for that purpose), then the game ends . . . but as a completed game rather than an incomplete one. This means there are three criteria for ending a match normally:

  1. Time is reached
  2. Winning score is reached
  3. Losing team resigns

If this is added, it allows lobbies to be locked, allows punishments for quits (such as rank reduction), but still gives players who find themselves way overmatched the ability to end the game without needing to die 20+ times without a kill.

They’ll still get a loss . . . but they deserve that loss because the other team was better (regardless of the reason), and they have also gotten wins when the situation was reversed. Win/loss is a zero sum game.

> Love it being called a noob when i average 30+ kills in capture don’t play in team…

It isn’t that hard to farm a high K/D in objective…