Closing the gap with sprint.. literally

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Everyone claims that there are no legit arguments backing sprint in Halo. They claim that everyone that supports sprint can only cough up weak reasons like “cause its in all other games” or “cause it has to evolve” or all that noise. But I have stated several times how it brings pros to the table and every time I mention this suddenly everyone bashing me for supporting sprint is gone and has nothing to say, and its because sprint DOES solve at least one (IMO) major problem halo had with short range weapons in the original trilogy… Closing the gap.

Can you remember how many times you charged someone with a sword or shotgun, only to have them back up at the exact same pace as you, rendering your weapon useless and you a sitting duck? It wasn’t very skilled of a player to simply back up and mow down a supposed power weapon holder with ease. It was something that bothered me pretty bad, id just think to myself “how in the world is this dude back stepping as fast as me running forward!?”. Yes lunge was a factor that resolved this issue sometimes, but it wasn’t THAT lethal/long in range in the original trilogy, in other words this happened far too often, especially against skilled players. Having the ability to run faster (only when looking forward) completely solved this problem, and brought a new dynamic with short range weapons. I dont want to have to just sit behind walls and corners waiting/crouching to effectively use short range power weapons.

Pretty big plus for sprint if you ask me. However, I understand why people don’t like sprint, if you don’t like stretched out maps and cat and mouse scenarios, then I get why you’re against sprint. But I honestly like the dynamic of injured players retreating and trying to regroup with their team, all while being chased down by a fast, angry Spartan. It brings a strategic risk/reward factor to hunting down your injured prey. Just cause you shot him in the head twice with your BR doesn’t mean you deserve the kill, if he was smart and ran, then its up to you to be smart and chase/not chase him and kick his yoink later depending on where his teammates are. And an emphasis on teamwork is a plus in my book. I’m also personally a fan of bigger maps, it feels more realistic, truth has the scale that I would expect a ship like that to have, unlike midship, but that’s just pure personal preference.

2

Look man, really. Stop adding to the already overwhelming numbers of NEW threads that are about sprint.
Stop it.

3

> 2533274938678576;2:
> Look man, really. Stop adding to the already overwhelming numbers of NEW threads that are about sprint.
> Stop it.

Look man, stop adding to the already obligatory first reply complaining about Sprint threads.

And why do I want sprint to close the gap for people with power weapons such as sword, shotgun, etc?

4

> 2533274938678576;2:
> Look man, really. Stop adding to the already overwhelming numbers of NEW threads that are about sprint.
> Stop it.

Its a controversial topic in this community, ill talk about it all I want. So you can tell me to “really” stop it all you want but you are wasting your time. Why click on a sprint thread if your so sick of them? Like, “really”? Take your own advice and “stop it”, problem solved.

5

> 2533274931637595;3:
> > 2533274938678576;2:
> > Look man, really. Stop adding to the already overwhelming numbers of NEW threads that are about sprint.
> > Stop it.
>
>
> Look man, stop adding to the already obligatory first reply complaining about Sprint threads.
>
> And why do I want sprint to close the gap for people with power weapons such as sword, shotgun, etc?

I mean when YOU have a short range power weapon and you can’t close the gap on someone because they simply back pedal at the same pace.

6

This “problem” you’re talking about was never a problem to begin with. Shotgun and Energy Sword have a very limited range on purpose. It’s definitely not very skilled to back away, but if somebody is careless enough to just mindlessly rush towards someone with a sword, it doesn’t have to be. Mindlessly running around with close range weapons is the most basic tactic imaginable that any inexperienced player will automatically pick up. As such, its counters should be equally basic. Otherwise there’s no incentive for players to seek more advanced tactics, and close range combat becomes dull and shallow.

To be honest, the fact that sprint increases the effective range of close range weapons is the real problem here. Close range weapons are extremely easy to aim. The limited range they have is a direct counter measure to that. When the range is limited, players have to find ways around that. If the effective range is increased, close range weapons become easier to use and players don’t need to play as smart. Close range combat in Halo has never been very deep to begin with. Sprint only makes it shallower by allowing a basic tactic like rushing towards someone to be more effective.

7

> 2533274825830455;6:
> This “problem” you’re talking about was never a problem to begin with. Shotgun and Energy Sword have a very limited range on purpose. It’s definitely not very skilled to back away, but if somebody is careless enough to just mindlessly rush towards someone with a sword, it doesn’t have to be. Mindlessly running around with close range weapons is the most basic tactic imaginable that any inexperienced player will automatically pick up. As such, its counters should be equally basic. Otherwise there’s no incentive for players to seek more advanced tactics, and close range combat becomes dull and shallow.
>
> To be honest, the fact that sprint increases the effective range of close range weapons is the real problem here. Close range weapons are extremely easy to aim. The limited range they have is a direct counter measure to that. When the range is limited, players have to find ways around that. If the effective range is increased, close range weapons become easier to use and players don’t need to play as smart. Close range combat in Halo has never been very deep to begin with. Sprint only makes it shallower by allowing a basic tactic like rushing towards someone to be more effective.

Nah man. It forces players to play more strategically against those with power weapons.

8

But sprint makes the sword incredibly over powered.
You got lunge and sprint, which makes it really hard for the enemy to actually get away from someone with the sword.
Especially if he’s trying to shoot the guy running at him, the sword wielder will probably have already killed him before his shields go down.

Edit:
tsassi beat me too it.
I couldn’t agree more.
They’re close quarter weapons for a reason, see them more like defensive weapons than offensive weapons.
You’re supposed to keep them around if someone ends up too close to you so you can blast them.

However, you’re not supposed to be rushing around killing people left and right with them, that’s why sprint makes them so OP.

9

> 2533274825830455;6:
> This “problem” you’re talking about was never a problem to begin with. Shotgun and Energy Sword have a very limited range on purpose. It’s definitely not very skilled to back away, but if somebody is careless enough to just mindlessly rush towards someone with a sword, it doesn’t have to be. Mindlessly running around with close range weapons is the most basic tactic imaginable that any inexperienced player will automatically pick up. As such, its counters should be equally basic. Otherwise there’s no incentive for players to seek more advanced tactics, and close range combat becomes dull and shallow.
>
> To be honest, the fact that sprint increases the effective range of close range weapons is the real problem here. Close range weapons are extremely easy to aim. The limited range they have is a direct counter measure to that. When the range is limited, players have to find ways around that. If the effective range is increased, close range weapons become easier to use and players don’t need to play as smart. Close range combat in Halo has never been very deep to begin with. Sprint only makes it shallower by allowing a basic tactic like rushing towards someone to be more effective.

There is your answer. If you had issues with people stepping back with a shortgun or a sword, you were using them the wrong way. They are deadly in specific situations, but you should not travel the map with them as default weapon.

10

Now people this is my first post in the sprint section and this is not trolling,here is why i think sprint should be in Halo 5.I am no expert on Halo canon but i think if Spartan 3 could sprint to some degree and Spartan 4-s can sprint it just makes sense that there will be sprinting in the game.

11

The sword or shotgun was never underpowered.

Take a look at how it was used in the right hands: DeMoNCaaT - YouTube

Another video of me showing you how to use the sword in H3.

And … if you think the sword is underpowered in H2C or H2A …

Sprint messes up the gameplay so much. You can’t grenade to the ground anymore and watch beginners walk over it because they’ll just sprint over it in an instant :frowning:

You can’t keep moving around a small circle tower trying stay a live, because they’ll just sprint and beat you down :frowning:

If you couldn’t use the swords or shotgun before it was because of you.

12

> 2533274825830455;6:
> This “problem” you’re talking about was never a problem to begin with. Shotgun and Energy Sword have a very limited range on purpose. It’s definitely not very skilled to back away, but if somebody is careless enough to just mindlessly rush towards someone with a sword, it doesn’t have to be. Mindlessly running around with close range weapons is the most basic tactic imaginable that any inexperienced player will automatically pick up. As such, its counters should be equally basic. Otherwise there’s no incentive for players to seek more advanced tactics, and close range combat becomes dull and shallow.
>
> To be honest, the fact that sprint increases the effective range of close range weapons is the real problem here. Close range weapons are extremely easy to aim. The limited range they have is a direct counter measure to that. When the range is limited, players have to find ways around that. If the effective range is increased, close range weapons become easier to use and players don’t need to play as smart. Close range combat in Halo has never been very deep to begin with. Sprint only makes it shallower by allowing a basic tactic like rushing towards someone to be more effective.

How soon you forget how 343i managed to hilareously nerf the sword lunge in Halo 4, essentially making using it effectively without sprint not an option. I’m not sure how they handled sword lunge in Halo 5, as I didn’t get to use it much during the beta.

13

> 2533274825830455;6:
> Mindlessly running around with close range weapons is the most basic tactic imaginable that any inexperienced player will automatically pick up. As such, its counters should be equally basic. Otherwise there’s no incentive for players to seek more advanced tactics, and close range combat becomes dull and shallow.

You’re holding to the idea that short ranged combat is shallow in Halo but sprint makes maps too large… It just doesn’t square dance.
It doesn’t matter what weapon you run around with, mindless is mindless. If that’s the meta-game you’re arguing, you’re not being fair to anyone.

> 2533274825830455;6:
> To be honest, the fact that sprint increases the effective range of close range weapons is the real problem here. Close range weapons are extremely easy to aim. The limited range they have is a direct counter measure to that. When the range is limited, players have to find ways around that. If the effective range is increased, close range weapons become easier to use and players don’t need to play as smart. Close range combat in Halo has never been very deep to begin with. Sprint only makes it shallower by allowing a basic tactic like rushing towards someone to be more effective.

Your fact seems to tie heavily into map design, not a movement mechanic as it forgets how great the CE shotgun is and how poor the H2 and H3 versions are… And that it was map design that kept them in check, or in H2/H3’s case, allowed them to be used as ambush tools exclusively.
The H2’s sword draw speed and lunge distance made it a “get out of jail free card” to almost any close range situation as one could not see if the opponent had a sword in the first place and its rebuttal was fierce. CE didn’t have sprint but it had a devastatingly far reaching shotgun, Reach had sprint and a slightly less lethal shotgun than CE.
And then of course H3 barely had any long ranged fights as the no-scope snipers dominated arena-sized maps and said H3BR restricted gameplay to the shallow end of the pool and even when dualing, one had to be very close range to ensure the spread didn’t penalise a player. Actually the spread of all the weapons kept H3 to the shallow end of the pool.

How the heck does an H3AR-rusher become more effective by lowering their weapon to get at me faster? Especially when I have Thruster to avoid a Shoulder Dash/Sword lunge?
If the H5M6 kills quicker than the H5SMG or H5AR with perfect shooting AND can land headshots on targets at a very decently far range… How does a skilled player with a quicker killing headshot registering weapon loose to the easily used but range limited unscoped AR?
Better yet, if the player is using their Smart Scope on the H5AR, how are they not properly aiming their weapon because the spread and bullet magnetism are reduced to a smaller cone (magnetism is reduced much greater than the spread) AND at the same time are mindlessly sprinting toward their opponent without shooting?

14

> 2533274825830455;6:
> This “problem” you’re talking about was never a problem to begin with. Shotgun and Energy Sword have a very limited range on purpose. It’s definitely not very skilled to back away, but if somebody is careless enough to just mindlessly rush towards someone with a sword, it doesn’t have to be. Mindlessly running around with close range weapons is the most basic tactic imaginable that any inexperienced player will automatically pick up. As such, its counters should be equally basic. Otherwise there’s no incentive for players to seek more advanced tactics, and close range combat becomes dull and shallow.
>
> To be honest, the fact that sprint increases the effective range of close range weapons is the real problem here. Close range weapons are extremely easy to aim. The limited range they have is a direct counter measure to that. When the range is limited, players have to find ways around that. If the effective range is increased, close range weapons become easier to use and players don’t need to play as smart. Close range combat in Halo has never been very deep to begin with. Sprint only makes it shallower by allowing a basic tactic like rushing towards someone to be more effective.

This, could not have said it better.

15

> 2533274825830455;6:
> This “problem” you’re talking about was never a problem to begin with. Shotgun and Energy Sword have a very limited range on purpose. It’s definitely not very skilled to back away, but if somebody is careless enough to just mindlessly rush towards someone with a sword, it doesn’t have to be. Mindlessly running around with close range weapons is the most basic tactic imaginable that any inexperienced player will automatically pick up. As such, its counters should be equally basic. Otherwise there’s no incentive for players to seek more advanced tactics, and close range combat becomes dull and shallow.
>
> To be honest, the fact that sprint increases the effective range of close range weapons is the real problem here. Close range weapons are extremely easy to aim. The limited range they have is a direct counter measure to that. When the range is limited, players have to find ways around that. If the effective range is increased, close range weapons become easier to use and players don’t need to play as smart. Close range combat in Halo has never been very deep to begin with. Sprint only makes it shallower by allowing a basic tactic like rushing towards someone to be more effective.

I’d disagree with you there but to each their own. (and I’d never tell you it would be the button combos of H2)

Don’t recall but moving backwards isn’t quite the same speed as forward also right? And unless it’s really out in the open, there’s generally going to be something a backing player will bump into if they are in a state of panic seeing a sword charging at them, or getting hit by a shotgun blast.

I’m with you that sprint makes it worse though, especially when this will be the first time you can “zoom” with the sword for an increased lunge. (what?)

16

> 2603643534597848;13:
> You’re holding to the idea that short ranged combat is shallow in Halo but sprint makes maps too large… It just doesn’t square dance.

I don’t really see the conflict there. I’ve only made two claims. The first is that if there’s no easy way to counter someone mindlessly running at you with a sword, then there is no reason for the sword user to seek more advanced tactics. Is that not shallow?

The second claim I made was that combat with close range weapons (Shotgun, Energy Sword, melee)–by which I mean the literal shooting at each other, not the tactics of ambushing someone–has always been shallow. If there are two players trying to hit each other with melee, there’s little either of them can do to affect the outcome, aside from who gets the best timing. Is that not shallow? The depth at using close range weapons has always come from the tactics you have to employ to get near enough to another player, not from the actual act of combat.

I don’t see how either of these claims relate to map design.

> 2603643534597848;13:
> It doesn’t matter what weapon you run around with, mindless is mindless. If that’s the meta-game you’re arguing, you’re not being fair to anyone.

I’m arguing that mindlessly running around shouldn’t be a viable tactic. Do you disagree with that?

> 2603643534597848;13:
> Your fact seems to tie heavily into map design, not a movement mechanic as it forgets how great the CE shotgun is and how poor the H2 and H3 versions are… And that it was map design that kept them in check, or in H2/H3’s case, allowed them to be used as ambush tools exclusively.

The effective range is independent of map design. Roughly speaking, there’s some range which is at the tipping point between DMR beating an Energy Sword, and Energy Sword beating a DMR on flat ground, which we can consider as some effective range. The point here isn’t to argue the exact value or how different weapons affect the range. The point is that the range is independent of map design. It’s glaringly obvious that sprint increases the effective range here.

> 2603643534597848;13:
> How the heck does an H3AR-rusher become more effective by lowering their weapon to get at me faster? Especially when I have Thruster to avoid a Shoulder Dash/Sword lunge?
> If the H5M6 kills quicker than the H5SMG or H5AR with perfect shooting AND can land headshots on targets at a very decently far range… How does a skilled player with a quicker killing headshot registering weapon loose to the easily used but range limited unscoped AR?
> Better yet, if the player is using their Smart Scope on the H5AR, how are they not properly aiming their weapon because the spread and bullet magnetism are reduced to a smaller cone (magnetism is reduced much greater than the spread) AND at the same time are mindlessly sprinting toward their opponent without shooting?

I don’t know why you bring up AR and Magnum when I was only talking about Shotgun and Energy Sword.

17

> 2533274825830455;16:
> > 2603643534597848;13:
> >
>
>
> I don’t really see the conflict there. I’ve only made two claims. The first is that if there’s no easy way to counter someone mindlessly running at you with a sword, then there is no reason for the sword user to seek more advanced tactics. Is that not shallow?

The player has no mind… How is their sword a problem?
And the one Halo game that allowed mindless sprinting with a sword to a few degrees… Well a TU removed the counter-melee move that required smarter tactics on the sword user’s part. How is that forgotten?

> 2533274825830455;16:
> The second claim I made was that combat with close range weapons (Shotgun, Energy Sword, melee)–by which I mean the literal shooting at each other, not the tactics of ambushing someone–has always been shallow. If there are two players trying to hit each other with melee, there’s little either of them can do to affect the outcome, aside from who gets the best timing. Is that not shallow? The depth at using close range weapons has always come from the tactics you have to employ to get near enough to another player, not from the actual act of combat.
>
> I don’t see how either of these claims relate to map design.

Without map design allowing it, how is a player suppose to get close enough to another to melee them or use any other CQB weapon?
How do you not see that what’s good for 70% Midship isn’t good for 98% of Coagulation?
How is all of Halo not shallow if actions are so simple as just aim and hit? I find it much easier with a precision weapon than my fists to do that at the majority of ranges… How can you claim short ranged is shallow when any range is just as equally shallow without any context of cover or other map design?

> 2533274825830455;16:
> > 2603643534597848;13:
> >
>
>
> I’m arguing that mindlessly running around shouldn’t be a viable tactic. Do you disagree with that?

I agree it’s what you’re agruing but I don’t believe you understand what “mindless” means or how much of the meta-game of H5 is not like previous Halos (as far as Sprint and Dodge/Thrust go, remove them and it’s nearly indistinguishable beyond the scoping animations).
I’m a brawler on Empire and hatrick prince on Regret… Thanks to mindless runners and sprinters.
I’ve tried to mindlessly run into enemies in H5 to see how much forgiveness is available… It didn’t work out too well.
How can you be arguing for or against something that isn’t an issue?

> 2533274825830455;16:
> > 2603643534597848;13:
> >
>
>
> The effective range is independent of map design. Roughly speaking, there’s some range which is at the tipping point between DMR beating an Energy Sword, and Energy Sword beating a DMR on flat ground, which we can consider as some effective range. The point here isn’t to argue the exact value or how different weapons affect the range. The point is that the range is independent of map design. It’s glaringly obvious that sprint increases the effective range here.

If sprint elongates maps due to increasing the distance between cover one must traverse then the weapons are built to feel sweet within those purposely built distances… Just as with sprint removed and gaps shortened, weapons are build to feel sweet within those purspoely build distances, then yes, yes range and map designs are part of the mix.

As well, maps like Last Resort compared to Zanzibar without sprint and the Pit to Pitfall with sprint really throws a monkey wrench in stating that sprint specifically does things to maps as whole.
And as always, with sprint, maps like Wizard and Lockout are a bit small, maps like Desolation and Tombstone are much tighter… Then again Wizard plays much better as a 2vs2 and 1vs1 than a 4v4 as it has a 3-shot 600ms pistol with an unscoped RRR that covered 7/10th’s the maps.

> 2533274825830455;16:
> > 2603643534597848;13:
> > How the heck does an H3AR-rusher become more effective by lowering their weapon to get at me faster? Especially when I have Thruster to avoid a Shoulder Dash/Sword lunge?
> > If the H5M6 kills quicker than the H5SMG or H5AR with perfect shooting AND can land headshots on targets at a very decently far range… How does a skilled player with a quicker killing headshot registering weapon loose to the easily used but range limited unscoped AR?
> > Better yet, if the player is using their Smart Scope on the H5AR, how are they not properly aiming their weapon because the spread and bullet magnetism are reduced to a smaller cone (magnetism is reduced much greater than the spread) AND at the same time are mindlessly sprinting toward their opponent without shooting?
>
>
> I don’t know why you bring up AR and Magnum when I was only talking about Shotgun and Energy Sword.

Because that is purposely making the pool shallow on your part. We spawn with AR’s and M6’s in H5’s default slayer. They have to be used against each other and the swords and shotguns… And the BR’s, DMR’s, etc. We also have the Thruster (dodge) ability.

What’s a sword or shotgun going to do against an H5 M6, AR or SMG WITH Thruster if they shred so easily in short range and one is mindlessly sprinting at them ?

> 2533274825830455;6:
> Close range combat in Halo has never been very deep to begin with. Sprint only makes it shallower by allowing a basic tactic like rushing towards someone to be more effective.

AR-rushing is what we make fun of in H3 for those going for melee kill but combat is at least 2-way AND we have to consider the spawning options. You speak of players being forced to learn how to “fight” but leave out the spawning weapons and their abilities meant for short ranged combat.

18

The tactic of “sprinting around the map with a sword” becomes more/less useful depending on the skill of the players. The sprinting player will be moving faster than the defending player can backpedal. However, the defending player has options available. He can thrust backwards to land those last needed shots, and kill the sword-wielder (likewise, the sword-wielder could counter-thrust forward and kill the defender). The defender could also thrust sideways and throw off the sword-wielder’s momentum. There is also the ability to jump+thrust. Lots of movement combinations coupled with the fact that Halo 5 has an overall faster TTK balances out the ease of closing the gap. I’d even go as far to say CQC in Halo 5 has more depth than the other Halos (bar Halo 2 with its button combos and momentum-based melees).

19

That doesn’t seem like a plus at all. You shouldn’t be able to effectively engage someone at mid range with a close range weapon by simply charging towards them.

20

> 2533274938678576;2:
> Look man, really. Stop adding to the already overwhelming numbers of NEW threads that are about sprint.
> Stop it.

Why bother coming into threads you don’t like to complain about them? I don’t come into the hordes of campaign lore threads that I find ridiculously dumb to tell people to stop making them.