classic vs new? how about both?

Games Halo Infinite
1

So as we all look forward to infinite and its inspired art style we know nothing about the game play but what everyone know is that there is a divide on how halo should play so i other up a simply idea. why not both?

Well what i mean is in halo 5 with game types you can change it back to classic but the weapon sandbox doesn’t support it properly.
343 have show with the req system in h5 that its easy to make multiple versions of a gun so hears what i suggest.
Simply bring the old weapon variants along side the new weapons.
This way you can make a classic playlist play properly while everyone who enjoys the new game play will still be able to, there would be no problems lore wise and even forge and custom games benefits from it with weapon flexibility.
Literally everyone is happy.
So obliviously older weapons would preform worse (lower aim assist) the weapons from classic halo for classic halo.
We already have an example of this with the h5 and h2 battle rifles (though done wrong)

so what do you all think? simple but it’ll work.
For anyone who disagree’s id like for you to tell me why!

2

It’s just not realistic. There would still need to be two different map pools, and the number of playlists would need to be doubled. Which style will be chosen for eSports? It can’t be both. How will players get used to two different sets of weapons? It will be completely jarring when switching between styles.

I’d rather have 343 focus on one gameplay style and make it pristine (even if I don’t personally prefer that style).

3

It’s just a bad idea because it splits resources that could go towards making the game as a whole better. All the weapon tweaking and new maps would take up so much work and time, but would be the only way to create a proper classic experience.

At the end of the day a classic playlist is more of an insult than a gift. “You can’t play campaign the way you want, you can’t play the majority of matchmaking the way you want, and you can’t play most custom games the way you want, but here’s a few Forge maps with a barely working sandbox because it wasn’t designed to work this way.”

4

  1. for weapon balancing since only classic weapons would be used for classic maps and new weapons for new maps means changing a classic weapon will have no affect on the new weapon sandbox and vise-versa. (easy balancing)

  2. now as for maps it weather or no u have a problem with forge maps because not only are they already looking the part and get extremely close to how the maps looked originally in H3 but the only reason forge maps don’t look better now is because the engine is really weak and we get performance drops limiting us at 3/4th the current object budget.

  3. forge was already expected to improve but now we know a new engine is coming as well.
    forge is also an unlimited source or content. the H3 throw back play list had more maps then what are in the playlist now but they couldn’t include all of them.

  4. in-terms of time and assets that 343 has to give up i’m only asking that they make a few versions of existing guns and only the ones from the classic games which i don’t consider unrealistic considering how much weapon variants are in H5 now.
    forge can handle the maps which 343 wouldn’t be making anyway. (this does mean a classic play list would take a few months to make post launch)

  5. a good point is esports which id say 343 would choose their new halo. (personally fine with either)

all i’m trying to do with this idea is make a better classic playlist with proper sandbox support moving forward with halo infinite. i like both styles of halo and i doubt 343 is going to give up on their halo i’m expecting them to slow it down and refine it but not abandon it.

5

> 2533274914197136;4:
> 1. for weapon balancing since only classic weapons would be used for classic maps and new weapons for new maps means changing a classic weapon will have no affect on the new weapon sandbox and vise-versa. (easy balancing).

You just went from double the maps to double the entire sandbox. It doesn’t matter how much effort is put into either style, one will always take precedence over the other and the community will constantly be volatile and suspicious of the devs catering to the opposite side more than them. It makes no sense from a community relations perspective.

> 2. now as for maps it weather or no u have a problem with forge maps because not only are they already looking the part and get extremely close to how the maps looked originally in H3 but the only reason forge maps don’t look better now is because the engine is really weak and we get performance drops limiting us at 3/4th the current object budget.

I think most people have a problem with Forge maps taking up the majority of a playlist (If you were around during Reach’s time you’d know this) especially when your preferred style has more Forge maps than the other.

> 3. forge was already expected to improve but now we know a new engine is coming as well.
> forge is also an unlimited source or content. the H3 throw back play list had more maps then what are in the playlist now but they couldn’t include all of them.

Forge maps will never have the polish and refinement of dev made maps. It is an excellent community feature but it shouldn’t act as a replacement for developer made content.

> 4. in-terms of time and assets that 343 has to give up i’m only asking that they make a few versions of existing guns and only the ones from the classic games which i don’t consider unrealistic considering how much weapon variants are in H5 now.
> forge can handle the maps which 343 wouldn’t be making anyway. (this does mean a classic play list would take a few months to make post launch)

You’re asking for two entire sandboxes co-developed simultaneously before launch, both of which need to be rigorously tested, tuned and polished to meet launch standard. In this point, it also seems like you’re suggesting that a single playlist would be enough to draw classic fans back to Infinite. Lemme ask you this. Did the Halo 3 playlist bring legions of classic fans back to Halo 5?
Imagine an entirely classic game with a single mobility playlist. Would that be enough for you? Would you buy Infinite if Campaign, 95% of Multiplayer, and all of the tertiary game-modes used the style you disliked?

> 5. a good point is esports which id say 343 would choose their new halo. (personally fine with either)
>
> all i’m trying to do with this idea is make a better classic playlist with proper sandbox support moving forward with halo infinite. i like both styles of halo and i doubt 343 is going to give up on their halo i’m expecting them to slow it down and refine it but not abandon it.

Again, prioritising one style over the other in a game that is supposed to be catering to both. I can’t think of a dev studio on the planet who could justify an entirely new sandbox for a single playlist.

6

> 2533274900668879;5:
> > 2533274914197136;4:
> > 1. for weapon balancing since only classic weapons would be used for classic maps and new weapons for new maps means changing a classic weapon will have no affect on the new weapon sandbox and vise-versa. (easy balancing).
>
> You just went from double the maps to double the entire sandbox. It doesn’t matter how much effort is put into either style, one will always take precedence over the other and the community will constantly be volatile and suspicious of the devs catering to the opposite side more than them. It makes no sense from a community relations perspective.
>
>
> > 2. now as for maps it weather or no u have a problem with forge maps because not only are they already looking the part and get extremely close to how the maps looked originally in H3 but the only reason forge maps don’t look better now is because the engine is really weak and we get performance drops limiting us at 3/4th the current object budget.
>
> I think most people have a problem with Forge maps taking up the majority of a playlist (If you were around during Reach’s time you’d know this) especially when your preferred style has more Forge maps than the other.
>
>
> > 3. forge was already expected to improve but now we know a new engine is coming as well.
> > forge is also an unlimited source or content. the H3 throw back play list had more maps then what are in the playlist now but they couldn’t include all of them.
>
> Forge maps will never have the polish and refinement of dev made maps. It is an excellent community feature but it shouldn’t act as a replacement for developer made content.
>
>
> > 4. in-terms of time and assets that 343 has to give up i’m only asking that they make a few versions of existing guns and only the ones from the classic games which i don’t consider unrealistic considering how much weapon variants are in H5 now.
> > forge can handle the maps which 343 wouldn’t be making anyway. (this does mean a classic play list would take a few months to make post launch)
>
> You’re asking for two entire sandboxes co-developed simultaneously before launch, both of which need to be rigorously tested, tuned and polished to meet launch standard. In this point, it also seems like you’re suggesting that a single playlist would be enough to draw classic fans back to Infinite. Lemme ask you this. Did the Halo 3 playlist bring legions of classic fans back to Halo 5?
> Imagine an entirely classic game with a single mobility playlist. Would that be enough for you? Would you buy Infinite if Campaign, 95% of Multiplayer, and all of the tertiary game-modes used the style you disliked?
>
>
> > 5. a good point is esports which id say 343 would choose their new halo. (personally fine with either)
> >
> > all i’m trying to do with this idea is make a better classic playlist with proper sandbox support moving forward with halo infinite. i like both styles of halo and i doubt 343 is going to give up on their halo i’m expecting them to slow it down and refine it but not abandon it.
>
> Again, prioritising one style over the other in a game that is supposed to be catering to both. I can’t think of a dev studio on the planet who could justify an entirely new sandbox for a single playlist.

all fair points. i never said just one playlist but i see why you assumed that. well anyway i know 343 with have a classic play list come halo infinite just thinking of a way to improve it for classic fans. i think you may be over estimating how many weapons id ideally want. the weapons would only be the core weapons like the sniper, assault rifle, battle rifle, rockets, shotgun, smg, beam rifle, carbine, needle and plasma pistol. 10 anyway i would buy it because i like both styles.

7

[deleted]

8

> 2533274914197136;4:
> forge can handle the maps which 343 wouldn’t be making anyway. (this does mean a classic play list would take a few months to make post launch)

> 2533274900668879;5:
> In this point, it also seems like you’re suggesting that a single playlist would be enough to draw classic fans back to Infinite.

Didn’t assume, merely conjectured.

> i think you may be over estimating how many weapons id ideally want. the weapons would only be the core weapons like the sniper, assault rifle, battle rifle, rockets, shotgun, smg, beam rifle, carbine, needle and plasma pistol. 10

And I think you’re underestimating the scope of what Classic fans actually require to justify a purchase. For that reason, the more content you want to include, the more resources are effectively wasted on a single playlist that the majority of players you are catering to are never going to play. The less content you include, the less appealing said offering becomes, feeding back into the lack of players problem. There’s no point, either way it’ll just harm the overall experience.

9

343 has a hard enough time trying to balance one set of weapons (the weapon update) and now you’re asking them to do two sets of them. Have fun with that. Not to mention what everyone else said.

10

> 2533274900668879;8:
> > 2533274914197136;4:
> > forge can handle the maps which 343 wouldn’t be making anyway. (this does mean a classic play list would take a few months to make post launch)
>
>
>
> > 2533274900668879;5:
> > In this point, it also seems like you’re suggesting that a single playlist would be enough to draw classic fans back to Infinite.
>
> Didn’t assume, merely conjectured.
>
>
> > i think you may be over estimating how many weapons id ideally want. the weapons would only be the core weapons like the sniper, assault rifle, battle rifle, rockets, shotgun, smg, beam rifle, carbine, needle and plasma pistol. 10
>
> And I think you’re underestimating the scope of what Classic fans actually require to justify a purchase. For that reason, the more content you want to include, the more resources are effectively wasted on a single playlist that the majority of players you are catering to are never going to play. The less content you include, the less appealing said offering becomes, feeding back into the lack of players problem. There’s no point, either way it’ll just harm the overall experience.

i know that they wont get what they want but it doesn’t really matter because its unlikely 343 will return to classic game play all i want to present with the post was a way to make it a little bit better for fans of classic. everything takes time for them to make regardless of if its worth it or not.

11

> “i know that they wont get what they want but it doesn’t really matter”

Sums this thread up really.

12

Halo Wars 2 did an excellent job combining both styles. It wouldn’t hurt to do the same in HI.

13

Surprisingly I think it is doable (if they rip most of the models from H2 Anniversary) but I would prefer if they just focus on one and really perfect it. Now personally I think Halo needs to go with classic gameplay otherwise the series will lose it’s identity and fall into obscurity; however that being said if they do go with modern gameplay I think a classic playlist would be better than nothing.

14

> 2533274914197136;1:
> So as we all look forward to infinite and its inspired art style we know nothing about the game play but what everyone know is that there is a divide on how halo should play so i other up a simply idea. why not both? _Well what i mean is in halo 5 with game types you can change it back to classic but the weapon sandbox doesn’t support it properly._343 have show with the req system in h5 that its easy to make multiple versions of a gun so hears what i suggest. Simply bring the old weapon variants along side the new weapons.This way you can make a classic playlist play properly while everyone who enjoys the new game play will still be able to, there would be no problems lore wise and even forge and custom games benefits from it with weapon flexibility.Literally everyone is happy. *So obliviously older weapons would preform worse (lower aim assist) the weapons from classic halo for classic halo.*We already have an example of this with the h5 and h2 battle rifles (though done wrong) so what do you all think? simple but it’ll work.
> For anyone who disagree’s id like for you to tell me why!

Because that’s a lot of work plus I’ve learned enough from Halo 5 to know that trying to do both doesn’t work…even the classic playlists barely felt like classic Halo, there was too many weapon variations, which meant a lot of the weapons were poorly tested and has led to plenty of awful unbalanced Warzone games. Plus some of the design changes didn’t make any sense.

15

No, sadly I have to disagree on this one Bleach. That’s not a compromise

It’s simply not possible to make both sides happy within one game. We don’t want a classic playlist, we dont want just a handful weapons. What we want is a full Halo Game, designed around the true, core gameplay. This goes for the campaign (gameplay), as well as for the multiplayer experience.
The majority of the Fandom has been ignored for nearly a decade now. Surely, there were some improvements in the recent years - like the real artstyle coming back, or the fact, that there was at least an attempt to balance sprint out - which obviously didn’t work out.

The only compromise is to split the community entirely, make one game based on the real, core gameplay and and another one based on the movement system. I don’t see another solution.

16

I disagree, you can’t have your cake and eat it too on this one. For the game to have substance and be fun and replayable requires major changes to Halo 5’s style of gameplay. To be honest, if Infinite went to the old style of gameplay exclusively, there would be no major split in the community like some suggest there would be. To retain the Halo 5 gameplay as a whole for Infinite and make such changes for only a playlist is the exact same type of half hearted attempt to please the community 343 has tried and failed to do before, to try it again would only further tarnish the integrity of the franchise

17

Boooth man!

18

careful , with trying to suggest anything as logical as providing gameplay that would cater to both sides of the community ,. the easiest way to cater to both is to have classic playlist and non classic playlist and have different smaller non big team battle style maps that are dedicated to one style of play or the other. We don’t need the thruster boosts , ground pound, but sprint SHOULD be in it imo, disable sprint in the classic playlist obviously and there you go.

19

Would rather it be just alternate skins that can be toggled in forge and in the gamemodes settings. That way there won’t be any unneeded tweaking and it’ll be the same gunplay and you can just swap how the weapon looks for classic and modern halo

20

> 2533274857165616;19:
> Would rather it be just alternate skins that can be toggled in forge and in the gamemodes settings. That way there won’t be any unneeded tweaking and it’ll be the same gunplay and you can just swap how the weapon looks for classic and modern halo

the problem is not the way the guns look its the aim assist. the h5 weapons of preform the against the classic moment which is why the h5 classic playlist if rather bad (game play wise)