Classic vs. Infinity

As most of us may well know, Halo Xbox One has a release date slated sometime in 2014. Assuming that Halo Xbox One has been in development since August of 2012 and that Halo Xbox One will be released in the last quarter of 2014, we can deduce the fact that Halo Xbox One will have a development period of 2-2.5 years. As a result, we (The Community) must have a say now, rather than later, on the course Halo Xbox One should take in regards to the multiplayer. Ever since the release of Halo 4, the population of it’s multiplayer matchmaking has been in a state of near constant decline. Some may argue that this has occurred because Halo 4 swayed too far away from the classic Halo formula with the inclusion of Load-outs, Armour Abilities, and Sprint as a constant ability to players. There are others, however, who believe that if Halo doesn’t evolve, it will simply grow irrelevant and will fail to compete with the other popular First-Person Shooters. Now before someone posts that they should implement both to please fans, here’s why that won’t work.

1. Implementing both Classic and Infinity playlists would take a great deal of development time which, sadly, Halo Xbox One does not have much of. Implementing both would cause other aspects and features of the game to be lacking such as Campaign or Firefight/Spartan Ops. (Ex. Removal of Skulls in campaign, or shorter Spartan Ops.)

2. Having Both Classic and Infinity Playlists would further fragment the community more than it already is.

3. Having these two distinct styles of play would cause developers having to choose which style of play would be implemented in Campaign/Spartan Ops which could lead to one side of the community unable to play Campaign/Spartan Ops the way they want to play.

4. Implementing these two very distinct sandboxes together would lead to multiplayer maps being either too big for classic gameplay or too small for implementation of Sprint and Armor Abilities.

In conclusion, we as a community must choose to adopt either the classic Halo Formula or abandon it with the newer Infinity settings in order to make sure Halo Xbox One will not suffer the same fate of Halo 4 with it’s removal of various feature throughout the game.

Remember, 343 is listening.

Your vote could change the future of Halo Xbox One.

RESERVED

I really see no reason why Infinity can’t simply be a playlist instead of its own separate mode. That way Legendary mode will get much needed attention while the smaller Infinity community won’t be left hanging.

> I really see no reason why Infinity can’t simply be a playlist instead of its own separate mode.

But why put so much effort into a playlist instead of focusing resources on other aspects of Halo such as Campaign, Custom Games, Forge, and Theater. I mean think about all of the things they removed from Halo 4 such as Campaign Theater as well the lack of Custom Games customization and gametypes. If they focused clearly on one sandbox rather than the other, we can achieve a much more rounded Halo experience in addition to more focused map design.

> > I really see no reason why Infinity can’t simply be a playlist instead of its own separate mode.
>
> But why put so much effort into a playlist instead of focusing resources on other aspects of Halo such as Campaign, Custom Games, Forge, and Theater. I mean think about all of the things they removed from Halo 4 such as Campaign Theater as well the lack of Custom Games customization and gametypes. If they focused clearly on one sandbox rather than the other, we can achieve a much more rounded Halo experience in addition to more focused map design.

With the power of the Xbox One, a lot more things can be added, so a simple Infinity playlist isn’t out the question. In Halo Anniversary, there were 2 map variants, one used for the Classic gameplay and another for the Reach gameplay. 343 could take a similar approach for the Infinity playlist (not mode, just playlist).

I’m still confused on why people think that having both Classic and Infinity playlists would “Split” the community.

I honestly think a better system than having two different forms of playlists would be to implement a system that allows the player to “prefer” what playing style they enjoy. By this, I mean that if you prefer Classic Gameplay, more Classic Gametypes would appear on your voting list and you’d be matched with people who also prefer Classic Gameplay.

With this system, we don’t have to worry about Classic Fans saying “INFINITY REQUIRES NO SKILL” and we also won’t have to worry about Infinity Fans saying “THIS GAME IS TOO HARD”

It’s a win-win for everyone, and the next step is designing the maps with both of these settings in mind. In order to achieve this, we would make the maps on Classic Size, and then adjust Infinity Settings to work with them. However, despeite claims that say that “sprint can never be balanced,” we can adjust Infinity’s player speed and sprint speed to average to the same number as the Classic Speed.

Classic Speed: 10

Infinity Speed: 7

Sprint Speed: 13

With the map size issue solved, we can implement a De-Sprint mechanic to combat the “Get outta jail free card” effect.

Boom. Issues solved.

> > > I really see no reason why Infinity can’t simply be a playlist instead of its own separate mode.
> >
> > But why put so much effort into a playlist instead of focusing resources on other aspects of Halo such as Campaign, Custom Games, Forge, and Theater. I mean think about all of the things they removed from Halo 4 such as Campaign Theater as well the lack of Custom Games customization and gametypes. If they focused clearly on one sandbox rather than the other, we can achieve a much more rounded Halo experience in addition to more focused map design.
>
> With the power of the Xbox One, a lot more things can be added, so a simple Infinity playlist isn’t out the question. In Halo Anniversary, there were 2 map variants, one used for the Classic gameplay and another for the Reach gameplay. 343 could take a similar approach for the Infinity playlist (not mode, just playlist).

I’m not really concerned with the power of the Xbox One being a factor but rather the development time. Halo 4 could have had a lot more content in it only IF it had a longer development cycle. I mean, look at Grand Theft Auto V. That game, from the looks of it, has more content than probably both Dead Rising 3 and Ryse combined. However, that game has been in development for more than 5+ years. But since Halo Xbox One will only have a development of 2 - 2.5 years, I’m afraid that 343 may have to cut corners off of some features like they did with Halo 4. I’m thinking that if they focused on only one style of play then they could create a much richer experience without having to cut corners with their limited development time.

> I really see no reason why Infinity can’t simply be a playlist instead of its own separate mode. That way Legendary mode will get much needed attention while the smaller Infinity community won’t be left hanging.

A set of maps would have to be designed separately from the default maps in order for them to work with Infinity. This isn’t practical for a full half of the game being Infinity, never mind a single playlist.

It’s an extremely tricky situation at best, and an almost impossible one at worst. It would seem to me that 343 will need to have a consistent style of gameplay to work with, so that they can efficiently build a full game around that gameplay.

Who knows? Maybe it will be yet another radical shift from what we know now, into a style of gameplay which neither Infinity nor Traditional fans can identify with.
This would still require that the game is built from the ground up with that gameplay in mind.

Whatever gameplay they go with, I think it needs to be their focus.

> I’m still confused on why people think that having both Classic and Infinity playlists would “Split” the community.
>
> I honestly think a better system than having two different forms of playlists would be to implement a system that allows the player to “prefer” what playing style they enjoy. By this, I mean that if you prefer Classic Gameplay, more Classic Gametypes would appear on your voting list and you’d be matched with people who also prefer Classic Gameplay.
>
> With this system, we don’t have to worry about Classic Fans saying “INFINITY REQUIRES NO SKILL” and we also won’t have to worry about Infinity Fans saying “THIS GAME IS TOO HARD”
>
> It’s a win-win for everyone, and the next step is designing the maps with both of these settings in mind. In order to achieve this, we would make the maps on Classic Size, and then adjust Infinity Settings to work with them. However, despeite claims that say that “sprint can never be balanced,” we can adjust Infinity’s player speed and sprint speed to average to the same number as the Classic Speed.
>
>
>
>
> Classic Speed: 10
>
> Infinity Speed: 7
>
> Sprint Speed: 13
>
>

>
> With the map size issue solved, we can implement a De-Sprint mechanic to combat the “Get outta jail free card” effect.
>
> Boom. Issues solved.

Although I can see your point and how it does have some merit to it, you must realize that sprint isn’t the only factor that people do not like about Infinity Slayer. Other additions such as personal loadouts, armor abilities, instant respawns, and ordinance also contribute to why people dislike Infinity Slayer. fixing sprint simple does not solve the problem about why individuals dislike Infinity Slayer. In addition to sprint, armour abilities, instant respawn, and ordinance also do contribute to map movement. And to your point about how implementing both playlists into matchmaking would not split the community; here’s why it does.

When Halo 4 was released there were absolutely no kind of classic playlists let alone custom games options available to toggle Sprint on and off. 343 decided to implement a throwback to these classic playlists with the addition of legendary slayer. When Legendary Slayer was released little people played it because it did not provide the classic feel they wanted. Although, many still wanted a more barebones halo experience, 343 saw that not many individuals played on this playlist and opted to implement that into Infinity Slayer. Now whenever someone wants to play any sort of relevant classic Halo matchmaking, they are forced to play with others instead want to play Infinity Slayer.

Is that fair to those who want a classic playlist?

Now it seems like I’m contradicting my point about abandoning one side of the community with fairness. I’m not.

I’m simply stating that if they decide to create both playlists, one of them will turn out half baked, and as a result, would cause more people to decide to go to one playlist over the other. Thus this makes one side of the community angry with the other as their style of play is becoming less and less popular.

Personally, it’s rather hard to have a neutral point of view on this topic.

But back to the point. Implementing something like that could work. But it would STILL fragment the community further more as it would cause then both these play styles to have the same sort of attention. That would cause a gap in the community as one side of the community would not like to play with the other as one side prefers a different style of gameplay over the other. And that, by definition, causes fragmentation.

> > I really see no reason why Infinity can’t simply be a playlist instead of its own separate mode. That way Legendary mode will get much needed attention while the smaller Infinity community won’t be left hanging.
>
> A set of maps would have to be designed separately from the default maps in order for them to work with Infinity. This isn’t practical for a full half of the game being Infinity, never mind a single playlist.
>
> It’s an extremely tricky situation at best, and an almost impossible one at worst. It would seem to me that 343 will need to have a consistent style of gameplay to work with, so that they can efficiently build a full game around that gameplay.
>
> Who knows? Maybe it will be yet another radical shift from what we know now, into a style of gameplay which neither Infinity nor Traditional fans can identify with.
> This would still require that the game is built from the ground up with that gameplay in mind.
>
> Whatever gameplay they go with, I think it needs to be their focus.

This ^

> > I really see no reason why Infinity can’t simply be a playlist instead of its own separate mode. That way Legendary mode will get much needed attention while the smaller Infinity community won’t be left hanging.
>
> A set of maps would have to be designed separately from the default maps in order for them to work with Infinity. This isn’t practical for a full half of the game being Infinity, never mind a single playlist.
>
> It’s an extremely tricky situation at best, and an almost impossible one at worst. It would seem to me that 343 will need to have a consistent style of gameplay to work with, so that they can efficiently build a full game around that gameplay.
>
> Who knows? Maybe it will be yet another radical shift from what we know now, into a style of gameplay which neither Infinity nor Traditional fans can identify with.
> This would still require that the game is built from the ground up with that gameplay in mind.
>
> Whatever gameplay they go with, I think it needs to be their focus.

They made it work with Anniversary.

> They made it work with Anniversary.

If Infinity fans agree with your view that Classic maps will work fine with Infinity gameplay, then perhaps it isn’t a problem from that point of view.

Unfortunately, the issues with dividing the game between two opposing types of gameplay go beyond the maps.

We have the playlist problems to deal with.
We have the strong possibility that the game’s gameplay identity would be weakened.
We have the problem of how a split gameplay in multiplayer would impact the Campaign.
We have to deal with the problem of balance. Loadout weapons and abilities would not be balanced the same way as map pickups in an ideal Halo.
Then there are potential problems which would only emerge once the game had actually been made to cater to both.

Like I always try to mention when talking about this subject, I’m not purposely trying to get rid of Infinity, it’s just that I genuinely can’t see how they could live together in the same game without significant problems.
I would love to be wrong on this one, believe me.

> > > I really see no reason why Infinity can’t simply be a playlist instead of its own separate mode. That way Legendary mode will get much needed attention while the smaller Infinity community won’t be left hanging.
> >
> > A set of maps would have to be designed separately from the default maps in order for them to work with Infinity. This isn’t practical for a full half of the game being Infinity, never mind a single playlist.
> >
> > It’s an extremely tricky situation at best, and an almost impossible one at worst. It would seem to me that 343 will need to have a consistent style of gameplay to work with, so that they can efficiently build a full game around that gameplay.
> >
> > Who knows? Maybe it will be yet another radical shift from what we know now, into a style of gameplay which neither Infinity nor Traditional fans can identify with.
> > This would still require that the game is built from the ground up with that gameplay in mind.
> >
> > Whatever gameplay they go with, I think it needs to be their focus.
>
> They made it work with Anniversary.

They made it “work” for Anniversary because they took the existing Halo Reach engine and simply made maps for them for both the implementation for both armor abilities and for without armor abilities. And by saying they “worked” for both styles of gameplay is an overstatement. Even you cannot say the remake of Prisoner (Solitary) “worked” with Armor Abilities because the jetpack absolutely dissolved the importance of height advantage as anyone with the jetpack could just get to the top with ease.

The whole concept of Infinity is flawed. Why? Because it is Anti-Halo: unbalanced not competitive.

However, we can’t simply go back to Classic because Halo does need to evolve, just without breaking it’s core formula. How do you do that? Simple:

-De-Scope
-No Sprint
-No Perks
-No loadouts: We should only be able to choose the primary weapon (the balance is good enough in H4 to allow for that). Secondary Weapon should be the Magnum and we should spawn with Frags.
-Ordnance: Map Ordnance works exactly like in Throwdown. That way, new players know where and when the weapon spawns but the game is still balanced. Scrap POD
-Armor Abilities spawn on maps (true evolution of equipment).

This is the best direction Halo 5 can take gameplay-wise IMO.

Both, but as a Campaign player Infinity settings are FAR superior

> 1. Implementing both Classic and Infinity playlists would take a great deal of development time which, sadly, Halo Xbox One does not have much of. Implementing both would cause other aspects and features of the game to be lacking such as Campaign or Firefight/Spartan Ops. (Ex. Removal of Skulls in campaign, or shorter Spartan Ops.)

Not really. There are multiplayer guys working on multiplayer and campaign guys working on campaign. With Spartan Ops likely cut and the huge number of new employees that fled into 343i both by the end of Halo 4’s dev cycle and after it, time shouldn’t be too much of a negative factor. Resources, on the other hand, are a different beast but I still think it’s more than manageable to include Legendary and Infinity settings off the bat.

> 2. Having Both Classic and Infinity Playlists would further fragment the community more than it already is.

This is just wrong. The community is already fragmented and the only way to make a product like able by all is to give both sides what they want.

> 3. Having these two distinct styles of play would cause developers having to choose which style of play would be implemented in Campaign/Spartan Ops which could lead to one side of the community unable to play Campaign/Spartan Ops the way they want to play.

This is just wrong. Having Sprint in the campaign (for instance) would not be a bad thing and would not render it unplayable. Besides, the campaign has always had unique features that differentiate it from multiplayer.

> 4. Implementing these two very distinct sandboxes together would lead to multiplayer maps being either too big for classic gameplay or too small for implementation of Sprint and Armor Abilities.

That is arguable. I think there are ways to make everyone happy here too. For instance, making sprint only give an extremely small speed boost (like 10-20%) and making the default speed in classic playlists higher. But to be honest, Infinity can live without Sprint and it can live with the more OP/game breaking AAs (Jet Pack and Camo, for instance) as on-map spawns. Infinity as it is today is not what it will look like in Halo 5, nor is today’s Legendary. Both variants will be improved on and if both are taken into consideration at the game’s conception, both can work on the same maps and gametypes with only slight tweaks.

Not really. There are multiplayer guys working on multiplayer and campaign guys working on campaign. With Spartan Ops likely cut and the huge number of new employees that fled into 343i both by the end of Halo 4’s dev cycle and after it, time shouldn’t be too much of a negative factor. Resources, on the other hand, are a different beast but I still think it’s more than manageable to include Legendary and Infinity settings off the bat.

As I do agree that 343i have both a team for both multiplayer and campaign, we also must not assume that all of these new employees at 343i are working solely on Halo Xbox One. It’s a known fact that 343 currently has multiple Halo projects in the works such as Halo Xbox One , The Halo Television Series, as well as an unannounced project Halo Project that is in the works. Nevertheless even if 343i did have a hugely significant staff increase we must also consider that 343 is working with a whole new system, The Xbox One, and must find out the kinks of the system in order to create a formidable product. Nevertheless, 343i will have a shorter development cycle than most other Halo games to date and will still prove to be a herculean task trying to implement all of the core aspects of the Halo experience while still being able to please the community.

This is just wrong. The community is already fragmented and the only way to make a product like able by all is to give both sides what they want.

It would be more fragmented than it already is. Imagine Halo Xbox One launching with both Classic and Infinity Playlists. We will see a huge divide amongst two separate communities of Classic and Infinity playlists that 343i has to listen to. The reason why it would cause more of a divide rather than now is because Halo 4 did not launch with any kind of classic playlists in mind and most classic players had to conform and play Infinity Slayer. 343i kind of forced these settings on to the classic players making them play these gametypes that they didn’t enjoy. As a result it didn’t fragment the community as much as it would have if Halo 4 launched with both Classic AND Infinity playlists in mind.

This is just wrong. Having Sprint in the campaign (for instance) would not be a bad thing and would not render it unplayable. Besides, the campaign has always had unique features that differentiate it from multiplayer.

Although I see your point, let me answer it with a rebuttal. The original Halo Trilogy’s campaign was heralded for it’s open environments and wide-open level design. With the inclusion of Sprint and Armor-Abilities, however, make the missions feel smaller as you are able to traverse these missions more quickly and with more bravado. This result in a more seemingly linear approach to the campaign. I mean, look at the difference between Halo 4’s campaign and Halo 3’s. The difference is enormous as Halo 3 had more open level design as well as more robust encounters that felt as if it had more than one way of dealing with them. (The Covenant Double-Scarab battle anyone?) Look, I agree that armor abilities and sprint do add a lot to the campaign but you must also realize that it poses some threat to the campaign level design from previous games that many classic players do enjoy.

That is arguable. I think there are ways to make everyone happy here too. For instance, making sprint only give an extremely small speed boost (like 10-20%) and making the default speed in classic playlists higher. But to be honest, Infinity can live without Sprint and it can live with the more OP/game breaking AAs (Jet Pack and Camo, for instance) as on-map spawns. Infinity as it is today is not what it will look like in Halo 5, nor is today’s Legendary. Both variants will be improved on and if both are taken into consideration at the game’s conception, both can work on the same maps and gametypes with only slight tweaks.

Look, I do understand the point you are trying to make, but Infinity settings do play a larger role in map design than you may think. Believing that scrapping Sprint, Jet-pack, and Active Camo will not just solve the problem. Other problems persist on map flow such as random ordinance drops, personal ordinance, loadouts, instant re spawns, and once again, armor abilities. Making maps that are able to implement both styles of play are mediocre at best and near unplayable for one side or the other at worst. With the argument of how Infinity and Legendary settings being improved upon in the future installments is pure assumption. When 343i were talking about the development of Halo 4, they said that they would include some sort of playlist at launch (or in the near future) that will appeal to classic fans. They hadn’t done it at launch and they still have not done it successfully. Legendary still does not have a classic Halo feel with it’s inclusion of sprint, although it is a step in the right direction. Think back upon all of the promises that 343 was unable to keep because of a limited development time. Or perhaps a lot of the features they removed such as Campaign Theater or Custom Games Gametypes. Assuming that 343i will improve upon both play styles and have them both ready at launch is only getting our hopes up just to get them smashed back down. Look, I would love to proven wrong here, but unless 343i gives us some concrete details on their multiplayer, as a community, out voice must be heard in order to create a more focused Halo experience.

Define Halo experience

Define Halo experience

Whenever I mention “Halo Experience” I’m simply talking about a Halo game as a whole .(Ex. Campaign, Multiplayer Matchmaking, Custom Games, Forge, Theater, and Firefight/Spartan Ops.) Therefore, when I refer to choosing one play style over the other, I simply am meaning that we don’t focus on both Classic AND Infinity and rather pick one so we can a better Halo Experience as development time can then be allocated to other parts of the game mentioned above. Additionally, focusing the gameplay on one style or the other would focus in on the “Halo Experience” and would therefore created a more direct product rather than trying to appeal to both audiences.

Here’s a simple solution for maps - Half the maps will be made for Classic, Half for Infinity, then there can be forge maps