Classic Playlist. Need Fan and Dev Input

Games Other Halo
1

Just before you end up reading too much thinking I will be talking about how a classic playlist is needed, or what settings it should be, I want to stop you now. I believe that there SHOULD NOT be a Classic playlist because I believe it defeats the purpose.

Halo has always been about providing options for people to play the game the way they want to. And in that case I’d love to see a middle ground were Old School and New School Halo can co-exist. But then again I don’t. I remember the reason I started playing Halo was because I loved the shooter elements. And I loved all the different ways you could play. Ways you could play that didn’t evolve the need for a personal Loadout or choosing a Armor Ability.

It was more that you played the game the way you wanted to. Do you prefer bigger engagements and vehicle play? Then Big Team Battle was your playlist. Prefer objective over slayer? Team Objective. Rather mindlessly kill people? Team Slayer. How bout you and a buddy against the world? Multi-Team. The list goes on and on.

So I don’t like the idea of a Classic playlist because it feels like putting a small band-aid on a big gaping wound. It’s compromising. It would be one playlist with no Loadouts, AA’s, weapons on map, and no OP weapons like the Binary Rifle. I’d personally like to see this is every playlist instead of only being able to enjoy one.

Now I don’t hate Loadouts, but I just feel that in a game where weapons have always been placed on the map it was unnecessary. I mean look at a game like COD. Very dependent on Classes because weapons are not placed on map. Loadouts are very much so needed.

And for the late adapters that started in Reach and Halo 4 I don’t want to segregate those players and take away apart of the game that they like. But in previous Halo’s no one ever complained that they couldn’t customize their loadouts, hell, we never knew the meaning of the word. Now yes, there was always complaints of being spawn trapped by a team wielding BR’s when it was AR starts on Zanzibar, or Valhalla. But many saw this as a way to get better, to learn how to escape and avoid these situations.

Halo was great because the sandbox was so rich that it allowed for any kind of play style. I just feel that if we start only wanting compromise that this game will never fully return to how great it once was. Why can’t we reach a middle ground between what long time fans and new comers both look for? Just a solid FPS that is fun to play?

Thats all we all just want. We don’t look for gimmicks or the easy way out. Its fun going against higher skilled players because you learn new tricks and tactics. Change is good, but a classic playlist is not the answer as I truly believe.

TL:DR - A classic playlist is just compromising and it doesn’t promote the overall change that needs to be made. What do you, the fans, and 343 believe?

I’d like to get a honest response from everyone, and atleast a actual 343 employee to weigh in.

2

I would greatly appreciate fan/dev input. Thanks guys.

3

I completely agree with you. I think that at least the the slayer playlists need some gametype variants that suit many different communities. I think intermediary gametypes between strictly classic and strictly infinity will help the groups intermingle and perhaps even discover a better way to play. This is scary for those who like the Halo 4 status quo though. I’ve found that they want their infinity slayer exactly the way it is and that makes me sad. before I present my idea, please no one freak out at me because you don’t agree with me. present your own idea to counter it if you like. I have no problem exchanging ideas.

I’ll use the infinity slayer playlist as an example for my idea:
Infinity Slayer should have three gametypes within the playlist. One for each slot in voting. the regular Infinity Slayer gametype will always be first when my idea is initially implemented so to smooth it over with those who like it as is. The second choice would be the medium gametype called Team Slayer. Team slayer would still use custom loadouts but with a forced magnum secondary and fragmentation grenades (this would be especially needed in BTB), and personal ordnance would no longer have sniper weapons and heavy power weapons, instead it would have percision loadout weapons. Power weapons would only be found on the map. The third gametype would be the most classic friendly but still include loadouts, sprint, and PO. It would be called Arena Slayer. There would be three loadouts: AR, Storm rifle, and suppressor. All of them with a magnum secondary, frag grenades, resupply and explosives. No armor abilities at spawn, because that will be the only thing in personal ordnance. All weapons would be found on map like in previous titles.

A forth game variant (classic slayer) could be rotated in and out to replace the second or third option. This would be optimized to be as close to older slayer gametypes as possible, with the exception of sprint, which would still be implemented. I don’t see them ever making a no sprint option, so that would have to be a concession of the hardcore classic community.

Either way any of these options would make social slayer more tolerable for me. The second option, team slayer, is what I wish Infinity Slayer always was. It’s new and fun, but still leaves a little room for some fundamental halo gameplay. The third option, Arena Slayer, would honestly be my favorite to play. The PO would still be a cool thing to get without affecting the arena style of play, and although the loadouts would be slightly different it wouldn’t be nearly gamebreaking. Honestly I think we could maintain the community without incorporating a hardcore classic slayer gametype.

What do you think?

4

Hmmmmmmm, it’s good but needs more tarps I’d say.

5

> This is scary for those who like the Halo 4 status quo though. I’ve found that they want their infinity slayer exactly the way it is and that makes me sad.

I don’t mean to disrespect anyone by saying this, but both sides have “hardliners” who refuse to tolerate settings that differ from what they’re used to.

I agree that the basic premise of one or two intermediate gametypes could help to broaden everyone’s horizons.

> Team slayer would still use custom loadouts but with a forced magnum secondary and fragmentation grenades (this would be especially needed in BTB)

As far as I am aware, the game does not currently support the use of Personal Loadouts but with gametype-defined restrictions. 343i would need a TU to do something like that.

> A forth game variant (classic slayer) could be rotated in and out to replace the second or third option. This would be optimized to be as close to older slayer gametypes as possible, with the exception of sprint, which would still be implemented. I don’t see them ever making a no sprint option, so that would have to be a concession of the hardcore classic community.

They already have, though whether or not they’ll use it where asked is another matter.

Sprint is disabled for Flood and Alpha Flood players in the Flood gametype, and for CTF Flag Carriers (though that last one could be a separate side-effect of the flag). Sprint usage is a hidden player trait that only the devs can access.

6

> Hmmmmmmm, it’s good but needs more tarps I’d say.

The tarp thing is a little funny, but let’s try not to drag it into serious threads.

7

@David

I totally agree that both extremes have their hardliners, the only difference being that the classic social community doesn’t have anything to lose and those who love infinity have two whole playlists to themselves.

Either way I thinks it’s important to build a base halo gameplay that can be enjoyed by both communities together moving forward.

8

> Either way I thinks it’s important to build a base halo gameplay that can be enjoyed by both communities together moving forward.

Somewhere in the world, there’s a happy hammer. Somewhere else, a nail is waking up with a headache. :slight_smile:

9

I was thinking about this same thing. Rename Infinity Slayer to straight “Slayer”. This would have several Slayer variants in it: Infinity Slayer, Slayer Pro, Classic Slayer, Slayer BR, Slayer DMR Covenant Slayer (Covenant weapons only in load outs), Promethean Slayer (Promethean weapons only in load outs). These are just examples of things I would like to see in that playlist.

I would also rename Infinity Big Team to Big Team Battle. This really needs to happen. This would of course contain some of the slayer variants I mentioned above but also some Objective games as well.

I like the Infinity Slayer game but it’s randomness even gets to me some times.

10

David, any comments on my OP? Thanks.

11

> David, any comments on my OP? Thanks.

I can’t be sure how much I’d personally enjoy (and want to advocate for) the application of Classic gameplay to most or all of Matchmaking, as I don’t get to play Classic modes on a regular basis. I think I’m neutral on the subject, but have no way to know for sure. :\

(I suspect that quite a few people have a similar mindset. A Classic playlist could certainly help to make up people’s minds, and could move more people to advocate for Classic gameplay in a wider setting.)

That said, I can see the appeal of removing Personal Loadouts from Matchmaking. Loadouts do a great job at introducing strategy to Spartan Ops, an experience where imbalance is forgiven (a computer’s advantage is just difficulty) and deaths are frequent enough that players don’t feel “trapped” in a loadout. Their effects on Matchmaking are harder to measure, but they can certainly lead to questionable outcomes. (Sticks are more common in Halo 4 than they ever have been, as are EMPs on vehicles and kills with Mauler-esque weaponry.)

Regardless of my own opinion on the matter, I’m not sure that such a change would happen for Halo 4. There are people who legitimately enjoy the Infinity-style gameplay, and trying to introduce a widespread Classic mode will only lead to the TU/Vanilla divide that we saw in the Reach era. I personally also suspect that it could be treated as a veritable admission of failure, leading to even more mocking by many of the very same people who are calling for such a change in the first place. :\

12

343I deserves to be mocked. They claim to know halo then demonstrate they know nothing about it in the way they designed both the multiplayer and campaign. Didn’t one of them even have to have the lore explained to them?

You want a veritable admission of failure? MLG, Throwdown, Population Counts, or that blog post Frank had to write.

How to fix Halo 4 Matchmaking:
-Make starting rifles equal.
-Remove power weapons from loadouts.
-Remove overpowered abilities.
-Besides that, keep loadouts as they are now.
-Loadout weapons on the map as resupply for loadout gamemodes or a source of weapons for arena gamemodes.
-Weapons placed on the map in an organized manner.
-Personal Ordnance becomes a tiered system, isn’t in every gamemode, isn’t in objective gamemodes.
-Add new gametypes and maps to each playlist.
-Add a few arena-style playlists.

It’s not hard. It’s not rocket science. In fact those changes would probably please everyone except the people who abuse overpowered items. Not everyone hates loadouts, many competitive players support them even, they need fixed instead of removed.

Can’t remove some of those in Halo 4? Then nerf them to a respectable level until Halo 5 comes out, and for -Yoinks!- sake make sure you do better with the next release. Don’t care if it takes 3-4 years, just do better.

> But I like being handed random advantages left and right because I can’t learn to play and good players r meanies! I want to farm my K/D and rank in a playlist where I don’t get shredded!

Then we’ll give you a single Infinity playlist that has all this garbage contained within it, and keep it from spreading to the rest of matchmaking.

13

> Team slayer would still use custom loadouts but with a forced magnum secondary and fragmentation grenades (this would be especially needed in BTB)

As far as I am aware, the game does not currently support the use of Personal Loadouts but with gametype-defined restrictions. 343i would need a TU to do something like that.
[/quote]
Hey David,

I don’t know if you’re still following this thread, but it is possible. Just tested it in custom games. You can leave the loadouts set in the Personal Loadouts setting under General Settings, and change the Secondary Weapon and Grenade Count in the Base Player Traits under the Traits section. This would allow players to still choose their individual loadouts but replace certain features to match gametype specifications and does not require a TU. There is also an option to affect the Primary Weapon in this same way.

This makes me quite excited that this is possible, and I think it is definitely something 343i should implement in Big Team and consider testing in other gametypes and playlists.

343! You should do this!

14

You’re swimming against the current, mate. Halo will never totally go back to its admirable roots, no matter how much a certain part of the fanbase wants it to. A classic playlist may be a bandage, but a bandage is certainly better than nothing if there is nothing else on hand, which is regrettably the case.

I’d personally like a potential classic playlist to be 4v4 Team Slayer reminiscent of Halo 2 and 3 with two equally weighted gametypes: Slayer and Slayer BRs. Slayer would obviously be AR and Magnum starts for a more nostalgic, casual feel. Slayer BRs would be BR and Magnum starts for a more competitive feel.

There would be no ordnance, loadouts sprint, armour abilities, perks, waypoints floating over weapons (there would certainly be weapons on the map), etc. Basically anything introduced after Halo 3 would not be included. Weapon strengths would be roughly the same as in Halo 2 or 3 and grenades (starting with 2, pickup enabled as in previous games) would have roughly that same strength and damage radius as in Halo 3. I personally prefer 3 hit melee (with bleedthrough, obviously) as I consider 2 hit melee to be grossly overpowered, but either is fine.

One thing I would really love would be the inclusion of a few medium sized maps with Ghosts and Mongeese for that unique Last Resort/High Ground/Burial Mounds feel from Halo 2 and 3. I found maps like that to be sorely lacking in Reach, though Reach’s atrocious vehicle system may have been at fault. Either way, Reach is irrelevant. That’s the whole point.

If such a playlist is successful, I’d love to see the addition of Classic BTB (that’d be a definite favourite of mine), Objective, and FFA. That’d be four playlists for the old-time Halo fans to squirrel away into without compromising the rest of the game. That way, though of course not everyone would be happy, a far larger percentage of the population would be content.

15

> > David, any comments on my OP? Thanks.
>
> I can’t be sure how much I’d personally enjoy (and want to advocate for) the application of Classic gameplay to most or all of Matchmaking, as I don’t get to play Classic modes on a regular basis. I think I’m neutral on the subject, but have no way to know for sure. :
>
> (I suspect that quite a few people have a similar mindset. A Classic playlist could certainly help to make up people’s minds, and could move more people to advocate for Classic gameplay in a wider setting.)
>
> That said, I can see the appeal of removing Personal Loadouts from Matchmaking. Loadouts do a great job at introducing strategy to Spartan Ops, an experience where imbalance is forgiven (a computer’s advantage is just difficulty) and deaths are frequent enough that players don’t feel “trapped” in a loadout. Their effects on Matchmaking are harder to measure, but they can certainly lead to questionable outcomes. (Sticks are more common in Halo 4 than they ever have been, as are EMPs on vehicles and kills with Mauler-esque weaponry.)
>
> Regardless of my own opinion on the matter, I’m not sure that such a change would happen for Halo 4. There are people who legitimately enjoy the Infinity-style gameplay, and trying to introduce a widespread Classic mode will only lead to the TU/Vanilla divide that we saw in the Reach era. I personally also suspect that it could be treated as a veritable admission of failure, leading to even more mocking by many of the very same people who are calling for such a change in the first place. :\

This is what I don’t like about classic playlists; they cause a schism in the Halo community as well as playlist segregation.

Classic playlist won’t work because they do not inherently offer enough variety in them. People are asking for “a classic playlist” which would be a 4v4 team slayer oriented playlist with objective sprinkled on.

What it fails to accomplish is a setting for everyone. I love every playlist in Halo from Action Sack to Team Slayer to Big Team Battle to Team SWAT. A single classic playlist would only get boring to a player like me. And like you said David, if they divide the playlist like they did in Reach they are only admitting they failed.

As would be removing personal loadouts from the game and replaced with static loadouts. It’s a vicious and precarious predicament that we are in. Unfortunately this also hinders any major changes to the game as well.

16

> > Team slayer would still use custom loadouts but with a forced magnum secondary and fragmentation grenades (this would be especially needed in BTB)
>
> As far as I am aware, the game does not currently support the use of Personal Loadouts but with gametype-defined restrictions. 343i would need a TU to do something like that.

Actually this is one of the few things you can do in custom game options. If you edit base player traits selecting weapons/ grenades/ AA/ Perks they actually override loadouts.

17

if you want a “classic” experience, you need to shut off sprint.

sprint needs to go.

18

Like most threads, the first few comments are well thought out, and then they get worse as you go down.

I’ve never thought about the idea of just immersing a classic feel as a votable option in Infinity slayer, but I’m actually liking it. I’m guessing I’m one of the very few fans who enjoy both the old school and the new school.

343’s biggest issue right now is just getting people to come back and play the game. Everyone thought that Team Throwdown would bring all the competitive players, but that just isn’t the case. Numbers are still low.

I think the visual ranking system is what will bring back the most players, and I don’t necessarily think that you need to have “classic” or “pro” settings to have a competitive playlist.

So I think inputting classic settings into the team infinity slayer playlist would be the best option, because that’s where the population is now, and you don’t need to dilute the population even more.

19

I wish the idea of incorporated classic elements was more mainstream. I just don’t understand why 343 doesn’t just test a few community ideas out, rather than just making us feel ignored. I’m not advocating taking away Infinity Slayer, just adding some variety in gametypes to the playlist. There have been many ideas in the community about how to limit loadouts and PO without destroying those new elements of the game. This may sound rude, but I feel like 343 is afraid the community overall might enjoy a more balanced slayer gametype more than their beloved Infinity Slayer.

343 how bout adding a playlist a few weeks from now called Custom Community Slayer. You could consolidate the community ideas for a more balanced halo experience into a few slayer gametypes and see which ones end up being the most popular after a few months and incorporate them into a primary Slayer playlist with Infinity Slayer. You already have maps with more classic map placements due to team throwdown so you wouldn’t even have to make that an issue. Please 343 industries, you’re my only hope!

20

I dont think anyone was under the impression Team Throwdown would bring back population, but it was a step in the right direction and made me feel 343i actually cracked open its own website and read some feedback.

However without a doubt, VIGR mixed with throwdown, mixed with some classic playlist WOULD bring the population back. I have 4 friends right now that I have been playing with since H2 who have said repeatedly they would come back if they bring back ranked. They stopped playing H4 in December. I am sure there are other people playing Halo who had friends they used to play with all the time and now those friends no longer play Halo Four. Or as some have called Halo Fouresta, due to its fiesta like game play.

Throwdown is a step in the right direction, classic playlist would be as well. But April will ultimately decide if this game and franchise live on. Other wise I will wait to read about what Halo 5 will include and hopefully the 1-50 ranking system will back then.