Classic Halo is the only way

I made a post about this about a year ago you can find it here Please the classic fans first and the rest follow. | Halo Infinite | Forums | Halo - Official Site (halowaypoint.com)

Now that Ive played Infinite I can see that they are making the exact mistake I was pretty confident they would make. This is CRUCIAL

You cannot please Halo purists with a Halo game that is not Classic… Period… You changed the art style back for us, but have made the gameplay even less like Halo. We dont like Halo 4 and 5 because they are not Classic Halo games. Halo Infinite is even less like Halo than 4 and 5 are…

You cannot make Halo a better version of Call of Duty or Rainbow six or Valorant or any other modern FPS on the market. There are so many things these games do better in that genre that cannot be done in Halo without making a game that isnt Halo.

Cod/Siege/Valorant players who are all hyped for Infinite will not stick around for long. They will realize that the game theyve come from is a better version of the style of game they like to play and will just go back.

That leaves the Halo 4 and 5 fans and 343 supporters who many have already said they dont like the art style, and want thrusters back etc…

Trying to please everyone will not work out. This game will be huge on release… Give it a few months and it will be in the same boat as 4 and 5 with probably even less players.

Stop trying to appeal to the masses. Stop trying to be the biggest game on the block.

Make a proper classic Halo game, that true Halo purists will love and play forever and the rest will follow. Otherwise they will continue to just hop from trend to trend. From big game release to the next.

From what Ive played, Infinite is not worthy of being called a Halo game.

Im not sure we played the same preview. Iv been a halo fan since CE. I remember playing halo 2 on xbox live before xbox live was a thing everyone had. You dont outline what your issue is other than its not classic halo. But i feel your forgetting that halo 3 wasnt classic halo when we started from halo 2.

Halo 3 was slower, it added equipment that changed the very foundation of how gun fights worked. Yet now its considered one of the best halo games ever (even if believe 2 was better)

My point is you can add to halo without it being a cod clone. They have dropped most the things i jad issues with from halo 4 and 5. As a classic halo player that still plays mcc weekly, i am happy woth the direction the game seems to be going.

Im not a fan of the lack of spartan collision or friendly fire but outside of that and the slightly cluncky feel the controls have i really enjoyed my time with infinite.

Your entirely entitled to your opinion, and lucky for you they have a way to play classic halo right now via the mcc. However i am excited for infinite and to see what other supprises are still in store for us.

I disagree. This catches that lightning in the bottle that classic Halo had and modernizes it. This feels like Halo. All of my friends who hated Halo 4 and 5 loved this. They were Halo 2 and 3 purists and competed at a high level during comps.

The broad group of classic Halo fans are divided too. Being a classic fan doesn’t by default make you not appreciate and love Infinite. If you love classic Halo and only pure classic Halo you still have Halo MCC. The majority doesn’t want that back.

You state about the game dying soon yet Halo MCC has low numbers when compared to bigger shooters. If people truly wanted that experience it would be far more populated.

> 2533274851347531;2:
> Im not sure we played the same preview. Iv been a halo fan since CE. I remember playing halo 2 on xbox live before xbox live was a thing everyone had. You dont outline what your issue is other than its not classic halo. But i feel your forgetting that halo 3 wasnt classic halo when we started from halo 2.
>
> Halo 3 was slower, it added equipment that changed the very foundation of how gun fights worked. Yet now its considered one of the best halo games ever (even if believe 2 was better)
>
> My point is you can add to halo without it being a cod clone. They have dropped most the things i jad issues with from halo 4 and 5. As a classic halo player that still plays mcc weekly, i am happy woth the direction the game seems to be going.
>
> Im not a fan of the lack of spartan collision or friendly fire but outside of that and the slightly cluncky feel the controls have i really enjoyed my time with infinite.
>
> Your entirely entitled to your opinion, and lucky for you they have a way to play classic halo right now via the mcc. However i am excited for infinite and to see what other supprises are still in store for us.

I outlined my issues very clearly and distinctly of every single mechanic that has been altered in the game to be more like a “cod” type of game.

Mods locked the thread.

Here is my post explaining this in better detail

  1. Weapons too OP. (All of the weapons are op and have no weakness and or quirks to them.) They kill too fast and they have been normalized to fulfill more broad roles. Examples such as Shotgun has more range and is now automatic. AR has more killing range and is more lethal in general. Plasma weapons travel faster and have a “reload” function now. Making them like regular guns.

  2. BR has more depth than all other mid range non power weapons. The BR is magic and I cant even explain it with words. Yet the BR is barely in the game and now must compete with Commando and AR which are very simple weapons in comparison. There is a reason why every hardcore Halo player loves the BR and thats because it is an incredibly designed weapon that works so well for Halo.

  3. Maps have no depth in terms of Angles and Movement. This one is hard to explain, but compare maps like Guardian, Lockout and Construct to the maps in Infinite weve seen. These maps all have much more depth. many more angles, power positions and routes between them. The maps are more like COD maps now, very simple.

  4. Too fast movement. (Halo at its core is strategy fps. not Twitch fps.)

  5. Range is different. Range has been normalized at mid. Most encounters are mid range because of design (Like Cod) so Melee and cqb now take a back seat.
    You will notice there are no strict cqb weapons in infinite and the close range weapons that are in game have also some type of mid range capability. The strategy element of weapons has been significantly reduced.

  6. The Golden triangle, Guns/Melee/Grenades are no longer in balance. Melee and Grenades have been reduced due to the range and overall effectiveness of the guns.

  7. Hit markers. This is a way bigger deal than it seems. Fighting at mid to long range without hit markers is way different than with them. Hit markers give away too much information about damage and change the strategy of the players. In Halo 3 a lot of times you dont know exactly how close an enemy is to dying and exactly how many bursts it will take from a BR to kill them. So it makes decision making much more cautious. This gives combat much more depth.

Overall, Halo Infinite for these reasons feels like a traditional modern shooter and does not feel like Halo. All of the quirks have been rubbed out, the gameplay has been ironed down and molded into a very simple, aiming based, modern shooter. The strategical elements of the game have been reduced in favor for more speed and mechanical skill potential.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274792737987;3:
> I disagree. This catches that lightning in the bottle that classic Halo had and modernizes it. This feels like Halo. All of my friends who hated Halo 4 and 5 loved this. They were Halo 2 and 3 purists and competed at a high level during comps.
>
> The broad group of classic Halo fans are divided too. Being a classic fan doesn’t by default make you not appreciate and love Infinite. If you love classic Halo and only pure classic Halo you still have Halo MCC. The majority doesn’t want that back.
>
> You state about the game dying soon yet Halo MCC has low numbers when compared to bigger shooters. If people truly wanted that experience it would be far more populated.

You do realize that Halo 3 is like a 15 year old game?

Halo ce is 20 years old. The fact people are still playing them proves they are superior games.

Id bet good money that in 10 years more will be playing Halo 3 still than infinite, unless drastic changes are made.

Imagine living in a world where you think a Halo Infinite has less in common with classic Halo than Halo 4…

I wonder how being that disconnected from reality feels?

> 2614366390849210;6:
> Imagine living in a world where you think a Halo Infinite has less in common with classic Halo than Halo 4…
>
> I wonder how being that disconnected from reality feels?

umm it does…

the core gameplay that is. Movement and gunplay/ range and combat. Infinite is by far the least Halo, Halo game ever made.

> 2535423661615819;5:
> > 2533274792737987;3:
> > I disagree. This catches that lightning in the bottle that classic Halo had and modernizes it. This feels like Halo. All of my friends who hated Halo 4 and 5 loved this. They were Halo 2 and 3 purists and competed at a high level during comps.
> >
> > The broad group of classic Halo fans are divided too. Being a classic fan doesn’t by default make you not appreciate and love Infinite. If you love classic Halo and only pure classic Halo you still have Halo MCC. The majority doesn’t want that back.
> >
> > You state about the game dying soon yet Halo MCC has low numbers when compared to bigger shooters. If people truly wanted that experience it would be far more populated.
>
> You do realize that Halo 3 is like a 15 year old game?
>
> Halo ce is 20 years old. The fact people are still playing them proves they are superior games.
>
> Id bet good money that in 10 years more will be playing Halo 3 still than infinite, unless drastic changes are made.

This counter argument is bizarre. Are they trying to make a game in 2021 or not? Because last time I checked Halo has an issue bringing in new people. You talk about how the game is going to die yet ignore the majority hate the slow gameplay of classic.

> 2533274792737987;8:
> > 2535423661615819;5:
> > > 2533274792737987;3:
> > >
>
> This counter argument is bizarre. Are they trying to make a game in 2021 or not? Because last time I checked Halo has an issue bringing in new people. You talk about how the game is going to die yet ignore the majority hate the slow gameplay of classic.

New people that will just leave for another new shiny game in about 3-6 months. Which is my point.

Also, the majority doesnt hate slow gameplay lol. maybe the majority who are just looking for a new game to play for a while. Not actual Halo fans buddy

> 2535423661615819;7:
> > 2614366390849210;6:
> > Imagine living in a world where you think a Halo Infinite has less in common with classic Halo than Halo 4…
> >
> > I wonder how being that disconnected from reality feels?
>
> umm it does…
>
> the core gameplay that is. Movement and gunplay/ range and combat. Infinite is by far the least Halo, Halo game ever made.

If your only issue with Infinite is you think the gameplay is too fast compared to the original trilogy, you should count your lucky stripes after we had to suffer through the abominations of “Halo gameplay” that Reach and H4 gave us.

(I still played the crap out of both Reach and H4 because even a bad Halo game is head and shoulders over most other “great” game series out their imo).

> 2533274792737987;8:
> > 2535423661615819;5:
> > > 2533274792737987;3:
> > > I disagree. This catches that lightning in the bottle that classic Halo had and modernizes it. This feels like Halo. All of my friends who hated Halo 4 and 5 loved this. They were Halo 2 and 3 purists and competed at a high level during comps.
> > >
> > > The broad group of classic Halo fans are divided too. Being a classic fan doesn’t by default make you not appreciate and love Infinite. If you love classic Halo and only pure classic Halo you still have Halo MCC. The majority doesn’t want that back.
> > >
> > > You state about the game dying soon yet Halo MCC has low numbers when compared to bigger shooters. If people truly wanted that experience it would be far more populated.
> >
> > You do realize that Halo 3 is like a 15 year old game?
> >
> > Halo ce is 20 years old. The fact people are still playing them proves they are superior games.
> >
> > Id bet good money that in 10 years more will be playing Halo 3 still than infinite, unless drastic changes are made.
>
> This counter argument is bizarre. Are they trying to make a game in 2021 or not? Because last time I checked Halo has an issue bringing in new people. You talk about how the game is going to die yet ignore the majority hate the slow gameplay of classic.

If the majority of people hated the slow gameplay of classic Halo, then the MCC PC release wouldn’t have done as well as it did in both ratings and player counts.

> 2535423661615819;9:
> > 2533274792737987;8:
> > > 2535423661615819;5:
> > > > 2533274792737987;3:
> > > >
> >
> > This counter argument is bizarre. Are they trying to make a game in 2021 or not? Because last time I checked Halo has an issue bringing in new people. You talk about how the game is going to die yet ignore the majority hate the slow gameplay of classic.
>
> New people that will just leave for another new shiny game in about 3-6 months. Which is my point.
>
> Also, the majority doesnt hate slow gameplay lol. maybe the majority who are just looking for a new game to play for a while. Not actual Halo fans buddy

The majority of gamers complain about past Halo games slow gameplay all the time. Like what do you even mean? Those are the people who make your majority and keep the game populated. You are out of touch buddy.

> 2614366390849210;10:
> > 2535423661615819;7:
> > > 2614366390849210;6:
> > >
>
> If your only issue with Infinite is you think the gameplay is too fast compared to the original trilogy, you should count your lucky stripes after we had to suffer through the abominations of “Halo gameplay” that Reach and H4 gave us.
>
> (I still played the crap out of both Reach and H4 because even a bad Halo game is great and shoulders over misty other “great” game series out their imo).

Reach was a great game. Also the speed is only a fraction of the problem I have. I have went into great detail in one of the posts above.

The biggest issue really is how all of the weapons are too strong and how versatile they are. All of the quirks have been buffed out. The weapons have less risk and are less specialized. They are more normalized across the board just like modern fps where you have 20 guns that are all effectively the same with minor differences.

> 2535423661615819;1:
> I made a post about this about a year ago you can find it here Please the classic fans first and the rest follow. | Halo Infinite | Forums | Halo - Official Site (halowaypoint.com)
>
> Now that Ive played Infinite I can see that they are making the exact mistake I was pretty confident they would make. This is CRUCIAL****You cannot please Halo purists with a Halo game that is not Classic… Period… You changed the art style back for us, but have made the gameplay even less like Halo. **We dont like Halo 4 and 5 because they are not Classic Halo games. Halo Infinite is even less like Halo than 4 and 5 are…**You cannot make Halo a better version of Call of Duty or Rainbow six or Valorant or any other modern FPS on the market. There are so many things these games do better in that genre that cannot be done in Halo without making a game that isnt Halo. Cod/Siege/Valorant players who are all hyped for Infinite will not stick around for long. They will realize that the game theyve come from is a better version of the style of game they like to play and will just go back. That leaves the Halo 4 and 5 fans and 343 supporters who many have already said they dont like the art style, and want thrusters back etc…
>
> Trying to please everyone will not work out. This game will be huge on release… Give it a few months and it will be in the same boat as 4 and 5 with probably even less players.
>
> **Stop trying to appeal to the masses. Stop trying to be the biggest game on the block.**Make a proper classic Halo game, that true Halo purists will love and play forever and the rest will follow. Otherwise they will continue to just hop from trend to trend. From big game release to the next. From what Ive played, Infinite is not worthy of being called a Halo game.

Yours is a very Solid point I myself as a classic combat evolved Halo Fan can get in touch with it, but i also loved halo reach, yet it begs the question. How do you modernize the game and improve it while retaining its uniqueness and not falling in the categories you just described?
Cause otherwise the improvement of the franchise would be only graphical and a few new guns which would be sad really and probable have the same effect in player base you describe.

> 2535410766963836;11:
> > 2533274792737987;8:
> > > 2535423661615819;5:
> > > > 2533274792737987;3:
> > > > I disagree. This catches that lightning in the bottle that classic Halo had and modernizes it. This feels like Halo. All of my friends who hated Halo 4 and 5 loved this. They were Halo 2 and 3 purists and competed at a high level during comps.
> > > >
> > > > The broad group of classic Halo fans are divided too. Being a classic fan doesn’t by default make you not appreciate and love Infinite. If you love classic Halo and only pure classic Halo you still have Halo MCC. The majority doesn’t want that back.
> > > >
> > > > You state about the game dying soon yet Halo MCC has low numbers when compared to bigger shooters. If people truly wanted that experience it would be far more populated.
> > >
> > > You do realize that Halo 3 is like a 15 year old game?
> > >
> > > Halo ce is 20 years old. The fact people are still playing them proves they are superior games.
> > >
> > > Id bet good money that in 10 years more will be playing Halo 3 still than infinite, unless drastic changes are made.
> >
> > This counter argument is bizarre. Are they trying to make a game in 2021 or not? Because last time I checked Halo has an issue bringing in new people. You talk about how the game is going to die yet ignore the majority hate the slow gameplay of classic.
>
> If the majority of people hated the slow gameplay of classic Halo, then the MCC PC release wouldn’t have done as well as it did in both ratings and player counts.

Exactly my point. The concurrent players show the lack of this. Initially releases only mean so much.

> 2535423661615819;4:
> > 2533274851347531;2:
> > Im not sure we played the same preview. Iv been a halo fan since CE. I remember playing halo 2 on xbox live before xbox live was a thing everyone had. You dont outline what your issue is other than its not classic halo. But i feel your forgetting that halo 3 wasnt classic halo when we started from halo 2.
> >
> > Halo 3 was slower, it added equipment that changed the very foundation of how gun fights worked. Yet now its considered one of the best halo games ever (even if believe 2 was better)
> >
> > My point is you can add to halo without it being a cod clone. They have dropped most the things i jad issues with from halo 4 and 5. As a classic halo player that still plays mcc weekly, i am happy woth the direction the game seems to be going.
> >
> > Im not a fan of the lack of spartan collision or friendly fire but outside of that and the slightly cluncky feel the controls have i really enjoyed my time with infinite.
> >
> > Your entirely entitled to your opinion, and lucky for you they have a way to play classic halo right now via the mcc. However i am excited for infinite and to see what other supprises are still in store for us.
>
> I outlined my issues very clearly and distinctly of every single mechanic that has been altered in the game to be more like a “cod” type of game.
>
> Mods locked the thread.
>
> Here is my post explaining this in better detail
>
> 1. Weapons too OP. (All of the weapons are op and have no weakness and or quirks to them.) They kill too fast and they have been normalized to fulfill more broad roles. Examples such as Shotgun has more range and is now automatic. AR has more killing range and is more lethal in general. Plasma weapons travel faster and have a “reload” function now. Making them like regular guns.
>
> 2. BR has more depth than all other mid range non power weapons. The BR is magic and I cant even explain it with words. Yet the BR is barely in the game and now must compete with Commando and AR which are very simple weapons in comparison. There is a reason why every hardcore Halo player loves the BR and thats because it is an incredibly designed weapon that works so well for Halo.
>
> 3. Maps have no depth in terms of Angles and Movement. This one is hard to explain, but compare maps like Guardian, Lockout and Construct to the maps in Infinite weve seen. These maps all have much more depth. many more angles, power positions and routes between them. The maps are more like COD maps now, very simple.
>
> 4. Too fast movement. (Halo at its core is strategy fps. not Twitch fps.)
>
> 5. Range is different. Range has been normalized at mid. Most encounters are mid range because of design (Like Cod) so Melee and cqb now take a back seat.
> You will notice there are no strict cqb weapons in infinite and the close range weapons that are in game have also some type of mid range capability. The strategy element of weapons has been significantly reduced.
>
> 6. The Golden triangle, Guns/Melee/Grenades are no longer in balance. Melee and Grenades have been reduced due to the range and overall effectiveness of the guns.
>
> 7. Hit markers. This is a way bigger deal than it seems. Fighting at mid to long range without hit markers is way different than with them. Hit markers give away too much information about damage and change the strategy of the players. In Halo 3 a lot of times you dont know exactly how close an enemy is to dying and exactly how many bursts it will take from a BR to kill them. So it makes decision making much more cautious. This gives combat much more depth.
>
> Overall, Halo Infinite for these reasons feels like a traditional modern shooter and does not feel like Halo. All of the quirks have been rubbed out, the gameplay has been ironed down and molded into a very simple, aiming based, modern shooter. The strategical elements of the game have been reduced in favor for more speed and mechanical skill potential.

I disagree with pretty much all your points. For starters the speed is correct for halo. You say classic halo but you mean halo 3 (the slowest of the orginal 3).

Weapons being too op is just a weird complaint when you actually mean it has decreased time to kill. Again when compared the halo 2 this isnt that different.

The br is still the amazing gun its always been but i enjoyed getting to play matches where tbe br wasnt there. It give the sandbox room the breath and encourages you to try more weapons.

The close range battles are 100% still in the game as are weapons like tbe hammer and sword which pregty much mutes that argument.

As the the grandes not being a thing, its lretty much the only way people died to the bots… and again the throw was more of a lob similar to halo 2.

The maps have literally no issues, a simple map isnt a problem. Look at beaver creek, blood gulch and isolation for example. All are they simple maps. The 3 lane map design used is not only standard for most games but it found in classic halo too. It makes players able to find the map and get on with the playing part rather than wondering around lost. It makes sense those maps would be used for a short preview and im sure there will be more “classic” maps in the final release.

Hit markers is the only point you made where i can kinda see what your trying to say. That being said, a skilled classic halo player wouldnt need hitmarkers and if thats one of the few sacrifices we have to make to update a 20 year old franchise, im okay with that. It only really effects grenade throws in regards to feed back as with all other halo games you got a sheild flash that served the same purpose as hit markers.

That being said, your feedback is valid and i really when infinite launches you find that some of the things you dislike have been tweeked and fixed to point youl find enjoyment. But honestly it sounds like you want halo 3 with next gen visuals and honestly that game just wouldnt survive in 2021

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts or gatekeep.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274792737987;12:
> > 2535423661615819;9:
> > > 2533274792737987;8:
> > > > 2535423661615819;5:
> > > > > 2533274792737987;3:
> > > > >
> > >
> > > This counter argument is bizarre. Are they trying to make a game in 2021 or not? Because last time I checked Halo has an issue bringing in new people. You talk about how the game is going to die yet ignore the majority hate the slow gameplay of classic.
> >
> > New people that will just leave for another new shiny game in about 3-6 months. Which is my point.
> >
> > Also, the majority doesnt hate slow gameplay lol. maybe the majority who are just looking for a new game to play for a while. Not actual Halo fans buddy
>
> The majority of gamers complain about past Halo games slow gameplay all the time. Like what do you even mean? Those are the people who make your majority and keep the game populated. You are out of touch buddy.

These are not real Halo fans though.

Considering this game is supposed to be a Halo game, their opinions do not matter. I dont think you are aware of the argument Im making

> 2535423661615819;17:
> > 2533274792737987;12:
> > > 2535423661615819;9:
> > > > 2533274792737987;8:
> > > > > 2535423661615819;5:
> > > > > > 2533274792737987;3:
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > This counter argument is bizarre. Are they trying to make a game in 2021 or not? Because last time I checked Halo has an issue bringing in new people. You talk about how the game is going to die yet ignore the majority hate the slow gameplay of classic.
> > >
> > > New people that will just leave for another new shiny game in about 3-6 months. Which is my point.
> > >
> > > Also, the majority doesnt hate slow gameplay lol. maybe the majority who are just looking for a new game to play for a while. Not actual Halo fans buddy
> >
> > The majority of gamers complain about past Halo games slow gameplay all the time. Like what do you even mean? Those are the people who make your majority and keep the game populated. You are out of touch buddy.

Here we go with “not real Halo fans”. The majority that will keep the game active previously were not “real Halo fans”.

> 2535423661615819;13:
> > 2614366390849210;10:
> > > 2535423661615819;7:
> > > > 2614366390849210;6:
> > > >
> >
> > If your only issue with Infinite is you think the gameplay is too fast compared to the original trilogy, you should count your lucky stripes after we had to suffer through the abominations of “Halo gameplay” that Reach and H4 gave us.
> >
> > (I still played the crap out of both Reach and H4 because even a bad Halo game is great and shoulders over misty other “great” game series out their imo).
>
> Reach was a great game. Also the speed is only a fraction of the problem I have. I have went into great detail in one of the posts above.
>
> The biggest issue really is how all of the weapons are too strong and how versatile they are. All of the quirks have been buffed out. The weapons have less risk and are less specialized. They are more normalized across the board just like modern fps where you have 20 guns that are all effectively the same with minor differences.

“Reach was a great game”.

I’m done here.

> 2535406972669048;14:
> > 2535423661615819;1:
> >
>
> Yours is a very Solid point I myself as a classic combat evolved Halo Fan can get in touch with it, but i also loved halo reach, yet it begs the question. How do you modernize the game and improve it while retaining its uniqueness and not falling in the categories you just described?
> Cause otherwise the improvement of the franchise would be only graphical and a few new guns which would be sad really and probable have the same effect in player base you describe.

What is modernize??? Halo doesnt need to be modernized. The gameplay was already perfected with Halo 3.

With how bad 4 and 5 turned out and so long since Halo 3, It would be more than enough to just release a classic Halo game with better graphics and more content. You dont really have to change the wheel here.

If you want to add something cool, then add gore and dismemberment.

Ive been saying for years that Halo with gore would be incredible. Imagine shooting someone in the face with a sniper and their visor pops off and blood spills out. That would be awesome