Guys imagine a parent telling their kid what to do and the kid disagreeing. The parent was born in a time where things were a certain way but they have to accept that a new generation comes with new rules and new standards and they have to accept that the child will naturally grow with their generation and new environment.
We all love Halo, right? besides from the story aspect, what we love about the game is the memories we’ve made on it together over the years.
But like I said at the end of the day, we all love this game and with that being said we have to learn how to let go of certain things and how to embrace and learn to work with new things. We can get what you guys the best Halo game and there will still be a backlash because to get what you guys consider a good Halo game is to either completely lean towards to Classical Halo style and go back in the past or stick with the future ideas and new additions to Halo that started during Halo Reach to Halo 5.
We need o stop nitpicking and think about both sides of the spectrum and here is my opinion. Sprint at this point will stick in Halo and that is one of the elements we have to just accept. Times are different and Halo Reach was one of the best Halo games and sprint is normal and should be able to be done by a Spartan. It doesn’t make sense to slow everyone down. I can’t even imagine. We need to stop trying to lean to one side and mix good aspects that even if you don’t like can work.
This is entirely wrong. Classic halo hasn’t truly been around since Halo 3, and has continually grown throughout. Ever since halo reach, which introduced armor abilities that messed up classic gameplay, it’s been in a decline. Halo Reach sold 3 million fewer copies than halo 3, Halo 4 sold about the same, but was poorly received, and its sequel game (Halo 5: Guardians), lost almost half its population base; 5 million copies sold vs. 9 million with Halo 4.
The trend we see, based on the numbers we have access to, is that the new halo games, ever since reach, with all the new mechanics and storylines, etc. have been attached to declining games. The classic halo gameplay, attached to halos 1, 2, 3, and ODST, have had an upwards spiral in terms of sales growth. Halo 3: ODST, a spin off title (although it initially only sold around 6.3 million) was beloved enough (and btw, I don’t even like ODST as a game in and of itself) that the next spin off title, Halo reach, sold 3 million units more than it did.
Classic Halo is something millions of people want to see return. And the people that remain, roughly 5 million, are heavily split on the new gameplay elements. I, for one, like spartan abilities, but it has been heavily criticized by many in the community and I recognize that this is a problem for franchise growth. That will not bode well for Halo Infinite’s sales, and I believe, based on the numbers so far, that bringing back the classic gameplay elements would be a huge benefit in the marketing for 343 industries. There is no evidence to suggest that classic gameplay is hurting the franchise growth, quite the opposite.
> 2533274877785117;2:
> This is entirely wrong. Classic halo hasn’t truly been around since Halo 3, and has continually grown throughout. Ever since halo reach, which introduced armor abilities that messed up classic gameplay, it’s been in a decline. Halo Reach sold 3 million fewer copies than halo 3, Halo 4 should about the same, but was poorly received, and its sequel game (Halo 5: Guardians), lost almost half its population base; 5 million copies sold.
>
> The trend we see, based on the numbers we have access to, is that the new halo games, ever since reach, with all the new mechanics and storylines, etc. have been attached to declining games. The classic halo gameplay, attached to halos 1, 2, 3, and ODST, have had an upwards spiral in terms of sales growth. Halo 3: ODST, a spin off title (although it initially only sold around 6.3 million) was beloved enough (and btw, I don’t even like ODST as a game in and of itself) that the next spin off title, Halo reach, sold 3 million units more than it did.
>
> Classic Halo is something millions of people want to see return. And the people that remain, roughly 5 million, are heavily split on the new gameplay elements. I, for one, like spartan abilities, but it has been heavily criticized by many in the community and I recognize that this is a problem for franchise growth. That will not bode well for Halo Infinite’s sales, and I believe, based on the numbers so far, that bringing back the classic gameplay elements would be a huge benefit in the marketing for 343 industries. There is no evidence to suggest that classic gameplay is hurting the franchise growth, quite the opposite.
>
> Major source for sales numbers: http://www.vgchartz.com/article/87043/halo-a-sales-history/
Just FYI, Halo 5 had sold 5 million copies three months after release. Suffice to say, more copies have almost certainly been sold since then, but we don’t know how much. We’re probably not looking at anything less than 6 million, or anything more than 9 million, but it’s all just total guesswork.
OP - You should learn the difference between change and innovation / improvement before opening a clickbait Thread like this.
Other than that, you should stop to generalize people. The community doesn’t have to accept everything with the excuse of changing things for the sake of change. And no, nobody has to accept anything. (Whether it’s about gameplay, Art style, lore etc.) - everyone is free to share their opinion on every topic and in the end it’s up to the developer to analyze all the feedback and make compromises (or not). You seem to have a problem with the fact that people criticize certain things you personally enjoy. And I’m not telling you to stop enjoying these things (whatever they are), but other people also have the right to question these decisions. Let everyone share their opinions and improve the franchise all together, instead of accepting everything like mindless robots.
Game mechanics and technology do not grow or change in a fixed, linear fashion. Mechanics and certain types of design don’t just recede because they are ‘old’.
New styles may appear and grow and older ones may wane, but that doesn’t preclude said older styles from finding success. 2D games didn’t just vanish entirely because 3D games came into existence and that is a much more drastic leap than anything we’ve seen from Halo games from Reach onward. Evolution isn’t a linear path and the changes we’ve seen in post Reach Halo are not an unambiguous ‘next step,’ it is just change and change can come with both good and bad.
People make it sound like the changes in Halo Reach, 4, or 5 are the only possible ways the franchise could evolve and its just nonsense. Disagreeing with the direction the franchise has taken is not the same as rejecting all change, nor is advocating for classic Halo the same as advocating for the complete “”"“regression”"""" of the franchise in all aspects. If Halo had been in the middle of a slow decline it would be one thing to say it needed a more radical change, but it wasn’t. The Halo franchise was at its peak with Halo 3 and it is the Halo game that innovated/altered core gameplay the least from the game preceding it and no subsequent Halo game has reached those same heights.
All the flashy the new mechanics and “innovations” have failed to compete with what was essentially ‘Halo 2.5’ and its vast suite of features that supported relatively unchanged gameplay.
There’s a difference between change by adding new mechanics to the game and change by changing core mechanics.
We can define Halo’s gameplay by it’s “golden triangle” (I believe that’s what it’s called.) Players can fight primarily by using guns, grenades, and melee attacks. There are also other factors, such as vehicles. In Halo 2, they added vehicle hijacking. This didn’t change any of the fundamentals of the game, it just added a cool new feature. The same thing applies to assassination animations starting in Halo Reach. A hit to the back was always a guaranteed kill in Halo, but now with Reach you could watch a cool, satisfying animation when you did it. Also, for players who want it done as quickly as possible, they can turn these animations off.
However, not all additions simply add more to the game. Some change the game at its core, even if they seem like minor changes. For example, the one we all know and love: Sprint (bear with me here, please.) It seems like a regular speed boost, but in actuality it forces players to make a decision: Do you want to move at max speed, or have your weapon ready? This issue becomes even more noticeable when you consider how maps are stretched out to compensate for sprint and keep the pace about the same as in classic. As demonstrated by this gif, regular movement in Halo 3 is faster than sprinting in Halo 5 because of the map design. Most importantly, every player in Halo 3 can move as fast as possible without lowering their weapon and leaving themselves vulnerable.
Of course, some would say that movement in classic Halo games is a little too slow for their liking, and I agree. I think Halo would be more enjoyable if we traded sprint for a slight increase in base movement speed. I remember Halo 3 having an MLG playlist with faster movement, and it was pretty fun!
Additionally, I don’t believe that the Halo community is nitpicking anything. Truthfully, the Halo community is pretty mature and civil, especially compared to other gaming communities. We shouldn’t “complain about complaining” because we all have valid opinions to bring to the table; we should not try to silence each other for having different mindsets.
Personally, I’m of a split opinion on this subject. It really depends on the feature and what it contributes to the existing Halo formula. If we’re just copying features and mechanics from more successful games without actually thinking of how they mesh with the Core Halo Experience ™ then the result is usually not great. Halo 4, while fun, wasn’t a good version of Halo multiplayer.
Halo 5, on the other hand, definitely was. Still has a whole lot of room for improvement (the maps were entirely forgettable and not at all diverse, and there was a far too limited selection of gametypes and playlists at launch), but all in all it was IMO a return to form of Halo multiplayer after Reach and 4’s disappointments.
I kinda trust 343i with the multiplayer, seeing as they were quoted to say that they aren’t planning to reinvent the wheel again on that front. Meaning, Infinite’s multiplayer should be an evolution of Halo 5 rather than another dramatic reimagining the like of which has been plaguing us since Halo 3.
On the Campaign front, though… Don’t really know what to expect. Hopefully they’ll manage to write themselves out of the corner gracefully, despite the odds.
Classic Halo clearly needs to come back in some capacity. The numbers and population is the proof. We didn’t even get permanent classic Halo playlists, which could have kept some old halo fans around. They completely ignored the old halo fans and made their main focus on the new generation of COD fans. Halo 4 could have been a great sequel to 3 but the Cod gimmicks destroyed the core of Halo and began the downfall of Halo.
> 2533274846978810;10:
> Seems like OP came to trade some punches
>
> Personally, I’m of a split opinion on this subject. It really depends on the feature and what it contributes to the existing Halo formula. If we’re just copying features and mechanics from more successful games without actually thinking of how they mesh with the Core Halo Experience ™ then the result is usually not great. Halo 4, while fun, wasn’t a good version of Halo multiplayer.
>
> Halo 5, on the other hand, definitely was. Still has a whole lot of room for improvement (the maps were entirely forgettable and not at all diverse, and there was a far too limited selection of gametypes and playlists at launch), but all in all it was IMO a return to form of Halo multiplayer after Reach and 4’s disappointments.
>
> I kinda trust 343i with the multiplayer, seeing as they were quoted to say that they aren’t planning to reinvent the wheel again on that front. Meaning, Infinite’s multiplayer should be an evolution of Halo 5 rather than another dramatic reimagining the like of which has been plaguing us since Halo 3.
>
> On the Campaign front, though… Don’t really know what to expect. Hopefully they’ll manage to write themselves out of the corner gracefully, despite the odds.
This pretty much takes the words right out of my mouth. In terms of overall creativity and generating unique combat encounters, 343i has some work to do with multiplayer map design. But overall 343i has more than proven they can provide a fantastic multiplayer experience with Halo 5. They just need to get back to Halo’s roots solely in terms of what makes the storytelling and the campaign great in Halo. That’s not to say they should at all just retell us a classic Halo story over again, but on many fronts they will need to step up their game in terms of the campaign.
If they want to bring back classic or even mixed art? Sure! - If they want to bring back the classic-themes and music? Cool! - If they want to bring back classic armor designs? Fine! - But projectile weapons, smaller maps, or (god forbid) classic movement mechanics? Absolutely not!Purely from the perspective of gameplay mechanics, I’m definitely with you on the front leaning towards an enhanced version of Halo 5 to carry us on into the future of the franchise versus reverting all the way back to necro a Halo experience from over a decade ago… (May classic Halo R.I.P.)
This is not to throw shade on Halo 3- Halo 3 was good in its time, and did a lot of things right- but all classic mechanics have to offer us now is a regurgitation of all of Halo 3’s draw backs in nothing more than a graphical overhaul from this older experience. If they took the worst route imagine with H3A Infinite it would definitely become the first Halo game that I’d ever completely pass on, and (this is coming from a lifelong fan of Halo since literally the very beginning in 2001) I’d probably depart the franchise for forever.
I don’t want Halo: Infinite to have the same gameplay as, say, Halo 3. However, I do not want it to start feeling like other current military shooters, as Halo 5 started to feel a little. What I want is for Halo: Infinite to feel like an evolution of classic Halo gameplay.
Halo was always a run-and-gun game. Some players hate Sprint because it eliminates this element. Other plays are so accustomed to Sprint that they’d be turned off it were removed. The simple solution here is to take Halo’s tradition run-and-gun gameplay without Sprint and just increase its base movement speed as well as field-of-view, and we have a “modern Halo” game as opposed to a Halo-other-shooter-hybrid. - Some players don’t like Clamber for this same reason. Easy; refer to the Halo 1, 2, 3 and Reach ladder-climbing. The weapon is never lowered. Keep Clamber in Infinite, but lower the Clamber height slightly and keep the weapons raised. Problem solved. - Dual-wielding is sorely missed by most Halo fans, but disliked by some of the most competitive. Bring back dual-wielding, but provide certain competitive matchmaking playlists in which it is deactivated. It should be an option for enabling/disabling in custom games.Honestly, it’s so easy to keep Halo Halo while still progressing its gameplay. What 343i need to do isn’t simply to return to classic gameplay, but to refer to it and increase elements of it rather than make modifications to it. (Push things forward rather than sideways.) If they do that then I’m sure we’d end up with a very fluid, solid, fun Halo game. It’s really not that difficult.
People think they want “Classic Halo”, but they will get bored if they keep playing the same thing day in and day out. This is Halo’s next step. This is combat evolved.
> 2533274879837198;1:
> Guys imagine a parent telling their kid what to do and the kid disagreeing. The parent was born in a time where things were a certain way but they have to accept that a new generation comes with new rules and new standards and they have to accept that the child will naturally grow with their generation and new environment.
>
> We all love Halo, right? besides from the story aspect, what we love about the game is the memories we’ve made on it together over the years.
> But like I said at the end of the day, we all love this game and with that being said we have to learn how to let go of certain things and how to embrace and learn to work with new things. We can get what you guys the best Halo game and there will still be a backlash because to get what you guys consider a good Halo game is to either completely lean towards to Classical Halo style and go back in the past or stick with the future ideas and new additions to Halo that started during Halo Reach to Halo 5.
>
> We need o stop nitpicking and think about both sides of the spectrum and here is my opinion. Sprint at this point will stick in Halo and that is one of the elements we have to just accept. Times are different and Halo Reach was one of the best Halo games and sprint is normal and should be able to be done by a Spartan. It doesn’t make sense to slow everyone down. I can’t even imagine. We need to stop trying to lean to one side and mix good aspects that even if you don’t like can work.
Well I guess I wasn’t the only one who watched Favyn’s video this morning. Still, I don’t agree with this. Halo 3 gameplay still holds up extremely well and it proved to be the highest point the franchise ever saw. Lots of things can be reversed.
When Disney acquired Star Wars, they stayed away from the Prequels until just now. 343 can do the same with Halo, go back in time to the Covenant War as a means to justify returning to vanilla Halo.
Sprint and ADS simply don’t belong in Halo. Sprint only exists to allow you to traverse the terrain easier, creating gameplay that is based on reaction time. ADS exists to make your attacks more accurate, at the cost of being slower and not being able to maintain awareness around yourself. So this too makes ADS an additional component to making reaction times so important: Being able to quickly aim at an enemy and land hard hitting shots before your opponent does. Sound similar to the basis for 2 other very big AAA shooters you know of?
My point is this: Classic Halo is about being able to duel with the enemy with no external constraints other than power weapons and map knowledge. That’s it. Out maneuvering the enemy and knowing how to engage with the sandbox elements. Not running around and having to identify and shoot them ADS style before they do so you can get the kill. If you like this, then I suggest you go to Killzone. Wait, I’m mistaken, it’s a DEAD FRANCHISE now.
To me it’s kind of simple,halo was at its peak of popularity and gameplay with the classic gameplay imo. Since the changes starting with reach,each game since has been less and less popular with the fanbase.So switch it back to classic gameplay and see how that affects the playerbase and the fps scene
Well the thing is classic halo’s more easier to balance. You don’t have to balance the map for the faster movement speeds and ability to easily climb to areas of the map that normally would have forced you to go to a grav-lift or if you are a skilled player crouch jump/boost jump. 343 doesn’t have to elongate the map which reduces the poly-count to be used elsewhere. Funny enough players would move faster without sprint due to higher base movement speed and normal sized maps. Another benefit is the Time To Kill would change for the better so maps can have choke points. Choke points bring the need for map control and team coordination to hold or capture those areas of the map while power weapons being spread out forces teams to move around else the enemy team gets more power weapons. Each map can have different gameplay styles like high ground is a asymmetric assault the beaches map while rats nest is a race track map with linear combat in the middle. The return of small maps like Warlock, Guardian, and Turf.
The simple mechanics of classic halo makes it easier to change the game by adding in new sandbox elements rather than can’t edit by base player abilities (unless you mod it out). Map hazards, mobile objective points (Elephant), man cannons, teleporters, vehicles become more important/a threat, and equipment can be a one time escape which could be worked around by skilled players (instead of infinite escapes with advance movement that require higher bullet magnetism, no area of the map has less than 3 line of sight, and map scale changes).
The classic halo can exist while also being able to innovated. H2A added new map changing elements that changed maps like Ascension remake added that shield in the array or the Sanctuary remake that you can activate waterfalls to block line of sight. Eldewrito added new one time use must pickup from the sandbox armor abilities like faster melee, reflect melee damage, and vehicle camo. SPv3 added warthogs healing your team maps (two uses from my memory), new weapons that the shredder, particle carbine, and hunter fuel rod cannon, also added different versions of the plasma pistol with slightly different functions and trade offs, blind-wolves, and even the sparrowhawk. Yes I know SPv3 had sprint but it had a cooldown/short use and is also located in the sandbox rather than a base player ability.
Though that would require 343 to focus on innovating both the map design or sandbox mechanics as past classic halos. Rather than the focus on innovating the base player abilities. But if enhance mobility has to stay then 343 has to throw away halo map design and AI behavior since currently Halo is suffering like COD as a hybrid of two game mechanics. The old map design philosophy is holding back the game. Crysis and Titainfall are really the only games with multiplayer maps that work with advance mobility. I would also look at Destiny and COD for what not to do for map design. Halo 5’s boss hunter may have worked in classic style but Halo 5 you do circles around it. You have to have something with enhance mobility to compare to your spartan so Elites and or Brutes must have enhance mobility and bringing back shielded drones and skirmishers. Honestly I don’t see the need for shield jackals since you can close the gap, spartan charge them, and or group pound them with such ease. Plus grunts still act as the cannon fodder, does the same as jackals but also operates turrets and vehicles. Most vehicles are not really needed anymore since its too easy to destroy them, hijack them, or plant a grenade on them. This should allow more time and resources on adding new enemies or useful enemy vehicles. But that is what I can see that is left of the classic halo in modern halo so, you willing to “innovate” by removing those functions from future halos.
The first part is really nothing more than a play on words but it gives an image of what you could be aiming at.
Similar play on words would be like saying “seeing new Halo games is like seeing once close friend falling and becoming a different, perhaps worse person”. It gives an image, but its not really based on anything.
And given we are on Halo forum we all like Halo to certain degree but how we define Halo varies as does the visions behind different Halo products varies. Some people like certain products, others like other Halo products. The brand alltogether can be intriguing but that doesnt necessarily mean all visualizations of it are good in the eyes of different people.
Also, we are discussing more about a franchise or a brand rather than a single game when talking about Halo overall and its too early to say much from infinite just yet.
And i think we dont really need to learn to let go or embrace anything really. Every aspect is just a design choice and people dislike, like or think neutrally of certain aspects. There is no one way to evolve games, there are just changes which can be good, bad or neutral. Some aspects fit certain games and some dont depending on the game and the viewer.
And obviously people try to think from various perspectives before coming in to a conclusion and even after that the conclusion can change when time passes on.
And in this universe of basically endless possibilities nothing really is a certainty, only more likely. So not even such thing as sprint as an aspect in Halo is a certainty. Its basically just an animation that hinders the player when it comes to the basics.
And SPARTANs definitely can run but before they ran and could hold their gun up so they were always ready for combat unlike in newer installments. The basic movement speed was higher before allowing for better flowing gameplay. All might not agree with basic core movement mechanics but its just a thing that some players like myself prefer, at least in a franchise like Halo.
Changes are always going to be made it’s called development. I think what is really splitting the community and causing a drop in numbers is casual v’s competitive. Halo 5 was far too lacking in fun, casual BTB maps at launch and as I have said many, many times compared to Halo 4 the overall package was well short in terms of content. On top of that we had plastic, lego maps that really should not have been allowed in game.
I hardly play Halo 5 MM only Warzone (re-branded Spartan Ops) and even that not for months. I just put a lot of the chiefs graphical changes down to increased power in the console. Halo 5 looked too much like power rangers and who ever asked for 4 player co-op campaign? Halo 4 Art Style will do me as will the map styles.
Infinite needs to be ground breaking and hopefully tie-in with TV series with new missions following on like Spartan Ops each week
Classic gameplay doesn’t need to evolve, they’ve been trying to do that for 3 games and it’s been going downhill population wise. Classic isn’t bad, it’s Halo, and it dominated. Gameplay was great, there are other things in a title that can grow a game besides adapting various gameplay things present in other popular/good games. Think DOOM 2016, or Counter Strike.
Better Forge or Full Map editor, Campaign map creator, Custom Game Browser (which Halo 5 got too late imo), Better Campaign story, Graphic improvements, or things like Cosmetics, Updates, Events.
> 2533274879837198;1:
> Guys imagine a parent telling their kid what to do and the kid disagreeing. The parent was born in a time where things were a certain way but they have to accept that a new generation comes with new rules and new standards and they have to accept that the child will naturally grow with their generation and new environment. **-- Smart parents understand this and do their best to help provide basic guidance. Parents “telling their kid what to do and the kid disagreeing” is only bad or good depending on the situation. The parents’ parents were also born in a time where things were a certain way… such is life and most parents understand that, or at least the good ones do. It’s not about accepting that the child will grow naturally… it’s about how they grow and integrate into it in a healthy way. --**We all love Halo, right? besides from the story aspect, what we love about the game is the memories we’ve made on it together over the years.
> But like I said at the end of the day, we all love this game and with that being said we have to learn how to let go of certain things and how to embrace and learn to work with new things. We can get what you guys the best Halo game and there will still be a backlash because to get what you guys consider a good Halo game is to either completely lean towards to Classical Halo style and go back in the past or stick with the future ideas and new additions to Halo that started during Halo Reach to Halo 5. **-- We all love Halo I can agree with. The rest… NO. There will always be backlash, you can’t please everyone and it’s been said hundreds of times on these forums. NOBODY wants to “go back in the past”. Classic Halo fans want just as much newness to the future games as anyone else does. But “future ideas and new additions to Halo”… have been little more than an amalgamation of every other mechanic from every other game on the market, thrown at it in what almost looks like a “let’s see if this sticks fashion”. That doesn’t sound like new ideas to me. It’s very possible to retain some of the old and combine it with new, as opposed to inundate it with new and overcomplicate it for the sake of change. --**We need o stop nitpicking and think about both sides of the spectrum and here is my opinion. Sprint at this point will stick in Halo and that is one of the elements we have to just accept. Times are different and Halo Reach was one of the best Halo games and sprint is normal and should be able to be done by a Spartan. It doesn’t make sense to slow everyone down. I can’t even imagine. We need to stop trying to lean to one side and mix good aspects that even if you don’t like can work. – Whether or not sprint will stick in Halo is TBD. I can almost hear my parents saying something like “It doesn’t even make sense to slow everyone down. I can’t even imagine.” Seems to me that those who don’t want to let go of sprint may be thinking more like the parents than the kids. ‘Why fix it if it ain’t broke!?’ , ‘Why change it now… it’s worked this way for years!?’… Hmmm…
