With the adding of halo 3 on xboxlive for free, maybe we shouldn’t be yelling the same thing, classic settings or nothing. They know what we want, and I think 343i were probably the ones that pushed for halo 3 to be free. At this point, classic halo at most is going to be a Playlist restricted thing. Microsoft will simply not allow 243 to desighn a game for us? The ten percent of people who buy it, and will buy it no madder what, to at least five it a try. At this point, the best we can do is reach something that both casuals who want sprint etc. because their new or didn’t play many games, and us hardcore guys who break the game down bit by bit, and see down to the very base molocules of it, and compare it to previous games. We have to suggest things other than take out sprint, take out ordinances, take our loadouts. We need to look at what is salvageable, 343 can test it, and if by some magic they can force classic settings, great but they won’t be able too, so we provide advice on how we can get a game we can accept, and casuals can play.
No.
The last thing Microsoft wants is for its flagship franchise to die. And what’s the best way to keep fans? Give them what they want.
What we want is the traditional gameplay back. Yes, we want Halo to evolve with new gameplay. But not new MECHANICS, which is what Halo 4 gave us (and we see how well that turned out). The Halo community is HUGE. Instead of trying to bring in new players (by adding mechanics from other games) , 343/Microsoft should focus on the already established fanbase. It’ll work out better for them and for us in the long run.
When we want a completely different Halo, we’ll ask for it.
> No.
>
> The last thing Microsoft wants is for its flagship franchise to die. And what’s the best way to keep fans? Give them what they want.
>
> What we want is the traditional gameplay back. Yes, we want Halo to evolve with new gameplay. But not new MECHANICS, which is what Halo 4 gave us (and we see how well that turned out). The Halo community is HUGE. Instead of trying to bring in new players (by adding mechanics from other games) , 343/Microsoft should focus on the already established fanbase. It’ll work out better for them and for us in the long run.
>
> When we want a completely different Halo, we’ll ask for it.
WHAT HE SAID
> No.
>
> The last thing Microsoft wants is for its flagship franchise to die. And what’s the best way to keep fans? Give them what they want.
>
> What we want is the traditional gameplay back. Yes, we want Halo to evolve with new gameplay. But not new MECHANICS, which is what Halo 4 gave us (and we see how well that turned out). The Halo community is HUGE. Instead of trying to bring in new players (by adding mechanics from other games) , 343/Microsoft should focus on the already established fanbase. It’ll work out better for them and for us in the long run.
>
> When we want a completely different Halo, we’ll ask for it.
There’s no point in giving us what we demand if it’s done half-heartedly.
It’s like throwing money at a kid of yours just so you can keep him dependent on you.
It’d be more responsible to prepare him so he can manage money on his own.
> > No.
> >
> > The last thing Microsoft wants is for its flagship franchise to die. And what’s the best way to keep fans? Give them what they want.
> >
> > What we want is the traditional gameplay back. Yes, we want Halo to evolve with new gameplay. But not new MECHANICS, which is what Halo 4 gave us (and we see how well that turned out). The Halo community is HUGE. Instead of trying to bring in new players (by adding mechanics from other games) , 343/Microsoft should focus on the already established fanbase. It’ll work out better for them and for us in the long run.
> >
> > When we want a completely different Halo, we’ll ask for it.
>
> There’s no point in giving us what we demand if it’s done half-heartedly.
>
> It’s like throwing money at a kid of yours just so you can keep him dependent on you.
>
> It’d be more responsible to prepare him so he can manage money on his own.
Yeah, because the “parent” will do fine without the “kids”.
There’s no point for i343 to continue down their own “Halo path” if the only thing it does is push the original community away as well as fails to pull a new audience.
I don’t think it’d have been that much of a problem if Halo 4 had completely pushed the original community away but managed to replace that community with a new and big community that likes the new Halo. Sure, it’d been hard for the old community but from the developer’s view not a problem.
So, either i343 continues down their own path “whole-heartedly” and possibly drives Halo to the ground, which is what the trend is pointing at now. Or they go back to the “classic” gameplay and go from there to see what happens.
None of the paths guarantee success, but one of them do have a large community on it.
> The last thing Microsoft wants is for its flagship franchise to die. And what’s the best way to keep fans? Give them what they want.
You know what the best way to kill a franchise is? Make keeping fans your top priority. That in no way allows for growth, allows the franchise to counteract the inevitable entropy that comes from some people just loosing interest in the IP regardless of how well or poorly it’s maintained. It just set a mostly static form except what that social entropy whittles away. Soon you are not left with a vibrant and faithful reincarnation of the glory days, you have an insubstantial nub of a franchise that can only act as a sad parody of the better days. Maybe to the eyes of a die hard fan that would be enough but I doubt that the resultant population would make anyone at ease here.
Ie. it’s stagnation and no one who truly cares about Halo should wish such an sad, undignified death for Halo just to cater to their niche (even if it appears on a forum that “other people” want the same thing. I shouldn’t need to explain sample bias as well as all this.) Hell, if we wanted Halo to have an impact again, to be relevant again, crazy ambition is what we should all be calling for since only that can mark Halo out as a worthwhile franchise (that isn’t just giving a home to junkies who haven’t yet graduated from their 10 year old tap.)
> I don’t think it’d have been that much of a problem if Halo 4 had completely pushed the original community away but managed to replace that community with a new and big community that likes the new Halo. Sure, it’d been hard for the old community but from the developer’s view not a problem.
And we’ve certainly seen it happen in Halo before. Halo 1 was a campaign oriented game that gave the home party scene something to play that was a bit more involving than Mario Party. In terms of the interests and mentalities it wasn’t very comparable to what you see today. What came out of Halo 2, on the other hand, is because that game developed the serial online user that we now consider to be the “core” fan.
From the standpoint of community building though I don’t think that Halo 4’s main problem was that it was simply 343 going off track with both modern and classic interests. It certainly has elements of both in there, gameplay mechanics and balancing standards that taken by themselves would appeal to the matchmaking veteran (and not anyone else, ex. gunplay surrounding the BR/DMR) which contrast with those awful changes made give the contemporary gamer a surer foothold to appreciate the franchise from (ex. loadouts, jetpacks, and [oh the heresy] useful automatic weapons). And unlike certain things that are appreciable on a basic human level (Ex. the campaign writing since the story telling tradition is nearly as old as our species) what you have in these divergent multiplayer schemes is simply clashing conventions, and however you try to balance them out you will always have some element of inconsistency to alienate both user bases.
Moving forward then, 343 just needs more commitment (in one or the other direction, but as I would argue only moving to the modern fan allows the franchise to have a significant future) assuming that once they move beyond the conflict they can simply deliver a competent game.
I’m just hoping they only hire people that loved Halo this time around.
> > No.
> >
> > The last thing Microsoft wants is for its flagship franchise to die. And what’s the best way to keep fans? Give them what they want.
> >
> > What we want is the traditional gameplay back. Yes, we want Halo to evolve with new gameplay. But not new MECHANICS, which is what Halo 4 gave us (and we see how well that turned out). The Halo community is HUGE. Instead of trying to bring in new players (by adding mechanics from other games) , 343/Microsoft should focus on the already established fanbase. It’ll work out better for them and for us in the long run.
> >
> > When we want a completely different Halo, we’ll ask for it.
>
> There’s no point in giving us what we demand if it’s done half-heartedly.
Did I say I wanted it done half-heartedly? If the gameplay we want becomes 343’s top priority, it’ll be done with great care and enthusiasm.
343 has acknowledged their mistakes and know what the majority wants (which is traditional gameplay). They can’t simply ignore that.
> > The last thing Microsoft wants is for its flagship franchise to die. And what’s the best way to keep fans? Give them what they want.
>
> You know what the best way to kill a franchise is? Make keeping fans your top priority. That in no way allows for growth, allows the franchise to counteract the inevitable entropy that comes from some people just loosing interest in the IP regardless of how well or poorly it’s maintained. It just set a mostly static form except what that social entropy whittles away. Soon you are not left with a vibrant and faithful reincarnation of the glory days, you have an insubstantial nub of a franchise that can only act as a sad parody of the better days. Maybe to the eyes of a die hard fan that would be enough but I doubt that the resultant population would make anyone at ease here.
>
> Ie. it’s stagnation and no one who truly cares about Halo should wish such an sad, undignified death for Halo just to cater to their niche (even if it appears on a forum that “other people” want the same thing. I shouldn’t need to explain sample bias as well as all this.) Hell, if we wanted Halo to have an impact again, to be relevant again, crazy ambition is what we should all be calling for since only that can mark Halo out as a worthwhile franchise (that isn’t just giving a home to junkies who haven’t yet graduated from their 10 year old tap.)
This.
You can’t win over people with treats and by appealing to their nostalgia. You have to foster a relationship with them.
343i have been indirect in nearly all of their communications, even that apology message Frankie wrote a while ago.
Halo is in this state because there is a drift between the developer and the community.
> > The last thing Microsoft wants is for its flagship franchise to die. And what’s the best way to keep fans? Give them what they want.
>
> You know what the best way to kill a franchise is? Make keeping fans your top priority. That in no way allows for growth, allows the franchise to counteract the inevitable entropy that comes from some people just loosing interest in the IP regardless of how well or poorly it’s maintained. It just set a mostly static form except what that social entropy whittles away. Soon you are not left with a vibrant and faithful reincarnation of the glory days, you have an insubstantial nub of a franchise that can only act as a sad parody of the better days. Maybe to the eyes of a die hard fan that would be enough but I doubt that the resultant population would make anyone at ease here.
>
> Ie. it’s stagnation and no one who truly cares about Halo should wish such an sad, undignified death for Halo just to cater to their niche (even if it appears on a forum that “other people” want the same thing. I shouldn’t need to explain sample bias as well as all this.) Hell, if we wanted Halo to have an impact again, to be relevant again, crazy ambition is what we should all be calling for since only that can mark Halo out as a worthwhile franchise (that isn’t just giving a home to junkies who haven’t yet graduated from their 10 year old tap.)
The Halo community doesn’t want the same game every year, but we don’t want a complete change in mechanics either. Like I said, when we do, we’ll ask for it. As long as 343/Microsoft stays involved with the community and listens to what they want and what they don’t want, then Halo will continue to thrive.
THAT is what I mean by giving fans what they want.
This whole Halo 3 = built for the competitive crowd and Halo 4 = built for the casual players debate really bugs me. Being a casual player myself, I must say that Halo 4 does not cater to me at all. Even though I’m not competitive, not caring much whether I win or lose, or about my rank, I must say that Halo has always had great gameplay mechanics that made the game fun. The equality of it, the need to scavenge power weapons off of the map, it’s what made Halo unique and entertaining.
These new additions made to Halo 4? They’re not fun at all. It’s not enjoyable being mowed down by random weapons that people have dropped at their feet. It’s no fun having no idea which weapons are going to spawn, when they’ll spawn, and where they’ll spawn. Having people run away on oversized maps the moment they get shot? No, not good at all. Halo 4’s blatant randomness through these new “features” isn’t going to attract a larger variety of players, since they these said features completely destroy what made Halo fun in the first place.
Halo 3, on the other hand, while being geared towards competitive gameplay, was a blast to play. It felt good, balanced and very enjoyable. It didn’t need stupid gimmicks like the Jetpack or Promethean Vision to attract casual players, since it was a great game as it was for anybody who wanted to play. That’s why 343i needs to focus more on the competitive aspect of the game, since it’ll automatically please both the competitive crowd and us, the casual crowd.
Halo is far from over. Halo 5 and 6 will deliver. Not to mention Spielberg is on the case, Halo will blow up eventually.
Of course we want new mechanics. We’ve been getting them ever game. What I want are mechanics to be added if they fit halo. A lot of halo 4s mechanics were implemented wrong and have to be retooled, rebalanced or removed altogether. More traditional mechanics should be brought back, while brand new ones should be added, but only if they are unique and work for halo.
Just moving halo back 5 years is not the solution, especially when next gen games rule the market.
> This whole Halo 3 = built for the competitive crowd and Halo 4 = built for the casual players debate really bugs me. Being a casual player myself, I must say that Halo 4 does not cater to me at all. Even though I’m not competitive, not caring much whether I win or lose, or about my rank, I must say that Halo has always had great gameplay mechanics that made the game fun. The equality of it, the need to scavenge power weapons off of the map, it’s what made Halo unique and entertaining.
>
> These new additions made to Halo 4? They’re not fun at all. It’s not enjoyable being mowed down by random weapons that people have dropped at their feet. It’s no fun having no idea which weapons are going to spawn, when they’ll spawn, and where they’ll spawn. Having people run away on oversized maps the moment they get shot? No, not good at all. Halo 4’s blatant randomness through these new “features” isn’t going to attract a larger variety of players, since they these said features completely destroy what made Halo fun in the first place.
>
> Halo 3, on the other hand, while being geared towards competitive gameplay, was a blast to play. It felt good, balanced and very enjoyable. It didn’t need stupid gimmicks like the Jetpack or Promethean Vision to attract casual players, since it was a great game as it was for anybody who wanted to play. That’s why 343i needs to focus more on the competitive aspect of the game, since it’ll automatically please both the competitive crowd and us, the casual crowd.
Both dual wielding and detachable turrets are gimmicks. Halo 3 also was not geared towards pro gaming. What was casual gaming was pretty similar to pro gaming. Bungie made a game they way they thought people would like it, it just happened to be competitive at the time. The difference between those two types of gaming are now especially apparent, but back during the halo 3 days, they were pretty similar.
> > This whole Halo 3 = built for the competitive crowd and Halo 4 = built for the casual players debate really bugs me. Being a casual player myself, I must say that Halo 4 does not cater to me at all. Even though I’m not competitive, not caring much whether I win or lose, or about my rank, I must say that Halo has always had great gameplay mechanics that made the game fun. The equality of it, the need to scavenge power weapons off of the map, it’s what made Halo unique and entertaining.
> >
> > These new additions made to Halo 4? They’re not fun at all. It’s not enjoyable being mowed down by random weapons that people have dropped at their feet. It’s no fun having no idea which weapons are going to spawn, when they’ll spawn, and where they’ll spawn. Having people run away on oversized maps the moment they get shot? No, not good at all. Halo 4’s blatant randomness through these new “features” isn’t going to attract a larger variety of players, since they these said features completely destroy what made Halo fun in the first place.
> >
> > Halo 3, on the other hand, while being geared towards competitive gameplay, was a blast to play. It felt good, balanced and very enjoyable. It didn’t need stupid gimmicks like the Jetpack or Promethean Vision to attract casual players, since it was a great game as it was for anybody who wanted to play. That’s why 343i needs to focus more on the competitive aspect of the game, since it’ll automatically please both the competitive crowd and us, the casual crowd.
>
> Both dual wielding and detachable turrets are gimmicks. Halo 3 also was not geared towards pro gaming. What was casual gaming was pretty similar to pro gaming. Bungie made a game they way they thought people would like it, it just happened to be competitive at the time. The difference between those two types of gaming are now especially apparent, but back during the halo 3 days, they were pretty similar.
Sure, you could call them gimmicks, but they were gimmicks that were fun and fit well into the Halo gameplay. If somebody comes up to you while dual-wielding weapons, or carrying a turret, does that give them any unfair advantage? Does it make the game less fun for anybody? No, not really. When a player can fly up from the other side of a wall, or use wall hacks to see where you are? Yeah, that’s kind of frustrating and unfair. They take away from the simple fair gameplay of Halo, and aren’t what I’d consider to be good additions to the game.
And if competitive and casual gaming were similar back in the day of Halo 3, why couldn’t they be so now? Who says that casual gaming needs to be filled with a ton of “features”, while competitive gaming remains streamlined and balanced? If causal gamers liked Halo 3 as it was, why couldn’t they like it now? I go back and play Halo 3 every now and then. I even play Reach too. In both games, I find myself having a lot more fun than I do in Halo 4. It’s not nostalgia speaking here, it’s the fact that Bungie had a much better formula that 343i should have followed.
> Of course we want new mechanics. We’ve been getting them ever game. What I want are mechanics to be added if they fit halo. A lot of halo 4s mechanics were implemented wrong and have to be retooled, rebalanced or removed altogether. More traditional mechanics should be brought back, while brand new ones should be added, but only if they are unique and work for halo.
>
> <mark>Just moving halo back 5 years is not the solution, especially when next gen games rule the market.</mark>
Nobody is asking to move Halo back 5 years and give us a Halo 3 replica. We want Halo 5 to go build off Halo 3, and then innovate with new and interesting features that add to the Halo gameplay.
> > > No.
> > >
> > > The last thing Microsoft wants is for its flagship franchise to die. And what’s the best way to keep fans? Give them what they want.
> > >
> > > What we want is the traditional gameplay back. Yes, we want Halo to evolve with new gameplay. But not new MECHANICS, which is what Halo 4 gave us (and we see how well that turned out). The Halo community is HUGE. Instead of trying to bring in new players (by adding mechanics from other games) , 343/Microsoft should focus on the already established fanbase. It’ll work out better for them and for us in the long run.
> > >
> > > When we want a completely different Halo, we’ll ask for it.
> >
> > There’s no point in giving us what we demand if it’s done half-heartedly.
>
> Did I say I wanted it done half-heartedly? If the gameplay we want becomes 343’s top priority, it’ll be done with great care and enthusiasm.
>
> 343 has acknowledged their mistakes and know what the majority wants (which is traditional gameplay). They can’t simply ignore that.
I think 343i won’t ignore that. I think we’re gonna be looking at a mix of 3/Reach style with a few other twists.
> > > This whole Halo 3 = built for the competitive crowd and Halo 4 = built for the casual players debate really bugs me. Being a casual player myself, I must say that Halo 4 does not cater to me at all. Even though I’m not competitive, not caring much whether I win or lose, or about my rank, I must say that Halo has always had great gameplay mechanics that made the game fun. The equality of it, the need to scavenge power weapons off of the map, it’s what made Halo unique and entertaining.
> > >
> > > These new additions made to Halo 4? They’re not fun at all. It’s not enjoyable being mowed down by random weapons that people have dropped at their feet. It’s no fun having no idea which weapons are going to spawn, when they’ll spawn, and where they’ll spawn. Having people run away on oversized maps the moment they get shot? No, not good at all. Halo 4’s blatant randomness through these new “features” isn’t going to attract a larger variety of players, since they these said features completely destroy what made Halo fun in the first place.
> > >
> > > Halo 3, on the other hand, while being geared towards competitive gameplay, was a blast to play. It felt good, balanced and very enjoyable. It didn’t need stupid gimmicks like the Jetpack or Promethean Vision to attract casual players, since it was a great game as it was for anybody who wanted to play. That’s why 343i needs to focus more on the competitive aspect of the game, since it’ll automatically please both the competitive crowd and us, the casual crowd.
> >
> > Both dual wielding and detachable turrets are gimmicks. Halo 3 also was not geared towards pro gaming. What was casual gaming was pretty similar to pro gaming. Bungie made a game they way they thought people would like it, it just happened to be competitive at the time. The difference between those two types of gaming are now especially apparent, but back during the halo 3 days, they were pretty similar.
>
> Sure, you could call them gimmicks, but they were gimmicks that were fun and fit well into the Halo gameplay. If somebody comes up to you while dual-wielding weapons, or carrying a turret, does that give them any unfair advantage? Does it make the game less fun for anybody? No, not really. When a player can fly up from the other side of a wall, or use wall hacks to see where you are? Yeah, that’s kind of frustrating and unfair. They take away from the simple fair gameplay of Halo, and aren’t what I’d consider to be good additions to the game.
>
> And if competitive and casual gaming were similar back in the day of Halo 3, why couldn’t they be so now? Who says that casual gaming needs to be filled with a ton of “features”, while competitive gaming remains streamlined and balanced? If causal gamers liked Halo 3 as it was, why couldn’t they like it now? I go back and play Halo 3 every now and then. I even play Reach too. In both games, I find myself having a lot more fun than I do in Halo 4. It’s not nostalgia speaking here, it’s the fact that Bungie had a much better formula that 343i should have followed.
>
>
>
> > Of course we want new mechanics. We’ve been getting them ever game. What I want are mechanics to be added if they fit halo. A lot of halo 4s mechanics were implemented wrong and have to be retooled, rebalanced or removed altogether. More traditional mechanics should be brought back, while brand new ones should be added, but only if they are unique and work for halo.
> >
> > <mark>Just moving halo back 5 years is not the solution, especially when next gen games rule the market.</mark>
>
> Nobody is asking to move Halo back 5 years and give us a Halo 3 replica. We want Halo 5 to go build off Halo 3, and then innovate with new and interesting features that add to the Halo gameplay.
The quote you highlighted was just me talking in general. Also, the reason those two styles are more different now then ever is because of cod. Cod broke new ground when it came to casual play, that’s why it won’t be like that again. You can go back and play those games and have as much fun as you want but most have moved on.
> This whole Halo 3 = built for the competitive crowd and Halo 4 = built for the casual players debate really bugs me. Being a casual player myself, I must say that Halo 4 does not cater to me at all. Even though I’m not competitive, not caring much whether I win or lose, or about my rank, I must say that Halo has always had great gameplay mechanics that made the game fun. The equality of it, the need to scavenge power weapons off of the map, it’s what made Halo unique and entertaining.
>
> These new additions made to Halo 4? They’re not fun at all. It’s not enjoyable being mowed down by random weapons that people have dropped at their feet. It’s no fun having no idea which weapons are going to spawn, when they’ll spawn, and where they’ll spawn. Having people run away on oversized maps the moment they get shot? No, not good at all. Halo 4’s blatant randomness through these new “features” isn’t going to attract a larger variety of players, since they these said features completely destroy what made Halo fun in the first place.
>
> Halo 3, on the other hand, while being geared towards competitive gameplay, was a blast to play. It felt good, balanced and very enjoyable. It didn’t need stupid gimmicks like the Jetpack or Promethean Vision to attract casual players, since it was a great game as it was for anybody who wanted to play. That’s why 343i needs to focus more on the competitive aspect of the game, since it’ll automatically please both the competitive crowd and us, the casual crowd.
I agree with Hotrod.
Most my games played in Halo 2 and Halo 3 were social. But Halo 2/Halo 3 are so far ahead of REACH and Halo 4. And yet they were more simple.
I want Halo 5 to evolve from Halo 3, but not be Halo 3. There are many features in REACH and Halo 4 I do like, and can be evolved and improved and still keep Halo an Arena Shooter.
I am happy for loadouts to return, but in a much more limited choice of weapons. I am even happy for sprint to return, as recent games of Halo 3, the only thing I missed was sprint.
AA to be map pick ups and either a single or has 2-5 uses, before being discarded. The more powerful the AA, the less uses you get.
POD can return, but only provide Powerups, no weapon choice.
Halo needs to be an Arena Shooter again. Where when the game starts, everyone is equal.
Halo 2 & Halo 3 were the kings of Xbox LIVE for a very long time. Halo needs to be the KING again. We all want it to.
343 just have to find a way to make Halo great again. Halo 4 is a very fun game, and even a great game, but no where near as great as what Halo 3 was.