Classic art-design or not?

In th latest 343 post on HW John Junyszek writes this about the feedback on the visuals:

-“Based on our learnings from Halo 4, Halo 5, and Halo Wars 2 – along with strong community feedback – we decided to shift back towards the legacy aesthetics that defined the original trilogy. With Halo Infinite, we’re returning to a more ‘classic’ art style”.

So personally I don’t find this very accurate from what they have shown so far, to me it rather looks like a new artstyle with a few hints of old.
This is not a complaint necessarily more just an opinion/speculation, I both like and dislike aspects of this art-style.

These are the things I personally think feel “classic”(ish)
-BR
-Elites
-Jackals
-Grunts
-Chief’s armor
(might be forgetting something)

So I wanted to check peoples views on this. Questions:
-Do you find this artstyle “overall” “classic”?
-What things did you find classic?
-Are you happy with the art-style?
-If you were not happy with the art-style, was the problem ever the “classicness” of it? Or actually the new stuff? or both? or neither?
-Is this a reasonable responce from 343 or are they missing the point?
-What NEW art-style choices did you like?

You don’t have to stick to the questions, just say what you feel, but those are the things I am most curious about :slight_smile:

Brighter colours for Spartans and Elites is good for me.

Enemies that pop and stand out sharply in online multiplayer is good.

Hope the multiplayer maps are nice and colourful too.

I mean outside the weird lighting/texture issues, the designs for the most part are very classic overall. There was some modern grunts, but also some old grunts. Jackals were hard to see but seemed to be the old turkey kind. Elites were definitely old, and Brutes seemed to be a mix of halo 3 armor and the Banished armor depending on the brute (and weird faces aside, lean towards H3 brutes).

The most notably different things are the new guns (which I personally don’t have a problem with) and the Banished. And unlike the covenant remnant (or ‘storm’ as was wrongly labeled), this is clearly a different faction with its own aesthetic that fits it, plus the brutes don’t look that far off from previous designs.

I heavily preferred the more realistic styles started by Reach through 5. I also like canon continuity so going backward is weird and makes it hard to judge the timeline.

343 has their style, and they should have just kept to it despite the wishes of the most vocal part of the community. They aren’t Bungie, and forcing them to copy another company’s style is just not going to bring out their best work.

Honestly, I could stomach these changes if only one thing were different: Chief’s armor color. It has GOT to be darker or less vibrant than it is. It doesn’t have to be as dark as 3 or 4, but it needs to at least look like a piece of military hardware

For me, it looks like 343 just took the Halo 1 graphics with all its limitations from that time, upscalled it to 4K and called it “classic art-style” It is not about the graphics that look bad, the art-direction and the designs themselves are poor, they lack detail, they lack weight, complexity, something that looks functional and believable. The Phanton is ridiculous just a bunch of blocks meshed together, the hexagons are boring, no detail, no forerrunner aesthetic. The elite armor feels like a cosplay armor, there’s not much detail in there to make me feel it is a believable armor piece. “Simpler” (boring) designs is not what makes the classic art-style classic. It is designs that have clear silhouettes and a bunch of detail inside it to make them look it is a real thing.

The problem for me is not the art-style change, it is that 343 took the classic art style thing too literally and went too far with it. If they had made a cool mix between Halo 3 and Halo 4 art directions and added details on the design to make them look 2020 it wouldn’t be a problem at all and I guess everybody would be fine with the styles living together. Now with this “simple” approach it just enhances the feeling that the art-direction and graphics look outdated. Like a car from the 80, like a Ferrari Testarrossa. It is aclassic car, a beautiful car, but it has clear signs it is from older times, like the interior, the pop up headlights, etc.

> 2533274801472802;4:
> 343 has their style, and they should have just kept to it despite the wishes of the most vocal part of the community. They aren’t Bungie, and forcing them to copy another company’s style is just not going to bring out their best work.

While I’d say I’m mostly in a similar camp as you, I feel like the reaction to Halo Wars 2’s art style kind of sealed the deal. The game got far too much praise just because it vaguely looked classic.

Honestly I don’t mind the covies reverting, most the covie changes were explained in lore continuity anyway and doesn’t make the old looks obsolete. It does bug me however how the unvierse is now oddly attached to the way the MK VI armor looked for like 2 months.

> 2533274964189700;6:
> > 2533274801472802;4:
> > 343 has their style, and they should have just kept to it despite the wishes of the most vocal part of the community. They aren’t Bungie, and forcing them to copy another company’s style is just not going to bring out their best work.
>
> While I’d say I’m mostly in a similar camp as you, I feel like the reaction to Halo Wars 2’s art style kind of sealed the deal. The game got far too much praise just because it vaguely looked classic.
>
> Honestly I don’t mind the covies reverting, most the covie changes were explained in lore continuity anyway and doesn’t make the old looks obsolete. It does bug me however how the unvierse is now oddly attached to the way the MK VI armor looked for like 2 months.

They also could have gone the other route and put the Halo 4 and 5 Artstyle on the Spirit and their Crew. The Artstyle in Halo Wars 2 came very close to the one in Halo 2 and 3 - which i like - i do not hate 343’s style (I do love how the Warthog looks since Halo 4 (Or Forza Motorsport 4 if you count that)) but it just doesn’t feel “Halo” to me so seeing Chief in an Armor that to inspiration from Wars 2, “Classic” Halo, Legends and their (Sparth’s) own style made me happy. I just think the “Edge” Style for Armor, Ships and so on looks more Human than what we got later on with the Infinity, the new Pelicans and Spartan Armors.

I think 343i is trying to go for a more classic style, but the keywords here are “trying” and “more”. There are some things that are definitely more classic inspired: the Elites, the Jackals, Master Chief’s armor, the Forerunner aesthetic (I actually disagree with OP about the Grunts). However, there are absolutely things that are holdovers from the art style that 343i has been advancing for the past few games: the Warthog, significant parts of the Grunt design, and some aspects of the Forerunner aesthetic. I don’t think they are fully trying to go for a classic style, but are more trying to compromise between their own style and the classic style.

However, the other keyword here was “trying”. I don’t think they have quite managed to understand what makes the classic art style. I think they’re going at too superficial level and consequently creating something that is a parody of the classic style. The paragraph OP quoted a section of continues with “This translates to a more vibrant palette, ‘cleaner’ models and objects with less ‘noise’, though it doesn’t mean less detail”. But the “cleanliness” displayed in the gameplay demo misses the point and is overdone, producing art that looks very sterile. I just wrote about this in another thread, so I’m just going to quote myself from there:

> 2533274825830455;1337:
> But in the Halo Infinite demo, the issue is that objects look too clean in the literal sense: they literally lack all kinds of scratches, dents, color variation, discoloration, mud, corrosion. They look like they came fresh off the factory line. But if you go back and actually look at the classic Halo art style, it’s not like this. Some of the Forerunner structures since Halo CE clearly show signs of water damage and corrosion. Weapons and vehicles are full of scratches. Everything in the classic art style is worn and dirty. The games often use this for great effect to make things like the Halo rings and Crow’s Nest look old. Classic Halo is aesthetically clean, but literally dirty. Halo Infinite tries to be clean in both ways, which isn’t faithful to the classic style.

The classic art style is dirty. It’s gritty (in the literal sense). Everything is covered in something that tells the player it has seen life and didn’t just pop into existence when the player loaded the level. This grit is a very important component of the classic art style without which everything will just look “plastic” or “toy-like” or whatever is your favorite derogatory of an appearance that looks too clean to be believable.

The other part of classic art that I feel like goes misunderstood in Halo Infinite is “simplicity” of the Forerunner designs. Because that’s one of the things Halo 5 got criticism for: “the Forerunner designs; they look too busy and complex. Classic Halo is monolithic with repeating patters and angles”. If you take that description to its extreme, endless grey repeating hexagons is exactly what you’re gonna get. But it again misses the nuance of how the classic style is described vs. what is actually happening. If you go play the final level of Halo 3, you’ll see how to actually give an interesting foundational structure for a Halo ring.

The art style of Halo Infinite is kind of what I was afraid would happen: something that fits a certain superficial description of the classic art style, but takes it too far, and misses many of the subtleties.

> 2533274825830455;8:
> I think 343i is trying to go for a more classic style, but the keywords here are “trying” and “more”. There are some things that are definitely more classic inspired: the Elites, the Jackals, Master Chief’s armor, the Forerunner aesthetic (I actually disagree with OP about the Grunts). However, there are absolutely things that are holdovers from the art style that 343i has been advancing for the past few games: the Warthog, significant parts of the Grunt design, and some aspects of the Forerunner aesthetic. I don’t think they are fully trying to go for a classic style, but are more trying to compromise between their own style and the classic style.
>
> However, the other keyword here was “trying”. I don’t think they have quite managed to understand what makes the classic art style. I think they’re going at too superficial level and consequently creating something that is a parody of the classic style. The paragraph OP quoted a section of continues with “This translates to a more vibrant palette, ‘cleaner’ models and objects with less ‘noise’, though it doesn’t mean less detail”. But the “cleanliness” displayed in the gameplay demo misses the point and is overdone, producing art that looks very sterile. I just wrote about this in another thread, so I’m just going to quote myself from there:
>
>
> > 2533274825830455;1337:
> > But in the Halo Infinite demo, the issue is that objects look too clean in the literal sense: they literally lack all kinds of scratches, dents, color variation, discoloration, mud, corrosion. They look like they came fresh off the factory line. But if you go back and actually look at the classic Halo art style, it’s not like this. Some of the Forerunner structures since Halo CE clearly show signs of water damage and corrosion. Weapons and vehicles are full of scratches. Everything in the classic art style is worn and dirty. The games often use this for great effect to make things like the Halo rings and Crow’s Nest look old. Classic Halo is aesthetically clean, but literally dirty. Halo Infinite tries to be clean in both ways, which isn’t faithful to the classic style.
>
> The classic art style is dirty. It’s gritty (in the literal sense). Everything is covered in something that tells the player it has seen life and didn’t just pop into existence when the player loaded the level. This grit is a very important component of the classic art style without which everything will just look “plastic” or “toy-like” or whatever is your favorite derogatory of an appearance that looks too clean to be believable.
>
> The other part of classic art that I feel like goes misunderstood in Halo Infinite is “simplicity” of the Forerunner designs. Because that’s one of the things Halo 5 got criticism for: “the Forerunner designs; they look too busy and complex. Classic Halo is monolithic with repeating patters and angles”. If you take that description to its extreme, endless grey repeating hexagons is exactly what you’re gonna get. But it again misses the nuance of how the classic style is described vs. what is actually happening. If you go play the final level of Halo 3, you’ll see how to actually give an interesting foundational structure for a Halo ring.
>
> The art style of Halo Infinite is kind of what I was afraid would happen: something that fits a certain superficial description of the classic art style, but takes it too far, and misses many of the subtleties.

Well elaborated response, it was very interesting to read, thx :slight_smile: