Classic and Modern Halo's in one option for MP?

Games Halo Infinite
1

> “Classic Halo for MLG mode; other modes are fine with or without advanced movement for me” ~ J HOVA 8

It once sounded like an idea that could be locked to the MLG portion for the Hardcore Classic Halo players. But then an idea popped like a headshot-killed grunt with the Grunt Birthday Party skull on, the idea that followed on the forum topic of Halo Infinite named “Halo 6 wishlist”, an idea that has potential to be beta tested among the Insiders and Flight Testers to see if it would be the cure of bringing a split video game community back together that was split upon the fall of Reach. The idea named; Classic and Modern Halo Options in Multiplayer.

Inspired by what J HOVA 8 said in the Halo 6 Wishlist forum post, and also looking at what we have in Halo MCC’s social multiplayer lobby customizer, I see a light of hope to restore a once lost balance (or maybe I’m beating a dead horse with a stick)…

It may sound simple but it might be harder for some to truly understand, but what I was wondering that 343 could provide in the upcoming infinite that can follow in MCC’s steps for online matchmaking customization. An option to allow players to be paired in games that have either the Classic Halo mechanics of the original trilogy, and or the Modern Halo mechanics of the later games upon personal choice in matchmaking.

Here’s what I’m thinking:

  • The Classic Halo option will have the best basic gameplay components and behaviors such as movement, shield & health, death behaviors, scoring systems, etc. IE Classic Halo will have the original trademark player movements, jumping heights, shield strength, health behaviors, 1 point for kill/capture, -1 for suicide/betrayals, no death cams for those who just love to rub it in (not recommended, personally speaking), no game-over freezing so you can still go nuts in the aftermath, descoping when getting hit, and no aiming-down-the-sites Smart Scope thing. - The Modern Halo option will have the best basic gameplay components and behaviors from the newer games. IE Modern Halo will have the best modern elements of player movements like Halo 4’s sprinting that does NOT prohibit shield recharging while in motion and not getting hit, Reaches armor ability collection with a few of 4’s like the promethean vision and turret deployment (no hardlight shield because it was kinda useless along with H4’s nerfed jetpack), H5 Beta’s death-cam behaviors that fades in right after you die in multiplayer and shows how you got kill and then afterwards upon remaining respawn time you spectate other teammates that you can switch between, H4’s slayer scoring system that rewards small points to players for assistance that does attribute to the entire team overall, pressing a button to swap seats in a vehicle (its very handy), sliding and clambering (but leaving both the thruster packs and ground pounding out because many people didn’t like them that much), H4’s no descoping when getting hit (aim distortion is fine), and H4’s customized loadouts (either allowed or disallowed in various game mode variants).Since the community is known for arguing about every single Quality-of-Life changes that 343 continuously implements, either cosmetic or mechanical, and also with MCC’s social matchmaking options, I think that this can be used to help balance things out with the Hardcore players and the Common players (the ones who appreciate modern things in Halo).

Since Infinite is going to be massive (according to 343) and a public beta period seems likely (would make sense), I believe that this idea for matchmaking customization that follows in MCC’s wake would do wonders if the old school players agree on the Classic Halo option while the common players agree on the Modern Halo option. Imagine MCC’s social matchmakings system but replace the “Halo Games” with two options that say “Modern” or “Classic” that you choose either one of them or both along with the preexisting Game type selections and Maximum player count.

Game modes won’t change under this, but map’s may need tinkering to help balance the two extremes or something, same sorta thing with the “competitive” multiplayer part. The Campaign however should probably be left out of this thing, might cause potential inconsistencies…

At least that’s what I think about this…

2

No way.

1.) The most important reason why it won’t work: Weapon Sandbox, Bullet Magnetism etc.
Basicially everything about Balance between Infantrists & Vehicles.

2.) Maps. Not only do 2 different styles mean 2 different Sandboxes, it also means you have to double the amount of maps. Before someone comes up with the argument: “But…there are forge maps!” - Yes, Forge Maps have improved a lot, but I’m not paying 60 Euros for Forge Maps. The amount of Detail & Dynamique Map Elements you can put in a map as a developer is on another Level. I mean it’s like going into a restaurant, ordering a Pizza and the waiter would say something like: “Na na na hold on, you have to make your Pizza in our Kitchen, I’m just taking the orders, Sir”

3.) Why do people actually think that all Fans of the Run & Gun Movement are “Hardcore MLG Players” - I mean these suggestions would never work in the first place, but it’s just something that has been mentioned so often. Most people are always casual gamers and if I’m not mistaken prior to Reach, BTB was always the most populated gamemode. Just because one side has more knowledge about basic functions in a First Person Shooter, it doesn’t automatically mean that we’re all “Hardcore MLG Players”

4.) Halo is neither Fortnite, nor Black Ops 4 (MP only games). Halo always has had a campaign and it always will. The campaign is as important as the Multiplayer and the run & gun movement (Classic) is as essential for the campaign as it is for the Multiplayer.

5.) What actually is “modern” ? Some Animations? - Because nothing about Sprint is modern. Animations do not define if a Game is modern or not. And by the way, nothing what you’ve mentioned is modern - it’s just some old stuff from other Games. Copying some old stuff won’t make any Franchise more modern. Improving the own, etablished Formula, bringing something new to the market (by new I mean real new stuff) whether it’s about gamemodes & various Elements into Multiplayer & Campaign or breaking barriers with the tools you have (New Engine, Power of Next Gen), THIS will make your game more modern.
The Run & Gun Movements (Classic) can be as “modern” as those “advanced” Movement Games with a few adjustments. And the Run & Gun Movement (if implemented in the right way) is more “advanced”, than the newer Halo Titles, but this has been mentioned dozens of times in the Movement-Thread.

One last thing, though, you’ve said "Since the community is known for arguing about every single Quality-of-Life changes that 343 continuously implements"
The community doesn’t have an issue with new things, the community has an issue with pointless, old things from other games. The horrible mentality of chasing trends in this decade has almost led to the irrelevance of this Franchise.
If something is good, Developers will get praised for it. How many people have complained about the improvements in Forge? How many people have complained about the fact that you can swap your seats in the vehicles? How many people have complained about the custom game browser? So, again, if certain things add value to your game, people will praise you for it.
So please stop acting as if the community would complain for the sake of complaining about new things.

3

> 2535433721770439;2:
> No way.
>
> 1.) The most important reason why it won’t work: Weapon Sandbox, Bullet Magnetism etc.
> Basicially everything about Balance between Infantrists & Vehicles.
>
> 2.) Maps. Not only do 2 different styles mean 2 different Sandboxes, it also means you have to double the amount of maps. Before someone comes up with the argument: “But…there are forge maps!” - Yes, Forge Maps have improved a lot, but I’m not paying 60 Euros for Forge Maps. The amount of Detail & Dynamique Map Elements you can put in a map as a developer is on another Level. I mean it’s like going into a restaurant, ordering a Pizza and the waiter would say something like: “Na na na hold on, you have to make your Pizza in our Kitchen, I’m just taking the orders, Sir”
>
> 3.) Why do people actually think that all Fans of the Run & Gun Movement are “Hardcore MLG Players” - I mean these suggestions would never work in the first place, but it’s just something that has been mentioned so often. Most people are always casual gamers and if I’m not mistaken prior to Reach, BTB was always the most populated gamemode. Just because one side has more knowledge about basic functions in a First Person Shooter, it doesn’t automatically mean that we’re all “Hardcore MLG Players”
>
> 4.) Halo is neither Fortnite, nor Black Ops 4 (MP only games). Halo always has had a campaign and it always will. The campaign is as important as the Multiplayer and the run & gun movement (Classic) is as essential for the campaign as it is for the Multiplayer.
>
> 5.) What actually is “modern” ? Some Animations? - Because nothing about Sprint is modern. Animations do not define if a Game is modern or not. And by the way, nothing what you’ve mentioned is modern - it’s just some old stuff from other Games. Copying some old stuff won’t make any Franchise more modern. Improving the own, etablished Formula, bringing something new to the market (by new I mean real new stuff) whether it’s about gamemodes & various Elements into Multiplayer & Campaign or breaking barriers with the tools you have (New Engine, Power of Next Gen), THIS will make your game more modern.
> The Run & Gun Movements (Classic) can be as “modern” as those “advanced” Movement Games with a few adjustments. And the Run & Gun Movement (if implemented in the right way) is more “advanced”, than the newer Halo Titles, but this has been mentioned dozens of times in the Movement-Thread.
>
> One last thing, though, you’ve said **“Since the community is known for arguing about every single Quality-of-Life changes that 343 continuously implements”**People don’t have an issue with new things, people have an issue with pointless, old things from other games. The horrible mentality of chasing trends in this decade has almost led to the irrelevance of this Franchise.
> If something is good, Developers will get praised for it. How many people have complained about the improvements in Forge? How many people have complained about the fact that you can swap your seats in the vehicles? How many people have complained about the custom game browser? So, again, if certain things add value to your game, people will praise you for it.
> So please stop acting as if People would complain for the sake of complaining about new things.

Dude, it was just a suggestion and my personal view/opinion on this, calm down… You did bring up some good points in your argument, I’ll give you that. Perfection is only an impossiblity…

4

> 2533274838281022;3:
> > 2535433721770439;2:
> >
>
> Dude, it was just a suggestion and my personal view/opinion on this, calm down… You did bring up some good points in your argument, I’ll give you that. Perfection is only an impossiblity…

You can have your opinion and I’m not saying that one thing is better than the other one (in general), but no one should act as if one side is superior to the other one. Your first paragraph caught my attention, so I went to your profile to navigate to the post that you’ve mentioned. And from what I’ve seen is that you constantly call people with other opinions in regards to movement “Purists” or they should just not play the newer games and “shut up” - I mean, really?

Everyone here is allowed to share their opinions. This is how you move forward, constructive crtisizm is always welcome.

5

I always appreciate a unifying attitude, so I commend your thoughts and suggestions, OP.

However, even if Infinite is a big game population-wise out of the gate, fragmenting its online population into subdivisions will do more harm than good to the longevity and viability of the game. It would split the player base from day one into two groups who are each playing a practically different game. Infinite needs to have its own identity, just like every Halo game before it. Maybe that identity is more daring, bold, innovative and challenging than any of the others prior. Maybe it’s traditional, conservative, and highly polished. I don’t think either way is necessarily right or wrong, but 343i needs to pick a lane and stick in it.

Toggles and split matchmaking communities are only band--Yoink!-–they won’t solve the underlying problems of why Modern and Classic players are always at each other’s throats.

6

> 2535433721770439;4:
> > 2533274838281022;3:
> > > 2535433721770439;2:
> > >
> >
> > Dude, it was just a suggestion and my personal view/opinion on this, calm down… You did bring up some good points in your argument, I’ll give you that. Perfection is only an impossiblity…
>
> You can have your opinion and I’m not saying that one thing is better than the other one (in general), but no one should act as if one side is superior to the other one. Your first paragraph caught my attention, so I went to your profile to navigate to the post that you’ve mentioned. And from what I’ve seen is that you constantly call people with other opinions in regards to movement “Purists” or they should just not play the newer games and “shut up” - I mean, really?
>
> Everyone here is allowed to share their opinions. This is how you move forward, constructive crtisizm is always welcome.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to be rude…

I don’t hate all the purists out there, some are understandable and do point out things in the newer games that makes sense… It can be tricky to find the good ones…

But still regardless of anyones suggestions for Infinite and hereafter, its still tricky to find a proper balance as Superman Kenobi pointed out, understandably too…

> “The Great Journey requires sacrifice!” The Prophet of Regret (Halo Wars)

7

This would theoretically work, if the devs had infinite time and money. As they don’t, any work spent on one side of the gameplay experience would take away from the other, and we would have two incompatible halves of one game.

Whether the gameplay is Classic, Non-Classic, Mythic-like, or something else entirely, it has to be consistent across the game.

8

> 2535433721770439;2:
> No way.
>
> 1.) The most important reason why it won’t work: Weapon Sandbox, Bullet Magnetism etc.
> Basicially everything about Balance between Infantrists & Vehicles.
>
> 2.) Maps. Not only do 2 different styles mean 2 different Sandboxes, it also means you have to double the amount of maps. Before someone comes up with the argument: “But…there are forge maps!” - Yes, Forge Maps have improved a lot, but I’m not paying 60 Euros for Forge Maps. The amount of Detail & Dynamique Map Elements you can put in a map as a developer is on another Level. I mean it’s like going into a restaurant, ordering a Pizza and the waiter would say something like: “Na na na hold on, you have to make your Pizza in our Kitchen, I’m just taking the orders, Sir”
>
> 3.) Why do people actually think that all Fans of the Run & Gun Movement are “Hardcore MLG Players” - I mean these suggestions would never work in the first place, but it’s just something that has been mentioned so often. Most people are always casual gamers and if I’m not mistaken prior to Reach, BTB was always the most populated gamemode. Just because one side has more knowledge about basic functions in a First Person Shooter, it doesn’t automatically mean that we’re all “Hardcore MLG Players”
>
> 4.) Halo is neither Fortnite, nor Black Ops 4 (MP only games). Halo always has had a campaign and it always will. The campaign is as important as the Multiplayer and the run & gun movement (Classic) is as essential for the campaign as it is for the Multiplayer.
>
> 5.) What actually is “modern” ? Some Animations? - Because nothing about Sprint is modern. Animations do not define if a Game is modern or not. And by the way, nothing what you’ve mentioned is modern - it’s just some old stuff from other Games. Copying some old stuff won’t make any Franchise more modern. Improving the own, etablished Formula, bringing something new to the market (by new I mean real new stuff) whether it’s about gamemodes & various Elements into Multiplayer & Campaign or breaking barriers with the tools you have (New Engine, Power of Next Gen), THIS will make your game more modern.
> The Run & Gun Movements (Classic) can be as “modern” as those “advanced” Movement Games with a few adjustments. And the Run & Gun Movement (if implemented in the right way) is more “advanced”, than the newer Halo Titles, but this has been mentioned dozens of times in the Movement-Thread.
>
> One last thing, though, you’ve said **“Since the community is known for arguing about every single Quality-of-Life changes that 343 continuously implements”**The community doesn’t have an issue with new things, the community has an issue with pointless, old things from other games. The horrible mentality of chasing trends in this decade has almost led to the irrelevance of this Franchise.
> If something is good, Developers will get praised for it. How many people have complained about the improvements in Forge? How many people have complained about the fact that you can swap your seats in the vehicles? How many people have complained about the custom game browser? So, again, if certain things add value to your game, people will praise you for it.
> So please stop acting as if the community would complain for the sake of complaining about new things.

you have some really valid points. I definitely hadn’t thought about the balancing issues with bullet magnetism, etc. Also, just the fact that would be confusing from a programming standpoint and also for map design. Well, lets see if they go with classic halo and increased base movement speed or sprint. Hope there is a beta so we can all test it out!

9

Hmm… You know, if they don’t include this idea at launch (winter 2020 is not that far away right now), theoretically they can added later on as a title update once the game is out and people reviewed it and overload the “suggestion” box along with bug reports and such if they do not delay it if it isn’t ready. Case in point; MCC after 343 gave us ODST as an apology to its disastrous launch (that I personally say was 343’s first strike with Halo 5 as a whole as strike 2) and later on Reach and PC following popular demand. If it works like that, it could work here too (not just THIS suggestion but also several other good ones BTW).

Then again, that why we have Beta’s and more recently Insider Flights…

You all did point out some interesting things and understandable arguments, not only the players need to listen, but also the developers and publishers need to listen to and understand criticism and concerns too, because it shows that they care. Unless they all idiotically chose the “It Just Works” path, or the “It’s not greed, it’s Surprise Money!” path (if you know what I mean)…

> “A lot of gaming companies seem to forget that its important to listen to criticism and concerns because it shows that you care about your customers, even if it is for their money” ~ Joshua Burner, The Fiery Joker (Top Ten Blizzard Fails)

> “A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad” ~ Shigeru Miyamoto