With all the speculation about what’s going to be included in the next Halo game(s) I was wondering about something that was an integral part of the original Halo online experience: Clans.
The entire matchmaking experience was built into Halo 2, which included clan support. My internet connection at the time was abysmal so I never experienced what it was like. All I know for sure is that clan support disappeared with Halo 3, never to return. Bungie was kind of wishy-washy about including it with both Halo 3 and Reach but in the end never included it with either. It was hinted at with Halo 4 but it still didn’t materialize. Clearly something happened. I’m wondering what that was and what would have to happen to bring it back, because even though the support isn’t there, clans still persist and there is a segment of the community that would like to see it return.
I definitely want to see a Waypoint-integrated clan system in Halo on Xbox One. In addition, I’d like 343i to adapt something similar to Bungie’s old group system on Waypoint, allowing for people to have their own forum discussions, articles, and so on.
I have many more ideas for a clan system, but it would be better left to its own thread.
343 DID say in a previous update that they agreed that the clan system from H2 was something they too also missed, and that they were going to look into it ‘in due course’.
> > I never played halo 2 online, but I would like for clan support to return. It would help my clan out a lot and make things more organized for us.
>
> I was in KoG back in the H2 days…it was so easy to organise things…bliss.
>
> ~ Duck.
oh really that’s cool, but yeah it should totally return.
You have my vote for clans to return, love that in Halo 2. Dedicated servers would certainly provide an excellent framework for clan battles. There is a ton of community interaction, content and leaderboards etc that could be derived from clans too.
I always wondered what “groups” were when Halo 4 was marketing pre-release but it seems to have been a cut feature/point post release.
> You have my vote for clans to return, love that in Halo 2. Dedicated servers would certainly provide an excellent framework for clan battles. There is a ton of community interaction, content and leaderboards etc that could be derived from clans too.
>
> I always wondered what “groups” were when Halo 4 was marketing pre-release but it seems to have been a cut feature/point post release.
Which is the point of this thread. Why was clan support dropped?
> > You have my vote for clans to return, love that in Halo 2. Dedicated servers would certainly provide an excellent framework for clan battles. There is a ton of community interaction, content and leaderboards etc that could be derived from clans too.
> >
> > I always wondered what “groups” were when Halo 4 was marketing pre-release but it seems to have been a cut feature/point post release.
>
> Which is the point of this thread. Why was clan support dropped?
I’ve never read a specific reason from Xbox or Bungie or 343i, who knows? Cheating or trash talking etc? I recall Halo 2 on the original xbox/live service had clans as part of the XBL platform. It was removed from XBL in the 360 era and Halo 3 onwards. As for why that occurred with Xbox itself or why Halo developers haven’t had clans I don’t have an answer or even speculation really.
The clan list was removed from Halo because -Yoink!- essentially used it as a test for the friends list that was later launched with the 360 and the revamped XBL.
When H3 came around, the view from -Yoink!- & (I think) Bungie was that if the clan list was kept, it would essentially just be a 2nd friends list. Therefore it was deemed redundant and done away with.
> The clan list was removed from Halo because -Yoink!- essentially used it as a test for the friends list that was later launched with the 360 and the revamped XBL.
>
> When H3 came around, the view from -Yoink!- & (I think) Bungie was that if the clan list was kept, it would essentially just be a 2nd friends list. Therefore it was deemed redundant and done away with.
>
> ~ Duck.
The list part I can understand but what of the playlist and membership features of clans from Halo 2? There was clan slayer and clan objective playlists and you had to be a member of a clan to play with them.
Perhaps the XBL clan list removal is the reason for losing this in game clan functionality but I’d still like Halo developers to return the clan features with or without direct XBL/X1 support.
> > The clan list was removed from Halo because -Yoink!- essentially used it as a test for the friends list that was later launched with the 360 and the revamped XBL.
> >
> > When H3 came around, the view from -Yoink!- & (I think) Bungie was that if the clan list was kept, it would essentially just be a 2nd friends list. Therefore it was deemed redundant and done away with.
> >
> > ~ Duck.
>
> The list part I can understand but what of the playlist and membership features of clans from Halo 2? There was clan slayer and clan objective playlists and you had to be a member of a clan to play with them.
>
> Perhaps the XBL clan list removal is the reason for losing this in game clan functionality but I’d still like Halo developers to return the clan features with or without direct XBL/X1 support.
Agree with you totally Ozzy. Although to clarify, the clan list was an in-game H2 only thing…it wasn’t console-wide on the original xbox (It sounded like you had that impression although I probably mis-read your post…I’m tired). Saying that though, their reason for getting rid of it I disagree with, I don’t know one person that found it a pain to have two separate friends lists.
The guys an gals at 343 said that they too missed the clan list circa H2 and everything that came with it, so I’m pretty happy that they’ll give it a reasonable look.
Personally though, fixing the general gameplay balance issues from AA’s, Personal ordnance and loadous are higher on my priority/ wish list.
> The list part I can understand but what of the playlist and membership features of clans from Halo 2? There was clan slayer and clan objective playlists and you had to be a member of a clan to play with them.
Wait… they had their own PLAYLISTS?!? Were they well populated? Could that be a reason it was dropped?
How could they shut you out if you weren’t in a clan?
> > The list part I can understand but what of the playlist and membership features of clans from Halo 2? There was clan slayer and clan objective playlists and you had to be a member of a clan to play with them.
>
> Wait… they had their own PLAYLISTS?!? Were they well populated? Could that be a reason it was dropped?
>
> How could they shut you out if you weren’t in a clan?
Yep there was two, a slayer and an objective playlist. I was part of the Australian BTB clan, one of the largest down here from memory. The population was very solid and it was easy to get game in either. It wasn’t as big as default matchmaking slayer though. The thing about it was no guests, no splitscreen (from memory), had to be part of the same clan to play and you knew the other team were going to be experienced together plus ready for a competitive game.
Perhaps developers/XBL believed party matching was the replacement but I find the clan aspect brings far better game experiences.
Honestly I have no idea why it was removed, I don’t think it was from low populations. I’d hazard a guess it was removed due to cheating, Halo 2 allowed so many network cheats and system abuse it wasn’t funny.
I truly hope this sort of organised social/competitive clan aspect returns, even if it’s online tournaments/leaderboards.
> Yep there was two, a slayer and an objective playlist. I was part of the Australian BTB clan, one of the largest down here from memory. The population was very solid and it was easy to get game in either. It wasn’t as big as default matchmaking slayer though. The thing about it was no guests, no splitscreen (from memory), had to be part of the same clan to play and you knew the other team were going to be experienced together plus ready for a competitive game.
OK. I had to think about this for a while.
What you describe sounds a lot like what the competitive community would want. Exclusive playlists free from randoms and inexperienced players, or at least some assurance that their teammates were up to the task and their opponents were worthy.
I can’t help thinking that clans (although I’m tending to think of them as Teams, like the Seattle Seahawks is a Team) that made a name for themselves as representing the true spirit of Halo would be a superior resource for refining the game. I think of how Football went from a bunch of guys no longer in college that still wanted to play to the National Football League we have today. The difference was organized teams.
We had that, and then lost it because somebody didn’t want duplicate friends lists? Can you imagine what MLG and AGL would be like if we had actual Teams that we could root for instead of teams that assembled themselves the day of the Tournament? Wouldn’t Halo 2 style clan (Team) support be more effective than the Champions Bundle and a top 200 leaderboard?
I also tend to think that membership in a top Team (clan) would be more prestigious than just having a 50, which would solve the problem of account selling. No self-respecting Team would want a bogus member, and only members could participate in the exclusive playlists.
I’ve never really seen what’s so great about clans. 99.9% of the clans I have played just end up being A-holes who think they’re godly at a game and so pro. Then they take up the entire file browser with worthless crap they think everyone will care about and they just seem to take it way too seriously. Don’t get me wrong I like winning, but having a hierarchical system with gameplans and practice sessions is one thing I am not up to. Whatever happened to just sitting down and playing a game with some friends. Play to win, but have fun. Then again I am obviously not a clan gamer so I don’t expect to understand the mindset.
> I’ve never really seen what’s so great about clans. 99.9% of the clans I have played just end up being A-holes who think they’re godly at a game and so pro. Then they take up the entire file browser with worthless crap they think everyone will care about and they just seem to take it way too seriously. Don’t get me wrong I like winning, but having a hierarchical system with gameplans and practice sessions is one thing I am not up to. Whatever happened to just sitting down and playing a game with some friends. Play to win, but have fun. Then again I am obviously not a clan gamer so I don’t expect to understand the mindset.
What’s stopping you from “just sitting down and playing a game with some friends”? Split it into ranked and social playlists- boom, clans go into ranked playlist to have a more competitive game, you go into a social playlist to have fun.
> > I’ve never really seen what’s so great about clans. 99.9% of the clans I have played just end up being A-holes who think they’re godly at a game and so pro. Then they take up the entire file browser with worthless crap they think everyone will care about and they just seem to take it way too seriously. Don’t get me wrong I like winning, but having a hierarchical system with gameplans and practice sessions is one thing I am not up to. Whatever happened to just sitting down and playing a game with some friends. Play to win, but have fun. Then again I am obviously not a clan gamer so I don’t expect to understand the mindset.
>
> What’s stopping you from “just sitting down and playing a game with some friends”? Split it into ranked and social playlists- boom, clans go into ranked playlist to have a more competitive game, you go into a social playlist to have fun.
well that would be nice assuming 343 actually implements it this time. I still enjoy playing ranked though. My point is that matchmaking systems don’t prioritize putting clans or any sizable group against another equally sized group. Often times if I play solo or with one or two friends (we like big team so don’t say we make up 3/4 of a team please) we always get put against a group of 6 people who are all in the same group and just play as if it’s a clan war and they just dominate everything.