One of the biggest mistakes 343 made was the Chiefs character. They said something like they believed that he was a human being and not a robot, contradicting what bungie had said about him before. I actually agree with this 100% but the problem was he isnt the same person as depicted in bungies halo.
In order for the Master Chief to come alive again, he needs to speak about 10 times less then he did in 4/5. Totally ruined his persona. Everything the Chief said in 1-3 was PERFECT. Some of his most iconic lines show the depth in his character. I NEED A WEAPON. He isnt just saying roboticly that he needs a weapon. He just saved not only the entire human race but the entire galaxy aswell. He shows up to his parade wearing his full armor, and when asked by his superior to throw his life back in danger he says formally Yes Sir! Then he looks at his boy Sgt johnson and delivers that epic line we all know. Such a simple line and yet so powerful.
He sometimes also has a very subtle sarcastic reaction to things. If any other character comes to mind like this, its almost like a less comical one punch man. The chief is also very unassuming. He is never caught off guard even when the situation is out of his control. This is a key element to his character.
I feel like his character is very difficult to depict because of how subtle it is. It would be much easier imo if he barely spoke at all in infinite to be honest. If he didnt have a single line i think it would end up better than if they screw his character up again. He felt too flawed in 4/5. Even though he is a human he is the best human.
What say you fellow halo nerds?
Look at chief’s new personality, as an evolution of his character.
Pre-Halo 4, chief didn’t question the orders he were given. He followed and commanded loyally, doing his part to keep those closest to him and humanity safe.
Chiefs personality in the older games, illustrated the effects of the spartan-ii program: no compasion, love, empathy. He was thrown into the military life at the age of 6, augmented at the age of 14. He only ever had Halsey as a motherly figure, hence why he is so protective of Cortana.
In Halo 4, chief breaks character and defies the direct orders of Del Rio. He had unquestionable loyalty to the UNSC and his friends: and suddenly he was forced to choose between the two. Orders or friend?
This happened once again in Halo 5, where he defied Lasky’s orders to return to infinity. I say this is only an evolution of Master Chief. He is becoming more human, thinking less as the soldier he is.
I don’t think Bungie ever called Chief a robot. They called him a cyborg, which technically is still true.
I like 343’s take on Chief. I like that he’s his own character instead of a vessel for which the player to project themselves onto. I think that showing Chief having vulnerabilities makes him far more relatable than his super-lucky, seemingly invincible self from the previous games. It makes more sense that all these continued, back-to-back high stakes scenarios would take a toll on Chief mentally, and it’s good we’re seeing that. I think the execution of how they show Chief’s vulnerability could be improved, but it shouldn’t be done away with.
I don’t understand people’s obsession with the “only make him say badass one-liners” attitude. No, his character was not “ruined” because he spoke more than usual. The sheer amount of people saying this over and over again means 343i will probably decide to have him regress back into a robot after all, and i hate that because it stifles creativity and allows zero room for any true character or plot progression. That really sucks for people like me who wanted to see his character actually go places.
OP, in many ways I agree with what you said. At the same time, I think 343i did a good job with evolving character speech during gameplay. So, in my mind, Chief is simply voicing things in Halo 4 and 5 that he would be thinking in CE-3.
If you look at the cutscenes in the old games, he still talks a fair bit and brings out some of that personality a bit. However, Bungie decided to keep him voiceless during gameplay as a design choice and one that resonates well with me to this day. 343i decided to let players know more of what’s going on between him and Cortana and that’s a good evolution to me. So the dialog is relevant to what’s going on from a mission and banter perspective without some weird and unnecessary lines where he speaks to himself to explain what’s going on to the player. It also helps cutscenes and gameplay flow better from one to the other.
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> I don’t think Bungie ever called Chief a robot. They called him a cyborg, which technically is still true.
>
> I like 343’s take on Chief. I like that he’s his own character instead of a vessel for which the player to project themselves onto. I think that showing Chief having vulnerabilities makes him far more relatable than his super-lucky, seemingly invincible self from the previous games. It makes more sense that all these continued, back-to-back high stakes scenarios would take a toll on Chief mentally, and it’s good we’re seeing that. I think the execution of how they show Chief’s vulnerability could be improved, but it shouldn’t be done away with.
He already was his own character. He is supposed to be incredibly lucky, hes the last remaining spartan 2 and the savior of humanity. Hes not mentally weak in any shape or form, was at the age of 6 years old specifically chosen and taken in and trained for this. There is no reason he should have any vulnerabilities he is the cream of the crop. Hes an 8 foot tall super soldier that was bred for combat. Hes not going to have any emotional turmoil or trauma from war. It doesnt make any sense for him to have that.
Hes a quiet reserved spartan these people are the most hardcore of the hardcore and none of them are going to have outgoing chatty personalities. Hes named after the ancient warrior spartans of laconia who are famous even 2000 years later for speaking laconic, which means only speaking when you have to, and when you do speak it being powerful. That is the essence of Spartan warriors. The more outgoing you make the chief the less of a spartan he seems to be.
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> Look at chief’s new personality, as an evolution of his character.
>
> Pre-Halo 4, chief didn’t question the orders he were given. He followed and commanded loyally, doing his part to keep those closest to him and humanity safe.
> Chiefs personality in the older games, illustrated the effects of the spartan-ii program: no compasion, love, empathy. He was thrown into the military life at the age of 6, augmented at the age of 14. He only ever had Halsey as a motherly figure, hence why he is so protective of Cortana.
>
> In Halo 4, chief breaks character and defies the direct orders of Del Rio. He had unquestionable loyalty to the UNSC and his friends: and suddenly he was forced to choose between the two. Orders or friend?
>
> This happened once again in Halo 5, where he defied Lasky’s orders to return to infinity. I say this is only an evolution of Master Chief. He is becoming more human, thinking less as the soldier he is.
Sos his character should be based off of terrible choices made to the story? 4 and 5 were huge mistakes
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> OP, in many ways I agree with what you said. At the same time, I think 343i did a good job with evolving character speech during gameplay. So, in my mind, Chief is simply voicing things in Halo 4 and 5 that he would be thinking in CE-3.
>
> If you look at the cutscenes in the old games, he still talks a fair bit and brings out some of that personality a bit. However, Bungie decided to keep him voiceless during gameplay as a design choice and one that resonates well with me to this day. 343i decided to let players know more of what’s going on between him and Cortana and that’s a good evolution to me. So the dialog is relevant to what’s going on from a mission and banter perspective without some weird and unnecessary lines where he speaks to himself to explain what’s going on to the player. It also helps cutscenes and gameplay flow better from one to the other.
The more he speaks his mind the less spartan like he becomes. He is an introvert. Being outgoing and talking more does not by default add more to the character. It just makes him seem chatty and outgoing which is not who he is
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> > 2533274824050480;5:
> > OP, in many ways I agree with what you said. At the same time, I think 343i did a good job with evolving character speech during gameplay. So, in my mind, Chief is simply voicing things in Halo 4 and 5 that he would be thinking in CE-3.
> >
> > If you look at the cutscenes in the old games, he still talks a fair bit and brings out some of that personality a bit. However, Bungie decided to keep him voiceless during gameplay as a design choice and one that resonates well with me to this day. 343i decided to let players know more of what’s going on between him and Cortana and that’s a good evolution to me. So the dialog is relevant to what’s going on from a mission and banter perspective without some weird and unnecessary lines where he speaks to himself to explain what’s going on to the player. It also helps cutscenes and gameplay flow better from one to the other.
>
> The more he speaks his mind the less spartan like he becomes. He is an introvert. Being outgoing and talking more does not by default add more to the character. It just makes him seem chatty and outgoing which is not who he is
“Introvert” doesn’t necessarily mean someone doesn’t talk. My point above was that his speech is relevant to the mission and he’s only speaking to Cortana during gameplay. If you notice, save for the last cutscene after he lost Cortana, he keeps conversations relatively short with the crew of Infinity in Halo 4. There was no instance of him, for example, high-fiving someone or having a beer with them. That would be way out of character. I agree it’s a big change from the older games, but it helps to look at this aspect of 343i’s games as an evolution rather than a revolution.
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> Hey BANGHART, please don’t post multiple times in a row; it’s a form of bumping. Instead, you can reply to multiple people in a single post. Thanks!
Im on my phone my bad. Didnt know u could do that.
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> > > 2533274824050480;5:
> > > OP, in many ways I agree with what you said. At the same time, I think 343i did a good job with evolving character speech during gameplay. So, in my mind, Chief is simply voicing things in Halo 4 and 5 that he would be thinking in CE-3.
> > >
> > > If you look at the cutscenes in the old games, he still talks a fair bit and brings out some of that personality a bit. However, Bungie decided to keep him voiceless during gameplay as a design choice and one that resonates well with me to this day. 343i decided to let players know more of what’s going on between him and Cortana and that’s a good evolution to me. So the dialog is relevant to what’s going on from a mission and banter perspective without some weird and unnecessary lines where he speaks to himself to explain what’s going on to the player. It also helps cutscenes and gameplay flow better from one to the other.
> >
> > The more he speaks his mind the less spartan like he becomes. He is an introvert. Being outgoing and talking more does not by default add more to the character. It just makes him seem chatty and outgoing which is not who he is
>
> “Introvert” doesn’t necessarily mean someone doesn’t talk. My point above was that his speech is relevant to the mission and he’s only speaking to Cortana during gameplay. If you notice, save for the last cutscene after he lost Cortana, he keeps conversations relatively short with the crew of Infinity in Halo 4. There was no instance of him, for example, high-fiving someone or having a beer with them. That would be way out of character. I agree it’s a big change from the older games, but it helps to look at this aspect of 343i’s games as an evolution rather than a revolution.
Introvert means that you talk less and are more inclined to keep your thoughts to yourself. Chief talking to cortana through the missions is jarring and like i said, not laconic. The chief doesnt speak unless he has something to say or hes been put in an extremly peculiar situation. This is not him being a robot, it is a very human personality trait
> 2535423661615819;6:
> > 2533274817408735;3:
> > I don’t think Bungie ever called Chief a robot. They called him a cyborg, which technically is still true.
> >
> > I like 343’s take on Chief. I like that he’s his own character instead of a vessel for which the player to project themselves onto. I think that showing Chief having vulnerabilities makes him far more relatable than his super-lucky, seemingly invincible self from the previous games. It makes more sense that all these continued, back-to-back high stakes scenarios would take a toll on Chief mentally, and it’s good we’re seeing that. I think the execution of how they show Chief’s vulnerability could be improved, but it shouldn’t be done away with.
>
> He already was his own character. He is supposed to be incredibly lucky, hes the last remaining spartan 2 and the savior of humanity. Hes not mentally weak in any shape or form, was at the age of 6 years old specifically chosen and taken in and trained for this. There is no reason he should have any vulnerabilities he is the cream of the crop. Hes an 8 foot tall super soldier that was bred for combat. Hes not going to have any emotional turmoil or trauma from war. It doesnt make any sense for him to have that.
>
> Hes a quiet reserved spartan these people are the most hardcore of the hardcore and none of them are going to have outgoing chatty personalities. Hes named after the ancient warrior spartans of laconia who are famous even 2000 years later for speaking laconic, which means only speaking when you have to, and when you do speak it being powerful. That is the essence of Spartan warriors. The more outgoing you make the chief the less of a spartan he seems to be.
Chief isn’t the last Spartan II, there’s at least 13 others still alive. Red Team and Gray Team are both alive, Naomi is still alive, the rest of Blue Team is (they were in Halo 5, I don’t know where you got the idea that he was the last Spartan II after playing the game), and three members of Omega team are alive. This isn’t counting Maria (retired), Musa (failed augmentations, commander-in-chief of the Spartan branch), and Serin (Head of ONI).
I actually prefer his portrayal in the 343 games since they actually treat him as a character which was something the books had been doing for quite a while that has finally made it to the games. He mostly only spoke in one liners in the original trilogy, where now his word actually reflect the character. Plus now hes reunited with blue team and the spartan II’s have always been open with each other but closed off anyone else other then halsey. Even with that said he still doesnt talk much in halo 4 or 5.
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> I actually prefer his portrayal in the 343 games since they actually treat him as a character which was something the books had been doing for quite a while that has finally made it to the games. He mostly only spoke in one liners in the original trilogy, where now his word actually reflect the character. Plus now hes reunited with blue team and the spartan II’s have always been open with each other but closed off anyone else other then halsey. Even with that said he still doesnt talk much in halo 4 or 5.
Yeah I really like the fact that 343 started giving Chief more characterization. Bungie had a good thing going with the whole “you are the Chief” mechanic, but as the franchise ages, changes are necessary to keep it fresh.
That being said, 343 did a fantastic job of characterizing Chief in H4… but in H5 it felt like they took a backwards step and made the mistake of not building on the character they expanded on in H4. Hopefully they learned some lessons through trial and error and will get it right in H6.
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> > 2533274796080930;13:
> > I actually prefer his portrayal in the 343 games since they actually treat him as a character which was something the books had been doing for quite a while that has finally made it to the games. He mostly only spoke in one liners in the original trilogy, where now his word actually reflect the character. Plus now hes reunited with blue team and the spartan II’s have always been open with each other but closed off anyone else other then halsey. Even with that said he still doesnt talk much in halo 4 or 5.
>
> Yeah I really like the fact that 343 started giving Chief more characterization. Bungie had a good thing going with the whole “you are the Chief” mechanic, but as the franchise ages, changes are necessary to keep it fresh.
>
> That being said, 343 did a fantastic job of characterizing Chief in H4… but in H5 it felt like they took a backwards step and made the mistake of not building on the character they expanded on in H4. Hopefully they learned some lessons through trial and error and will get it right in H6.
I agree, except maybe about the step backwards in halo 5. I dont neccessarily think it went backwards, more like stagnant since you really didnt spend much time with chief/blue team in the campaign to expand in a meaningful way.
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> > >
>
> I agree, except maybe about the step backwards in halo 5. I dont neccessarily think it went backwards, more like stagnant since you really didnt spend much time with chief/blue team in the campaign to expand in a meaningful way.
Even then, he wasn’t the same Chief in Halo 4 (probably because of the endless complaints like this one that he was too chatty). He barely treated his team as though they have the decades’ long history that we know. That’s the problem, the fact that 343i went backwards with him rather expanding more.
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> > > >
>
> Even then, he wasn’t the same Chief in Halo 4 (probably because of the endless complaints like this one that he was too chatty). He barely treated his team as though they have the decades’ long history that we know. That’s the problem, the fact that 343i went backwards with him rather expanding more.
I can’t say I thought he as a character was different from 4 to 5, but I agree that it was weird with the interactions with blue team on his end. blue team towards him felt accurate to me(like linda at the end stepping between him and cortana) but the other way around definitely seemed off.
That version of Chief has ran it’s course.
343 did a wonderful job with his character in Halo 4.So I’d prefer that they move forward rather than regressing.
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> > > > 2535435902217648;14:
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> > > > >
> >
> > Even then, he wasn’t the same Chief in Halo 4 (probably because of the endless complaints like this one that he was too chatty). He barely treated his team as though they have the decades’ long history that we know. That’s the problem, the fact that 343i went backwards with him rather expanding more.
>
> I can’t say I thought he as a character was different from 4 to 5, but I agree that it was weird with the interactions with blue team on his end. blue team towards him felt accurate to me(like linda at the end stepping between him and cortana) but the other way around definitely seemed off.
Linda’s protective step between Chief and Cortana was a highlight for me, but it really was only one of a few small glimpses into Blue Teams interpersonal relationships. When Fred asked Chief why Cortana brought them to Genesis, Chief basically ignores him and tells them “let’s keep moving”. Compare that to the extended lore, where Chief is far more open with his fellow Spartans. The burden of command does create a wall of separation, but that wall is permeable with certain issues.
So I do agree with you that the issue with the H5 portrayal of Chief was that he just seemed off. As a result, the rest of the interactions with him by the other members of Blue Team seemed off as well.
I don’t want this deep, over thought-out character that I’m observing. I want chief’s personality to be mine, my own. I want to be able to be immersed and believe I am him when going through the campaign. I have my own thoughts and convictions. Giving him all these extra lines and trying to develop him into something more takes me out of the game tbh.