Chateau in Halo 4?

Games Other Halo
1

Alright so I got a bit inactive after Chateau was released a year ago. Between Dark Souls, Skyrim, Armored Core, and Diablo I haven’t been around much to see opinions on Chateau. I want to know what your opinions are on the map minus the spawning because I know how bad spawning can be sometimes. And ignoring the HLG exploits.

Chateau was built to make every path meaningful in various circumstances and was intended to keep players moving through the map and ensuring that all parts of the map are played relatively equally. The higher ground is on the outer longer paths forcing a decision on speed of crossing map vs height advantage. Quicker routes existed via jump ups, but required a bit more attention to pull off. The map was originally inspired by a section of a Brink map.

Here are some specific questions that I would love to hear each of you answer if you find the time:

  • Do you feel that players are encouraged to continue moving? Another way to put it, do you see reason in each part of the map with no useless areas? Each door has a particular purpose and when I watch gameplay on Chateau I see all of the doors on the main level used fairly equally.

  • How is the weapon placement in your opinion? In particular were weapons easy to find when you first played? Are the grenade placements to your liking? Was it easy enough to find a health pack when you needed it?

  • Orientation can be a bit troublesome due to the limited ability to color pieces and the fact that the map is rotationally symmetrical… after playing the map enough were you able to figure out where you were 95% of the time?

  • With what we know of Halo 4 right now and its bump in pacing, would you be interested in seeing Chateau return in some form? Perhaps with alterations in paths (adjusting scale based on the new pacing of course)?

All of your feedback is more than welcome. Be as harsh as you like and force me to get defensive. If I can’t give a good reason to a complaint then I have more to learn. Changes will not be made to Chateau in Reach due to H4 coming out this winter. However, all of your feedback will help me not only improve a successor if one happens to show up, but it will also help me improve other maps I make as I try to incorporate and learn from feedback from prior maps in my newer creations. People said Affinity was too gray so Think Twice was blue and Chateau used the sky and grass to break up the coloring. People said Affinity and Think Twice were too simple so I began to explore more complexity without over complicating the layout. I’ve still got a lot to learn and I do it best by hearing you complain about how bad my maps suck and why. :wink:

2

> Alright so I got a bit inactive after Chateau was released a year ago. Between Dark Souls, Skyrim, Armored Core, and Diablo I haven’t been around much to see opinions on Chateau. I want to know what your opinions are on the map minus the spawning because I know how bad spawning can be sometimes. And ignoring the HLG exploits.
>
> Chateau was built to make every path meaningful in various circumstances and was intended to keep players moving through the map and ensuring that all parts of the map are played relatively equally. The higher ground is on the outer longer paths forcing a decision on speed of crossing map vs height advantage. Quicker routes existed via jump ups, but required a bit more attention to pull off. The map was originally inspired by a section of a Brink map.
>
> Here are some specific questions that I would love to hear each of you answer if you find the time:
>
> - Do you feel that players are encouraged to continue moving? Another way to put it, do you see reason in each part of the map with no useless areas? Each door has a particular purpose and when I watch gameplay on Chateau I see all of the doors on the main level used fairly equally.
>
> - How is the weapon placement in your opinion? In particular were weapons easy to find when you first played? Are the grenade placements to your liking? Was it easy enough to find a health pack when you needed it?
>
> - Orientation can be a bit troublesome due to the limited ability to color pieces and the fact that the map is rotationally symmetrical… after playing the map enough were you able to figure out where you were 95% of the time?
>
> - With what we know of Halo 4 right now and its bump in pacing, would you be interested in seeing Chateau return in some form? Perhaps with alterations in paths (adjusting scale based on the new pacing of course)?
>
>
> All of your feedback is more than welcome. Be as harsh as you like and force me to get defensive. If I can’t give a good reason to a complaint then I have more to learn. Changes will not be made to Chateau in Reach due to H4 coming out this winter. However, all of your feedback will help me not only improve a successor if one happens to show up, but it will also help me improve other maps I make as I try to incorporate and learn from feedback from prior maps in my newer creations. People said Affinity was too gray so Think Twice was blue and Chateau used the sky and grass to break up the coloring. People said Affinity and Think Twice were too simple so I began to explore more complexity without over complicating the layout. I’ve still got a lot to learn and I do it best by hearing you complain about how bad my maps suck and why. :wink:

I think that Chateau was made really well, and the weapon placement is near-perfect. I still have no idea how you got walking over floors made of block pieces to be so smooth. In terms of scale, it works really well with sprint, and the map’s ample ramps and ceilings limit its exploitability with Jetpack. Overall, it’s great, but the health-pack alcoves seem to be recessed a bit too far, making them hard to find. They should still be set far enough into the wall to provide decent cover, though. Overall, a really solid map that’s easy to play and hard to master. I give it an ‘A’.

Also, I’ve got to ask, would you be interested in co-forging an invasion map?

3

> > Alright so I got a bit inactive after Chateau was released a year ago. Between Dark Souls, Skyrim, Armored Core, and Diablo I haven’t been around much to see opinions on Chateau. I want to know what your opinions are on the map minus the spawning because I know how bad spawning can be sometimes. And ignoring the HLG exploits.
> >
> > Chateau was built to make every path meaningful in various circumstances and was intended to keep players moving through the map and ensuring that all parts of the map are played relatively equally. The higher ground is on the outer longer paths forcing a decision on speed of crossing map vs height advantage. Quicker routes existed via jump ups, but required a bit more attention to pull off. The map was originally inspired by a section of a Brink map.
> >
> > Here are some specific questions that I would love to hear each of you answer if you find the time:
> >
> > - Do you feel that players are encouraged to continue moving? Another way to put it, do you see reason in each part of the map with no useless areas? Each door has a particular purpose and when I watch gameplay on Chateau I see all of the doors on the main level used fairly equally.
> >
> > - How is the weapon placement in your opinion? In particular were weapons easy to find when you first played? Are the grenade placements to your liking? Was it easy enough to find a health pack when you needed it?
> >
> > - Orientation can be a bit troublesome due to the limited ability to color pieces and the fact that the map is rotationally symmetrical… after playing the map enough were you able to figure out where you were 95% of the time?
> >
> > - With what we know of Halo 4 right now and its bump in pacing, would you be interested in seeing Chateau return in some form? Perhaps with alterations in paths (adjusting scale based on the new pacing of course)?
> >
> >
> > All of your feedback is more than welcome. Be as harsh as you like and force me to get defensive. If I can’t give a good reason to a complaint then I have more to learn. Changes will not be made to Chateau in Reach due to H4 coming out this winter. However, all of your feedback will help me not only improve a successor if one happens to show up, but it will also help me improve other maps I make as I try to incorporate and learn from feedback from prior maps in my newer creations. People said Affinity was too gray so Think Twice was blue and Chateau used the sky and grass to break up the coloring. People said Affinity and Think Twice were too simple so I began to explore more complexity without over complicating the layout. I’ve still got a lot to learn and I do it best by hearing you complain about how bad my maps suck and why. :wink:
>
> I think that Chateau was made really well, and the weapon placement is near-perfect. I still have no idea how you got walking over floors made of block pieces to be so smooth. In terms of scale, it works really well with sprint, and the map’s ample ramps and ceilings limit its exploitability with Jetpack. Overall, it’s great, but the health-pack alcoves seem to be recessed a bit too far, making them hard to find. They should still be set far enough into the wall to provide decent cover, though. Overall, a really solid map that’s easy to play and hard to master. I give it an ‘A’.
>
> Also, I’ve got to ask, would you be interested in co-forging an invasion map?

P.S.
Think Twice was a bit too hectic for my liking, but Affinity was awesome, the few times I’ve played on it. Reminds me a bit of Rat Race from CE.

4

> I think that Chateau was made really well, and the weapon placement is near-perfect. I still have no idea how you got walking over floors made of block pieces to be so smooth. In terms of scale, it works really well with sprint, and the map’s ample ramps and ceilings limit its exploitability with Jetpack. Overall, it’s great, but the health-pack alcoves seem to be recessed a bit too far, making them hard to find. They should still be set far enough into the wall to provide decent cover, though. Overall, a really solid map that’s easy to play and hard to master. I give it an ‘A’.
>
> Also, I’ve got to ask, would you be interested in co-forging an invasion map?

Thanks for the feedback IDK. It is greatly appreciated. For the health pack alcoves I saw them as an area that you would naturally retreat to for cover when you ended an encounter around that area so my reasoning was that as you took cover there you would notice the health pack in the alcove and remember it from that point on.

As for co-forging an invasion map. I don’t plan on forging too seriously on Reach unless it is to prep a design for Halo 4. Also Invasion is my least favorite gametype of Reach. Sorry bro.

I hope to hear more feedback from others. :slight_smile:

5

> - Do you feel that players are encouraged to continue moving? Another way to put it, do you see reason in each part of the map with no useless areas? Each door has a particular purpose and when I watch gameplay on Chateau I see all of the doors on the main level used fairly equally.

no, once you’ve got control of the top floor there is no reason to move from it because it is a very easily defendable position while offering dominating lines of sight, the only reason to move from it is to control the power weapons but they’re accessed quickly from the top floor as well so you’re not gone for long, only a few secounds.

> - How is the weapon placement in your opinion? In particular were weapons easy to find when you first played? Are the grenade placements to your liking? Was it easy enough to find a health pack when you needed it?

weapon placements were fine, very intuitive positions.

> - Orientation can be a bit troublesome due to the limited ability to color pieces and the fact that the map is rotationally symmetrical… after playing the map enough were you able to figure out where you were 95% of the time?

i can never tell if i’m going from blue to red because of the lack of indicators, everything looks the same so i loose track of what side is what after a few minutes, i’ve found my self running to blue team sniper to grab it when i meant to get red teams sniper, teammate calls out and i end up looking in the completely wrong direction.

> - With what we know of Halo 4 right now and its bump in pacing, would you be interested in seeing Chateau return in some form? Perhaps with alterations in paths (adjusting scale based on the new pacing of course)?

if the top floor is removed maybe.

godly building an invasion map? LOL he hates invasion …

6

Love this map! Only problem I have with it is that the rockets spawn with 1 spare clip. 0 spare clips (just the two rockets) would work better IMO because there are many CQC areas to the map.

7

Man, I love Chateau. Every time I see it in Team Slayer I yell for it to be voted, and if it doesn’t I usually dashboard. :3

Orientation was never a trouble for me. I prefer symmetric over asymmetric maps so I can get a feel for it quick.

Right off the bat I saw rockets and knew that was the go to place to rush. Sprint works well but it’s a grenade pit there and that’s where Armor Lock helps a lot.

I just really love everything about it. It is probably the best community map I’ve played.

However, while it’s not an issue for me…maybe if you could just put some lights in the sides to distinguish which side is which for others that’d be good. I know the teams spawn in the middle between the bases, so what if you color coded the bases non team colors?

8

> no, once you’ve got control of the top floor there is no reason to move from it because it is a very easily defendable position while offering dominating lines of sight, the only reason to move from it is to control the power weapons but they’re accessed quickly from the top floor as well so you’re not gone for long, only a few secounds.

You think so? The sight lines from the top level doesn’t offer much for map control… it is a confined space. However I can see the issue of if a team wanted to hold out, the top floor is certainly a fine option to hold out. I’ve never felt that it was a dominating position. The lack of cover in the room forces players that get caught off guard to leave the room or be on the short end of an encounter. To get any real sight lines or weapons you have to leave the room which allows someone to enter from one of the 6 entrances.

Does anyone else feel that the top floor needs tweaking? I’ll keep this in mind and see if I can find a way to ease the pain of the top floor. I don’t want to completely remove it because I like the additional verticality it adds to the map and the options for path flow. Especially in CTF/Assault. Fighting from a window and across the top rooms feels good and removing the top layer means a whole set of paths need to be added to it.

What if the top floors were possibly a roof of the building instead? Keeping it open for crossfire with the pillars sticking up slightly as cover. Then there could be interactions from the balconies into each of the top levels as well.

> weapon placements were fine, very intuitive positions.

Good to hear.

> i can never tell if i’m going from blue to red because of the lack of indicators, everything looks the same so i loose track of what side is what after a few minutes, i’ve found my self running to blue team sniper to grab it when i meant to get red teams sniper, teammate calls out and i end up looking in the completely wrong direction.

That is definitely something to look into. I’m hoping H4 forge has better options to help with orientation.

> if the top floor is removed maybe.

Again I really don’t want to remove the top floor as it contains a good amount of the paths for the map. Maybe what I suggested above would work for H4… depends on how the Jetpack plays out as well.

> Love this map! Only problem I have with it is that the rockets spawn with 1 spare clip. 0 spare clips (just the two rockets) would work better IMO because there are many CQC areas to the map.

I’ll keep that in mind for H4. We’ll see how the rockets are in the final build.

> Man, I love Chateau. Every time I see it in Team Slayer I yell for it to be voted, and if it doesn’t I usually dashboard. :3
>
>
> Orientation was never a trouble for me. I prefer symmetric over asymmetric maps so I can get a feel for it quick.
>
> Right off the bat I saw rockets and knew that was the go to place to rush. Sprint works well but it’s a grenade pit there and that’s where Armor Lock helps a lot.
>
> I just really love everything about it. It is probably the best community map I’ve played.
>
>
> However, while it’s not an issue for me…maybe if you could just put some lights in the sides to distinguish which side is which for others that’d be good. I know the teams spawn in the middle between the bases, so what if you color coded the bases non team colors?

Differentiating the two bases with “side” colors rather than team colors would help. The lights weren’t incorporated for performance reasons. Thanks for all the great comments though. :slight_smile:

9

In all my handful of games on this map, I’ve yet to explore the entire breadth of it. Normally my teamates and myself dart to the right and head to the upper levels where we pick off players as they meander about on their own.

I really can’t say much on this. Affinity is alright, despite the massively open bases. Still hate Think Twice with a passion. :stuck_out_tongue:

Personally, I’d like to see your Helix map get revisited in H4. Hopefully you can make it work without frame rate this time. :smiley:

10

> > no, once you’ve got control of the top floor there is no reason to move from it because it is a very easily defendable position while offering dominating lines of sight, the only reason to move from it is to control the power weapons but they’re accessed quickly from the top floor as well so you’re not gone for long, only a few secounds.
>
> You think so? The sight lines from the top level doesn’t offer much for map control… it is a confined space. However I can see the issue of if a team wanted to hold out, the top floor is certainly a fine option to hold out. I’ve never felt that it was a dominating position. The lack of cover in the room forces players that get caught off guard to leave the room or be on the short end of an encounter. To get any real sight lines or weapons you have to leave the room which allows someone to enter from one of the 6 entrances.
>
> Does anyone else feel that the top floor needs tweaking? I’ll keep this in mind and see if I can find a way to ease the pain of the top floor. I don’t want to completely remove it because I like the additional verticality it adds to the map and the options for path flow. Especially in CTF/Assault. Fighting from a window and across the top rooms feels good and removing the top layer means a whole set of paths need to be added to it.

because the top floor is enclosed is the problem, it offers height advantage, dominating lines of sight around the map though you do have to move around to bridges and windows to get them, its very easy to sit up on the top floor poking in and out of the bridge or windows picking people off, if you get shot at just take 1 step sideways and you’re in cover, that ramp in the center from floor 2 to floor 3 made out of 2x2 flats(?) only makes quicker to get back up when going for rockets, drop down from brdige to rockets then run up that ramp and you’re on the top floor, its hard to contest people controlling it up there as well because the pathing is extremely predictable and the doorways restrict entrance, if its a team then its 1 person at a time which is easy pickings for the team controlling top floor, if a team attacks from different angles at the same time its easy to prevent, you can either group up with your teammates and take them down 1 by 1 or use those dominating lines of sight to pick at them while they’re aproaching or backing out.

> What if the top floors were possibly a roof of the building instead? Keeping it open for crossfire with the pillars sticking up slightly as cover. Then there could be interactions from the balconies into each of the top levels as well.

give it a try …