Changing a game but keeping it at its' core..

The following quotes come from the linked thread. I encourage you to read a couple of the quotes. Well thought out from some of the community.

> Major features like Forge & Theatre and significant advancements to those features.
> New gametypes which do something differently along the lines of Invasion or Infinity Slayer. But you shouldn’t make these new things be the main selling points for your game - they need to supplement the core game, not make it into something it’s not.
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> I’d rather see iteration within existing niches rather than attempts at evolving them through innovation. Innovate with brand new features, iterate on existing ones.

> Developers need to be innovative without messing with their core. Developers also need to realize their mistakes, and fix them.
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> The improvement in UI between Halo 3 and Halo: Reach was innovative and cool. The core function was still there, though.
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> Dual wielding was a mistake. It made the sandbox weaker and infringed on the triangle of Halo, so Bungie removed it.

> New weapons / nades
> New maps
> New abilities (thruster, jet pack with limited fuel, etc)
> Variety within the playlists themselves. Force variety on people. Covie slayer, Promethean Slayer as gametypes - it will force people out of their rut and probably reduce boredom.
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> CoD hasnt changed all that much since modern warfare 2 or so and people cant get enough. Don’t change the core experience.

> 1. Keep the core experience the same. Don’t try to be creative here, you wan to make Halo acessible? Don’t mess with the formula everytime a new game comes out.
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> 2. Add in stuff like fuel-limited AAs, Equipment, Invasion, even Infinity Slayer/CTF but keep them in their own niche playlists. If AAs were Invasion-only, would anyone hate on them?
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> 3. Add more and interesting maps, vehicles, gametypes, cool weapons like the GL, maybe new nades. Don’t overdo it, don’t mess with existing weapons (we’ve had 3 completely different versions of the Battle Rifle. Talk about wasted dev time). Can’t really go wrong with more new stuff (Halo 3’s Chopper, Reach’s Revenant, The Focus Rifle and the Plasma Launcher etc.)
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> 4. Don’t force any of these new additions on to the existing fanbase. That’s why Reach and H4 are such a huge letdown, you are FORCED to play with AAs and Killstreaks, and if you don’t want to you have to play Classic Playlists / Customs. Again, if there was a fine balance between vanilla Halo gameplay and playlists with new and exciting stuff, I’d actually like Instant Spawn Infinity Slayer. Why? Because it would add variety to the game, but not completely overshadow and ruin it. Imagine if H4 stayed true to the H1-H2 core gameplay, had ranked and social playlists, and some social playlists had sprint, instant spawn, Armor Abilities and Ordnance drops. Would ANYONE go on a Halo forum and bash the developer? Hell no. 343i however, decides to take everything that people like about Halo, trown in the trash and force their newly created stuff down our throats. Then they wonder about the laughable poupulation of the playlists.
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> CoD does this very well. New gametypes are in their own playlist and stay the -Yoink- out of everything else. That’s something 343i could’ve stolen from CoD. (with the spectator mode)

> Pretty much what aPK said - you keep the core and then add upon it with options, and not make those options the new core. That is what 343 and other developers fail to realize.
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> StarCraft is a perfect example. The game is, at it’s core, VERY competitive and balanced. So first, you’re pleasing that community. But then they added all these options for people to make it whatever they want, literally. You can play League of Legends (what is it, MOBA?) in StarCraft 2 if you want. So now you please EVERYONE. I mean, just look at how Grifball and Infection came to exist. You could play Skiball in Reach for -Yoink-'s sake.
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> While the core game is there, so too are the options to change it.
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> So, if that had been the case, Halo 4 could have been wildly successful. Custom loadouts and ordnance could have adde so much the game but because it was implemented poorly and because it overrode the core of the game, it blew up in everyone’s face.
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> Throwdown is an incredibly fun playlist because its as close to classic as you get. I have no desire to play anything else because of the risk of getting Infinity and having to deal with the -Yoink- it brings.
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> If 343 for to concede this defeat and overhaul Halo 4 to make all standard playlist with Throwdown or “Pro” settings and then cram Infinity into its own thing, people would come back in droves. But they’re too proud and too far gone.
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> There’s no magical fix for this game except to admit defeat and make it Halo again. Otherwise no one will buy their game.

> You must always keep your core the same, and all of your additions must complement it. Forge, Theater, etc. don’t replace or modify the way the game is played, they just allow a player to enjoy the same core game on a broader scale. Think of Super Mario Galaxy. Now, I know SMG is a single player game, but I looked for a multiplayer FPS that exemplified this, I’d have to draw from the same small pool of games everyone else does. In Super Mario Galaxy, the new pointer controls and gravity physics don’t merely coexist with the core, they provide a new way to enjoy Mario’s tried and true platforming formula.
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> A better group of examples is pretty much every 2D game that made a great jump to 3D. Zelda: OOT, Super Mario 64, Metroid Prime…all these games are radically different from their 2D predecessors, but they still “feel” like they belong to the same series.
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> Take Prime. You’re still doing the same stuff you were in the 2D games - fighting creepy monsters with power beams, using the morph ball, solving puzzles, exploring alien worlds, platforming, going back to areas with with new items…but in a 3D world. And the game’s additions compliment all this. The scanning system allows the player to get a more in-depth story about the world, the 3D map is just as useful as the 2D one, perhaps even more so since you can’t draw it on paper, and the “suit visor” perspective enhances the sense of immersion and isolation that Metroid has always been known for. It’s the same core game explored through a different lens. Oh, and it shifted to be first person also. You can dramatically change a game and freshen it and still end up with one of the most beloved games of all time.
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> For god’s sakes, Super Mario 64 added nonlinear levels and it still felt like a Mario game. Think about that - a game that was almost completely linear before opened up to exploration and it still “felt like Mario.”
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> I shouldn’t have to explain why OOT is a great Zelda game.
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> The bottom line is that all these games added complementary features to their core, but don’t render their predecessors obsolete at all. That’s pretty cool if you think about it.
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> So, what could 343 have done? Well, for starters, reverse 10 years of crap design decisions and reimplement things like ranks. That’s already enough for a fantastic game right there.
> But if they wanted to go farther, they could have changed armor abilities into map pickups that fit the new role, made some maps with interactive pieces, created a new grenade type that doesn’t play second fiddle to the original two…Spartan Ops was a good idea in this vein but it wasn’t executed very well. Spectator Mode would have been an excellent addition as well.
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> Instead, 343 opted to crap all over Halo’s core game and fly in the face of what the series is about, creating a muddled and thoroughly foreign experience.

> Gametypes like Extraction and Dominion are actually steps in the right direction. We just need them to be a larger part of the game’s focus.
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> Look at games like Assassin’s Creed. The same stuff that we loved in the first game (sweet animated sequences, compelling story, and stunning views in historical settings) is still in the newer ones, except it has been supplemented with a number of other cool features (naval battles, pickpocketing, etc.).
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> If Halo followed this formula as well, we would have an incredible game to play. All 343i has to do is give is new and cool features to drool over like:
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> -Improved Forge
> -Improved Theater
> -Spectator Mode
> -Expanded Custom Options and Gametype Selection
> -Streamlined User Interface
> -Clans
> -Streaming Services
> -New Maps
> -Improved Ranking System (ELO anybody?)
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> We don’t need radical changes in Halo’s core, we need a wider selection of features at our fingertips.

Edited by Moderator - Please do not bump/necropost threads.

*Original post, click at your own discretion.

Why must something this constructive be ignored?

> Why must something this constructive be ignored?

I’m wondering the same thing. This thread speaks truth, and a lot of it. The GDC panel outright infuriated me, but that’s not the point. Halo had it’s core is what kept people playing, what kept the games longevity. Halo is a unique franchise, Halo was meant to be that way, not creative. Halo’s core right now is like the Didacts prision being split open as he was released from it by manipulating John. It’s not solid anymore, and it being solid is what made Halo such a great franchise to begin with. If Treyach and IW has one thing right with COD, it’s keeping the core gameplay intact. Halo 4 doesn’t have that and it’s the one reason it hasn’t been successful.

> Why must something this constructive be ignored?

I like dual wielding and it was too intimidating for me to fully read.

Edit: Okay, I read most of it and agree with the majority of points. Dual wielding is still awesome though.

> > Why must something this constructive be ignored?
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> I’m wondering the same thing. This thread speaks truth, and a lot of it. The GDC panel outright infuriated me, but that’s not the point. Halo had it’s core is what kept people playing, what kept the games longevity. Halo is a unique franchise, Halo was meant to be that way, not creative. Halo’s core right now is like the Didacts prision being split open as he was released from it by manipulating John. It’s not solid anymore, and it being solid is what made Halo such a great franchise to begin with. If Treyach and IW has one thing right with COD, it’s keeping the core gameplay intact. Halo 4 doesn’t have that and it’s the one reason it hasn’t been successful.

I’m glad someone agrees.

Obviously True 100% but they don’t get it.

343 really needs to get back to halo’s roots for halo 5, otherwise it will once again fail

I agree op, too keep halo relevant does not mean make it like every fps out there. It means to stick with the formula you had and refine what you had, because you know what. Sequels are meant to play similarly, its consistency and after a while people become used to that style of gameplay.

> I agree op, too keep halo relevant does not mean make it like every fps out there. It means to stick with the formula you had and refine what you had, because you know what. Sequels are meant to play similarly, its consistency and after a while people become used to that style of gameplay.

Which is what Bungie did with Halo 2, 3, and somewhat Reach(It wasn’t completely different). I understand 343 wants to make their own game but they should have stayed away from Halo then if this is how they wanted to do it.

> 343 really needs to get back to halo’s roots for halo 5, otherwise it will once again fail

They seem to be somewhat listening according to the Q&A but only time will tell.

Here’s an example. Just look at what RedLynx did with Trials Evolution. When you compare it to Trials HD it’s almost a different game, in terms of features but plays exactly like the original. If 343 would have done this to Halo 4 there wouldn’t be peak populations of 40k but instead 200k or more.

If I could pick one thread for 343 to read, this one would be in the running.

Why Infinity wasn’t a new side playlist like invasion is beyond me.

343 needs to learn two things desperately:

  1. Options are good.
  2. Don’t replace the old with the new.

If they made these points part of their mission statement, we would still have all the old options, playlists, and features, and we would still have 343’s new vision for Halo without losing anything anyone loved about Halo. Instead we got diminished versions of everything we once had from customs to MM, and Infinity was forced down our thoughts. Seems simple to me, but apparently not so simple to 343.

I agree with some of the smaller suggestions, but I always saw Halo as a game series that never felt satisfied with itself by repeating its formula through multiple games. Changing many things with each new game is a risk, but it’s an exciting risk that allows creativity to blossom, and, ultimately, is why Halo has and will stick around for a very long time.

Yes, it is a possible option that Halo could just reship the fan favorite multiplayer repeatedly, and it could maintain a steady, consistent population. But how interesting would that be? Would the small additions be enough? Letting creativity and new ways for Halo to thrive go away? That’s not what Halo is.