Changes to the Core Halo Formula

Games Other Halo
1

I’m sure we can all agree with what I’m about to say here. I might have trouble conveying this incredibly simple message to you all, but I will try my best without thinking way too hard than I have to (which I will most definitely do in this thread).

The core Halo formula is having each individual player in a game start with the same opportunities, features, and assets.

What do I mean here?

Well, for example, in Halo 3, in a regular default Team Slayer game, each player started with an Assault Rifle, Magnum, and two grenades, along with the same jump height, shield, and other such settings; basically, everyone had access to the same exact things. In Halo: Reach, in a default Team Slayer game, everyone had access to the same exact settings, Loadouts, and more; same thing.

Please, disregard everything I just said and remember this: the Halo formula set so far for multiplayer is to have every player start with the same stuff, no matter what rank you are, no matter how much experience you have, no matter what kind of armor you are wearing, etc.; nobody has any disadvantages, and nobody has any advantages.

As you can see, I’m over-thinking this entire simple concept, but I’m sure you guys understand what I’m talking about, and I’m sure the majority of you can agree with me on this.

Now this is where I start to mention Halo 4…

What if Halo 4 changes all of this? What if players no longer start games with the same opportunities and features as everyone else in the game? What if some sort of system in place gives players more advantages and disadvantages over other players in the game?

I’m going to finish this thread off, and I hope some of you get my drift here.

I’m very optimistic about Halo 4. I’m open for change. However, how can anyone live with such a change being made to the strict Halo formula put in place by all Halos currently released, from Halo: CE, all the way to Halo: Reach? I don’t mean to make assumptions, but I feel aspects of Halo such as this very important one will somehow change.

What would you think of very important core Halo formulas like this one changing? Do you consider it a good thing? Do you consider it a horrible thing? Are you open to such changes?

2

Arena games are always better than class-based shooters in competitive. It’s not right to purposely unbalance the game when it’s so easy to keep it balanced.

3

> In Halo: Reach, in a default Team Slayer game, everyone had access to the same exact settings, Loadouts, and more; same thing.

But not everyone CHOSE the exact same settings. Most of the AAs just make the game frustrating, and many times you feel as if you’ve been cheated out of a kill because, “He was able to do this, but I wasn’t.”

4

> > In Halo: Reach, in a default Team Slayer game, everyone had access to the same exact settings, Loadouts, and more; same thing.
>
> But not everyone CHOSE the exact same settings. Most of the AAs just make the game frustrating, and many times you feel as if you’ve been cheated out of a kill because, “He was able to do this, but I wasn’t.”

This is why I strayed from the multiplayer of Reach in preference to H3. It made for each player in the game able to do certain things that others could not. That didn’t feel like Halo to me.

5

> The core Halo formula is having each individual player in a game start with the same opportunities, features, and assets.

This model falls apart as soon as one looks at the spawning on any asymmetrical map from halo CE. The “opportunities” for weapons and Terrain cannot be the same. So we must then, look elsewhere for the halo formula.

6

> Well, for example, in Halo 3, in a regular default Team Slayer game, each player started with an Assault Rifle, Magnum, and two grenades, along with the same jump height, shield, and other such settings; basically, everyone had access to the same exact things. <mark>In Halo: Reach, in a default Team Slayer game, everyone had access to the same exact settings, Loadouts, and more; same thing.</mark>

Here is where I disagree. Yes, everyone has access to the same Loadouts, but you can’t predict what other players will pick, and if you find your self fighting an opponent that has a different Armor Ability than you, depending on the situation you are in, weather you live or not is dramatically effected by the choice of Loadout you choose before you spawn.

If everyone spawns on level ground so to speak, then no matter what situation you are in, the outcome is decided by a players skill only, and not by the aid of an Armor Ability. I understand the Armor Abilities are tools and are beneficial to game-play in some situations, but so are power weapons, and you don’t get the choice to spawn with power weapons do you?

Each Armor Ability gives you an advantage and a disadvantage. Example: if you chose Armorlock, you can’t sprint, if you choose sprint, you can’t go invisible etc. So in a way, each Armor Ability has it’s own settings, giving you the ability to choose your setting at each re-spawn, resulting in advantages and or disadvantages gained before you enter the game.

It would be like choosing between stronger shields or faster running speed in Halo 3.

If Armor Abilities were set on the maps like power weapons, then everyone would have access the the same exact same things, and you can determined what people will acquire because you know what is available, and you can keep people from getting it by getting it your self, or killing a player who has one. This way everything is determined in game, and by player’s skill and knowledge, instead of player’s choice before the game starts.

7

> > The core Halo formula is having each individual player in a game start with the same opportunities, features, and assets.
>
> This model falls apart as soon as one looks at the spawning on any asymmetrical map from halo CE. The “opportunities” for weapons and Terrain cannot be the same. So we must then, look elsewhere for the halo formula.

Errr… They made people spawn the same distance away from power weapons. It’s not like Bungie was dumb enough to make red team spawn beside a rocket.

8

> > In Halo: Reach, in a default Team Slayer game, everyone had access to the same exact settings, Loadouts, and more; same thing.
>
> But not everyone CHOSE the exact same settings. Most of the AAs just make the game frustrating, and many times you feel as if you’ve been cheated out of a kill because, “He was able to do this, but I wasn’t.”

Feeling often do not reflect reality.

I’ve often felt cheated out of a kill because of a misplaced grenade or poorly fired weapon. I failed to get the kill because I sucked not because I was cheated.

9

> > Well, for example, in Halo 3, in a regular default Team Slayer game, each player started with an Assault Rifle, Magnum, and two grenades, along with the same jump height, shield, and other such settings; basically, everyone had access to the same exact things. <mark>In Halo: Reach, in a default Team Slayer game, everyone had access to the same exact settings, Loadouts, and more; same thing.</mark>
>
> Here is where I disagree. Yes, everyone has access to the same Loadouts, but you can’t predict what other players will pick, and if you find your self fighting an opponent that has a different Armor Ability than you, depending on the situation you are in, weather you live or not is dramatically effected by the choice of Loadout you choose before you spawn.
>
> If everyone spawns on level ground so to speak, then no matter what situation you are in, the outcome is decided by a players skill only, and not by the aid of an Armor Ability. I understand the Armor Abilities are tools and are beneficial to game-play in some situations, but so are power weapons, and you don’t get the choice to spawn with power weapons do you?
>
> Each Armor Ability gives you an advantage and a disadvantage. Example: if you chose Armorlock, you can’t sprint, if you choose sprint, you can’t go invisible etc. So in a way, each Armor Ability has it’s own settings, giving you the ability to choose your setting at each re-spawn, resulting in advantages and or disadvantages gained before you enter the game.
>
> It would be like choosing between stronger shields or faster running speed in Halo 3.
>
> <mark>If Armor Abilities were set on the maps like power weapons, then everyone would have access the the same exact same things, and you can determined what people will acquire because you know what is available, and you can keep people from getting it by getting it your self, or killing a player who has one. This way everything is determined in game, and by player’s skill and knowledge, instead of player’s choice before the game starts.</mark>

A GENIUS!!! (But no AL mmkay)

10

> > The core Halo formula is having each individual player in a game start with the same opportunities, features, and assets.
>
> This model falls apart as soon as one looks at the spawning on any asymmetrical map from halo CE. The “opportunities” for weapons and Terrain cannot be the same. So we must then, look elsewhere for the halo formula.

And that is why spawn placement is so crucial when it comes to making a map.

11

I couldn’t agree more with FatMArshall. Do not be like CAll of Duty, be Like Halo!

12

I don’t think a lot of people understand what I’m saying, and I can kinda understand.

All Halo multiplayer games have had this core mechanic of equal standards for every player in a match.

To help you better understand, Call of Duty does not have this core aspect. In the majority of all Call of Duty gametypes, players do not spawn with equal opportunities, features, and standards. Call of Duty gives players the ability to change the way they play in individual games with classes. Each player has different perks, weapons, etc. that are unlocked via their rank or other method.

Halo: Reach did contain this core aspect, despite some of you thinking otherwise. Just because Loadouts may have seemed “unbalanced” doesn’t mean they were in the context some of you may be referring to. Every player in the game has access to the same Loadouts, right? Even if you may state that Armor Lock is overpowered, it doesn’t necessarily mean that one player has an opportunity that other players don’t have access to in the aforementioned game. Does that other said player have access to the same exact ability? Yes.

I’ll state an example. You can have 4 Loadouts, 3 of these Loadouts are “normal and balanced” (let’s just say it’s 3 Loadouts that use an Assault Rifle), yet the fourth Loadout seems extremely more powerful than the other 3 (and let’s say this loadout uses a Sniper Rifle and a Rocket Launcher). Does that mean the players who decide to pick the said fourth Loadout have an advantage to players not using the Loadout? Yes. However, does that mean the entire game is unbalanced? No. Why? Because every player in the game has access to this Loadout, and has equal opportunity to choose that Loadout.

There’s a difference between saying one Loadout is overpowered compared to others in the set, and that the game is not giving each player the same opportunities.

Do you guys understand this?

I made this thread to see what people thought if 343i was to change this core aspect in Halo in Halo 4, whether or not they think it would be a good thing or a bad thing. The majority of my post was never made to pose any sort of argument or even discussion. I was simply asking what your thoughts are on this aspect currently in all Halo multiplayer games, which was the aspect of equal opportunity for all players in an individual game. That’s it.

13

Fancy seeing you here FatMarshall

14

> > The core Halo formula is having each individual player in a game start with the same opportunities, features, and assets.
>
> This model falls apart as soon as one looks at the spawning on any asymmetrical map from halo CE. The “opportunities” for weapons and Terrain cannot be the same. So we must then, look elsewhere for the halo formula.

I’m referring to initial start, which means after you get in the game itself, its up to the way you play to determine what happens in the game, and whether or not you find yourself in an advantage and disadvantage against another player.

I can agree with you that asymmetrical maps may pose disadvantages to some players and teams. However, that’s a whole other subject…

15

> > Well, for example, in Halo 3, in a regular default Team Slayer game, each player started with an Assault Rifle, Magnum, and two grenades, along with the same jump height, shield, and other such settings; basically, everyone had access to the same exact things. <mark>In Halo: Reach, in a default Team Slayer game, everyone had access to the same exact settings, Loadouts, and more; same thing.</mark>
>
> Here is where I disagree. Yes, everyone has access to the same Loadouts, but you can’t predict what other players will pick, and if you find your self fighting an opponent that has a different Armor Ability than you, depending on the situation you are in, weather you live or not is dramatically effected by the choice of Loadout you choose before you spawn.
>
> If everyone spawns on level ground so to speak, then no matter what situation you are in, the outcome is decided by a players skill only, and not by the aid of an Armor Ability. I understand the Armor Abilities are tools and are beneficial to game-play in some situations, but so are power weapons, and you don’t get the choice to spawn with power weapons do you?
>
> Each Armor Ability gives you an advantage and a disadvantage. Example: if you chose Armorlock, you can’t sprint, if you choose sprint, you can’t go invisible etc. So in a way, each Armor Ability has it’s own settings, giving you the ability to choose your setting at each re-spawn, resulting in advantages and or disadvantages gained before you enter the game.
>
> It would be like choosing between stronger shields or faster running speed in Halo 3.
>
> If Armor Abilities were set on the maps like power weapons, then everyone would have access the the same exact same things, and you can determined what people will acquire because you know what is available, and you can keep people from getting it by getting it your self, or killing a player who has one. This way everything is determined in game, and by player’s skill and knowledge, instead of player’s choice before the game starts.

I understand completely.

What Halo: Reach did was broaden the “equal opportunity” spectrum. Each player has access to the same Loadout, but as you said, some Loadouts have advantages and disadvantages to each other.

You’re right. Loadouts can posses unbalanced gameplay for players. That’s a fair argument.

However, don’t you think it would be a huge step if Halo 4, for example, had a class system where different Armor perks changed the way you played directly in the game? You see, its more broadening of the spectrum. Each player has the opportunity to get to a rank, to unlock a certain Armor perk, and place it in a class. See where I’m getting at? It’s just that the example I just posted? is a much, much, much bigger jump than what Loadouts are in Halo: Reach.

I hope everyone knows that I’m taking all of this feedback on Loadouts not necessarily being balanced and possessing unequal opportunities for players into account. Trust me, I am the kind of person that changes their arguments and opinion based on simple discussion and debate from those around me. I’m not ignorant.

:wink:

16

> Halo: Reach did contain this core aspect, despite some of you thinking otherwise. Just because Loadouts may have seemed “unbalanced” doesn’t mean they were in the context some of you may be referring to. Every player in the game has access to the same Loadouts, right? Even if you may state that Armor Lock is overpowered, <mark>it doesn’t necessarily mean that one player has an opportunity that other players don’t have access to</mark> in the aforementioned game. Does that other said player have access to the same exact ability? Yes.

It does actually, because you can not simply pick up an other Armor Ability, you are stuck with the one you choose from spawn until death. So you don’t have all the opportunities an other player may have because you have to die, and choose a different Loadout in order to gain different opportunities.

17

Edited by Moderator - Please refrain from making nonconstructive posts.

*Original post, click at your own discretion.

MISSION HISTORY
>LOADING:::

EXPLORE DERELICT
RING HABITAT
>COMPLETE:::

DESTROY HOSTILE
GROUND FORCES
>COMPLETE:::

NEUTRALIZE ADAPTIVE
PARASITIC LIFEFORM
>COMPLETE:::

OUTWIT ANCIENT
A.I. CONTRUCT
>COMPLETE:::

STOP DESTRUCTION
OF HUMAN RACE
>COMPLETE:::

DEFEAT THE
COVENANT
>COMPLETE:::

CREATE A STUDIO TO
MAKE MORE HALO GAMES
>COMPLETE:::

ANNOUNCE HALO 4
>COMPLETE:::

SHOW HALO 4
GAMEPLAY
>COMPLETE:::

FANBASE FREAKS
OUT
>COMEPLTE:::

ACCEPT CHANGE
>IN PROGRESS:::

18

> I’m sure we can all agree with what I’m about to say here. I might have trouble conveying this incredibly simple message to you all, but I will try my best without thinking way too hard than I have to (which I will most definitely do in this thread).
>
> The core Halo formula is having each individual player in a game start with the same opportunities, features, and assets.
>
> What do I mean here?
>
> Well, for example, in Halo 3, in a regular default Team Slayer game, each player started with an Assault Rifle, Magnum, and two grenades, along with the same jump height, shield, and other such settings; basically, everyone had access to the same exact things. <mark>In Halo: Reach, in a default Team Slayer game, everyone had access to the same exact settings, Loadouts, and more; same thing.</mark>
>
> Please, disregard everything I just said and remember this: the Halo formula set so far for multiplayer is to have every player start with the same stuff, no matter what rank you are, no matter how much experience you have, no matter what kind of armor you are wearing, etc.; nobody has any disadvantages, and nobody has any advantages.
>
> As you can see, I’m over-thinking this entire simple concept, but I’m sure you guys understand what I’m talking about, and I’m sure the majority of you can agree with me on this.
>
> Now this is where I start to mention Halo 4…
>
> What if Halo 4 changes all of this? What if players no longer start games with the same opportunities and features as everyone else in the game? What if some sort of system in place gives players more advantages and disadvantages over other players in the game?
>
> I’m going to finish this thread off, and I hope some of you get my drift here.
>
> I’m very optimistic about Halo 4. I’m open for change. However, how can anyone live with such a change being made to the strict Halo formula put in place by all Halos currently released, from Halo: CE, all the way to Halo: Reach? I don’t mean to make assumptions, but I feel aspects of Halo such as this very important one will somehow change.
>
> What would you think of very important core Halo formulas like this one changing? Do you consider it a good thing? Do you consider it a horrible thing? Are you open to such changes?

wait…wut? are you serious? one guy starts with jetpack and the other guy starts with armor lock,do you call that equal?

19

Yes, to an extent. This logic is why I’m not a fan of CoD’s multiplayer, But I can’t agree entirely, As soon as any game starts in an arena style game, that balance is thrown out the window the first time someone picks up a new weapon. Players rush weapon/powerup spawns at the beginning, and tend to camp areas nearby, turning slayer matches into boring and repetitive camp fests.

With loadouts and perks etc, players have no reason to rush and camp, and the pace of the game (in theory) benefits greatly.

And that’s not even mentioning gametypes like VIP, Juggernaut, Living Dead and more.

So really I think you should change the title to “The Core of The Halo Ranked Slayer”

20

>

> I understand completely.
>
> <mark>However, don’t you think it would be a huge step if Halo 4, for example, had a class system where different Armor perks changed the way you played directly in the game?</mark> You see, its more broadening of the spectrum. <mark>Each player has the opportunity to get to a rank, to unlock a certain Armor perk, and place it in a class.</mark> See where I’m getting at? It’s just that the example I just posted? is a much, much, much bigger jump than what Loadouts are in Halo: Reach.

It would be a huge step, and it would demolish the skill based competitive aspect of the game and turn it into whoever has the best stuff wins type of game.

Yeah, and some players have more opportunities to play the game than others and thus would have an advantage and could quite possibly beat a player with superior skill. So then people wouldn’t care to get better at the game, but would rather try to unlock everything so they can win.