Changes to make Firefight LTD more like ODST

Before Firefight was announced to return for Reach last summer, we all speculated on what we would have liked to see. Most of us wanted matchmaking and customization, but looking at those in action makes me wonder if those desires are what ruined Firefight in Reach.

I am of the opinion that Firefight was better in ODST than it is in Reach because I believe Firefight to be about tactical survival. You and your team have to work together to last endless waves of Covenant. The survival genre isn’t new to FPS (or gaming); however, it’s a nice break from Campaign and Multiplayer and I love a game that offers it on the side.

I was glad to see Firefight get more attention in Reach, but I feel that it’s for the wrong reasons. Instead of emphasizing survival, players are instead using it for easy cR and kill-farming. Due to the laggier netcode, players would rather vote for games with explosive ordnance, as it is easier to use under stressed conditions. Firefight went from survival to “how many grunts can I rocket, and how many times can I do it a day before I rank up?”.

Obviously neither Bungie nor 343i are going to change the core FF experience. They feel that FF has evolved and the ‘arcade’ version is the standard for Reach. That’s fine and all, but fans of ODST’s version essentially got alienated. Firefight Limited fails to hearken back to the more classic experience, so with this thread I’m hoping my proposed changes for Firefight Limited will be able to satisfy players’ grunty thirst for ODST’s version.

Emphasis on Survival
In ODST, you had a limited number of lives to share between your team. Because your survival was critical to the combined strength of your team, players usually played tactically and worked with each other. Allotted lives are enough to force a player to change their playing style for fear of being eliminated, so it’s imperative that Firefight Limited maintains this setting. However, there are griefers (the true trolls by the way, which I am not) who go into FF LTD just to die and cause their team to be eliminated.

So to prevent this, each player should have 3 lives for the round. In ODST, you usually only invited people you knew to play with you (or people who wanted to survive for Endure). In a matchmaking setting, you aren’t going to get people with your same goal all the time, so your teammates wont always want to survive (or be capable of doing so). By distributing lives to each player, it ensures that each person plays smart lest they be eliminated for the round. This also means friendly fire remains off (which was ridiculous to have been overlooked by Bungie in the first place).

Weapons
In ODST, each person started with an SMG and Pistol (or sniper on Windward). These weapons are capable of getting kills if used properly, but for the most part you’ll need to pick up weapons the Covenant drop. You could only replenish these weapons a finite amount of times before the cache ran out, meaning you had to conserve ammo and juggle extra weapons back to your reserve. By allowing players to start with DMRs, Grenade Launchers, and other weapons, we decrease the need to pick up other weapons. Most people start with the DMR and pick off the Covenant from long range, which leads to selfish, shooting gallery type gameplay. In order to fully replicate the ODST experience, the only loadout for Firefight Limited should be AR/Pistol starts. The pistol is headshot capable, but you’ll have to pick up NRs from Jackals or DMRs from heretics if you want something stronger than it. The default AA should be Sprint.

The infinite ammo crates can stay because the Pistol will run out of rounds very quickly. This will allow players to replenish their starting ammo if they are unable to pick up other weapons. I’d personally rather see finite ammo crates; unfortunately, Firefight maps are not-configurable and I do not believe such a setting could be enabled with a newly scripted gametype. If they could be configured, I’d also like to see drop shields as pick ups.

The last weapon change I would suggest is to remove the Target Locator and Fuel Rod Grunts. Not only are FRGrunts annoying, but they come rather frequently, meaning explosive ordnance is always in surplus. We don’t want to make killing the Covenant too easy, so they will have to go. Everybody on the team shouldn’t have a FRG after wave 3.

Enemies
One reason people love Zombies in Black Ops is because after a certain time, the zombies cam swarm and overwhelm you. The frantic pace of the game mode gets players’ adrenaline running, which ODST also managed to accomplish at times. Firefight Limited needs to emulate that feeling of being overwhelmed, and to do this we’ll need to switch the enemies around. We need more Elites and less Jackals. We need more Chieftans and less FRGrunts. We need more Hunters and less Skirmishers spraying Needlers at us. In fact, I’d like to see nearly all of the Needler enemies eliminated entirely, as it does not provide any immediate danger and instead comes off as an annoyance. We need more aggressive and more deadly enemies so we are constantly on our toes.

The Covenant need to be intimidating, and I frankly don’t see it happening when a bunch of Jackals and Grunts are waddling their way towards me with Plasma Pistols. By making the Covenant more intimidating and deadly, players will be encouraged to work together and develop tactics and strategies in order to best slay them. We’ll see less running and gunning and more barricading and holding our defenses. Firefight will become about survival like ODST’s was.

Population
Logically, making Firefight Limited more difficult will turn off some players, correct? After all, it is not as popular as the other firefight playlists. Thankfully, we’ve learned how much of an influence credits can have on a player’s playlist choice, which is why I propose Firefight Limited offers cR jackpots and double cR earn per game from now on. With this change, more people will be able to experience the new Firefight experience. The survival based gameplay will provide a challenge that true firefight players and those simply in for the credits will enjoy.


I loved the cooperative atmosphere of ODST firefight. I completed Endure dozens of times on all of the maps and I loved every minute of it. It was a blast working with my buddies to survive the onslaught of aliens, so I’m hoping to someday see the Firefight experience in Reach hearken back to those days. If you also feel the same way, support this thread with your opinions about Firefight.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, I personally found ODST firefight more entertaining because it focused more on survival.

I’m not to sure about infinite ammo crates though, I think they take away the emphasis of survival and cooperation.

Completely in agreement.

Yeah I get where you are coming from.

Honestly I used to only play firefight in Reach to rack up credits, and Gruntapocolipse did that, however now that I have reached General Grade 4 I can say that its a really boring game. Firefight Limited is the only thing I really want to play now (Every once in a while Arcade just for a little goofing off with my buddies)

Really though I don’t like the idea of ordanance that much, I mean getting a target locater for free, come on I think if 343i is going to do this in the future they should have a points system in the games like zombies where you go to a UNSC computer near your spawn in the base and cash in (In-game Credits) for more ammo when you run out or a random ordanance, and finally you could choose the ordanance but for double the money. So at least in the next game you have a twist of both sides, and also there should be the option to turn all of that off, and also and option to choose what type of enemies you want spawning and what round so like Round 1-Brutes, Jackatls, Grunts, Round 2- Brutes, Hunters, Grunts, Wraith Round 3- Elites, Brutes, grunts Round 4- Brute Leaders, Elites, Jackals, Ghost, Wraith and so on

So you can really make it as challenging or easy as possible!

Sounds good to me. Unfortunately (like you mentioned) cR and even Challenges completely affect the way we play now. People want to feel like they aren’t wasting their time on games that don’t feed them cR (i.e. customs). The “if Im going to play, I might as well try to earn as many credits as I can” mentality is what has changed the way people play Reach vs ODST and H3 so drastically.

I do like your proposed changes to help alleviate this problem of ‘I have to be the first guy on the spot with the FRG to get the quick overkill, hoping to get my commendations up and knock out that FF challenge quickly.’ The whole ‘feel’ of FF has changed. No one in ODST’s FF cared about rank or exp because it wasn’t affected. It was all about ‘let’s see how far we can get.’ We can still do this in Reach but people would rather be playing MM FF where thet can earn tons of credits. Your suggestions would help.

I agree with pretty much everything, specially when you mention these enemies being an annoyance rather than a threat. Shield jackals weren’t so frequent in ODST, and back then we had Brutes all over the place. Tons of Brutes.

More than anything, I would like to see a Brute-focused firefight back, but the Needlers make this impossible and ridiculously easy. Needle weaponry being so effective against Brutes has screwed things up to me. Too many Needle Rifles and Needlers all over the place, godly overpowerded against them.

I personally wouldn’t like too many Elites, or at least not Heretics. They are really overpowered in my opinion, and the red Sniper/Rocket one is annoying as hell. It would be nice to have Rangers and Ultras though, which I consider the most “balanced”, and also Generals, but not those limited Plasma Launcher ones, I mean the real FRG/Sword Generals who can kill you in one hit. Now that’s a threat.

I miss Brutes. I miss Firefight.

They should have made an ODST gametype for FF, and they should have scored Credits like so…

for each set you would get more credits… (On heroic),

1st set = 300 credits awarded
2nd set = 600 credits awarded
3rd set = 1000 credits awarded
4th set = 1500 credits awarded
5th set = 3000 credits awarded
6th set = 4000 CR
7th set = 5,500 CR
8th set = 7000 CR
9th set = 9000 CR
10th set = 13000 CR

This would make players strive to survive and come up with stratedgies, all of which is REALLY fun! funner than simply blowing off the heads of enemies, and if you played survival modes in other games you would know that that is true.

They should also implement This as an Option

I agree with what you say on ODST’s Firefight, however I believe that it should improve on Reach in Halo 4, not take 2 steps backwards.

Why?

Because Reach’s Firefight is fun and very hard, like ODSTs. And had a tonne of customization.

You obviously haven’t played against Sanghelli Generals on LASO Difficulty… have you?

That is 20 times harder than ODST. Although with 99 lives it is possible to complete a set.

The main reason is actually the fact that customization is plentiful.

If there is a insane amount of customization in Halo 4, then everyone would be happy.

You could design gametypes, enemies, weapons, damage etc.

Hopefully Forge expands to Firefight as well.

I disagree with the Halo 3.5 or Halo ODST 2.0 Ideas.

But they are both fun and have merits in certain areas.

Idea for next topic: Forge.

Halo Fan Forever on Bungie.net

Agreed, count me in if you want a test subject. My GT is Weaseleon.

Firefight has always been pretty boring to me, and I know it’s not just because it’s a survival gametype. I really enjoyed WaW zombies and now Black Op’s zombies, and it was always because of the teamwork and the sense of fear you had. You locked down a position, and you really had to rely on your teammates because if one of them screwed up, your game was over. There was also an interesting meta-game with the points system.

In FF, I feel overwhelmed, but not in a good way. I feel like there’s an endless amount of plasma grenades being thrown at me, and FRG is always flying at me. Most of the enemies feel like bullet sponges on higher difficulties, but on lower difficulties they simply don’t fight back. I constantly feel overwhelmed and the game just isn’t fun or entertaining.

> Firefight has always been pretty boring to me, and I know it’s not just because it’s a survival gametype. I really enjoyed WaW zombies and now Black Op’s zombies, and it was always because of the teamwork and the sense of fear you had. You locked down a position, and you really had to rely on your teammates because if one of them screwed up, your game was over. There was also an interesting meta-game with the points system.
>
> In FF, I feel overwhelmed, but not in a good way. I feel like there’s an endless amount of plasma grenades being thrown at me, and FRG is always flying at me. Most of the enemies feel like bullet sponges on higher difficulties, but on lower difficulties they simply don’t fight back. I constantly feel overwhelmed and the game just isn’t fun or entertaining.

I see what you are saying, dog… That is true. But have you ever played ODST on Normal? thats pretty, well uh, normal difficulty and what you described doesn’t really happen

> > Firefight has always been pretty boring to me, and I know it’s not just because it’s a survival gametype. I really enjoyed WaW zombies and now Black Op’s zombies, and it was always because of the teamwork and the sense of fear you had. You locked down a position, and you really had to rely on your teammates because if one of them screwed up, your game was over. There was also an interesting meta-game with the points system.
> >
> > In FF, I feel overwhelmed, but not in a good way. I feel like there’s an endless amount of plasma grenades being thrown at me, and FRG is always flying at me. Most of the enemies feel like bullet sponges on higher difficulties, but on lower difficulties they simply don’t fight back. I constantly feel overwhelmed and the game just isn’t fun or entertaining.
>
> I see what you are saying, dog… That is true. But have you ever played ODST on Normal? thats pretty, well uh, normal difficulty and what you described doesn’t really happen

Yes ODST was much better, but I still get bored during it. That was mostly due to the fact that once you ran out of your SMG and pistol, you had to use boring weapons like the Halo 3 plasma pistol and the brute plasma rifle.

> > > Firefight has always been pretty boring to me, and I know it’s not just because it’s a survival gametype. I really enjoyed WaW zombies and now Black Op’s zombies, and it was always because of the teamwork and the sense of fear you had. You locked down a position, and you really had to rely on your teammates because if one of them screwed up, your game was over. There was also an interesting meta-game with the points system.
> > >
> > > In FF, I feel overwhelmed, but not in a good way. I feel like there’s an endless amount of plasma grenades being thrown at me, and FRG is always flying at me. Most of the enemies feel like bullet sponges on higher difficulties, but on lower difficulties they simply don’t fight back. I constantly feel overwhelmed and the game just isn’t fun or entertaining.
> >
> > I see what you are saying, dog… That is true. But have you ever played ODST on Normal? thats pretty, well uh, normal difficulty and what you described doesn’t really happen
>
> Yes ODST was much better, but I still get bored during it. That was mostly due to the fact that once you ran out of your SMG and pistol, you had to use boring weapons like the Halo 3 plasma pistol and the brute plasma rifle.

That’s why the set weapon spawns in ODST were so great! I like the idea of weapon drops, but they should also include sometimes just an ammo supply instead of a completely new weapon. What would you guys think of sometimes a weapon drop be an ammo drop?

I wont be able to test this in its entirety because I can’t enable individual lives. That’s something some sort of update will have to do. I can test everything else though.

look at you, you got your own following over here too.

O.T. nope i like it how it is. mindless killing of the convenant for lots of cR. leave it as it and don’t please the complainers.

Reach FF bores me to death, I only go on it for credits.

> look at you, you got your own following over here too.
>
> O.T. nope i like it how it is. mindless killing of the convenant for lots of cR. leave it as it and don’t please the complainers.

There are 2 main Firefight offerings: FF Arcade and FF Limited. Arcade is for your ‘mindless killing for lots of cR’. Limited is supposed to represent a more classic experience akin to ODST’s earlier version.

Right now it’s not doing that, and I’m proposing suggestions to make it so it does.

You don’t have to dismiss ideas just because you don’t like the way I post. Leave that crap on B.net.

These changes would not even affect you.

I was JUST thinking this last night. ODST’s Firefight was AWESOME. Reach’s Firefight is more about getting kills and points then the fun of survival.

Another problem with FF aside from the gametype issue is the lag. Sniper fight and other gametypes are difficult to play because of input lag, which is why people prefer to play FRG and Rocket gametypes.

Hopefully something is done about the lag the game gets patched.

As someone who loved ODST’s firefight, I’d love to see this as a new change. So long as the only AA is sprint and dropshield as a pickup, this could work nicely.