Change SWAT back to Kill-base scoring

Games Other Halo
1

I might be repeating a dead issue here but the Swat “scoring” method needs to eliminated. Here’s why:

The current scoring method allows literally terrible players to score the highest points. I just played a game and the opponent received 300 points yet he had 21 kills and 23 deaths. Meanwhile I had 17 kills and 12 deaths yet scored only 160.

This system is rewarding individual achievements in a TEAM based game. This doesn’t work. If you score a 2nd touchdown in the NFL do you receive 9 points instead of 6? Or if you block a Field Goal and return it for a touchdown do you receive 11 points?

The answer is no. Just switch Swat back to 50 kills equals the win. Individual achievements such as double kills, kills via assassination, overkills and other INDIVIDUAL achievements should be reflected on the player ONLY, not the outcome of the game which a team is involved.

2

> The current scoring method allows literally terrible players to score the highest points.

If they are so terrible, how did they win?

> This system is rewarding individual achievements in a TEAM based game.

That’s how Slayer worked in H3, they reward your individual achievement. Your kill bumps the score up one. They rewarded your individual achievement.

3

> > The current scoring method allows literally terrible players to score the highest points.
>
> If they are so terrible, how did they win?
>
>
>
> > This system is rewarding individual achievements in a TEAM based game.
>
> That’s how Slayer worked in H3, they reward your individual achievement. Your kill bumps the score up one. They rewarded your individual achievement.

Ok. I’ll explain in detail. Your second quote is not relevant as this pertains to the game of SWAT-Not slayer.

In response to your first question:
The opponent scored 21 kills yet died 23 times. That is a Kill/Death ratio of -2. However my score was 17 kills and 12 deaths. A kill/death ratio of +5. In a team based game, I played better than my opponent. However, he received 300 points and I received 160. He received 140 more points than I for a combination of items including assassination kills, double kills, Revenge kills and other points.

In previous versions of Halo Swat the game of Swat was based on 50 kills by a team to win. Now, however, a player who used to receive awards on an individual basis for items such as double kills, overkills ect is affecting the overall score of the game itself.

To simplify even further and pose a question to you: Should the game be based on total POINTS via special achievements or achieving the main objective of the game-kill the opposing team? My argument is for the latter and here is why:

All previous versions of Halo Swat was not based on individual achievements but the collective achievement of the main objective of the game. The current point system perpetuates the “achievements” of the player over the base goal of the game, thus creating the current version of Halo Swat into an individual-based game rather a team game.

4

> > > The current scoring method allows literally terrible players to score the highest points.
> >
> > If they are so terrible, how did they win?
> >
> >
> >
> > > This system is rewarding individual achievements in a TEAM based game.
> >
> > That’s how Slayer worked in H3, they reward your individual achievement. Your kill bumps the score up one. They rewarded your individual achievement.
>
> Ok. I’ll explain in detail. Your second quote is not relevant as this pertains to the game of SWAT-Not slayer.

How is it not relevant? SWAT and Slayer are still scored the same way - if an individual kills another player, that individual’s team’s score as a whole increases.

> In response to your first question:
> The opponent scored 21 kills yet died 23 times. That is a Kill/Death ratio of -2. However my score was 17 kills and 12 deaths. A kill/death ratio of +5. In a team based game, I played better than my opponent. However, he received 300 points and I received 160. He received 140 more points than I for a combination of items including assassination kills, double kills, Revenge kills and other points.

Apologies if this completely misses your point, but if the game’s scoreboard were to revert to being oriented by kills alone, the player with the -2 K/D would still be higher up on the scoreboard than you, the player with the +5.

> Now, however, a player who used to receive awards on an individual basis for items such as double kills, overkills ect is affecting the overall score of the game itself.

No, they don’t. To use this video as an example, the player, over the entire course of the video, accumulates 190 points. At the very beginning of the video, you can see that the score is 430. 430 + 190 = 620, which is 20 more than what is required to win the game. However, at the end of the video, you can see that the score is only at 530. The game only added 10 points to the scoreboard per kill, and since the player killed nine players in that scope of time, and a teammate killed another, that’s a total of 100, which is by how much the score increased from the beginning to the end.

> To simplify even further and pose a question to you: Should the game be based on total POINTS via special achievements or achieving the main objective of the game-kill the opposing team? My argument is for the latter and here is why:
>
> All previous versions of Halo Swat was not based on individual achievements but the collective achievement of the main objective of the game. The current point system perpetuates the “achievements” of the player over the base goal of the game, thus creating the current version of Halo Swat into an individual-based game rather a team game.

Agreed, but that hasn’t changed in Halo 4 from previous versions!

5

> > > > The current scoring method allows literally terrible players to score the highest points.
> > >
> > > If they are so terrible, how did they win?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > This system is rewarding individual achievements in a TEAM based game.
> > >
> > > That’s how Slayer worked in H3, they reward your individual achievement. Your kill bumps the score up one. They rewarded your individual achievement.
> >
> > Ok. I’ll explain in detail. Your second quote is not relevant as this pertains to the game of SWAT-Not slayer.
>
> How is it not relevant? SWAT and Slayer are still scored the same way - if an individual kills another player, that individual’s team’s score as a whole increases.
>
>
>
> > In response to your first question:
> > The opponent scored 21 kills yet died 23 times. That is a Kill/Death ratio of -2. However my score was 17 kills and 12 deaths. A kill/death ratio of +5. In a team based game, I played better than my opponent. However, he received 300 points and I received 160. He received 140 more points than I for a combination of items including assassination kills, double kills, Revenge kills and other points.
>
> Apologies if this completely misses your point, but if the game’s scoreboard were to revert to being oriented by kills alone, the player with the -2 K/D would still be higher up on the scoreboard than you, the player with the +5.
>
>
>
> > Now, however, a player who used to receive awards on an individual basis for items such as double kills, overkills ect is affecting the overall score of the game itself.
>
> No, they don’t. To use this video as an example, the player, over the entire course of the video, accumulates 190 points. At the very beginning of the video, you can see that the score is 430. 430 + 190 = 620, which is 20 more than what is required to win the game. However, at the end of the video, you can see that the score is only at 530. The game only added 10 points to the scoreboard per kill, and since the player killed nine players in that scope of time, and a teammate killed another, that’s a total of 100, which is by how much the score increased from the beginning to the end.
>
>
>
> > To simplify even further and pose a question to you: Should the game be based on total POINTS via special achievements or achieving the main objective of the game-kill the opposing team? My argument is for the latter and here is why:
> >
> > All previous versions of Halo Swat was not based on individual achievements but the collective achievement of the main objective of the game. The current point system perpetuates the “achievements” of the player over the base goal of the game, thus creating the current version of Halo Swat into an individual-based game rather a team game.
>
> Agreed, but that hasn’t changed in Halo 4 from previous versions!

Ok that video was most intriguing I must say. However I must be confused or not seeing something clearly here then.
The game I reference whereas my opponent scored 21 deaths yet died 23 times scored a total of 140 more points than I. That was only 4 more kills to my 17 kills and 160. Putting the K/O ratio to bed which I agree never has factored into the game scoring, but I used as an example that I was simply more productive as a team member-it still shows that some achievements are being counted. If one kill equals 10 points, thus giving him 40 more points, his total point score should of been 210 to my 170. (17X10 and 21X10) So that’s 90 points that I’m assuming is being given to him and his team for something else, and I’m assuming it’s achievements such as “revenge” or “first strike”. However the final count doesn’t make sense still seeing I scored 160. I believe you lose 10 points if you commit suicide, I’m not sure, and I recollect that may of occurred so that would explain my 160 instead of 170.

See this is my base argument. It is now so confusing-plus the fact 343 doesn’t bother to explain anything is why Swat needs to go back to the most basic of terms-50 kills to win.
Points and achievements are fine, but not in this playlist. This is a classic case of over-thinking on the part of 343.

6

> See this is my base argument. It is now so confusing-plus the fact 343 doesn’t bother to explain anything is why Swat needs to go back to the most basic of terms-50 kills to win.

I thought that from the get go, you wanted SWAT to go back to kill based scoring because your opponent won with a negative K/D.

I look at it this way: Pulling off a double kill, even in SWAT, is no small feat. He, and by extension his team, is/are being rewarded for that skill. Why shouldn’t he be rewarded for being a good player?

7

I thought SWAT’s team scoring was based on straight kills…
Am I missing something here?

I thought individual scores NEVER add onto team scores, so who cares if the other guy got more style medals than you.

Have I missread the scoring system for nearly 2 months?

8

> I thought SWAT’s team scoring was based on straight kills…
> Am I missing something here?
>
> I thought individual scores NEVER add onto team scores, so who cares if the other guy got more style medals than you.
>
> Have I missread the scoring system for nearly 2 months?

You are missing nothing. It is kill based, with ten points being rewarded per kill. Extras (i.e. Streak Kills, assists, etc) are added to individual scores and not the team score necessary for victory. In the case of OP’s scenario, the other guy scored 600 points for himself (towards his spartan rank) while scoring 210 points for the team.

9

> Individual achievements such as double kills, kills via assassination, overkills and other INDIVIDUAL achievements should be reflected on the player ONLY, not the outcome of the game which a team is involved.

They are.

You have a Team Score and a Personal Score.

Team Score is kills only. Personal Score includes other performance-based factors like double kills, sprees etc.

You can go blue in the face arguing that maybe the personal score over-rewards some behaviours if you like, but it has no affect on the outcome of the game. Many other games do this: Battlefield and Call of Duty to name two.

10

> > The current scoring method allows literally terrible players to score the highest points.
>
> If they are so terrible, how did they win?
>
>
>
> > This system is rewarding individual achievements in a TEAM based game.
>
> That’s how Slayer worked in H3, they reward your individual achievement. Your kill bumps the score up one. They rewarded your individual achievement.

Smh…

OT: it’s my understanding that in all of these team gametypes where it’s points rather than raw score, individual scores don’t actually change the team score. Meaning, in SWAT, your team score is actually based off of kills alone, and not the sum of all individual scores. I could be wrong, but it just seems to be something I’ve noticed. Feel free to go back a check.

11

> > I thought SWAT’s team scoring was based on straight kills…
> > Am I missing something here?
> >
> > I thought individual scores NEVER add onto team scores, so who cares if the other guy got more style medals than you.
> >
> > Have I missread the scoring system for nearly 2 months?
>
> You are missing nothing. It is kill based, with ten points being rewarded per kill. Extras (i.e. Streak Kills, assists, etc) are added to individual scores and not the team score necessary for victory. In the case of OP’s scenario, the other guy scored 600 points for himself (towards his spartan rank) while scoring 210 points for the team.

Oh wow, I get that now I thought the extra Revenge points (15 xp if you get revenge) went to your team score. So the raw kill, the ten points, gets added to the teams score. And the… Added points get put on your personal score. Ok thanks, took me a while.

12

> Smh…

:smiley:

> I could be wrong, but it just seems to be something I’ve noticed. Feel free to go back a check.

You’re not.

Personal score doesn’t effect the team score.

13

Ok so I see now where I was confused. However this is actually more atrocious than I originally thought!

The confusion I had here was I was assuming the opponent’s points where being added onto the team score-which is not the case as I have learned. Again-I have no problem with personal achievement points within the game itself.

The issue comes down to how it is presented. If you state the game is based on points, then when I’m accumulating “points” i’m assuming they are being added onto the team score which is not the case.

So as it boils down to it-and my thread originally asked for-just base the GAME ACHIEVEMENT as 60 kills to win. Having two separate point systems occurring simultaneously is truly confusing and overall POINTLESS (see what I did there!) if the in-game points system is static and never changes. However-maybe I’m missing something? Is there a way to get more than 10 points (or 5) within the Game score itself? I know suicide is -10 points.

See. This is ridiculous. Just change it to 60 kills to win. Suicide-you lose a kill.
It shouldn’t need to be this complicated.

14

> Ok so I see now where I was confused. However this is actually more atrocious than I originally thought!
>
> The confusion I had here was I was assuming the opponent’s points where being added onto the team score-which is not the case as I have learned. Again-I have no problem with personal achievement points within the game itself.
>
> The issue comes down to how it is presented. If you state the game is based on points, then when I’m accumulating “points” i’m assuming they are being added onto the team score which is not the case.
>
> So as it boils down to it-and my thread originally asked for-just base the GAME ACHIEVEMENT as 60 kills to win. Having two separate point systems occurring simultaneously is truly confusing and overall POINTLESS (see what I did there!) if the in-game points system is static and never changes. However-maybe I’m missing something? Is there a way to get more than 10 points (or 5) within the Game score itself? I know suicide is -10 points.
>
> See. This is ridiculous. Just change it to 60 kills to win. Suicide-you lose a kill.
> It shouldn’t need to be this complicated.

I completely agree that it is confusing at first, but as soon as you know what’s going on, it makes sense. Individual number of kills is readily visible, as is personal score, on the main leaderboard.

It IS “60 kills to win” already. The personal scores are just an added thing to see what kind of player you are. Are you a dry killer, or do you have style and trickery? Straight up kills is still reflected on the main leaderboard so it’s easy to see.

15

Why are there assists in SWAT anyway? Headshots only correct? Or did 343 ruin that as well?

16

> Why are there assists in SWAT anyway? Headshots only correct? Or did 343 ruin that as well?

I have to wonder if 343 can even get a fair shake around here anymore. Or could 343 lay a golden egg and people would complain about how it’s not softboiled?

You have ALWAYS been able to kill a player through bodyshots in SWAT. It’s extremely ineffective, ineffecient, and will likely end up with you dead, even if dropping on the player from behind, with a bullet bouncing around the inside of your skull like an ADD kid hopped up on sugar inside a bouncy castle.

And you’ve been rewarded for Assists, even in SWAT, since Reach when Bungie started rewarding them. The only thing that changed is that the threshold for Assists is lower in H4 than it was in Reach. In Reach you had to deal 40%(60%?) of your target’s total health and have your teamate(s) clean up the kill within ~5 seconds. That came out to three bodyshots or so before you could even qualify for an assist. In H4, you can tag a person with one bodyshot and get an Assist from that.

So.

You’re welcome.

Thanks for not jumping to conclusions and jumping on anyone’s back before understanding the situation.

17

Only kills count towards your score in team variants as far as I can tell, add up the winning teams kills put a 0 on it and that’s your teams score, individual scores always add up to more then the teams score and depend on the medals you managed to aquire, also they fill your ordinance meter

They could have saved the confusion by just counting kills as always but once you figure it out it’s the same as it always has been, I’ve gotten 400+ points in a ctf game to 5

18

Just like all slayer gametypes in H4 SWAT is a first to 60 kills game. Your individual score does not effect your team score, only your kills do.

19

Yeah having team points and player points use the same general name but not actually be connected in a meaningful way was a confusing design choice, not helped at all by the refusal to make a game manual.

I haven’t checked in a while but I don’t actually believe suicides/betrayals subtract anything from your team score anymore; not even sure if it subtracts from player scores either.

20

> I might be repeating a dead issue here but the Swat “scoring” method needs to eliminated. Here’s why:
>
> The current scoring method allows literally terrible players to score the highest points. I just played a game and the opponent received 300 points yet he had 21 kills and 23 deaths. Meanwhile I had 17 kills and 12 deaths yet scored only 160.
>
> This system is rewarding individual achievements in a TEAM based game. This doesn’t work. If you score a 2nd touchdown in the NFL do you receive 9 points instead of 6? Or if you block a Field Goal and return it for a touchdown do you receive 11 points?
>
> The answer is no. Just switch Swat back to 50 kills equals the win. Individual achievements such as double kills, kills via assassination, overkills and other INDIVIDUAL achievements should be reflected on the player ONLY, not the outcome of the game which a team is involved.

The problem with this is that your analysis in incorrect. The points don’t add up to 600. You still have to get 60 kills as a team to win. Th extra points you get from double kills don’t go towards your teams score. If you add up the total points individuals on a team have it is more than 600. You get 10 points for a kill and have to get 60 kills to win.