> > To my knowledge, this is the very first time any Halo game has had an addition like this. The engine has never been set up to allow developers to just force global content into it post-release – all assets are stored per-map, and while one map can borrow assets from another, these links are set in stone when the maps are released – so this DLC and TU exist in uncharted territory.
>
> Well uncharted as far as this franchise is concerned. It’s worrying that we’re still running back to the same “map-content-loading” issue that bungie cited in 2007 for why we couldn’t have DLC armor then when even the small jobs (like WH4k: Space Marine) don’t seem to have any issue developing DLC armor or any sort of global DLC for multiplayer and co-op. Sure, different games from different devs with different technical capabilities but that’s not so much of a reason or excuse, but instead a spotlight on where the issue probably is.
343i never explained how they were able to add DLC armor where it was never possible before, and they’ve yet to explain why the DLC armor is available in War Games, but not Spartan Ops. All they’ve said is “The Champions DLC content is not available in Spartan Ops”, but they never tell us WHY.
Unless they intend to fix the problem with the new content in the long run, they really outta put a disclaimer or something on the Championship DLC Bundle on XBL Marketplace; you know, to let people know that the content is exclusive to War Games?
Think of how many people must have bought the bundle since release, only to be disappointed like we were.
I’m one of those many that bought the bundle only to be disappointed.
I’m sure this will gain more attention once the Global Championship is over. A good majority of the employees are still in Germany for the whole of the event. Us less competitive folks gotta just wait a bit.
I’ve been checking everyday since release to see if an update might be released un-announced but nothing yet.
My money is on the current employee business is Germany.
> 343i never explained how they were able to add DLC armor where it was never possible before, and they’ve yet to explain why the DLC armor is available in War Games, but not Spartan Ops. All they’ve said is “The Champions DLC content is not available in Spartan Ops”, but they never tell us WHY.
>
> Unless they intend to fix the problem with the new content in the long run, they really outta put a disclaimer or something on the Championship DLC Bundle on XBL Marketplace; you know, to let people know that the content is exclusive to War Games?
>
> Think of how many people must have bought the bundle since release, only to be disappointed like we were.
Well yah you’re definitely right. They didn’t say anything technical about SOPS and armor and I did just try to update my post so it doesn’t seem like I’m advocating map-asset issues as the certain explanation for why new DLC doesn’t work in SOPS. (that wasn’t my intention.)
My point is basically that this being an issue in the first place (when the conversation started so long ago and when so many other developers seem to have moved past it) is deeply concerning. And the other side to this you’ve hit on the head, no disclaimer. 343 tries to make this game look like a community effort between their various collaborations and what’s promoted on the front page of this website but where the hell is the basic decency and respect that should underpin that relationship and more importantly the business that generates?
We should know what we’re getting ourselves into (in a technical sense) before we put down our money but 343 has, in this case, acted with all the scruples of a used Daewoo salesman. “Here’s this wonderful DLC” they said. “Hey, that looks cool” some of us responded, and still another fraction (SOPS players) have found out just what’s under the hood of this lemon of a DLC pack. That’s definitely not right, not from anyone working in this industry and least of all from the caring-sharing community builders at 343. An update to the XBL marketplace blurb is most definitely in order, and that isn’t asking for much either.
Really hoping they don’t just ignore this. All kidding aside, that would be a real slap in the face. That kind of treatment would push me away from 343 permanently. Even if future titles were excellent Halo games; I won’t support a developer who treats their consumer base like this.
We apparently aren’t even getting definitive answers as to why this is happening, let alone a timeline as to a possible fix.
> I’m one of those many that bought the bundle only to be disappointed.
> I’m sure this will gain more attention once the Global Championship is over. A good majority of the employees are still in Germany for the whole of the event. Us less competitive folks gotta just wait a bit.
>
> I’ve been checking everyday since release to see if an update might be released un-announced but nothing yet.
>
> My money is on the current employee business is Germany.
Huh… could this be the reason why there are “no plans” to fix this problem, as BS Angel told us? Maybe they’ll get to work on it when they get back?
> So are you saying the odds are the Champions bundle content and any new content will never be usable on SPOPS!?
>
> Just asking because you seem to have some technical based knowledge regarding this issue.
That’s not what I’m saying. All I was doing was offering as best an explanation as I could for why the Champions TU/DLC is in a bit of a rough state right now.
That said, I can say one thing about the Spartan Ops matter with good confidence, though some will take it as pointing out the obvious: odds are that fixing it would require an additional Title Update.
I really hope we get something definitive on whether or not the Champions DLC will be fixed inorder for it to work in spartan ops… I thought my moniter post was a definitive answer, but alas I was wrong. I just want to hear something positive from a 343 higher up… Because I do agree this is unexceptable behavior from a company as big as 343. Boy my armor would look good killing Elites for fun! One can hope though I guess.
> Huh… could this be the reason why there are “no plans” to fix this problem, as BS Angel told us? Maybe they’ll get to work on it when they get back?
>
> Again, I can only hope.
I don’t know man. As far as I’m aware, not every employee of 343i is overseas right now. The majority of people back in the States can’t address this?
> > So are you saying the odds are the Champions bundle content and any new content will never be usable on SPOPS!?
> >
> > Just asking because you seem to have some technical based knowledge regarding this issue.
>
> That’s not what I’m saying. All I was doing was offering as best an explanation as I could for why the Champions TU/DLC is in a bit of a rough state right now.
>
> That said, I can say one thing about the Spartan Ops matter with good confidence, though some will take it as pointing out the obvious: odds are that fixing it would require an additional Title Update.
Phew, well at least there’s still some glimmer of hope left.
But what’s the big deal with another TU? I thought MS discontinued the fee for TUs? So if $ isn’t the issue, what could be?
> But what’s the big deal with another TU? I thought MS discontinued the fee for TUs? So if $ isn’t the issue, what could be?
Think of it like surgery, it should be done as often as needed but playing with the innards of a game isn’t something you wan’t do often, if at all. There’s always the chance that an update to one part of the game will, through the long list of inter-dependencies, cause something else to go wrong so the safest course of action (and the one devs tend to go for) is to update the game as infrequently as possible. So, in needing another TU to just fix the champions DLC, it is going to be a difficult and probably a painful process (and 343 might just choose to let the DLC limp along instead.)
> Really hoping they don’t just ignore this. All kidding aside, that would be a real slap in the face. That kind of treatment would push me away from 343 permanently. Even if future titles were excellent Halo games; I won’t support a developer who treats their consumer base like this.
>
> We apparently aren’t even getting definitive answers as to why this is happening, let alone a timeline as to a possible fix.
>
> Just… SMH
Yah, it’s one thing to not like the game itself but to feel cheated by a dev’s business practices is quite another. Confidence can come or go at a whim, but trust is a lot harder to build.
> > But what’s the big deal with another TU? I thought MS discontinued the fee for TUs? So if $ isn’t the issue, what could be?
>
> Think of it like surgery, it should be done as often as needed but playing with the innards of a game isn’t something you wan’t do often, if at all. There’s always the chance that an update to one part of the game will, through the long list of inter-dependencies, cause something else to go wrong so the safest course of action (and the one devs tend to go for) is to update the game as infrequently as possible. So, in needing another TU to just fix the champions DLC, it is going to be a difficult and probably a painful process (and 343 might just choose to let the DLC limp along instead.)
Precisely. In terms of community relations, it would be best if 343i updated Spartan Ops to support the Champions’ Bundle… but only if they know for sure that they can do it without nuking the asset-loading code and breaking half the population’s Halo 4 copies by accident. Maybe the TU relies on completely safe methodology that can be extended easily, or maybe by necessity it is an ugly, ugly hack that will break forever if someone so much as looks at the code in an IDE.
Honestly, I wish we had more information to go on, though to my knowledge it’s not typical for game devs to explain why the specific innards of a game engine would or wouldn’t promote “deep” and technical changes to things like asset storage.
It looks like the Beta testing phase should have used more testers and more time. Sure it looks bad when a product is promised by a certain date, and it is not yet ready then, but selling a flawed product just so it can be ‘on time’ is worse. And then not posting the disclaimer with the file about to be purchased, so that the Buyer knows what limitations are expected, makes it even worse.
> Will some Monitor please kill this topic before the stupidity leaks out the main servers and turns the whole world into something like in that one Futurama episode?!
>
> Seriously, this topic started beating a dead horse about 6 pages worth of posts ago, but now it’s not only beating the horse, we’re stringing it up in the public square for everyone in the village to have a turn to flog it. WE GET IT, they have something to fix. WE GET IT, you are pissed about a portion of missed gameplay functionality, and WE ALSO GET IT that you feel cheated for poorly justified reasons.
>
> It’s even more insult to injury that this topic still is being bumped after the closest thing to an answer has already been fielded (the actual answer and this response notwithstanding).
>
> So please; stop complaining, write your farewell threads, go back to Halo Reach, convert to Battlefield or CoD like a good old bandwagon jumper, and stop giving me cancer with these Yoink! complaint threads.
Sometimes we need a -Yoink- storm to get what the producers not want us to give.
Think back to XBox One DRM am Mass Effect 3 Extendend Cut. And i think, what is written in this thread is not that bad, like what was written in forums about XBO or ME3.
Maybe they don’t patch this Spartan Ops Season for us, but what if they decide to bring the 2. SPOPS Season, witch support Champions Bundle and maybe give us a secound Bundle for free with the SPOPS Season 2. As an excuse for failing to say us, that Champions Bundle will not work in SPOPS Season 1 BEVOR we spend our money to buy it. That would be okay for me. I will be carefully from now on buying a Product from 343, because, I don’t want to have this mess again just because they don’t mentioned it in the product describtion, but if they give us SPOPS Season 2. witch supports Champions Bundle the mistake should be forgiven.
> Maybe they don’t patch this Spartan Ops Season for us, but what if they decide to bring the 2. SPOPS Season, witch support Champions Bundle and maybe give us a secound Bundle for free with the SPOPS Season 2. As an excuse for failing to say us, that Champions Bundle will not work in SPOPS Season 1 BEVOR we spend our money to buy it. That would be okay for me. I will be carefully from now on buying a Product from 343, because, I don’t want to have this mess again just because they don’t mentioned it in the product describtion, but if they give us SPOPS Season 2. witch supports Champions Bundle the mistake should be forgiven.
I’m all for forgiving as long as some compensation is provided. I’d settle for half my money back, but I like your ideas too
After my disappointing reply from BS Angel I’ve since tweeted several other prominent figures at 343i, whether it makes any difference is doubtful but I agree we should run with this as far as we can. SPOPS is my favourite part of the game outside of the campaign and I also agree that it seems neglected compared to war games. It may not have been the success they wanted it to be but they should still cater to those of us who enjoy it.
> After my disappointing reply from BS Angel I’ve since tweeted several other prominent figures at 343i, whether it makes any difference is doubtful but I agree we should run with this as far as we can. SPOPS is my favorite part of the game outside of the campaign and I also agree that it seems neglected compared to war games. It may not have been the success they wanted it to be but they should still cater to those of us who enjoy it.
Good on you to push this. Maybe the silence is due to them scrambling to get a fix together. Or maybe it’s due to them not caring, but I don’t want to lose that much faith in humanity.
