CEA Pistol not quite right, thoughts?

I was under the impression that during the TU Beta the Reach Magnum was just a placeholder meant to replicate the H1 Pistol and once Anniversary launched the H1 M6D Pistol would be used for Matchmaking, not the Halo Reach M6G Magnum. I loaded the game and the first thing I checked was custom game options for starting weapons, much to my dismay it only listed the Magnum, so I loaded Forge and went to drop a weapon…Magnum. Finally I loaded up matchmaking to confirm what I feared, the Reach Magnum with a TsK and capped rate of fire.

I understand it’s close, but there is still a significant difference between these two weapons…the clip size. M6D had 12 shots allowing for a rare but entirely possible Killtac with a single clip, while the inferior M6G only has 8 rounds which doesn’t even allow a triple kill with a single clip. Is anyone else as annoyed by this as I am?

I don’t mean to put down the game either, I do enjoy the additions to Campaign but I’m oldschool and my LAN buddies and I were very disappointed when we heard the original multiplayer was being gutted. I fully understand the reasons for it being removed but the only redeeming quality for me and my group of friends was the thought of the H1 M6D Pistol being an option in Custom Games/Forge…I wouldn’t even care if it wasn’t added into MM, yet once again my friends and I are left disappointed. Thoughts?

They acknowledged a while ago that the Anniversary gametype adjustments were going to be pretty crude; PR doesn’t have stun either, for instance.

Even if they could have gotten mechanics like ammo count right, I’d still be shocked if they could get it to actually feel all that much like a Halo 1 pistol, considering the totally different magnetism and hit detection system, and very different natural shooting cadence on the model and sound design.

Actually putting an exact Halo 1 pistol would be pretty much impossible.

> They acknowledged a while ago that the Anniversary gametype adjustments were going to be pretty crude; PR doesn’t have stun either, for instance.
>
> Even if they could have gotten mechanics like ammo count right, I’d still be shocked if they could get it to actually feel all that much like a Halo 1 pistol, considering the totally different magnetism and hit detection system, and very different natural shooting cadence on the model and sound design.
>
> Actually putting an exact Halo 1 pistol would be pretty much impossible.

I imagine emulating a weapon from one game in another is a daunting task. We tend to boil things down and make it sound simple, but I would imagine it’s not as straight forward as we think. I think they did the best they could with what they has without turning it into a massive TU to make it perfect.

Yea, I guess I just got my hopes up is all. I honestly thought that with a new disc being released the could have changed more options that were hardcoded into reach. Things like allowing individual weapon damages to be tweaked in the customs menu, or a bloom on and off feature instead of having to play and save the gametypes from the playlist.

I know they said you would have to download/save the gametypes etc. but I remember Frankie saying something about other surprises not included in the TU Beta playlist. So far the only surprise I received was Bloom being in every playlist. -_-

I suppose it would be to OP and noone would even consider switching to the DMR.

> I imagine emulating a weapon from one game in another is a daunting task. We tend to boil things down and make it sound simple, but I would imagine it’s not as straight forward as we think.

I think the issue is that Reach wasn’t designed to be able to have the sandbox easily modded; obviously the demand for Halo 1-like MP has made that a concern, but it wasn’t at the time of development, and these capabilities really have to be implemented from the ground up.

> > > I imagine emulating a weapon from one game in another is a daunting task. We tend to boil things down and make it sound simple, but I would imagine it’s not as straight forward as we think.
> >
> > I think the issue is that Reach wasn’t designed to be able to have the sandbox easily modded; obviously the demand for Halo 1-like MP has made that a concern, but it wasn’t at the time of development, and these capabilities really have to be implemented from the ground up.
>
> I think that’s exactly the case.

Just wanted to say thanks to sdnomdE for the quick reply, just because you mentioned the PR stun I knew you actually understood exactly what I was talking about.

Dragondude80, I suppose you might be correct but I would, at the very least, be content with the ability to use it in custom games.

It does seem to be Bungie’s fault, not 343i’s, specifically because the Reach custom game options / menu seemingly cannot be easily edited or changed. Which is why we are forced to play and save the gametype changes (such as no bloom, or bleedthrough fixes) instead of having an option to toggle them.

> Just wanted to say thanks to sdnomdE for the quick reply, just because you mentioned the PR stun I knew you actually understood exactly what I was talking about.
>
> Dragondude80, I suppose you might be correct but I would, at the very least, be content with the ability to use it in custom games.
>
> It does seem to be Bungie’s fault, not 343i’s, specifically because the Reach custom game options / menu seemingly cannot be easily edited or changed. Which is why we are forced to play and save the gametype changes (such as no bloom, or bleedthrough fixes) instead of having an option to toggle them.

Yeah, thats Bungie’s fault they made the game, 343 is just ¨fixing¨ it.

> > Just wanted to say thanks to sdnomdE for the quick reply, just because you mentioned the PR stun I knew you actually understood exactly what I was talking about.
> >
> > Dragondude80, I suppose you might be correct but I would, at the very least, be content with the ability to use it in custom games.
> >
> > It does seem to be Bungie’s fault, not 343i’s, specifically because the Reach custom game options / menu seemingly cannot be easily edited or changed. Which is why we are forced to play and save the gametype changes (such as no bloom, or bleedthrough fixes) instead of having an option to toggle them.
>
> Yeah, thats Bungie’s fault they made the game, 343 is just ¨fixing¨ it.

Hindsight is 20/20. I don’t think anyone foresaw the desire to adjust some of these game settings. So, while it’s easy and convenient to blame Bungie for this, I wouldn’t. It’s hard to put in an option based on future feedback. Sure, it seems obvious now… but then? Not so much.

> Yeah, thats Bungie’s fault they made the game, 343 is just ¨fixing¨ it.

I applaud them for what they have done to try and fix Reach.

I really hope they are paying attention, and understand that customization is key to making Everyone happy. All it takes is the option to turn things on/off and change individual weapon damages in H4 for custom games and you will please the entire community. The Machinima community, MLG community, B.net community, H.B.O. community…everyone should be able to tweak and adjust the custom game options as they see fit.

> > They acknowledged a while ago that the Anniversary gametype adjustments were going to be pretty crude; PR doesn’t have stun either, for instance.
> >
> > Even if they could have gotten mechanics like ammo count right, I’d still be shocked if they could get it to actually feel all that much like a Halo 1 pistol, considering the totally different magnetism and hit detection system, and very different natural shooting cadence on the model and sound design.
> >
> > Actually putting an exact Halo 1 pistol would be pretty much impossible.
>
> I imagine emulating a weapon from one game in another is a daunting task. We tend to boil things down and make it sound simple, but I would imagine it’s not as straight forward as we think. I think they did the best they could with what they has without turning it into a massive TU to make it perfect.

I can chime in here. I work in the industry and taking one thing from one game engine to another is a daunting task and nobody really knows what it is until you try. It can be impossible in some scenarios.

Most likely - the task of doing such was not worth it. So they made due. It however would not be hard to take the pre-existing template used in reach and alter the rounds allowed to be chambered if they designed their weapons in a sensible fashion. That is some simple code adjustments that would be less than a days work for a programmer to implement, test, and then move to QA for further testing.

But - it all depends on how they built it.

I have yet to play the CE remake, but I am extremely excited!!! Possibly some time in later today or this upcoming weekend!

Honestly I don’t know why they decided to implement the CE Pistol. They said the reason they couldn’t include original CE multiplayer was because it wouldn’t play like we remembered.

So they decided to give us a crappy version on the CE Pistol. I don’t understand that logic.

> I can chime in here. I work in the industry and taking one thing from one game engine to another is a daunting task and nobody really knows what it is until you try. It can be impossible in some scenarios.
>
> Most likely - the task of doing such was not worth it. So they made due. It however would not be hard to take the pre-existing template used in reach and alter the rounds allowed to be chambered if they designed their weapons in a sensible fashion. That is some simple code adjustments that would be less than a days work for a programmer to implement, test, and then move to QA for further testing.
>
> But - it all depends on how they built it.
>
> I have yet to play the CE remake, but I am extremely excited!!! Possibly some time in later today or this upcoming weekend!

When I watched This Video with Mat Noguchi explaining the tag system they use to code Halo I was under the impression that they made tweaking easier for themselves. Can you watch this video “XxX Post XxX” and comment on it? I would appreciate it.

Edit: He starts talking about the tag system around the 4min25sec mark.

I think they need to change it so that its not two body shots and a headshot kill.

> I think they need to change it so that its not two body shots and a headshot kill.

Well this is supposed to be a throwback to Halo 1 and that is exactly how the Pistol in Halo 1 functioned, so technically that aspect of the Magnum is perfect for the classic playlists. My gripe is that I wanted an exact replica of the H1 Pistol in these playlists, the only thing that seems to be missing is the clip size.

Well I watched the whole thing.

If 343 didn’t have full access to all of the original files, tags, and tag editors - it would be a serious problem. Esepecially with Reach. Also, if programmers didn’t leave ample notes, they would have a harder time manipulating the codes. When creating completely new tags and compiling them all together - if something adjusted an area too much it could potentially break the game.

Whenever you implement new code into a game - it changes the whole thing.

Think of a game as jello. When you add code, you poke the jello and it all has a ripple effect. IF you poke it too much, the jello will become unstable and break down. So, 343 probably took the safest route with the magnum by not poking the jello. Especially if there were bugs in the system relating to the weapon prior that only became stable within the latest build.

Don’t poke the jello. That is the safest way of doing things.

> Well I watched the whole thing.
>
> If 343 didn’t have full access to all of the original files, tags, and tag editors - it would be a serious problem. Esepecially with Reach. Also, if programmers didn’t leave ample notes, they would have a harder time manipulating the codes. When creating completely new tags and compiling them all together - if something adjusted an area too much it could potentially break the game.
>
> Whenever you implement new code into a game - it changes the whole thing.
>
> Think of a game as jello. When you add code, you poke the jello and it all has a ripple effect. IF you poke it too much, the jello will become unstable and break down. So, 343 probably took the safest route with the magnum by not poking the jello. Especially if there were bugs in the system relating to the weapon prior that only became stable within the latest build.
>
> Don’t poke the jello. That is the safest way of doing things.

Thanks so much for watching the video and for taking the time to reply again, much appreciated. I’ll just have to be happy with what they have given us (which is a huge step forward IMO). I’ll continue to pray to the Halo gods that the next (it’s always the next lol) Halo game will give us, the community, many more variables when it comes to custom games.

I would hope that 343 has access to everything Halo related now, as they are in charge of the franchise. Not sure if that means they would be handed over all the programming apps and such that the entire team helped create over the last decade. Obviously they had their hands tied in one way or another when it came to editing multiplayer for Reach. You can’t say they aren’t making an effort though.

Considering what they had to work with, I believe they replicated the CE magnum very well. The bloom makes it have a slight spread just as the CE magnum had from a distance. The RoF is almost exactly the same as CE. A larger clip would body shots more effective.

There’s certain things even 343 can’t change. They said a while ago that they couldn’t change the Mag size. To be honest I was suprised when they said that they could change the damage and bloom of the weapons.