Captain Cutter 2.0

Get comfy and grab your UNSC approved brew, here is my proposal for Cutter 2.0.

Disclaimer:

  • I am a UNSC main, and have limited experience playing against UNSC as banished. - I play 3 v 3 random teams (I don’t have any friends). - I don’t really play aggressively or to win (i.e. abuse broken game mechanics). - If you recognise one of your own ideas in my list of suggestions, feel free to claim credit - I don’t remember where they all originate from and how many are from my own grey matter. - I do think Cutter is still viable, I just have some suggestions to make him more interesting to play as!Hero Unit

I think its general consensus that Cutter should have Major Vaughan’s ODST squad - (pleasantly named) “Sunray 1-1”. Two different Jerome’s running around is kind of strange. There are a number of potential upgrade routes.

Option 1) The squad is purchased in its entirety. Upgrades increase health/ damage.

Option 2) The squad is purchased as a 3 man fire team. This initial team could contain one or more specialised units for balancing purposes. For example, to have Vaughan be effective against vehicles, a SPNKR wielding trooper (later upgraded to a S.Laser). Upgrades add more units.

Additional options) Have the mini MAC EMP marker make a return, to offset potential weaknesses vs vehicles or infantry blobs early game (owing to lack of AOE attack). Or perhaps the ability to call in a single ODST squad for similar effect.

One question to answer is whether the health is shared by all units, or each unit within the squad has its own health (as per marines). Could add an interesting element to gameplay.

ODST

In need of a revamp. Effective early, but late game not good for much other than their stun and distraction. I’m honestly not sure why the ODST squads are all armed with the M7S SMG - think back to Halo 3: ODST, and the squad was armed to the teeth and capable of dealing with most threats. Why we are given a squad of “rookies” is confusing. Replace the SMG with a Battle Rifle or DMR to make them effective against infantry (rarely used by many leaders late game), similar to the Elites “run and fire” ability.

Option 1) Move a Leader Point from Restoration Drones 3 or Turret Drop 2 to “ODST Drop 2” - improving effectiveness through upgraded armament (better vs different unit types), health and overall damage.
Option 2) Have “ODST” as a final marine upgrade, as in HW1. Late game, basic marines are arguably more effective - they can heal vehicles and buildings, fire rockets at air units, and throw grenades at ground units. Tactically, and financially, it makes more sense to make marines.
Option 3) Add a “Power” cost requirement to ODST Drop and increase their effectiveness as per Option 1.
Option 4) Change the ODST Assault Group so it is a larger number of better equipped ODST, perhaps with a few light vehicles, to better reflect what ODST are and remove the “Instant” army call in.

A note on timed charges - if anyone could explain to me how these are supposed to work, I would love to know. Half the time they don’t go where told, and then don’t go off, and late game they tickle buildings. If they operated like grenades with a 1-2 second fuse that would be fine, or some sort of remote option…

Cyclops Drop leader power

I have a bit of a gripe with this. At Tier 4, you can call in one cyclops. Granted, it is a level 2 veteran, but lets compare that with a few other leaders: (apologies if there are mistakes here, this is copied from a website - take too long to look them all up)

Atriox
Glassing Beam I: Fires a controllable plasma beam. Damages all unit types and buildings. It has a cooldown of 195s.
Glassing Beam II: Increases Glassing Beam size and damage. It has a cooldown of 195s
Teleport I: Teleports own units to any location within range. Does not require line of sight. It has a cooldown of 165s.

Forge
Vehicle Drop I: Deploys 2 veteran Kodiaks. It has a cooldown of 180s.
Vehicle Drop II: Adds a veteran Warthog to Vehicle Drop. Transport Pelican is upgraded to a gunship. It has a cooldown of 180s.
Lotus Mine I: Drops a line of cloaked mines. Once armed, mines explode on contact. Does not damage air units. It has a cooldown of 105s.

Decimus
Teleport I: Teleports own units to any location within range. Does not require line of sight. It has a cooldown of 165s.
Boundless Siphon – Passive: All units gain a permanent minor health siphon when they damage enemy units. Effect stacks with Life Leech.

Shipmaster
Spirit Support: Deploys one Elite Ranger, one Hunter, and two Engineers. Spirit provides prolonged cover fire. It has a cooldown of 180s.
Displacement: Teleports enemy units. Does not require line of sight. It has a cooldown of 240s.

You get the picture. Feels to me that at this stage, you should be looking at a ~3 cyclops, or an anti-vehicle ODST squad or something! Late game one cyclops will not have an effect.

Finally… Close Air Support.

I think this was in the forum fairly recently, but I think it needs revisiting.

  • It is far too easy to shoot down - no other leader power, save for the lackluster Lich, can be destroyed before it does any damage. Spending 1500 resources for nothing is just ridiculous. “Its situational” you say, as you call in your equally situational leader power where ever you want, with no fear of it being negated instantly. - It does little to no damage - I watched my CAS attempted to take down a hunter early, and in its entire lifespan, it only just managed it - the damage output is terrible. This may be in part due to the next issue… - It cannot be targeted properly. It is not an area of denial weapon - the pelican’s can be destroyed one by one as they circle, so by placing it in one area, you want it to damage something in that area… except, you have no choice over what. I like to call in nukes on enemy production buildings to halt their… production. I cant do that with my CAS though. It will shoot where ever it chooses, often times changing targets before it even half health’s units or buildings. - The air meta is strong in 3 v 3 right now. This means that at least one of your opponents will either have Air, or Anti - Air, both of which are extremely effective against… Air. Add to that the fact most people place AA turrets on their bases and the CAS loses its last grain of effectiveness. Not one to complain without providing alternatives, here are mine.

Replace CAS with a timed Condor.
Dramatically increase CAS health.
Dramatically increase CAS health AND damage, and increase cost.

My favourite idea - and least likely - give Cutter a 1 - 3 shot precision MAC blast power, where each blast takes out, for e.g. a turret and 1/3 of the buildings health next to it, or 3/4 of a building health if targeted directly. All three would perhaps 1/3 a Scarab and 1/2 a condors health.

In summary, I know none of these things will ever be implemented, I just wanted to share my thoughts and want to know what you guys think. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I am a Halo purist and a massive ODST fan, I just want to bring Cutter inline, thematically, with other leaders (such as that Goo guy, Kinsano, Serina, Arbiter, etc)

Thanks for reading.

tl;dr - moar ODST, CAS is rubbish.

A lot of this would just make Cutter insane and unreasonable to fight. It’s not that he’s bad right now it’s that core vehicles are more effective right now because their counters just don’t do enough.

I would be willing to bet Cutter will be top tier again next season. If Cyclops can steamroll vehicles like they should then Cutter will be king again.

I disagree with your assessment of ODSTs. They may not heal like combat mechanic Marines but that doesn’t matter too much with Nightingales having superb healing on up to 3 units/structures.

CAS could use some help I do agree with that. A timed Condor would be a bit much. ODST assault group is fine and is one of the most useful and impactful ults in the game.

Heavily disagree with your suggestion on MAC and ODST upgrades. The ability to churn ODST out of minis and main structures would be as broken as it sounds. Despite what you think ODST are monsters in this game and get the job done.

It sounds like you want all the advantages Cutter Had in the first game (quad MAC, ODST) and the strengths of the second game (fast infantry, unit drops).

I agree with Sunray being his hero unit but don’t see it happening.

Trust me, cutter isn’t done being one of the best leaders. He’s had a rough time ever since the anvil round buff, but as long as core infantry is good he will be at or near the top of the list. Unit drops will never fade in relevance so he will always have that going for him.

Thanks for the reply Viper.

I appreciate the “steam roller” concern, I remember my base being run over on more than one occasion by an unstoppable mob of men. If anything that’s my least favourite part of playing Cutter - that his strength is blob attack removes a level of strategy. I would certainly vote to tone it down further, but I would probably be standing alone on that front as Raid is his “thing”. It’s just that hes the only leader I have access to the unsung hero’s of the war.

I suggested the ODST assault group change because I felt that many people weren’t a fan of it. I thought to mitigate the perceived 'OP’ness by making a bit more infantry-centric, and perhaps balance his leader powers overall if, as you say, some changes led to him becoming insane.

I suppose what I am trying to get at more is that Cutter feels a bit… plain, and by modifying the ODST to be a bit more flexible and incorporate them moreso into the way Cutter operates, it would differentiate him. I think he has been a bit left behind now some of the more creative leaders have appeared.

If someone could make me Halo Wars 2: ODST, which is more akin to Dawn of War 2 with smaller, customisable squads, I’ll be happy as a pig in the proverbial.

Let’s save ODSTs and Vaughan for the Flood Jackel Mastercheif Vaughn ODST chimera Overlord Dragon, Pal. I understand that UNSC mains want their OP abilities but this is unlikely to happen.

> 2533274883783969;4:
> Let’s save ODSTs and Vaughan for the Flood Jackel Mastercheif Vaughn ODST chimera Overlord Dragon, Pal. I understand that UNSC mains want their OP abilities but this is unlikely to happen.

This is the kind of constructive post that encourages people to post on the forums.

No idea what the first line you said is about. Like the rest of the gaming community, I want a fair game. Also, read:

> 2533274793819841;1:
> Get comfy and grab your UNSC approved brew, here is my proposal for Cutter 2.0.
>
>
> - I don’t really play aggressively or to win (i.e. abuse broken game mechanics).In summary, I know none of these things will ever be implemented, I just wanted to share my thoughts and want to know what you guys think. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I am a Halo purist and a massive ODST fan, I just want to bring Cutter inline, thematically, with other leaders (such as that Goo guy, Kinsano, Serina, Arbiter, etc)

I feel you here, but Viper is right.

Cutter was a top leader for most of this game’s existence. The Forgehog buff changed that, and now we’re in a vehicle meta.

If Anti-vehicle units get the buffs they need, Cutter will probably dominate again. He has great early game potential and useful drops. CAS might need a slight health boost, but I don’t really prescribe to that so much.

I would also disagree that Cutter’s “blob mob” style takes little strategy. I think he’s one of the leaders that takes the most micro to use well (especially now). If you’re “all units”-ing your mob of infantry around, a small pack of suicides will end that fast.

Thanks Fungus, you raise a fair point around the micro - I haven’t had to deal with an opponent who knows how to properly counter it, so I haven’t had to “up my game” to deal with it. No doubt I will learn the hard way soon.

I only hope they don’t overdo it and leave us with Cyclops armies, supported by nightingales and wolverines, just annihilating everything.

> 2533274793819841;7:
> I only hope they don’t overdo it and leave us with Cyclops armies, supported by nightingales and wolverines, just annihilating everything.

I agree. I didn’t like when cyclops acted as core units.
But, if basic infantry is made effective, just grunts/marines should be able to wipe a cyclops/wolves army.

Man this post made me realize RTS are really hard to balance. I do wish Sunray was his leader ability but I also like my Jerome having his Spartan Laser.

As long as vehicles are beating anti-vehicle units Cutter has no chance. Whenever they actually make counter units work, Cutter will be on his way back to top tier. Reverting all the marine and ODST buffs from a couple patches ago made him woefully bad and overall the game isn’t interesting in its current iteration. As far as your post goes, I think most of the changes you’re looking for are unreasonable. Don’t think the design or balance teams are looking into changing his leader unit or making a timed condor his 12 oclock. Think you should be shooting a little lower with your expectations such as Raid/ODST dmg buffs, not complete redesigns of leader powers.

Thanks for the reply Solid, I probably should have made it clearer that this is my “blue sky thinking” and these are proposed changes that I would like to see, but don’t expect to.

Like you say, at this stage in the games lifecycle major changes are both unlikely and probably highly problematic from a balancing perspective. Doesn’t stop a marine from dreaming about what could be though!

I agree with you in that playing as Cutter isn’t that interesting at present - which is a shame because, well, he’s the Captain.

CAS support though… played a few games today where someone called it in and again, it did no damage before it was destroyed. Saddens me to see.