Can't stand hypocrisy of casuals anymore...

Games Other Halo
1

I used to think the super hardcore players were the biggest jerks in the community. Now I think it’s the play-for-fun casuals that make up at least half of the “vocal community”.

Why? Because while competitive players want there to be visible ranks in half the playlists and invisible ranks in social playlists while YOU want all the playlists to be social. That’s is so fricken GREEDY!

If you don’t like the idea of rank, that’s fine. If you don’t think it works, that’s your opinion. But it is not FACT. I can shoot down every single one of your arguments against rank.

  1. Encourages cheating. Major hypocrisy right here. Any kind of rank (including progression) will be manipulated by some. It happened in Reach with credit farming and that network glitch and will probably happen in 4 too. Of you think the removal of visible rank means a cheating-free Halo 4? Ohhhhh I can’t wait to see how long it takes for this new system to be exploited. My bet is 1 month tops.

Oh and let’s not forget, BANHAMMER 4.0!! Halo has had 8 years to refine its cheating detecting system. It already worked really well in terms of keeping gameplay manipulation like modding, standbying, and most glitches out in Halo 3.

I’m not worried at all about the same manipulation tricks working in 4. 343 can now detect AFKers, delevelers, country location boosters, network manipulation, etc. I’m not worried about cheating at all. It will happen some, but so what? The exploits of a few don’t ruin the whole game. And visible rank will NOT determine the amount of cheating. /argument

  1. Trash talking Elitest Players. Oh what, you don’t want your feelings to get hurt because someone can show off that he/she is better than you? Mute them, play social, move on with your life. In Reach, I saw more trash talk towards casuals who had a really high progression rank because they were “assumed” to be good than in 3 where you can see a number rank.

Again, an invisible ranking system will not decrease trash talking and a visible one will not increase it. /argument

  1. It doesn’t work? Again, that’s your opinion. My experiences in 2 and 3 compared to Reach say otherwise. In Halo 2 (despite having a fledgling system), I found my niche in the 32-34 area. I would CONSISTENTLY have good matches that would end in with a score of 50-45 and vice versa. When I made it to 34, I’d be above my true skill range and would start facing better players. If I was having a good day, I could cope. If not, I’d lose a few matches and be back with people who are closer to my skill.

Halo 3’s wasn’t quite as effective since it was over complicated and you went up and down a little too fast. It was still better than Reach’s though. In Reach, I hardly ever got a good match that ended with 50-45. I either dominated the other team or got dominated. It was so dumb and just plain out not fun.

You want an example of a broken system? Look at Reach.
/argument

  1. The last main argument and the one that angers me the most. “You shouldn’t play to win. You should play to have fun like me”. It’s now political. You are now forcing your views on me and others. Instead of being reasonable and wanting ranked and social to be separate where you have your playlists and we have ours, we are now enemies. Political enemies, trying to get 343 to be in our favor.

You may end winning this battle simply because 343 thinks you represent the casual majority when in reality, most casuals wouldn’t even care.

It’s a sad day in Halo when competitive and casual players can’t both get what they want when the simple solution is right in front of our eyes…

2

Stop it please your getting tears everywhere. If you care that much that your rank doesn’t show up for everyone then you have self esteem issues. It’s not necessary in anyway shape or form to have them shown I don’t see a problem with you and yor friends seeing your rank but I personally don’t wanna go back to the hey look everybody I have a 50 herpa derp that was in halo 3

3

> I used to think the super hardcore players were the biggest jerks in the community. Now I think it’s the play-for-fun casuals that make up at least half of the “vocal community”.
>
> Why? Because while competitive players want there to be visible ranks in half the playlists and invisible ranks in social playlists while YOU want all the playlists to be social. That’s is so fricken GREEDY!
>
> If you don’t like the idea of rank, that’s fine. If you don’t think it works, that’s your opinion. But it is not FACT. I can shoot down every single one of your arguments against rank.
>
> 1. Encourages cheating. Major hypocrisy right here. Any kind of rank (including progression) will be manipulated by some. It happened in Reach with credit farming and that network glitch and will probably happen in 4 too. Of you think the removal of visible rank means a cheating-free Halo 4? Ohhhhh I can’t wait to see how long it takes for this new system to be exploited. My bet is 1 month tops.
>
> Oh and let’s not forget, BANHAMMER 4.0!! Halo has had 8 years to refine its cheating detecting system. It already worked really well in terms of keeping gameplay manipulation like modding, standbying, and most glitches out in Halo 3.
>
> I’m not worried at all about the same manipulation tricks working in 4. 343 can now detect AFKers, delevelers, country location boosters, network manipulation, etc. I’m not worried about cheating at all. It will happen some, but so what? The exploits of a few don’t ruin the whole game. And visible rank will NOT determine the amount of cheating. /argument
>
> 2. Trash talking Elitest Players. Oh what, you don’t want your feelings to get hurt because someone can show off that he/she is better than you? Mute them, play social, move on with your life. In Reach, I saw more trash talk towards casuals who had a really high progression rank because they were “assumed” to be good than in 3 where you can see a number rank.
>
> Again, an invisible ranking system will not decrease trash talking and a visible one will not increase it. /argument
>
> 3. It doesn’t work? Again, that’s your opinion. My experiences in 2 and 3 compared to Reach say otherwise. In Halo 2 (despite having a fledgling system), I found my niche in the 32-34 area. I would CONSISTENTLY have good matches that would end in with a score of 50-45 and vice versa. When I made it to 34, I’d be above my true skill range and would start facing better players. If I was having a good day, I could cope. If not, I’d lose a few matches and be back with people who are closer to my skill.
>
> Halo 3’s wasn’t quite as effective since it was over complicated and you went up and down a little too fast. It was still better than Reach’s though. In Reach, I hardly ever got a good match that ended with 50-45. I either dominated the other team or got dominated. It was so dumb and just plain out not fun.
>
> You want an example of a broken system? Look at Reach.
> /argument
>
> 4. The last main argument and the one that angers me the most. “You shouldn’t play to win. You should play to have fun like me”. It’s now political. You are now forcing your views on me and others. Instead of being reasonable and wanting ranked and social to be separate where you have your playlists and we have ours, we are now enemies. Political enemies, trying to get 343 to be in our favor.
>
> You may end winning this battle simply because 343 thinks you represent the casual majority when in reality, most casuals wouldn’t even care.
>
> It’s a sad day in Halo when competitive and casual players can’t both get what they want when the simple solution is right in front of our eyes…

I spent the last 2 days trying to convince people about this, I changed a couple minds in the other thread just by making people realize, Hey we can have both. Most arguments here are about their feelings getting hurt, jealousy for some kind of reason that i don’t know, or the best one, it wouldn’t effect me but I still don’t want it.

4

So… what? Why do you care about what other people want/do?

5

You bring up some legitament concerns, however; I remember them saying there won’t be a “social” playlist and “ranked”. It’ll be together. Limmie see if I can find it.

6

Idc Wat system they use. But I’m finding it really funny how everyone is getting mad at everyone over something that has yet to be officially talked about/shown from 343

7

Because all casuals are so radical, and all competitives are such jerks.

Seriously man, generalizations never got anyone anywhere. If you have an issue with someone, instead of making a page on Waypoint about how their stance is so greedy, why don’t you just address those people directly?

8

> Stop it please your getting tears everywhere. If you care that much that your rank doesn’t show up for everyone then you have self esteem issues. It’s not necessary in anyway shape or form to have them shown I don’t see a problem with you and yor friends seeing your rank but I personally don’t wanna go back to the hey look everybody I have a 50 herpa derp that was in halo 3

this is where it gets political. You assume that rank is for my self esteem. Haven’t you already noticed that I just admitted that I’m only a slightly above average player!?!?. I’m not trying to be the very best. Nor do I really care that much about what others think.

If you must know, my favorite part of rank is the risk factor. I love earning something when I win and losing something when I lose. Not getting that much exp when I lose doesn’t matter to me.

I like seeing the effects of my good and/or bad performance and I like seeing myself stacked against my friends and I like seeing the rank of my enemies before the match starts so I can prepare myself for what kind of match it will be.

9

> Because all casuals are so radical, and all competitives are such jerks.
>
> Seriously man, generalizations never got anyone anywhere. If you have an issue with someone, instead of making a page on Waypoint about how their stance is so greedy, why don’t you just address those people directly?

My apologies. If the title had room for more characters, I would have made it clear that I was talking about the anti-visible rankers who want to force their views on others.

10

I couldn’t even read past the title…

You even make time to post such a thread and keep repeating the same points again and again while there are thousands of threads around here just like this one. So who’s the real hypocrite?

11

Whenever there are winners and losers people are going to be competitive players who wanna win.

I personally hate losing more than I enjoy winning but then again I play to understand the game and to become as good as I can. There is no reason why we cant have a ranking system that actually works for players like me and still have playlists for the people who dont have a competitive bone in their body.

But for people to come out and say that they dont want a herpa derpa 1-50 system just makes me laugh cause you are telling everyone that you were probably too young at h3 and thus not very good. I was a 50 in TS and i loved how competitive and tense the matches became near the end. To all the people who hated being picked on. We sorry but man it’s life, if you are not skilled at something you will catch grief. But then again the mute button is there for you.

Lets hope that the ranking system is based on w/l.

12

> Oh and let’s not forget, BANHAMMER 4.0!! Halo has had 8 years to refine its cheating detecting system. It already worked really well in terms of keeping gameplay manipulation like modding.

What? Xbox Live detects modded consoles, not 343i.
Parts of both sides of the community are going out of hand with the ranking system.

13

so where are the “casual” people being hypocritical?

visible skill rank as the main rank doesn’t work, full stop, you can’t say this is just peoples opinions and then try and disprove it, guess, what, thats just your opinion as well so don’t force it down peoples throats, just because its your opinion that it worked based on your personally minority experience doesn’t mean that it actually factually worked, same the other way around how ever its been made pretty much clear by 343i that it doesn’t work in the way it was meant to work and that the abuse it created was much much greater then what people actually beleive.

the problem with skill based ranking being the main rank is that it promotes foul play in order to progress through the ranks, the skilled players won’ts resort ot foul play because they can progress through the ranks thanks to there skill how ever lesser skilled players which is also the majority cannot, but, because they want to reach the max rank they resort to other tactics such as de-ranking and bought accounts as a base example, this happened everywhere and it was only avoidable at 50 high in ranked playlists and that was it, anything below was riddled with people trying to abuse the system to get a 50.

with all this abuse to the system going on made it pysically impossible for you to judge a players skill off of the rank they’ve acheived, a 50 could be a 10 and a 10 could be a 50, this causes the entire ranking system to break down and completely fail all together, how exactly does it work when a 50 can have the skill level of a 10? i encountered this all the time yet i keep getting told i’m lieing and its social so it doesn’t matter.

here’s the thing, that skill rank achieved was meant to carry over into social so you could actually judge a players skill based on the rank they’ve achieved, this was phsyically an impossible task to do making the entire thing pointless and factually broken, encountering 50’s who couldn’t hit that big -Yoink- rock if was staring them in the face was very enfurating when the system is trying to make you beleive that that person is actually a top tier player, possible one of the best when he actually wasn’t.

now, this is where the people wanting skill based ranking back get hypocritical themselves, they state that they want it back so they can be evenly matched and so that they know the skill level they’re at and the skill level of there frieinds and opponents, how ever they don’t refer to global rank but playlist specific rank, well, reach did just that, it provided a user friendly global rank while providing a playlist specific rank that was based off of skill, this was called arena, how ever, these people condone this sytem because apperently it isn’t what they want and didn’t work because it wasn’t “ranked” as they call it, this right here is hypocritical because they are asking for it then saying that it sucks and that they don’t want it at the very same time, this is a solid loose loose situation for the developers.

there’s also a missunderstanding going around skill based rank as well, a lot of people beleive that a skill based ranking system matches players even when this factually isn’t the case, what matches players evenly is a hidden none visible more accurate system known as true skill, the game keeps entire track record of how you’ve performed over your time played of the game to determine your skill level and true skill then uses this to try and match you against players of similair skill, this flexibility in this can be loostend and tighten, typcially in social its set very loosely to allow for games to be found faster and in “ranked” its set a lot tighter to allow for more accurate proper competitive games at the cost of search times, in reach the entire system just didn’t work and was broken which was something we can all agree on, good news is that 343i are or have improved this so it should work in halo 4.

enjoy.

edit:
on a personal opinionated note, i would prefer that halo didn’t have any kind of a ranking system what so ever because it really is just mind manipulation and somewhat conditioning that is ruining the gaming industry. MY OPINION!

14

I think you’re misunderstanding the reasoning behind this…

I’ve never seen more “Bring Back 1-50!” posts. They are everywhere!

But, the amount of posts that have said, “No More 1-50!” is startlingly small. I don’t think there was a movement at all before we had any details of the game.

Here’s where the difference needs to be noted…

Competitive players want the visible ranking system. <mark>343i’s decided against it (Frankie is one of the biggest “Remove 1-50!” supporters).</mark> Competitive players started demanding for it. Neutral/“casual” (hate that word, really alienates a large portion of the people you’re talking to) have recently started to fire back at the competitive players.

Now, I’m going to highlight where you guys need to be focusing your frustration. It is not other Halo players who are neutral/casual/whatever label you want to put on it. They had nothing to do with the decision. The decision was made by 343i’s, with Frankie being the most vocal about how bad 1-50 was.

Both sides of the issue make good, valid points sometimes. And both sides of the issue make horrible, invalid points sometimes.

Basically, stop trying to put blame on someone. If you’re really that frustrated, then take it out on those who actually made the decision. Not voicing your dislike for these “casual” players. All that does is start petty flame wars, where both sides look stupid.

15

Sorry OP but complainig like this doesn’t solve anything.

This is pointless

16

I dont even care if there are visible ranks. I just want a trueskill system that actually works. I a am tryhard, and I like winning. I also dont mind losing (to an extent), because that means that I am facing good people.

My ideal system would be ranked and social playlists with a solid ranking progression that also showed how much exp you have in that playlist (like Halo 3s).

17

At the end of the day Competitive Players are better than Casuals Players. Casual Players will never be as good as Competitive Players no matter how many gameplay crutches you give them. In Halo 4 I will eradicate any casual player I come across and as long as I have a mic I will trash talk them and assert my dominance over them.

18

Attacking a part of the Halo community isn’t going to do anything but let you get your frustration out.

> This is pointless

19

> At the end of the day Competitive Players are better than Casuals Players. Casual Players will never be as good as Competitive Players no matter how many gameplay crutches you give them. In Halo 4 I will eradicate any casual player I come across and as long as I have a mic I will trash talk them and assert my dominance over them.

See I am extremely competitive, but I have no need to assert my dominance by trash talking, I kill them in game, but I love at the end of the game seeing my rank going up or even down if I lose. I love the risk factor, and without it I find the game just boring. There is no reason to play without it for me.

20

> In Halo 4 I will eradicate any casual player I come across and as long as I have a mic I will trash talk them and assert my dominance over them.

You, and the ones like you, are the reason the ranking system got removed in the first place.