Can you not vote Complex and Abandon for CTF?

I’m getting fed up with leaving every other Capture the Flag game because of these poor map choices. I am OK with the maps in any other mode, its whatever but CTF? C’mon! These maps are horrendously asymmetrical and not balanced at all. I could see them for One Flag, but there is no One Flag. This is seriously ridiculous. For Capture the Flag to work, you need balance. There is no balance on these maps. Cut it the hell out with these awful CTF maps. I can say with no exaggeration that every CTF game I have played on Complex and Abandon have been clearly one sided. Hell, the Red team wins at least 80% of the time on Abandon.

TL;DR: Stop voting for Complex/Abandon for Capture the Flag

The only good maps for CTF in the whole game are Adrift and Ragnorak.

Best 3 maps for CTF:

Adrift, Ragnarok and Solace.

Adrift is amazing for CTF because it’s just so intense, and Ragnarok and Solace because CTF is the only gametype that works on the two maps.

Yes, I totally agree. Those maps are great and you know why? They’re symmetrical. Just how they should be for Capture the Flag.

Abandon is amazing! Especially for CTF! I fail to see your problem there.

Complex, I’ll give you that one. Map is great in Slayer and SWAT but not CTF, map is just too asymmetrical.

Solace is the WORST, the stupid lower platform pretty much lets you walk right into the enemy base. Because that can happen people often camp their bases because once the flag is below, you have little to no access to the lower area and the flag is gone.

In fact, Solace is probably the worst map in the game.

I can’t believe 343 were clueless enough to include completely asymmetric maps in a 2 Flag playlist. Complex might not be so bad if it weren’t impossible to ninja run a flag in Halo 4 due to there always being an icon on the flag to try to make the gametype appeal to new players or something.

Don’t even get me started on the spawn system in flag or the balancing issues on Abandon… ughhhhhhhhhh.

Beach spawn on Abandon flag has a MASSIVE advantage. When they pull the flag from Gold base, they have 5 ways to run it, all with decent cover, and the close quarters around the base area allow the flag carrier to use the flag beatdown effectively to escape. Beach spawn’s flag is out in the open with only 2 practical routes to take, but the thing that makes it completely and undefendable as a gametype for that map are the lack of functional respawn zones on the beach side.

If beach team kills gold base team while pushing up to their flag, the gold base team will start spawning tree lift side, purple forest side, or in the courtyard below, giving beach team a good opportunity to pull the flag and run it, rewarding them for winning the firefight.

If gold base team kills beach team? Beach team KEEPS SPAWNING ON THE BEACH. I had a game recently on Abandon where we were completely outslaying the other team. (Before you say "play the objective and quit complaining about not being rewarded for playing slayer in CTF, we were trying to push up to their flag the whole time.)

Every time we’d kill their team and start making a move for the flag, THEY’D RESPAWN ON THE BEACH before we could get the flag out of there! That whole side of the map is wayyyy too open to get a flag out of there when the spawns are that atrocious. Whoever’s idea it was to include these broken asymmetric maps in a 2 flag playlist should be out of a job, 343. That shows that you don’t have the faintest idea what goes into making capture the flag work. The introduction of permanent HUD icons for the flags, and the inability to drop the flag combine to completely ruin the dynamic of “run the flag and have them know where you’re going, or try sneaking it but move slower.” The only reason I think the flagnum is almost needed is because the enemy team always knows where you’re taking the flag, and the flagnum’s enormous bloom and lack of scope make it pretty weak.

By the way, all the problems I ranted about Abandon apply equally to Wreckage if anyone has had the immense displeasure of getting the “wrong” spawn on that map in flag. The team that spawns near the big mesa thing has a big height advantage, gets better spawns, and can easily score the flag on foot by launching up to the mesa on the mancannon and running around the corner right down to their capture point. The other team’s flag runner is waaaay out in the open if he tries the same strategy going the other way. They’re only able to get a flag cap if they have a very coordinated team running along with the carrier through the middle’s indoor wreckage parts or get a Warthog cap.

tl;dr- whoever thought it’d be okay to include asymmetric maps in flag without a 1 flag gametype is a complete and utter idiot that doesn’t understand the first thing about game design and should be out of a job, the CTF playlist is severely broken at the moment, and the spawn system is horrible.

> Abandon is amazing! Especially for CTF! I fail to see your problem there.
>
> Complex, I’ll give you that one. Map is great in Slayer and SWAT but not CTF, map is just too asymmetrical.
>
> Solace is the WORST, the stupid lower platform pretty much lets you walk right into the enemy base. Because that can happen people often camp their bases because once the flag is below, you have little to no access to the lower area and the flag is gone.
>
> In fact, Solace is probably the worst map in the game.

I respectfully disagree. Solace may be unfit for the other gametypes, that is true, but in CTF it truly does shine. It’s an amazing CTF map.

> Abandon is amazing! Especially for CTF! I fail to see your problem there.
>
> Complex, I’ll give you that one. Map is great in Slayer and SWAT but not CTF, map is just too asymmetrical.
>
> Solace is the WORST, the stupid lower platform pretty much lets you walk right into the enemy base. Because that can happen people often camp their bases because once the flag is below, you have little to no access to the lower area and the flag is gone.
>
> In fact, Solace is probably the worst map in the game.

Yeah I can’t see how you think Abandon is great for CTF. Its a fun map for sure, but there are so many strategical disadvantages for blue team. I’ll spare my explanation because I think A Portal Turret summed it up pretty well. As for Solace, no way man. That map is excellent for CTF. It has two bases, its symmetrical, it has an above ground and underground, and it even has the beam of light in the center to stop snipers from wrecking the map and pretty much turning it into a Boardwalk. I think we all know how awful that map was.

That being said, I’d actually have to say Complex is the worst map in the game. There is often a lot going on and for me it simply can’t run at 30 fps during those large activity moments. I just think that one really wasn’t thought through. A prime example is the open spawn on the Garage side of Complex. If any enemy is even remotely close whether they are located on the bridges or the rooftop, you just get spawn killed. I’ve been able to thank that specific spawn for about 100 deaths I’d say in honesty.

> Abandon is amazing! Especially for CTF! I fail to see your problem there.
> Complex, I’ll give you that one. Map is great in Slayer and SWAT but not CTF, map is just too asymmetrical.
>
> Solace is the WORST, the stupid lower platform pretty much lets you walk right into the enemy base. Because that can happen people often camp their bases because once the flag is below, you have little to no access to the lower area and the flag is gone.
>
> In fact, Solace is probably the worst map in the game.

There’s so much wrong with this post that I can’t even tell if you were serious or not. Abandon is amazing, especially for CTF?! Either you’ve always gotten the beach spawn or this is your first time ever playing CTF in a Halo game.

Solace is one of the only 3 maps that actually work in flag, lol. It’s not perfectly symmetric (a trait it shares with Ragnarok,) but it plays pretty much even. The jungle base spawn has a tiny advantage since the side entrances to their base give them an elevation advantage and there are some rocks in the back of their base that players can jump behind to camp the flag, but other that that it’s very close to an even matchup. That lower platform you’re complaining about actually gives flag runners a route with some cover to take, and it’s really easy to defend against that lower base entrance. Players trying to come up from the lower entrance are really easy to grenade, you have a height advantage as a defender, and you can corner camp with a boltshot if need be.

I guess what I don’t understand is why Haven doesn’t have even start points on each on the open and closed ramps and just put the flag on the top platform at the end of the streets by street2 and the bridge to top mid. Presto, a symmetric flag map that can be played competitively and offers multiple routes for flag runners!

Longbow could work for CTF too, it’s not quite symmetric but plays close to it, like Ragnarok. I just don’t get how there are so many asymmetric maps without a 1 flag option. I had good faith in 343 going into Halo 4 given how they handled Reach’s title update, but the way they botched the playlist management for Reach at the end there probably should have tipped me off to them not being able to manage a game very well. Lo and behold, we have broken playlists with features that didn’t need to be added that break several gametypes, and some key gametypes are missing or get rotated in and out to artificially create excitement.

Bumping for discussion and possible 343 response. The lack of acknowledgement of this game’s myriad of problems from the devs is incredible frustrating and discouraging.

Apparently no one’s every played CTF on Solace. Seriously there is a reason that MLG v1 (and before that) has the lower floor completely blocked off. There’s just no point for it, the above level is great, but the bases, too many quick corners and places to hid a BS user and other campers.

Solace is proof that just because a map is symmetrical does not make it great for CTF, and is rarely picked for these reasons and more.

And in defense of Abandon, Society of the Apes pretty much said that Red team (gold base) has the advantage and A Portal turret said that Blue team (beach side) has the advantage. It’s evident that you two have no idea what you’re talking about lol.

> Hell, the Red team wins at least 80% of the time on Abandon.
>
> Its a fun map for sure, but there are so many strategical disadvantages for blue team.

> Beach spawn on Abandon flag has a MASSIVE advantage. When they pull the flag from Gold base, they have 5 ways to run it, all with decent cover, and the close quarters around the base area allow the flag carrier to use the flag beatdown effectively to escape. Beach spawn’s flag is out in the open with only 2 practical routes to take, but the thing that makes it completely and undefendable as a gametype for that map are the lack of functional respawn zones on the beach side.
>
> If beach team kills gold base team while pushing up to their flag, the gold base team will start spawning tree lift side, purple forest side, or in the courtyard below, giving beach team a good opportunity to pull the flag and run it, rewarding them for winning the firefight.

I’m finding it pretty funny that neither of you has any idea of what the other person is saying.

Anyway Abandon has a lot going for it: a great verticality in gameplay, the sides offering another method of map movement, and the fact that despite it’s small size and asymmetrical differences, both teams have a rather balanced chances for both teams.

And going on A Portal Turret’s argument (because Society of Apes agrees with him that blue team has the advantage and so made little to go on) spawns are effected by the placement of your team, if your team is In the middle then either side will by their base towards the sides.you can also effect “Beach team’s” spawns according to how your team moves into the area. Also beach team has more more area to spawn in the beach area so you can move their spawns more and “Gold team” has more cover to move around.

I’ve managed to help my team dominate the map no matter what side I’ve spawned on. Each side has it’s advantages and it’s up to your team to take advantage of them, making the map spawns balanced. Skill still holds more control on the map than where you spawn.

Complex is truely horrible for CTF, Blue has a huge advantage. Abandon is pretty bad too only it’s Red team with the advantage. Although I feel like if they had Red Flag spawn bottom Gold instead of top it would help. I don’t know what they could do with complex.

> Abandon is amazing! Especially for CTF! I fail to see your problem there.
>
> Complex, I’ll give you that one. Map is great in Slayer and SWAT but not CTF, map is just too asymmetrical.
>
> Solace is the WORST, the stupid lower platform pretty much lets you walk right into the enemy base. Because that can happen people often camp their bases because once the flag is below, you have little to no access to the lower area and the flag is gone.
>
> In fact, Solace is probably the worst map in the game.

Abandon: It’s assymetrical, I don’t think CTF works well on assymetrical maps, works great on symmetrical maps but there needs to be some balancing changes for it to work.

Complex: Yes it is horrible for CTF, but I don’t agree with you on the Slayer and SWAT games. In SWAT, you could be spawn trapped by people with DMR’s on the rooftops. Same goes for Slayer. This is another example of the lack of map movement in this game thanks to the DMR.

Solace: I don’t really care, I think I vaguely remember playing CTF on that map and it worked just fine for me.

> > Abandon is amazing! Especially for CTF! I fail to see your problem there.
> >
> > Complex, I’ll give you that one. Map is great in Slayer and SWAT but not CTF, map is just too asymmetrical.
> >
> > Solace is the WORST, the stupid lower platform pretty much lets you walk right into the enemy base. Because that can happen people often camp their bases because once the flag is below, you have little to no access to the lower area and the flag is gone.
> >
> > In fact, Solace is probably the worst map in the game.
>
> Abandon: It’s assymetrical, I don’t think CTF works well on assymetrical maps, works great on symmetrical maps but there needs to be some balancing changes for it to work.
>
> Complex: Yes it is horrible for CTF, but I don’t agree with you on the Slayer and SWAT games. In SWAT, you could be spawn trapped by people with DMR’s on the rooftops. Same goes for Slayer. This is another example of the lack of map movement in this game thanks to the DMR.
>
> Solace: I don’t really care, I think I vaguely remember playing CTF on that map and it worked just fine for me.

I’ll admit that I exaggerated Complex, I don’t like the rooftops on that map, they act a bit like Solace’s lower floor. 343i should just drop the map barrier to cover the roofs so you can’t have people camp up there. -Yoinking!- campers ruining maps.

> And in defense of Abandon, Society of the Apes pretty much said that Red team (gold base) has the advantage and A Portal turret said that Blue team (beach side) has the advantage. It’s evident that you two have no idea what you’re talking about lol.
>
> I’m finding it pretty funny that neither of you has any idea of what the other person is saying.
>
> Anyway Abandon has a lot going for it: a great verticality in gameplay, the sides offering another method of map movement, and the fact that despite it’s small size and asymmetrical differences, both teams have a rather balanced chances for both teams.
>
> And going on A Portal Turret’s argument (because Society of Apes agrees with him that blue team has the advantage and so made little to go on) spawns are effected by the placement of your team, if your team is In the middle then either side will by their base towards the sides.you can also effect “Beach team’s” spawns according to how your team moves into the area. Also beach team has more more area to spawn in the beach area so you can move their spawns more and “Gold team” has more cover to move around.
>
> I’ve managed to help my team dominate the map no matter what side I’ve spawned on. Each side has it’s advantages and it’s up to your team to take advantage of them, making the map spawns balanced. Skill still holds more control on the map than where you spawn.

You think I have no idea what SoA is saying when we basically outlined the massive problems with Abandon flag? Gold base team has a height advantage and has an easier time outkilling the beach team, but beach team has a much easier time stealing the flag from gold base and a much easier time stopping a flag runner due to the the broken respawn zones on the beach. More often than not, red team will outkill blue team, but blue team will win the match in flag.

Either you’ve been much more fortunate with the spawn zones on the beach, or you’re grasping at straws. I don’t want to derail this and turn it into a “who’s moar 1337” e-peen contest, but I find it really funny that you brought up “skill still holds more control on the map than where you spawn” when you have a k/d barely over 1 and your recent games in flag are all asymmetric maps. I really don’t see how anyone that understands the mechanics of the gametype can defend a broken asymmetric map’s inclusion and bash one of the few maps that actually works for the gametype. The spawns and layout on Abandon are far and above a worse problem for flag than the lower area of Solace. (Which both teams have an equal chance to control and use to run flags through by the way.)