Can we talk about Hero units?

For this thread, I’m mainly referring to the stronger heroes.

I’m curious what the rest of you guys think about them.

The problem I have with them is that they exacerbate the turtling problem in the game. Simply too hard to kill a hero unit in a garrison compared to what it takes to make one. The only real answer to them on tech 1 is snipers which is ridiculous considering how expensive they are compared to the hero itself. Even on tech 2 jerome will wipe a whole pop worth of hogs which should be a counter to him.

Some maps (Mirage for example) just make it practically impossible to kill them since there’s a garrison every screen length, which is incredibly frustrating to play against.

I hear ur struggle brother, but honest, I think hero unit balance is one of the few things 343 has right. Start off with a strong anti infantry presence early game and put pressure on the base of your opponent to try and prevent them from having resources to upgrade their hero unit.

> 2535442157275978;1:
> For this thread, I’m mainly referring to the stronger heroes.
>
> I’m curious what the rest of you guys think about them.
>
> The problem I have with them is that they exacerbate the turtling problem in the game. Simply too hard to kill a hero unit in a garrison compared to what it takes to make one. The only real answer to them on tech 1 is snipers which is ridiculous considering how expensive they are compared to the hero itself. Even on tech 2 jerome will wipe a whole pop worth of hogs which should be a counter to him.
>
> Some maps (Mirage for example) just make it practically impossible to kill them since there’s a garrison every screen length, which is incredibly frustrating to play against.

Did you get vehicle level 2 or base warthogs

Wait til the next patch comes out. Snipers will be stronger against heroes and I think some nerfs are happening to the stronger leaders.

It only gonna be strong against infantry hero units, forge hog is still very strong.

> 2793304054609295;5:
> It only gonna be strong against infantry hero units, forge hog is still very strong.

True, but Forge’s hog took a huge nerf over the last couple of months. Too many people try to force tech progression, they shoot themselves in the foot. Follow the progression of the game, infantry to tech 2 units to tech 3 units and upgrades. Tech 1, marine throw grenades. Tech 2, hornets and counter units (snipers/flamethrowers). Tech 3, anti vehicle and or snipers. Diverse army forces. If your game plan is to rush to tech three, a hero unit causes a lot of problems. Follow the progression cycle, and they are almost always a non factor.

> 2533274828876776;6:
> > 2793304054609295;5:
> > It only gonna be strong against infantry hero units, forge hog is still very strong.
>
> True, but Forge’s hog took a huge nerf over the last couple of months. Too many people try to force tech progression, they shoot themselves in the foot. Follow the progression of the game, infantry to tech 2 units to tech 3 units and upgrades. Tech 1, marine throw grenades. Tech 2, hornets and counter units (snipers/flamethrowers). Tech 3, anti vehicle and or snipers. Diverse army forces. If your game plan is to rush to tech three, a hero unit causes a lot of problems. Follow the progression cycle, and they are almost always a non factor.

Well it Forge’s economy that is his speciality so the upgrades means nothing to him.

> 2535442157275978;1:
> For this thread, I’m mainly referring to the stronger heroes.
>
> I’m curious what the rest of you guys think about them.
>
> The problem I have with them is that they exacerbate the turtling problem in the game. Simply too hard to kill a hero unit in a garrison compared to what it takes to make one. The only real answer to them on tech 1 is snipers which is ridiculous considering how expensive they are compared to the hero itself. Even on tech 2 jerome will wipe a whole pop worth of hogs which should be a counter to him.
>
> Some maps (Mirage for example) just make it practically impossible to kill them since there’s a garrison every screen length, which is incredibly frustrating to play against.

The strength of heroes doesn’t match the cost or build time, they’re currently too cheep to rebuild and too fast to build for how powerful they are, especially late game. They need to increase the cost and build time with each upgrade. for each 300+ upgrade the hero take X amount of time and raises the cost of his currently static 300/275+

It’s fairly obvious this needs to be done, but people don’t seem to care about balance, people just want to win and if they feel their hero is op they want to keep it that way.

Pav hero is getting nerfed, arby is getting nerfed, rangers and snipers are getting buffed vs inf/hero. Both deci siphons are getting nerfed so his hero wont be as good. So a lot of anti hero meta getting pumped into this next patch to counter act the hero spam. I despise Spartans when playing as banished too so only time will tell, hopefully these buffs/nerfs will help.

> 2533274794693191;8:
> > 2535442157275978;1:
> > For this thread, I’m mainly referring to the stronger heroes.
> >
> > I’m curious what the rest of you guys think about them.
> >
> > The problem I have with them is that they exacerbate the turtling problem in the game. Simply too hard to kill a hero unit in a garrison compared to what it takes to make one. The only real answer to them on tech 1 is snipers which is ridiculous considering how expensive they are compared to the hero itself. Even on tech 2 jerome will wipe a whole pop worth of hogs which should be a counter to him.
> >
> > Some maps (Mirage for example) just make it practically impossible to kill them since there’s a garrison every screen length, which is incredibly frustrating to play against.
>
> The strength of heroes doesn’t match the cost or build time, they’re currently too cheep to rebuild and too fast to build for how powerful they are, especially late game. They need to increase the cost and build time with each upgrade. for each 300+ upgrade the hero take X amount of time and raises the cost of his currently static 300/275+
>
> It’s fairly obvious this needs to be done, but people don’t seem to care about balance, people just want to win and if they feel their hero is op they want to keep it that way.

The thought I had was to have a cool off period once your hero dies, lets say 30 seconds, then you can build him again.

> 2533274794693191;8:
> > 2535442157275978;1:
> > For this thread, I’m mainly referring to the stronger heroes.
> >
> > I’m curious what the rest of you guys think about them.
> >
> > The problem I have with them is that they exacerbate the turtling problem in the game. Simply too hard to kill a hero unit in a garrison compared to what it takes to make one. The only real answer to them on tech 1 is snipers which is ridiculous considering how expensive they are compared to the hero itself. Even on tech 2 jerome will wipe a whole pop worth of hogs which should be a counter to him.
> >
> > Some maps (Mirage for example) just make it practically impossible to kill them since there’s a garrison every screen length, which is incredibly frustrating to play against.
>
> The strength of heroes doesn’t match the cost or build time, they’re currently too cheep to rebuild and too fast to build for how powerful they are, especially late game. They need to increase the cost and build time with each upgrade. for each 300+ upgrade the hero take X amount of time and raises the cost of his currently static 300/275+
>
> It’s fairly obvious this needs to be done, but people don’t seem to care about balance, people just want to win and if they feel their hero is op they want to keep it that way.

We do not need a 500/400 Atriox Chosen again, the prices for Heroes were insanely high back then and weren’t very worth it.
The only broken Hero is Pavium with his Y and Arbiter.

> 2533274936603132;11:
> > 2533274794693191;8:
> > > 2535442157275978;1:
> > > For this thread, I’m mainly referring to the stronger heroes.
> > >
> > > I’m curious what the rest of you guys think about them.
> > >
> > > The problem I have with them is that they exacerbate the turtling problem in the game. Simply too hard to kill a hero unit in a garrison compared to what it takes to make one. The only real answer to them on tech 1 is snipers which is ridiculous considering how expensive they are compared to the hero itself. Even on tech 2 jerome will wipe a whole pop worth of hogs which should be a counter to him.
> > >
> > > Some maps (Mirage for example) just make it practically impossible to kill them since there’s a garrison every screen length, which is incredibly frustrating to play against.
> >
> > The strength of heroes doesn’t match the cost or build time, they’re currently too cheep to rebuild and too fast to build for how powerful they are, especially late game. They need to increase the cost and build time with each upgrade. for each 300+ upgrade the hero take X amount of time and raises the cost of his currently static 300/275+
> >
> > It’s fairly obvious this needs to be done, but people don’t seem to care about balance, people just want to win and if they feel their hero is op they want to keep it that way.
>
> We do not need a 500/400 Atriox Chosen again, the prices for Heroes were insanely high back then and weren’t very worth it.
> The only broken Hero is Pavium with his Y and Arbiter.

At tier 3, that’s exactly what we need, 500/400 for a tier 3 hero is extremely cheap for what they offer
A tier 2 should be around 400/300
Each tier should increase the timer by 20-25 seconds

> 2533274794693191;12:
> > 2533274936603132;11:
> > > 2533274794693191;8:
> > > > 2535442157275978;1:
> > > > For this thread, I’m mainly referring to the stronger heroes.
> > > >
> > > > I’m curious what the rest of you guys think about them.
> > > >
> > > > The problem I have with them is that they exacerbate the turtling problem in the game. Simply too hard to kill a hero unit in a garrison compared to what it takes to make one. The only real answer to them on tech 1 is snipers which is ridiculous considering how expensive they are compared to the hero itself. Even on tech 2 jerome will wipe a whole pop worth of hogs which should be a counter to him.
> > > >
> > > > Some maps (Mirage for example) just make it practically impossible to kill them since there’s a garrison every screen length, which is incredibly frustrating to play against.
> > >
> > > The strength of heroes doesn’t match the cost or build time, they’re currently too cheep to rebuild and too fast to build for how powerful they are, especially late game. They need to increase the cost and build time with each upgrade. for each 300+ upgrade the hero take X amount of time and raises the cost of his currently static 300/275+
> > >
> > > It’s fairly obvious this needs to be done, but people don’t seem to care about balance, people just want to win and if they feel their hero is op they want to keep it that way.
> >
> > We do not need a 500/400 Atriox Chosen again, the prices for Heroes were insanely high back then and weren’t very worth it.
> > The only broken Hero is Pavium with his Y and Arbiter.
>
> At tier 3, that’s exactly what we need, 500/400 for a tier 3 hero is extremely cheap for what they offer
> A tier 2 should be around 400/300
> Each tier should increase the timer by 20-25 seconds

A upgrade shouldn’t take almost a full minute for one unit, thats awful idea to balance and we don’t need Tier 2 and 3 upgrades to be 800/900 again.

But you should consider, that a hero opener should also be as viable as an normal infantery opener, and because you can only have one hero it is hard to balance. If you would increase the cost , hero opener wouldn’t be able to stop a rush, and if you nerf the heroes to much, nobody will play them in early Game anymore, cause you need a additional building which hurts you economy. I would increase the cost of the last T3 upgrade alot ( maybe doubled for all heroes) and either let their strenght the same or buff certain heroes like Hunter captain

> 2533274869431087;14:
> But you should consider, that a hero opener should also be as viable as an normal infantery or scout opener, and because you can only have one hero it is hard to balance. If you would increase the cost , hero opener wouldn’t be able to stop a rush, and if you nerf the heroes to much, nobody will play them in early Game anymore, cause you need a additional building which hurts you economy. I would increase the cost of the last T3 upgrade alot ( maybe doubled for all heroes) and either let their strenght the same or buff certain heroes like Hunter captain

> 2533274828876776;6:
> > 2793304054609295;5:
> > It only gonna be strong against infantry hero units, forge hog is still very strong.
>
> True, but Forge’s hog took a huge nerf over the last couple of months. Too many people try to force tech progression, they shoot themselves in the foot. Follow the progression of the game, infantry to tech 2 units to tech 3 units and upgrades. Tech 1, marine throw grenades. Tech 2, hornets and counter units (snipers/flamethrowers). Tech 3, anti vehicle and or snipers. Diverse army forces. If your game plan is to rush to tech three, a hero unit causes a lot of problems. Follow the progression cycle, and they are almost always a non factor.

When I play forge i go straight to building T3 airpad and vultures. Easy way to break turtles with archers.

For some reason players think you should only build grizzlies with Forge. So many other options

> 2533274852319616;16:
> > 2533274828876776;6:
> > > 2793304054609295;5:
> > > It only gonna be strong against infantry hero units, forge hog is still very strong.
> >
> > True, but Forge’s hog took a huge nerf over the last couple of months. Too many people try to force tech progression, they shoot themselves in the foot. Follow the progression of the game, infantry to tech 2 units to tech 3 units and upgrades. Tech 1, marine throw grenades. Tech 2, hornets and counter units (snipers/flamethrowers). Tech 3, anti vehicle and or snipers. Diverse army forces. If your game plan is to rush to tech three, a hero unit causes a lot of problems. Follow the progression cycle, and they are almost always a non factor.
>
> When I play forge i go straight to building T3 airpad and vultures. Easy way to break turtles with archers.
>
> For some reason players think you should only build grizzlies with Forge. So many other options

There is no such thing as “going strait to tech 3”. Tech three is time consuming and expensive, event with leaders like forge and pavium. Rushing tech 3 against top level players is an almost automatic loss, because while your hording resources and power, aggressive players are destroying your base pads. Again, most high level players are following progressions. Even with rolling economy, a full pop of vultures is almost impossible to achieve before the 10-12 minute mark. Simply factor in how long they take to build. And I assure you, most players will bully the person they know is teching up, and you end up being a liability for your teammates vs an asset.

I don’t have a problem with the heroes in the game so far, maybe because I get people not using them properly as opponents or idk. But if they are infantry based (walking around), I just build a lot of snipers and they take them out very fast, even in the garrison. Same with the vehicles, I just tend to build a lot of counter if they are being a nuisance lol. Usually I don’t bother with the heroes if they are in the middle of a big army. But so far, I haven’t had a problem with them. I will probably will soon or something lol.

> 2533274852319616;16:
> > 2533274828876776;6:
> > > 2793304054609295;5:
> > > It only gonna be strong against infantry hero units, forge hog is still very strong.
> >
> > True, but Forge’s hog took a huge nerf over the last couple of months. Too many people try to force tech progression, they shoot themselves in the foot. Follow the progression of the game, infantry to tech 2 units to tech 3 units and upgrades. Tech 1, marine throw grenades. Tech 2, hornets and counter units (snipers/flamethrowers). Tech 3, anti vehicle and or snipers. Diverse army forces. If your game plan is to rush to tech three, a hero unit causes a lot of problems. Follow the progression cycle, and they are almost always a non factor.
>
> When I play forge i go straight to building T3 airpad and vultures. Easy way to break turtles with archers.
>
> For some reason players think you should only build grizzlies with Forge. So many other options

Grizzlies are SUPER STRONG with Forgehog even with his nerf his economy makes them very affordable going air with Forge only works on some maps really but if you fast tech air you’re going to lose because Grunts and Marines beat air…
And no one can rush T3 in a game against decent players that know what you’re gonna do.

> 2533274936603132;13:
> > 2533274794693191;12:
> > > 2533274936603132;11:
> > > > 2533274794693191;8:
> > > > > 2535442157275978;1:
> > > > > For this thread, I’m mainly referring to the stronger heroes.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m curious what the rest of you guys think about them.
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem I have with them is that they exacerbate the turtling problem in the game. Simply too hard to kill a hero unit in a garrison compared to what it takes to make one. The only real answer to them on tech 1 is snipers which is ridiculous considering how expensive they are compared to the hero itself. Even on tech 2 jerome will wipe a whole pop worth of hogs which should be a counter to him.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some maps (Mirage for example) just make it practically impossible to kill them since there’s a garrison every screen length, which is incredibly frustrating to play against.
> > > >
> > > > The strength of heroes doesn’t match the cost or build time, they’re currently too cheep to rebuild and too fast to build for how powerful they are, especially late game. They need to increase the cost and build time with each upgrade. for each 300+ upgrade the hero take X amount of time and raises the cost of his currently static 300/275+
> > > >
> > > > It’s fairly obvious this needs to be done, but people don’t seem to care about balance, people just want to win and if they feel their hero is op they want to keep it that way.
> > >
> > > We do not need a 500/400 Atriox Chosen again, the prices for Heroes were insanely high back then and weren’t very worth it.
> > > The only broken Hero is Pavium with his Y and Arbiter.
> >
> > At tier 3, that’s exactly what we need, 500/400 for a tier 3 hero is extremely cheap for what they offer
> > A tier 2 should be around 400/300
> > Each tier should increase the timer by 20-25 seconds
>
> A upgrade shouldn’t take almost a full minute for one unit, thats awful idea to balance and we don’t need Tier 2 and 3 upgrades to be 800/900 again.

800/900? where did i ever quote those numbers? i actually wrote there numbers down, 500/400 for tier 3, its as if to strengthen your argument you just made number up in your head to make mine look invalid, last response. I’m not going to argue a point when you’re just making things up, I can have better conversations with my little nephew:)