This is probly the only thing that really bugs me about Halo 5 from a ‘competitive aspect’. Pistols, pistols everywhere. You really shouldnt start with the pistol and never worry about picking up another weapon (besides obvious power weapons like rockets) in a non tournament environment at the very least.
If you really want us using a weapon like the pistol in Halo 5 make it the BR at least. I’m sick of seeing and using the Halo 5 pistol.
It isnt very iconic or make much sense the pistol is the best weapon.
Well tbh I can’t think of any games besides maybe halo 3 that doesn’t have a meta that boils down to one gun? Halos competitive meta usually becomes a work horse and a situationally specific secondary. And the magnum in halo CE is infamous so and before that golden had the golden gun. Power pistols are iconic in halo and console shooters as a whole.
> 2535411919953126;2:
> Well tbh I can’t think of any games besides maybe halo 3 that doesn’t have a meta that boils down to one gun? Halos competitive meta usually becomes a work horse and a situationally specific secondary. And the magnum in halo CE is infamous so and before that golden had the golden gun. Power pistols are iconic in halo and console shooters as a whole.
It was only iconic in CE which was basically a single player only game. Every Halo besides 5 and maybe 4 (but I dont really know cause I block 4 out of my memory) never gave you a power weapon in your starting loadout…You would always rush to BR/DMR spawns at the start of the game.
And I’m not arguing about the meta boiling down to 1 gun, I’m saying you shouldn’t start with it and the BR should be the meta weapon if anything.
So, of the pistol was changed, with say a longer barrel, had a scope of sorts, a stock and a grip of some kind at the front of the gun for one hand, while the other hand hold the handle where the trigger is. Then it’s be ok?
What i don’t get about the h5 pistol is why it’s as effective as it is. I get that you want to have a reliable JOAT weapon at spawn, but why is it just as if not sometimes more effective than other base tier headshot weapons like the br? This is meant to be a sidearm but it often equals if not out performs primaries. And there’s a simple solution that’s so groundbreaking you’d never guess it… Make it take 1 more shot to kill.
The CE pistol is different as it is the headshot weapon… Also its literally a hand cannon.
H2s pistol. Was crap because of dual wielding… But dual it with a plasma pistol and its a faster noob combo, so that’s nice.
H3s was a joke
ODSTs was great
Reach’s was a joke
H4s was a joke
H5s is trying to be a CE/Odst hybrid when it should have been just the Odst pistol
> 2533274795123910;4:
> So, of the pistol was changed, with say a longer barrel, had a scope of sorts, a stock and a grip of some kind at the front of the gun for one hand, while the other hand hold the handle where the trigger is. Then it’s be ok?
It doesnt need any of that cause its already better than any other standard weapon in the game.
How about not have a sidearm weapon you start with make every other gun obsolete. Then it’s be ok. Dont understand the point you are trying to make.
I get your point, OP, and I agree fully. The CE pistol argument doesn’t make a lot of sense since that was the only mid-range precision weapon available in that game. Additionally, Jason Jones admitted he made a last-minute change to the damage output to make it incredibly powerful. I have no criticisms about the CE pistol in itself since I think it’s one of the greatest weapons to be in any game ever.
But, doesn’t make sense in Halo 5’s sandbox since it has the BR, DMR, Carbine, and Light Rifle available for mid-range battles. A sidearm with a lower caliber bullet should not be able to outperform a much beefier and balanced weapon. I really wish they’d never touched the sandbox in H5 without making a proper plan.
In Halo, the majority of encounters happen at a range where precision weapons excel. Furthermore, weapon balance is, and should be, partially based on the difficulty of using the weapon: more difficult weapons generally have a wider niche. Precision weapons happen to be some of the most skill sensitive weapons in Halo. These facts together naturally make precision weapos the utility weapons in the sandbox. The player needs a utility weapon at spawn in order to be able to defend themselves. In particular, spawning players with weak precision weapons or no precision weapons means that it will be too easy for a team that gains the lead to stay in the lead. These all naturally leads to the necessity to spawn players with a powerful precision weapon. Now whether this precision weapon is modeled to be a pistol or a rilfe is completely irrelevant for gameplay. However, subjectively I must say that powerful pistols are in some ways more satisfying to use than rifles (see, e.g., the Halo CE Magnum or the Desert Eagle in CS).
> 2535411919953126;2:
> Well tbh I can’t think of any games besides maybe halo 3 that doesn’t have a meta that boils down to one gun?
Halo 3 probably had the weakest sandbox with respect to the utility weapon, though Halo 2 doesn’t fare much better. In any case, in every Halo ever there has always been a precision weapon (possibly multiple) that is the weapon you want to have with you at all times. And as I explained above, this is for a very good reason. It’s not something one can get rid of, and there’s no need to. However, the fact that there is a utility weapon in the sandbox that sees a much higher frequency of use than all other weapons doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a “one gun game”. Once you accept the fact that players will be making the majority of their kills with a precision weapon in hand, and forget about trying to make all weapons equally useful, you can actually start thinking of ways emphasize the niche of each weapon.
Yeah, let’s get a meta that revolves around Covenant and Promethean weapons. That way competitive matches look flashy and colorful like the 4th of July.
I’m completely serious.The Carbine and Lightrifle are among my favorite weapons.
I’m the opposite. I love the pistol, I think it’s the perfect starting weapon. Not too good, not bad. Now you use it way more because they nerfed the BR to the point using a pistol is better but that’s not the pistols fault. I hope they keep the pistol starts for H6 but actually make the BR worth picking up.
> 2533274865708979;5:
> What i don’t get about the h5 pistol is why it’s as effective as it is. I get that you want to have a reliable JOAT weapon at spawn, but why is it just as if not sometimes more effective than other base tier headshot weapons like the br? This is meant to be a sidearm but it often equals if not out performs primaries. And there’s a simple solution that’s so groundbreaking you’d never guess it… Make it take 1 more shot to kill.
>
> The CE pistol is different as it is the headshot weapon… Also its literally a hand cannon.
> H2s pistol. Was crap because of dual wielding… But dual it with a plasma pistol and its a faster noob combo, so that’s nice.
> H3s was a joke
> ODSTs was great
> Reach’s was a joke
> H4s was a joke
> H5s is trying to be a CE/Odst hybrid when it should have been just the Odst pistol
H3 actually was not as bad as you might think. I dual weilded those bad boys and got some sweet kill combos at times. But it isn’t the best, you’re def right on that.
The problem isn’t the Pistol, the Halo 5 sandbox is just bad. I don’t mean the weapons themselves are weak like a lot of them were in the H2-Reach era, if I can give 343 credit for anything it is that most weapons in the H5 sandbox are actually lethal again rather than glorified clubs or peashooters.
But that is only one half of the equation. The other is to actually make those options interesting. There are 5 precision weapons in Halo 5 and despite their minor differences they more or less all do the same job. Why bother picking up and learning a BR, Carbine, or DMR when the Pistol more or less does the same job? Your options are superficial at best, the Light Rifle is the only one that even gets close to being a unique option in its own right. That is not a flaw with the Pistol that the rest of the sandbox is filled with clones.
This problem is not unique to precision weapons either. Halo 5 has 4 auto spray weapons, two tracking auto weapons, two reskin sniper rifles, two turrets, two shotguns and oh look there goes a huge chunk of the non dlc sandbox…
You can prefer having a rifle shaped utility weapon if you want, though it doesn’t actually fix the problem of the sandbox being uninteresting. However this moaning about the Pistol being the dominate utility weapon or being more than a “sidearm” just because it is pistol shaped has got to stop. When you can only carry two weapons at a time regardless of size or shape there is absolutely no room in the sandbox for “sidearm” that is only meant to be a “backup” weapon.
The Pistol doesn’t necessarily need to be the spawn utility weapon. I wouldn’t mind massively buffed versions of the H2 or H3 Pistols(think the H5 gunfighter) or the ODST Pistol(the original version with the 4x scope not the H5 version) as pickups on map, it just can’t be a throwaway weapon.
TL;DR The Pistol isn’t the problem the sandbox is just full of boring clones that don’t offer anything. Give weapon a truly unique niche that actually changes your playstyle and people might actually bother to pick up other weapons.
> 2533274922885329;3:
> > 2535411919953126;2:
> > Well tbh I can’t think of any games besides maybe halo 3 that doesn’t have a meta that boils down to one gun? Halos competitive meta usually becomes a work horse and a situationally specific secondary. And the magnum in halo CE is infamous so and before that golden had the golden gun. Power pistols are iconic in halo and console shooters as a whole.
>
> It was only iconic in CE which was basically a single player only game. Every Halo besides 5 and maybe 4 (but I dont really know cause I block 4 out of my memory) never gave you a power weapon in your starting loadout…You would always rush to BR/DMR spawns at the start of the game.
>
> And I’m not arguing about the meta boiling down to 1 gun, I’m saying you shouldn’t start with it and the BR should be the meta weapon if anything.
Wait so because it was Iconic in the first game it can’t be in others?
Halo CE was just as much a party game than it was a single player game we didn’t lug around consoles so we could all play alone together back in the day.
Every halo from reach on lets you start with the utility meta weapon. I don’t see what the difference is if it looks like a pistol or a rifle. just spawn without the meta-tool if it happens to be a pistol who cares.
I agree that starting with them is bad I’m just saying that mid-range semi-auto precision weapons are part of halos sandbox.
The Magnum was always dominate in Halo, it wasn’t exclusive to Halo 5 Guardians. Just as the Gnasher is dominant in Gears of War. While I disagree with 1 weapon being extremely dominant in MP games, because it take the variety out of matches. I doubt it will change.
> 2533274825830455;8:
> In Halo, the majority of encounters happen at a range where precision weapons excel. Furthermore, weapon balance is, and should be, partially based on the difficulty of using the weapon: more difficult weapons generally have a wider niche. Precision weapons happen to be some of the most skill sensitive weapons in Halo. These facts together naturally make precision weapos the utility weapons in the sandbox. The player needs a utility weapon at spawn in order to be able to defend themselves. In particular, spawning players with weak precision weapons or no precision weapons means that it will be too easy for a team that gains the lead to stay in the lead. These all naturally leads to the necessity to spawn players with a powerful precision weapon. Now whether this precision weapon is modeled to be a pistol or a rilfe is completely irrelevant for gameplay. However, subjectively I must say that powerful pistols are in some ways more satisfying to use than rifles (see, e.g., the Halo CE Magnum or the Desert Eagle in CS).
>
>
> > 2535411919953126;2:
> > Well tbh I can’t think of any games besides maybe halo 3 that doesn’t have a meta that boils down to one gun?
>
> Halo 3 probably had the weakest sandbox with respect to the utility weapon, though Halo 2 doesn’t fare much better. In any case, in every Halo ever there has always been a precision weapon (possibly multiple) that is the weapon you want to have with you at all times. And as I explained above, this is for a very good reason. It’s not something one can get rid of, and there’s no need to. However, the fact that there is a utility weapon in the sandbox that sees a much higher frequency of use than all other weapons doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a “one gun game”. Once you accept the fact that players will be making the majority of their kills with a precision weapon in hand, and forget about trying to make all weapons equally useful, you can actually start thinking of ways emphasize the niche of each weapon.
It is not necessarily a one gun game, agreed but Halo 2 meta is most certainly a one gun game. CE was pretty close, reach MLG was, 4 post patch is pretty close and 5’s meta is all pistols. I would argue halo 3 has the best sandbox in the franchise because weapon roles are well defined and the BR had a higher skill ceiling. If the game had better net code I think nearly every weapon would have been viable in online play but even as is the sandbox seems to allow for more variety at high-level play than any other halo. I do agree with OP that the pistol in 5 is too powerful to spawn with but I also love how it feels if I’m honest. I don’t mind if meta play boils down to one main firearm because at my level all weapons have a chance of winning in the right setting but spawning with a weapon with both high killing potential and wide versatility is broken and encourage players to neglect to sandbox and removes the importance of weapon placing in many situations outside true power weapons.
The problem isn’t the pistol. The problem is weapons like the BR aren’t really worth picking up in Halo 5 now (minus the H2BR, which should replace all BRs in playlists like doubles, TS, etc)
They royalty messed up when they added zooming to automatic weapons, but that’s a debate for another day.
When the pistol has as good of range as a weapon like the BR, then something isn’t right. The last weapons update wasn’t bad, minus the SMG and the BR.
I want the pistol to be a visible weapon in Halo 6. I actually want it to be the starting weapon as I feel it makes sense. Like arena FPS of old, you start with the pistol and then you go find better weapons. They just need to get a few things right balance wise is all.
> 2535411919953126;15:
> I would argue halo 3 has the best sandbox in the franchise because weapon roles are well defined and the BR had a higher skill ceiling.
Halo 3 has the weakest sandbox in the franchise. Practically all weapons that are not CQC or power weapons just flatout lose to the BR in any situation. The automatics in the game have no power, and the plasma pistol is only useful for stripping shields or stopping vehicles. This is in contrast to for example CE, where every weapon (except Needler) beats the Magnum at least in some situation.
> 2533274815533909;16:
> The problem isn’t the pistol. The problem is weapons like the BR aren’t really worth picking up in Halo 5 now (minus the H2BR, which should replace all BRs in playlists like doubles, TS, etc)
>
> They royalty messed up when they added zooming to automatic weapons, but that’s a debate for another day.
>
> When the pistol has as good of range as a weapon like the BR, then something isn’t right. The last weapons update wasn’t bad, minus the SMG and the BR.
>
> I want the pistol to be a visible weapon in Halo 6. I actually wanted to be the starting weapon as I feel it makes sense. Like arena FPS of old, you start with the pistol and then you go find better weapons. They just need to get a few things right balance wise is all.
Yeah, it is pretty weird that a sidearm would be more effective than a full-fledged military standard rifle. Personally, I think that the magnum from Halo 4 and Reach got it best. They were still capable of reaching out to longer distances, but weren’t as viable as the other precision weapons because bloom kept it in check. At the same time, it made a great close-range precision weapon since bloom is less of an issue when your target is within radar range. It wasn’t better than BRs and DMRs in most engagements, but it didn’t leave you doomed like SMGs starts would. I think that made the perfect medium, and it could again.
> 2533274825830455;17:
> > 2535411919953126;15:
> > I would argue halo 3 has the best sandbox in the franchise because weapon roles are well defined and the BR had a higher skill ceiling.
>
> Halo 3 has the weakest sandbox in the franchise. Practically all weapons that are not CQC or power weapons just flatout lose to the BR in any situation. The automatics in the game have no power, and the plasma pistol is only useful for stripping shields or stopping vehicles. This is in contrast to for example CE, where every weapon (except Needler) beats the Magnum at least in some situation.
In my experience every weapon in halo 3 played its role well. Sure there’s some that are basically out of ammo finishers like the magnum. The carbine is great for distance suppression. The ar is good. The needler is useful in bariouv combos as is the spikers and SMG. The plasma rifles stun can get abused. Bruteshot is a good lane clearer/blocker mauler is a beast. Rippables added a new facet of big power but vulnerable. BR was made less reliable at range and easily bested at close making it more a mid weapon. Power weapons do there respective jobs. The sandbox has alot of utility with defined roles. To be honest the smaller scope of CE sandbox means it has less redundancy but still I see 3 as being more defined and balanced. Halo 4 and 5 has a lot of over lap and redundancy. I could prob do with a refresher on reaches. Halo 2 I feel is similar to 3 but has less usable options or utility.
The Competitive scene In Halo besides 3 always boiled down to one gun really. In any comp setting something will always end up being meta. My only problem with the pistol In Halo 5 is just due to the fact that my secondary is my go to and not my primary. It always has just been weird to me