I would argue that it’s clever. Simple (in terms of outcome - not the maths behind it). Rewarding in that it accurately ranks you very quickly. At least as good (in terms of accuracy) to any other ELO system out there, if not better. And represents your effort of play in the best possible way - by telling you your rank.
You don’t need to understand the maths behind it. I can only stick with the concepts up to a certain point.
But it’s a ranking system. After a few games it tells you your rank.
The “bad” part of the system is the communication from 343 - and how player’s are left floundering wondering what they need to do to rank up.
The “feel good” aspect is up to 343. I think we need an XP rank of some sort. Weighted to wins and performance.
Sorry. Haven’t played LOL.
I get the need to reward effort. But surely an XP rank can do that just fine.
The skill bit is the only relevant bit for skill ranking though?
In what way? And how is it different from TrueSkill2?
Once you have reached your skill ceiling in Halo it is pretty much a huge mountain to climb.
That sounds pretty much like a one way trip to the top.
And yes, I know enough about LOL to know it wouldn’t actually work like that.
I feel like I probably have a similar play style. I die way too much sometimes tho, but it’s probably because I’m playing with people way better than me at times and their lobbies are insane.
I wish arena didn’t have slayer in it. Slayer needs its own playlist for ranked. I used to only player slayer, but I love objective modes man. Probably because spawns and enemy pathways are just way more predictable. I feel like without playing ctf, a person can’t say they’ve experienced halo man! It’s just so much fun.
Yea, I would love a Ranked Slayer and Ranked Skirmish playlist.
My big take away here is even if the rank system is “good” or “balanced”, it’s not fun, fair or even comprehendible at face value.
There’s one guy on the forum that somehow knows a bunch about it…he doesn’t work at 343i and everyone else seems to dislike the system.
I remember when the game launched 343i encouraged fans to give feedback on the forums…we are doing that and they’re not responding to the community….very frustrating….
Hi Darwi,
thanks again for trying to help us make sense of Trueskill 2.
A lot of what you say makes sense but doesn’t really take into account “Boosters”. Platinum’s that team up with Silvers, diamonds or even Onyx with gold etc. It’s clearly working for them otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it.
They are clearly still gaining rank and CSR, and even if they lose the match, since the competition is usually so much lower they are able to get lots of kills and end with a great KDA where they will only lose minimal, and usually 0 CSR.
Loop hole? Flaw?
Personally I hate everything about boosters but would like to get your take.
Thanks.
a) increase their odds of winning.
b) maximise their KPM and minimise their DPM.
My understanding is that they end up grinding small amounts of CSR for each win.
Because their KPM is solid and the teams matched on paper they can bump up their MMR as well - but generally their CSR goes up much higher.
Thus they tend to lose a lot for every loss. Usually the full 15 points.
But they don’t lose very often because at least one of the low ranked accounts is usually a smurf account. They usually play dead to the let the grinders maximise their KPM - but they can add their muscle if needed.
And after all that, if they still aren’t getting the result they are looking for they can get one, or both, of the burner accounts to quit. That way the maximum they lose for a “loss” is 3 points.
So they grind and grind and grind…
Definitely a loop hole.
Some games stop this by not allowing you to squad up with players of uneven ranks.
343 have at least started heading in that direction.
Ideally you would have separate ranks for each squad. ie. you have a rank for yourself playing solo. A rank for playing with mate A. Another for B. And another for playing with mates A and C, etc. But the data footprint would be huge.
Or you have to validate your rank regularly by playing matches solo. The MMR could briefly be made volatile again to re-rank the player as appropriate.
Personally I would;
Cap the maximum CSR to stop the toxic grind. Better still, reduce the scale of the CSR entirely. Make it Gold 1 to Onyx 10. Or 1 to 117.
The MMR can still be open ended to aid match making accuracy.
Have a champion system where every time there are 8 Onyx players in the game with acceptable pings across the board the game is played for points. The winners get a point each. Then have seasonal tables showing regional and even world standings.
At least that focuses the grind in right direction.
You could even have similar tables for each division. Or squad ranges. So you could have players going for points in their “weight division”.
At the very least it gives you a “reward” for winning games that don’t necessarily result in you ranking up skill wise.
I think quitters and people who squad up and que in to game with quitters should both get an EQULLY HUGE CSR punishment. I’m thinking a whole entire level or so lost for both players. There’s got to be a way to distinguish from a true “quit” and an AFK kick/true disconnect.
Also, there should be a three strikes your out rule or something…quit three games and your account locks from queuing for for 72 hours or something.
There seems to be so many obvious solutions to these silly problems…but 343i is just radio silent. Which makes it feels like 343i is incompetent or they just don’t give an F about stuff like this. I wish they would realize what a negative effect this has on the community and the experience at large.
Except that overall random disconnects should reflect a random state of the game. They should be just as likely any time during. And you should be in front just as often as you are behind.
A pattern of quitting early when your are behind (either personally or as a team) should be obvious over time.
The problem is taking away CSR doesn’t do a lot.
Their MMR is now way higher and does everything it can to pull the CSR back up as quickly as it can.
And you can’t penalise their MMR because that would be the same as Smurfing their account. They would probably like that.
I think they will end up roasting in a special place in Hell. But it’s hard to see what else 343 can do.
sorry to bug you again,
.
But trying to make sense of something else.
I’m Plat 5 in open but seem to be stuck at gold 4 in controller solo/duo for months. Shouldn’t my MMR be pulling me up faster? Seems like it really wants to keep me there, tougher opponents always higher ranked. Often small to medium gains and massive points lost for losses. Still get good points in open for wins and don’t get hit all that bad for losses there. Are there separate MMR’s for both Ranked and Controller?
You have a global MMR that has all your recent game history. This is the bit where the system uses form and time since last game etc to adjust match making etc.
Each mode then has an offset MMR.
Each one is still a probability curve. It has it’s own mu and sigma values. And behaves just as expected - volatile early (wide) and more stable later (narrow). So early on it can be influenced by your global MMR - but as it narrows and stabilises it becomes more independent of the global value.
So your Gold 4 is probably a bit locked by now (after months of play). It’s not as bad as H3 - you can still push it up - but it will be slow and require sustained good performances.
If it’s giving you tougher opponents it probably wants to rank you up. You just need to beat them to show the system you deserve to.
