Is it even possible for Halo 5 to be worse than Halo 4?
To date, every single Main-Halo game was worse than its predecessor, but is this even possible at this point?
While waiting for the release of Halo 4 and playing Reach I remember me saying “NOTHING could be worse than this!” (my friends still rag me with this) and with November, 6th 2012 I was proved wrong.
So, how could 343i make Halo 5 an even worse Halo game than H4?
If you want to talk about how Halo could be worse, feel free to do so with other friends/members privately, but from my experience here, I’d say that this thread has nothing positive to contribute to the forums and isn’t really appropriate.
> Is it even possible for Halo 5 to be worse than Halo 4?
> To date, every single Main-Halo game was worse than its predecessor, but is this even possible at this point?
> While waiting for the release of Halo 4 and playing Reach I remember me saying “NOTHING could be worse than this!” (my friends still rag me with this) and with November, 6th 2012 I was proved wrong.
>
> So, how could 343i make Halo 5 an even worse Halo game than H4?
Firstly, you start a thread presupposing that Halo 4 was awful…
The more important question is, if we were to accept your position, why are you still playing the game after 3 awful sequels?
Surely you should have quit after 2? 3? 4?
> Is it even possible for Halo 5 to be worse than Halo 4?
> To date, every single Main-Halo game was worse than its predecessor in my opinion, but is this even possible at this point?
Fixed that for you 
Well, that is quite subjective as I’m sure a lot of forum members here swear that Halo 3 is the best of the series so far. For others, it’s Halo 2/Halo CE.
Anyone can make a game worse. Just add a weapon that shoots rainbow coloured Unicorn cookies.
Let me ask you this though…what would you like changed from Halo 4 so that Halo 5 is better in your opinion? Might make a more interesting topic to discuss.
I don’t know, I love every Halo before Reach. Hated the Halo Reach beta, after playing the main game I still disliked it but then I thought nothing could get worse than Reach but Halo 4 proved me wrong.
I doubt anything could be worse than Halo 4 but I have been proven wrong once, so for now I’m keeping an open mind for now until I see more of Halo 5, if all goes well then I’ll pre-order the Halo 5 console. Anyway I’d wait till 343i show’s more things before I make any decision, I understand the doubts about Halo 5.
Also hating 4 doesn’t mean people would automatically hate halo 1/2/3 also the originally trilogy is the best in the series.
> Also hating 4 doesn’t mean people would automatically hate halo 1/2/3 also the originally trilogy is the best in the series.
Eh, it’s all a matter of opinion, really. I love Halo to death, but for me, it’s all been downhill since Halo 2 started to stray from CE. Do I like the rest of the Halo games? Of course. But nothing will ever beat CE, so I don’t hold them up to that standard expecting them to.
> Anyone can make a game worse. Just add a weapon that shoots rainbow coloured Unicorn cookies.
Add horse-drifting and I would play the hell out of that.
I think keeping the game about Master Chief vs the Forerunners is the only way the game could get worse. Then again, the best Halo campaign was in Reach. The missions were varied and fun, the music was superb, the characters were all interesting, the cutscenes felt natural and smoothly transitioned into gameplay, space battles… It offered everything and had great pacing. Not to mention the best part… you got to play as your own custom spartan in CAMPAIGN.
Halo 4 was great and the multiplayer is still fun to me. However, I found the campaign to be a one playthrough wonder. The second mission being the best, I didn’t like prometheans at all. They feel robotic which isn’t fun to fight in any game.
I think the perfect Halo game would be a blend of Reach’s Campaign and MP organization, Halo 3’s weapon count and MP support, fire fight, spartan ops, and I’d kind of like to see a hub world like ODST did but that’s just me.
Here are my Halo games from least favorite to favorite in terms of the Campaign.
Halo 2 - Halo 3 ODST - Halo Reach - Halo 4 - Halo CEA - Halo 3.
> Is it even possible for Halo 5 to be worse than Halo 4?
> To date, every single Main-Halo game was worse than its predecessor, but is this even possible at this point?
> While waiting for the release of Halo 4 and playing Reach I remember me saying “NOTHING could be worse than this!” (my friends still rag me with this) and with November, 6th 2012 I was proved wrong.
>
> So, how could 343i make Halo 5 an even worse Halo game than H4?
Implying Halo 4 was (objectively) that bad to begin with. Yes, there are people that don’t like the game, and there are people who will argue until they’re blue in the face how bad they think the game is. But those are subjective opinions.
Implying that “every single main-Halo game has been worse than it’s predecessor” is an entirely subjective opinion. Personally, I don’t think Halo: C.E. is that good, especially compared to modern installments in the franchise and other games. The controls aren’t too good, the dialogue and voice acting is reflective of it’s age (not that good) and there is FAR too much back-tracking. Doesn’t mean I hate the game, though. Just that I like it less that, say, Halo 4 which I believe to be the best installment yet. But that’s entirely my opinion.
Instead of thinking how much worse Halo 5 COULD be compared to Halo 4, how about looking forward to the positive things about the game?
> Is it even possible for Halo 5 to be worse than Halo 4?
> To date, every single Main-Halo game was worse than its predecessor, but is this even possible at this point?
> While waiting for the release of Halo 4 and playing Reach I remember me saying “NOTHING could be worse than this!” (my friends still rag me with this) and with November, 6th 2012 I was proved wrong.
>
> So, how could 343i make Halo 5 an even worse Halo game than H4?
Your first sentence instantly gives off the true nature of this thread: it exists solely to aggravate the community and has little value for discussion.
Your second sentence is CLEARLY a reflection of YOUR opinion, and you’ll find that a lot of people will disagree with it as well. Again, very little value for a constructive discussion.
Your third sentence is essentially just bashing Halo 4 without giving any facts to support yourself. And your last sentence just brings it all together, and tells me that your thread focuses on how bad something can be, rather than how it can be improved.
What can I say about this?
There is little value for even a remotely constructive discussion here, and making threads like these certainly doesn’t help 343i do better with Halo 5.
I’ve fanatically played and loved every Halo up until Halo 4. The core was gone completely there. Once the core is gone it doesn’t get any worse.
> I’ve fanatically played and loved every Halo up until Halo 4. The core was gone completely there. Once the core is gone it doesn’t get any worse.
I loved Halo 4 and I’ve played every Halo except Halo 2. It still feels like Halo to me. The core aspects of the game are still there, there are just a couple of additions. The only things I don’t like are the loadouts, Perks, Camo, Promethean vision, and flinch. Maybe that’s just because I’m incredibly optimistic to the point of enjoying most things though.
> > I’ve fanatically played and loved every Halo up until Halo 4. The core was gone completely there. Once the core is gone it doesn’t get any worse.
>
> I loved Halo 4 and I’ve played every Halo except Halo 2. It still feels like Halo to me. The core aspects of the game are still there, there are just a couple of additions. The only things I don’t like are the loadouts, Perks, Camo, Promethean vision, and flinch. Maybe that’s just because I’m incredibly optimistic to the point of enjoying most things though.
I started with Halo 2. Granted the latter games in the trilogy deviated from Halo’s core a little bit too, but they stuck to the (even Reach did as well) core gameplay. When I play Halo 4, I am bombarded by elements that were added to the core that simply shatter it like sprint, ordnance, personal loadouts, perks, crippled vehicular combat, and trashy AA’s (granted AL sucked almost as bad). Not to mention it’s not just what was added but what was taken away, like 1/2 of all custom games options and the loss of some 5-6 or so gametypes. Plus Forge environments were disappointing, and the weapons were not balanced, and I could go on…
The core things that made Halo, Halo are now tweaked poorly or gone. I’m sad and upset.
> > > I’ve fanatically played and loved every Halo up until Halo 4. The core was gone completely there. Once the core is gone it doesn’t get any worse.
> >
> > I loved Halo 4 and I’ve played every Halo except Halo 2. It still feels like Halo to me. The core aspects of the game are still there, there are just a couple of additions. The only things I don’t like are the loadouts, Perks, Camo, Promethean vision, and flinch. Maybe that’s just because I’m incredibly optimistic to the point of enjoying most things though.
>
> I started with Halo 2. Granted the latter games in the trilogy deviated from Halo’s core a little bit too, but they stuck to the (even Reach did as well) core gameplay. When I play Halo 4, I am bombarded by elements that were added to the core that simply shatter it like sprint, ordnance, personal loadouts, perks, crippled vehicular combat, and trashy AA’s (granted AL sucked almost as bad). Not to mention it’s not just what was added but what was taken away, like 1/2 of all custom games options and the loss of some 5-6 or so gametypes. Plus Forge environments were disappointing, and the weapons were not balanced, and I could go on…
>
> The core things that made Halo, Halo are now tweaked poorly or gone. I’m sad and upset.
These extra elements don’t “shatter” the core. They’re merely added onto it, the core gameplay and the golden triangle is still there. With the increase in map pick-up weapons, ordnance isn’t really detrimental to the game any more. It was only harmful when map pick-ups were removed to pave the way for ordnance. Loadouts aren’t so bad, I’d rather see them gone though tbh. They aren’t particularly harmful however except when it comes to plasma pistols and plasma grenades; they should be abundant map pick-ups. The vehicle combat isn’t as good yes, but it can be fixed with a bit of tweaking. Still, it’s okay. The AAs aren’t so much of a problem for me aside from the two that I mentioned in my previous post. I quite enjoy them actually. I’m on the fence about whether or not I like sprint. I’d probably rather just see a removal of sprint with an increased movement speed. The weapon balance IMO is perfectly fine in Halo 4.
The core elements that made Halo, Halo, are still there, there’s simply some additions. These additions don’t make the core gameplay disappear.
> > > I’ve fanatically played and loved every Halo up until Halo 4. The core was gone completely there. Once the core is gone it doesn’t get any worse.
> >
> > I loved Halo 4 and I’ve played every Halo except Halo 2. It still feels like Halo to me. The core aspects of the game are still there, there are just a couple of additions. The only things I don’t like are the loadouts, Perks, Camo, Promethean vision, and flinch. Maybe that’s just because I’m incredibly optimistic to the point of enjoying most things though.
>
> When I play Halo 4, I am bombarded by elements that were added to the core that simply shatter it like sprint, ordnance, personal loadouts, perks, crippled vehicular combat, and trashy AA’s (granted AL sucked almost as bad).
I wouldn’t say that Sprint and Personal Loadouts shatter the Core Gameplay as a concept, but they sure as hell do in their current form. It is, in fact, possible to adjust BOTH of these features to allow them to be considered “arena”, but it’s all based on execution.
Obviously, Halo 4 did a very bad job at executing each an every one of these features. Loadouts can work provided that you limit them to items that don’t result in unpredictable gameplay, and regulate them to a small choice of balanced weapons. Features that break the current form of Personal Loadouts are Armor Abilities, Armor Mods, the ability to choose grenades and spawn with an EMP and 1sk weapon, and the ability to spawn with mini-snipers that restrict map-movement. If you remove all of these features, and have all remaining options available from the start, there’d be balance. The final step is ensuring that Loadouts don’t effect the sandbox itself, which is also easy.
The final end result of a perfectly balanced PL system is the following “Pick any Two” system:
Pick any Two:
- Assault Rifle- Storm Rifle- SMG (ODST)- Spiker Rifle- Battle Rifle- Covenant Carbine- Magnum (ODST)- Needle Pistol
As for Sprint, I think it’s main issues are the “Get outta jail free card” and its effect on map design. Both of these issues can be fixed easily.
> Not to mention it’s not just what was added but what was taken away, like 1/2 of all custom games options and the loss of some 5-6 or so gametypes. Plus Forge environments were disappointing, and the weapons were not balanced, and I could go on…
Custom Games is something I can agree with there - they’ve been butchered.
However, at least with issues such as Forge and the Weapon Balance we got adequate fixes for them. We got a massive Forge Map (for free and two weeks early), and 343i went out of their way to release a massive update that effectively balances almost every weapon and restores most of them to their Classic Function.
I wish Bungie showed the same level of dedication for us during times like these (cough Halo Reach cough)
> > > > I’ve fanatically played and loved every Halo up until Halo 4. The core was gone completely there. Once the core is gone it doesn’t get any worse.
> > >
> > > I loved Halo 4 and I’ve played every Halo except Halo 2. It still feels like Halo to me. The core aspects of the game are still there, there are just a couple of additions. The only things I don’t like are the loadouts, Perks, Camo, Promethean vision, and flinch. Maybe that’s just because I’m incredibly optimistic to the point of enjoying most things though.
> >
> > I started with Halo 2. Granted the latter games in the trilogy deviated from Halo’s core a little bit too, but they stuck to the (even Reach did as well) core gameplay. When I play Halo 4, I am bombarded by elements that were added to the core that simply shatter it like sprint, ordnance, personal loadouts, perks, crippled vehicular combat, and trashy AA’s (granted AL sucked almost as bad). Not to mention it’s not just what was added but what was taken away, like 1/2 of all custom games options and the loss of some 5-6 or so gametypes. Plus Forge environments were disappointing, and the weapons were not balanced, and I could go on…
> >
> > The core things that made Halo, Halo are now tweaked poorly or gone. I’m sad and upset.
>
> These extra elements don’t “shatter” the core. They’re merely added onto it, the core gameplay and <mark>the golden triangle is still there.</mark> With the increase in map pick-up weapons, <mark>ordnance isn’t really detrimental to the game any more.</mark> It was only harmful when map pick-ups were removed to pave the way for ordnance. Loadouts aren’t so bad, I’d rather see them gone though tbh. They aren’t particularly harmful however except when it comes to plasma pistols and plasma grenades; they should be abundant map pick-ups. <mark>The vehicle combat isn’t as good yes, but it can be fixed with a bit of tweaking.</mark> Still, it’s okay. <mark>The AAs aren’t so much of a problem for me aside from the two that I mentioned in my previous post.</mark> I quite enjoy them actually. <mark>I’m on the fence about whether or not I like sprint. I’d probably rather just see a removal of sprint with an increased movement speed.</mark> <mark>The weapon balance IMO is perfectly fine in Halo 4.</mark>
>
> The core elements that made Halo, Halo, are still there, there’s simply some additions. These additions don’t make the core gameplay disappear.
No, it isn’t. We now have something I call the tarnished quintangle. Ordnance, Shoot, Melee, Camoflauge, and grenades.
It’s still detrimental as long as it’s random and has such a low point minimum to achieve. It’s a flawed concept for an Arena shooter.
Agreed it can be fixed, but paper vehicles are still paper vehicles…
Admittedly, most aren’t as bad as I made them out to be. However I still hold that they should be map-pickups except thruster pack.
Amen.
It is now. I was referring to pre-TU Halo 4. That was a nightmare.
> > > > I’ve fanatically played and loved every Halo up until Halo 4. The core was gone completely there. Once the core is gone it doesn’t get any worse.
> > >
> > > I loved Halo 4 and I’ve played every Halo except Halo 2. It still feels like Halo to me. The core aspects of the game are still there, there are just a couple of additions. The only things I don’t like are the loadouts, Perks, Camo, Promethean vision, and flinch. Maybe that’s just because I’m incredibly optimistic to the point of enjoying most things though.
> >
> > When I play Halo 4, I am bombarded by elements that were added to the core that simply shatter it like sprint, ordnance, personal loadouts, perks, crippled vehicular combat, and trashy AA’s (granted AL sucked almost as bad).
>
> I wouldn’t say that Sprint and Personal Loadouts shatter the Core Gameplay as a concept, but they sure as hell do in their current form. It is, in fact, possible to adjust BOTH of these features to allow them to be considered “arena”, but it’s all based on execution.
>
> Obviously, Halo 4 did a very bad job at executing each an every one of these features. Loadouts can work provided that you limit them to items that don’t result in unpredictable gameplay, and regulate them to a small choice of balanced weapons. Features that break the current form of Personal Loadouts are Armor Abilities, Armor Mods, the ability to choose grenades and spawn with an EMP and 1sk weapon, and the ability to spawn with mini-snipers that restrict map-movement. If you remove all of these features, and have all remaining options available from the start, there’d be balance. The final step is ensuring that Loadouts don’t effect the sandbox itself, which is also easy.
>
> The final end result of a perfectly balanced PL system is the following “Pick any Two” system:
>
>
>
> Pick any Two:
> - Assault Rifle- Storm Rifle- SMG (ODST)- Spiker Rifle- Battle Rifle- Covenant Carbine- Magnum (ODST)- Needle Pistol
>
>
> As for Sprint, I think it’s main issues are the “Get outta jail free card” and its effect on map design. Both of these issues can be fixed easily.
> - The “Get outta Jail for free card” effect is silenced by a de-sprint mechanic that works identically to de-scope. Essentially, you are forced out of sprint when taking enemy fire (the sprint meter resets as well). Not only will you not have to worry about chasing people down when the cower away, but sprint now be only effective in allowing you to reach your teammates faster, which is a good thing.
> - The swollen map size issues is more complex, but still completely fixable. There are two possible ways to fix it. You can either use Classic sized maps and adjust the player speeds for “Sprint-supporting” gametypes to work seamlessly. Or, you can stick with the larger map sizes, and increase the base player speed for Classic Gameplay - which would allow strafing to be more effective. Regardless of how it’s done, everyone wins.
>
>
>
> > Not to mention it’s not just what was added but what was taken away, like 1/2 of all custom games options and the loss of some 5-6 or so gametypes. Plus Forge environments were disappointing, and the weapons were not balanced, and I could go on…
>
> Custom Games is something I can agree with there - they’ve been butchered.
>
> However, at least with issues such as Forge and the Weapon Balance we got adequate fixes for them. We got a massive Forge Map (for free and two weeks early), and 343i went out of their way to release a massive update that effectively balances almost every weapon and restores most of them to their Classic Function.
>
> I wish Bungie showed the same level of dedication for us during times like these (cough Halo Reach cough)
I’m inclined to agree with a few of your points, however I will not play another Halo game without sprint either taking a backseat or gone. I will not.
Secondly, I can deal with a simplified loadout system, but I’d prefer presets or equal starts. In my opinion you have a good start for PL’s, but I think it’d be better if we had this instead:
Loadout choices:
Loadout 1
-Battle Rifle
-M6K Magnum (4sk, reduced ROF, 6-round magazine)
-1 Frag
Loadout 2
-Covenant Carbine (Needle Rifle if it returns.)
-Storm Rifle (If NR returns use needle pistol mentioned by GHOST of MA1NE instead)
-1 Frag
And lastly, I recognize 343’s ability to balance their game 7 months after it was released. They did a good job, I just want that job done at launch not half a year later.
P.S. I noticed you neglected to mention ordnance, did you have anything to share on that or are you of the mindset that it needs to burn in it’s own drop pod?
> The more important question is, if we were to accept your position, why are you still playing the game after 3 awful sequels?
>
> Surely you should have quit after 2? 3? 4?
They weren’t afwul, the multiplayer of each title just wasn’t as good as that of the previous game.
> Let me ask you this though…what would you like changed from Halo 4 so that Halo 5 is better in your opinion? Might make a more interesting topic to discuss.
It’s not from me, but I agree with the most of it.
> I think keeping the game about Master Chief vs the Forerunners is the only way the game could get worse. Then again, the best Halo campaign was in Reach. The missions were varied and fun, the music was superb, the characters were all interesting, the cutscenes felt natural and smoothly transitioned into gameplay, space battles… It offered everything and had great pacing. Not to mention the best part… you got to play as your own custom spartan in CAMPAIGN.
I also liked Reach’s campaign a lot and I agree with you that the gameplay (if one can say so) of Halo 4’s campaign just felt dull and boring. I can’t exactly name what caused this, but the forerunners are one reason for this.
> Implying that “every single main-Halo game has been worse than it’s predecessor” is an entirely subjective opinion. Personally, I don’t think Halo: C.E. is that good, especially compared to modern installments in the franchise and other games. The controls aren’t too good, the dialogue and voice acting is reflective of it’s age (not that good) and there is FAR too much back-tracking. Doesn’t mean I hate the game, though. Just that I like it less that, say, Halo 4 which I believe to be the best installment yet. But that’s entirely my opinion.
I forgot to mention that I was solely referring to the multiplayer. My bad. I don’t see a downfall in the quality of the campaigns (although I didn’t like H4’s campaign, but I really liked ODST’s and Reach’s).
As much as halo has changed first person shooters, halo’s rise and fall is of its own demise. Clearly the peak was halo reach, and even dialed back some of the evolution the series made by removing dual-wielding. As halo 4 became “just another F.P.S.” because it blandly was so similar to others, less and less people care or play. Either way Halo was the premier shooting game for a long time, and brought the F.P.S. genre back from the dead after so many “Doom” clones in the 1990’s. If you cannot get a fair game in halo anymore why play? Why buy xbox one? Even if halo 5 does not “suck” xbox one has nothing worth its price. It has already subscribed to mediocrity with a horde of launch titles that are to be desired. Why would anyone spend that kind of money on a console? Don’t you have friends and family to spend it on? If not go rescue a dog or cat… if we stop paying for trash they will stop making it
> If you want to talk about how Halo could be worse, feel free to do so with other friends/members privately, but from my experience here, I’d say that this thread has nothing positive to contribute to the forums and isn’t really appropriate.
> There is little value for even a remotely constructive discussion here, and making threads like these certainly doesn’t help 343i do better with Halo 5.
People seem to be far to keen to dismiss this thread on the basis that they highly disagree with it or find it provoking. It is that self righteous behaviour that is truly non-constructive.
I don’t need an “in my own opinion” to preface the argument to understand that this is what he believes is the situation. EVERYTHING on this forum is an opinion.
To him, the series has declined and, if I’m interpreting it right, feels that Halo 4 was such a failure that by default Halo 5 cannot get any worse.
To which he adds, which I find the actual point of discussion, what can 343 do to make Halo worse? Even if it is a highly opinionated point it is something to consider.
On topic:
I agree that some titles have certainly failed their predecessor and in away all of them do as Halo sets a truly high benchmark not only for other games but for itself.
In order for 343 to make Halo 5 an even worse game than Halo 4, which I find a hard task, they would have to continue to force changes or fail to change areas that the community launched a rebellion against. For instance, I will be highly disappointed if Halo 5 it:
-Gives me the exact same forge system from 4, which was a carbon copy of Reach’s.
-Fails to recognise the need to cater for casuals as well as competitive players.
-Fails to correct their undeniable mistakes with custom games