Can Armor Abilities fit in competitively?

This is a simple question I ask. In a competitive setting, could AAs fit? I can understand why they didn’t in Reach, jetpack could break map control with a height advantage, active camo was a camper’s friend, hologram was useless and so on and so forth. To me, the problem seemed to reside in the fact EVERYONE had them. So what if in a competitive playlist, armor abilities were map pick ups?

THEORETICAL EXAMPLES

Jetpack could help establish map control for a better skilled team.

Promethean Vision can help find rival players that a better team can hunt down through communication.

Hardlight Shield can help push towards the enemies area of control and provide protection of allies.

So I just want to know, is there some merit here? I’m no hardcore, competitive player but I don’t want to see such players left out in the dark YET I don’t want to see new features cut.

I think that they already fit in very well.

Plus, then all of the noobs would complain about AA being pickups instead of everyone having them. and the worst part is, those noobs will be the same ones complaining about how AA are to overpowered since everyone has them.

I think a mix of both could be in order:

Abilities like Thruster Pack, Hard Light Shield and Promethean Vision(toned down from E3 build) could be a standard default, as they are easy to counter and get around. Meanwhile, Jump Pack and Cloak are pick ups or rewards for completing objectives or getting a certain amount of kills due to their map-breaking ability. Hologram could be not worthless by having them implemented as bots who can’t deal damage or take much damage.

> I think that they already fit in very well.
>
> <mark>Plus, then all of the noobs would complain about AA being pickups instead of everyone having them.</mark> and the worst part is, those noobs will be the same ones complaining about how AA are to overpowered since everyone has them.

And I counter that idea with the notion of not everyone can have a rocket launcher because it isn’t fair one or two are on a map. You have to get them and establish control.

No, they unbalance the game. Sprint kinda works

> Jetpack could help establish map control for a better skilled team.

Aswell as break it.

You can’t have both.

> No, they unbalance the game. Sprint kinda works

Would you argue that Overshield as a map pick up unbalances the game? When everyone has AAs I see your point, but if they are on the map and only one person can use a jetpack, is it unbalanced?

As map pickups, they would fit. In fact, the whole game would be light years ahead of the state it’s in now with only the small change of making every armor ability a pickup and modifying some. Granted, hard light shield is an ability I haven’t thought proper use to. However, as far as everything else goes, they’d fit. Some with modifications and some very much as they currently are.

It depends on how the competitive side is handled. Competitive does not only equal MLG so many things can be done competitively, grifball.

If the maps are designed for the armour abilities then yeah. Perhaps maps where architectures are made to encourage various armour abilities being used in harmony.

I agree. I really do question the decisions the sandbox designer makes at times.

>

This would work much better then being able to spawn with jetpack or camo

Although its still hard to tell if Competitive playlists will use them all or cut a few out

Also doing it this way is similar to how halo 3 equipment worked except you will be able to use them until you die

I support this idea

> > No, they unbalance the game. Sprint kinda works
>
> Would you argue that Overshield as a map pick up unbalances the game? When everyone has AAs I see your point, but if they are on the map and only one person can use a jetpack, is it unbalanced?

Overshield rewards the team with better map control every 3 minutes.

> >
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> This would work much better then being able to spawn with jetpack or camo
>
> Although its still hard to tell if Competitive playlists will use them all or cut a few out
>
> Also doing it this way is similar to how halo 3 equipment worked except you will be able to use them until you die
>
>
>
>
> I support this idea

If the maps are designed with AAs in mind, I think they will have to be included. If I recall, that is why classic Reach was a failure.

> I think a mix of both could be in order:
>
> Abilities like Thruster Pack, Hard Light Shield and Promethean Vision(toned down from E3 build) could be a standard default, as they are easy to counter and get around. Meanwhile, Jump Pack and Cloak are pick ups or rewards for completing objectives or getting a certain amount of kills due to their map-breaking ability. <mark>Hologram could be not worthless by having them implemented as bots who can’t deal damage or take much damage.</mark>

Would this even be possible? Because that would make holo BEAST. Even if it just points at the nearest enemy as it runs in a straight line would be a huge improvement. I already love holo, i don’t use it often, but when I do I switch mid-game and totally screw with people.

> > I think a mix of both could be in order:
> >
> > Abilities like Thruster Pack, Hard Light Shield and Promethean Vision(toned down from E3 build) could be a standard default, as they are easy to counter and get around. Meanwhile, Jump Pack and Cloak are pick ups or rewards for completing objectives or getting a certain amount of kills due to their map-breaking ability. <mark>Hologram could be not worthless by having them implemented as bots who can’t deal damage or take much damage.</mark>
>
> Would this even be possible? Because that would make holo BEAST. Even if it just points at the nearest enemy as it runs in a straight line would be a huge improvement. I already love holo, i don’t use it often, but when I do I switch mid-game and totally screw with people.

To be honest, I don’t understand why it wasn’t implemented like that in the first place. Though such a thing might make it… too useful. The troll factor alone…

> > > I think a mix of both could be in order:
> > >
> > > Abilities like Thruster Pack, Hard Light Shield and Promethean Vision(toned down from E3 build) could be a standard default, as they are easy to counter and get around. Meanwhile, Jump Pack and Cloak are pick ups or rewards for completing objectives or getting a certain amount of kills due to their map-breaking ability. <mark>Hologram could be not worthless by having them implemented as bots who can’t deal damage or take much damage.</mark>
> >
> > Would this even be possible? Because that would make holo BEAST. Even if it just points at the nearest enemy as it runs in a straight line would be a huge improvement. I already love holo, i don’t use it often, but when I do I switch mid-game and totally screw with people.
>
> To be honest, I don’t understand why it wasn’t implemented like that in the first place. Though such a thing might make it… too useful. The troll factor alone…

I would be one of those trolls. >:) Someone with a keen eye could easily figure it out. Or nerf it a bit, Like have it flicker every second or so in addition to when it gets shot.

> This is a simple question I ask. In a competitive setting, could AAs fit?

Of course.

Just not in the definition that most people in the forums use competitive.

I think that it is possible. I think that people need to be open to possibilities and at the same time other need to accept that sometimes changes are necessary for competitive environments.

It would be nice if some could fit in as loadouts while maybe others like the Jetpack or Active Camo would end up as power ups.

AAs done properly can fit, specializations are another issue. Though I am fine with most of them, resupply needs to have died in a fire a long time ago. I can pick up ammo for any weapon from any enemy and can even take vehicles from my slain enemies but we can’t have grenades unless we have resupply because…?

And don’t say “because of grenade spam” because that is bunch of crap well balanced grenades(which Reach did not have) make it a non issue. Its part of the golden triangle, I shouldn’t need special permission to pick it up from an enemy I beat fair and square

I actually really like this idea.

They would be great as map-pickups for competitive play

Can AA’s Fit within competitive Halo? Yes, and believe me the competitive community deeply appreciates 343’s efforts to balance and counter-balance AA’s to work in benefiting all types of play-styles. The question never has been whether AA’s can fit with the traditional Arena-style of play, its can AA’s benefit competitive play like for example power-ups have done in multiple FPS.

If I had to give a quick run-down on H4 AA’s right now, it would look like this:

  1. Thruster Pack- Dissapointed that this ability will basically act as a “nerfed evade” and not be the potential “super-strafe” ability I envisioned when I first heard about it. The ability to shoot while thruster packing is maybe seen as OP by 343 and that is why it is the way it is, but I dont see why someone should be able to shoot while jetpacking and not thruster pack while shooting. To add to that, I dont see how being able to shoot while thruster packing would be OP at all but I digress. Regardless, this ability will most likely benefit competitive play either as an AA or a pick-up as balanced movement enhancement usually does(See UT).

  2. Promethean Vision- At first everyone was automatically saying “NO WAY” when we first saw the MLG pros abuse it at E3 and how it acted as a crutch for players with poor awareness, but after 343 has rightly nerfed it closer to a possible “Scout ability” than a “Wall-hack” by reducing the recharge rate and use we will have to see how if it balanced enough to warrant intelligent play instead of just spam with it. Most likely a pick-up if were talking MLG settings here, but you never know.

  3. Hard-light Shield- This one definitely will slow down gameplay and act as a sort of crutch like AL, but it definitely is closer to a “Block” than “Invincibility” which is a huge improvement. I have seen HLS being used intelligently to bait enemies and control choke-points, and then I have seen it being used the same way as AL to just sponge bullets or thrown up when a player is losing a gun battle. Either way its still a “Bullet sponge” and most likely will not be something competitive players like. Again, AA or pick-up nobody really knows but im leaning pick-up on this one.

  4. Hologram- Doesn’t really matter, only useful in sniper gametypes.

343 has announced that we havent seen the whole H4 Sandbox yet, so there is sure to be more AA’s and potential for good/bad AA’s in the retail game, but as it looks right now abilities will NOT be barred from competitive play and are MUCH better balanced and counter-balanced than Reach AA’s. I would love to see AA’s and load-outs develop more strategy and set-ups in Halo’s meta-game, but it all comes down to implementation of the AA’s/pick-ups to benefit competitive play which 343 has done well so far.

Edit: Camo and OS will and should be power-ups, anything that bolsters player traits(Transparency,health,weapon damage) should be a pick-up in Halo to promote a fair and smooth flowing game.