Playing through the campaign, I honestly didn’t find my fireteam to be interesting. Now with Blue Team, it is justified for their bland personality as the members are canonically trained to have a neutral, bland personality. However, I would have liked to see more distinct personalities with the members of Fireteam Osiris, considering that they are more like humans than machines. I didn’t have a liking to Vale nor Tanaka as they didn’t show too much expression in the game. To be frank Tanaka even felt like she was only there to even out the number of men and women on the team.
In order to make them feel more interactive and dynamic, they should have more distinct personalities, similar to how members of Left 4 Dead teams are. In Left 4 Dead, each team member has one of four types of personalities:
-Optimistic (Louis and Ellis)
-Pessimistic (Francis and Nick)
-Leader (Bill and Coach)
-Detached (Zoey and Rochelle)
With these four distinct personalities, each team member in Left 4 Dead feels unique and valuable. Whenever one team member dies, it truly feels like the team lost someone important. In comparison to the squad in Halo 5, the team members don’t feel as important. I don’t feel bad if Vale gets killed or if Fred gets stuck by a grenade. They don’t feel dynamic, unique, or interactive with their bland personality.
You should read these. Osiris actually has a pretty good character arc for all it’s members, I suggest starting with the analysis of the first mission, and continue on from there. It’ll give you a deeper insight to Fireteam Osiris.
Sorry, but the Spartan-IIs of Blue Team are far from bland - and have multiple full-length novels in which their relationships are developed and their unique personalities are highlighted. Don’t let 343i’s absolute failure with ‘Halo 5’ be what defines what you know about these awesome characters. I impore you to at least give the books ‘The Fall of Reach’ and ‘First Strike’ a try if you want to know what the real Blue Team is like.
> 2533275008489126;1:
> Playing through the campaign, I honestly didn’t find my fireteam to be interesting. Now with Blue Team, it is justified for their bland personality as the members are canonically trained to have a neutral, bland personality. However, I would have liked to see more distinct personalities with the members of Fireteam Osiris, considering that they are more like humans than machines. I didn’t have a liking to Vale nor Tanaka as they didn’t show too much expression in the game. To be frank Tanaka even felt like she was only there to even out the number of men and women on the team.
>
> In order to make them feel more interactive and dynamic, they should have more distinct personalities, similar to how members of Left 4 Dead teams are. In Left 4 Dead, each team member has one of four types of personalities:
> -Optimistic (Louis and Ellis)
> -Pessimistic (Francis and Nick)
> -Leader (Bill and Coach)
> -Detached (Zoey and Rochelle)
>
> With these four distinct personalities, each team member in Left 4 Dead feels unique and valuable. Whenever one team member dies, it truly feels like the team lost someone important. In comparison to the squad in Halo 5, the team members don’t feel as important. I don’t feel bad if Vale gets killed or if Fred gets stuck by a grenade. They don’t feel dynamic, unique, or interactive with their bland personality.
Please don’t tell me you are believing the crap that a certain bald 343i employee has told you (who’s name I won’t say because the mods here tend to have a cob shoved up their butt if I name name’s.) Blue Team has FAR from a bland personality. Read The Fall of Reach, First Strike, and Ghosts of Onyx again. And I don’t mean the crappy 2010 re releases. I mean the orginal books. They each have individual personalities. Kelly is the energetic and caring one who can run really fast, Fred is the more down to Earth one who loves twirling knives. Linda is the quiet one who just loves to snipe. And that is not even getting into the others like Sam or Kurt.
> 2533275008489126;1:
> I didn’t have a liking to Vale nor Tanaka as they didn’t show too much expression in the game. To be frank Tanaka even felt like she was only there to even out the number of men and women on the team.
And yet Tanaka is literally the only character in the game who has an actual arc - who develops to the point where she ends the game a different person to who she was at the start of it.
> 2533274811368357;6:
> > 2533275008489126;1:
> > I didn’t have a liking to Vale nor Tanaka as they didn’t show too much expression in the game. To be frank Tanaka even felt like she was only there to even out the number of men and women on the team.
>
>
> And yet Tanaka is literally the only character in the game who has an actual arc - who develops to the point where she ends the game a different person to who she was at the start of it.
This is a very overlooked part of the story, as you said by the end of the game Tanaka despite the lack of screen time actually develops as a character.
> 2533274811368357;6:
> > 2533275008489126;1:
> >
>
>
> And yet Tanaka is literally the only character in the game who has an actual arc - who develops to the point where she ends the game a different person to who she was at the start of it.
Care to elaborate on this?
Anyway, I think giving them more defined attitudes and combat roles would go a long way. They act pretty much the same on and off the battlefield.
There should be a ranged weapons expert, heavy, medic, etc. and they shouldn’t all be the same person with different backstories; One thing I liked about Noble Team was that they didn’t always gel with one another, and they reacted differently or had differing opinions often.
> 2533274832335336;9:
> > 2533274811368357;6:
> > > 2533275008489126;1:
> > >
> >
> >
> > And yet Tanaka is literally the only character in the game who has an actual arc - who develops to the point where she ends the game a different person to who she was at the start of it.
>
>
> Care to elaborate on this?
ajw34307 already wrote about this a lot on his blog. It’s totally worth a read. His analysis made feel greater appreciation for Fireteam Osiris. I went from finding them flat and boring to very interesting. They’re the most relatable team of Spartans in setting, and they offer a unique perspective in the games.
> Anyway, I think giving them more defined attitudes and combat roles would go a long way. They act pretty much the same on and off the battlefield.
>
> There should be a ranged weapons expert, heavy, medic, etc. and they shouldn’t all be the same person with different backstories; One thing I liked about Noble Team was that they didn’t always gel with one another, and they reacted differently or had differing opinions often.
They sort of do.
FIRETEAM OSIRIS
Locke = Leader and former man-hunter
Tanaka = Engineer
Vale = Xenoanthropologist and diplomat
Buck = Advisor and mentor
BLUE TEAM
John-117 = Leader
Fred-104 = CQB Specialist
Kelly-087 = Scout
Linda-058 = Sniper
You can argue that they’re roles aren’t as well defined in the story, but they are there. I personally think more should have been done to highlight their personalities in relation to their roles, particularly for Blue Team. But you do see Locke’s excellent social skills, Vale’s cleverness and knowledge of alien cultures and Buck’s charming insight. We just never see any of this for Blue Team. Fred makes a few good quips and Linda is characteristically quiet, but that just isn’t enough to define the roles of these characters. And there’s no cutscenes which define any of Blue Team’s special abilities.
Each team arguing would have been interesting. I think it would have been great to see. Too bad Halo 5 is extremely “by the numbers” and lacks tension and conflict. There’s some elements of this between Blue Team at the start of the game when Fred expresses concern about Chief’s mental state, but this is dropped after the second level. It would have been interesting to see some intense drama between both teams. It’s just like how Chief instantly disagrees with everything Cortana says. There’s no inner conflict, uncertainly or reason to believe Chief could violate his principles – and it’s just boring.
> 2533274929494620;10:
> > 2533274832335336;9:
> > > 2533274811368357;6:
> > > > 2533275008489126;1:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And yet Tanaka is literally the only character in the game who has an actual arc - who develops to the point where she ends the game a different person to who she was at the start of it.
> >
> >
> > Care to elaborate on this?
>
>
> ajw34307 already wrote about this a lot on his blog. It’s totally worth a read. His analysis made feel greater appreciation for Fireteam Osiris. I went from finding them flat and boring to very interesting. They’re the most relatable team of Spartans in setting, and they offer a unique perspective in the games.
>
>
>
>
> > Anyway, I think giving them more defined attitudes and combat roles would go a long way. They act pretty much the same on and off the battlefield.
> >
> > There should be a ranged weapons expert, heavy, medic, etc. and they shouldn’t all be the same person with different backstories; One thing I liked about Noble Team was that they didn’t always gel with one another, and they reacted differently or had differing opinions often.
>
>
> They sort of do.
>
> FIRETEAM OSIRIS
> Locke = Leader and former man-hunter
> Tanaka = Engineer
> Vale = Xenoanthropologist and diplomat
> Buck = Advisor and mentor
>
> BLUE TEAM
> John-117 = Leader
> Fred-104 = CQB Specialist
> Kelly-087 = Scout
> Linda-058 = Sniper
>
> You can argue that they’re roles aren’t as well defined in the story, but they are there. I personally think more should have been done to highlight their personalities in relation to their roles, particularly for Blue Team. But you do see Locke’s excellent social skills, Vale’s cleverness and knowledge of alien cultures and Buck’s charming insight. We just never see any of this for Blue Team. Fred makes a few good quips and Linda is characteristically quiet, but that just isn’t enough to define the roles of these characters. And there’s no cutscenes which define any of Blue Team’s special abilities.
>
> Each team arguing would have been interesting. I think it would have been great to see. Too bad Halo 5 is extremely “by the numbers” and lacks tension and conflict. There’s some elements of this between Blue Team at the start of the game when Fred expresses concern about Chief’s mental state, but this is dropped after the second level. It would have been interesting to see some intense drama between both teams. It’s just like how Chief instantly disagrees with everything Cortana says. There’s no inner conflict, uncertainly or reason to believe Chief could violate his principles – and it’s just boring.
I disagree, as someone who lives a mostly black and white mentality lifestyle myself (I come from a police officer family and am trying to be one too) I like seeing at least one person stick to what they believe in. I don’t mind a little gray here and there, but too many shows and too many video games are giving us the “brooding, everything is deep, man” type of characterization lately and I am getting sick to death of it. When I want, gray, I want Untouchables levels of Gray, not Game of -Yoinking!- Thrones levels.
I dunno, I’m just not seeing it with Tanaka. I don’t really see what he says is an “arc” as much more than her being very slightly different in one cutscene at the end of the game than one from the beginning. No events of the story specifically highlight her opening up to Osiris, or even being reclusive to begin with. She’s just as talkative in-game throughout as far as I could tell. It’s just too subtle.
Again using Noble as an example in a similar instance, there wasn’t much growth for Kat either and it’s handled largely the same, but it’s far more obvious. Kat doesn’t like Six as a replacement for Thom, and at the beginning she symbolically stops Six from entering the room. She seems to mostly ignore him and later snatches a data chip from him for no reason.
Later after running a few missions with him, when she’s guiding Six through New Alexandria she’s talking more comfortably as she gives you mission objectives, and she openly compliments Six for his work.
I mean, that’s not god-tier writing, but I feel that’s more of an arc than Tanaka’s and Kat certainly has more character than Tanaka when you also factor in her know-it-all sarcasm and constant use of technology.
I think they were just badly portrayed in the game. Blue Team especially, imo. They could’ve done so much more to show their relationship, but they just didn’t for some reason. Osiris are a fairly new team in comparison, but there has been some effort to flesh out the characters more (I’m not sure it worked, but, regardless). I don’t understand how they messed up Buck, though. All they really had to do was look at ODST, but his character seems to have completely changed. I didn’t read the New Blood book, so maybe he changed in that but. I was disappointed in him. He was my fave in ODST.
> 2533275034067023;11:
> > 2533274929494620;10:
> > > 2533274832335336;9:
> > > > 2533274811368357;6:
> > > > > 2533275008489126;1:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And yet Tanaka is literally the only character in the game who has an actual arc - who develops to the point where she ends the game a different person to who she was at the start of it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Care to elaborate on this?
> >
> >
> > ajw34307 already wrote about this a lot on his blog. It’s totally worth a read. His analysis made feel greater appreciation for Fireteam Osiris. I went from finding them flat and boring to very interesting. They’re the most relatable team of Spartans in setting, and they offer a unique perspective in the games.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Anyway, I think giving them more defined attitudes and combat roles would go a long way. They act pretty much the same on and off the battlefield.
> > >
> > > There should be a ranged weapons expert, heavy, medic, etc. and they shouldn’t all be the same person with different backstories; One thing I liked about Noble Team was that they didn’t always gel with one another, and they reacted differently or had differing opinions often.
> >
> >
> > . It’s just like how Chief instantly disagrees with everything Cortana says. There’s no inner conflict, uncertainly or reason to believe Chief could violate his principles – and it’s just boring.
>
>
> I disagree, as someone who lives a mostly black and white mentality lifestyle myself (I come from a police officer family and am trying to be one too) I like seeing at least one person stick to what they believe in. I don’t mind a little gray here and there, but too many shows and too many video games are giving us the “brooding, everything is deep, man” type of characterization lately and I am getting sick to death of it. When I want, gray, I want Untouchables levels of Gray, not Game of -Yoinking!- Thrones levels.
At the risk of sounding blunt, it doesn’t exactly matter what level of greyness you wanted it to be. The simple fact of the matter is the marketing promised us a much deeper game than the one we got. The trailers suggested deep philosophical differences between Chief and Locke. And then all it really boiled down to was Chief going AWOL so he could personally go after Cortana. Even when we find her and discover that she’s now proposing an imperial peace, Chief expresses no uncertainly or inner conflict and it’s just boring. And I’m not even in the minority with this position.
> 2533274929494620;14:
> > 2533275034067023;11:
> > > 2533274929494620;10:
> > > > 2533274832335336;9:
> > > > > 2533274811368357;6:
> > > > > > 2533275008489126;1:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And yet Tanaka is literally the only character in the game who has an actual arc - who develops to the point where she ends the game a different person to who she was at the start of it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Care to elaborate on this?
> > >
> > >
> > > ajw34307 already wrote about this a lot on his blog. It’s totally worth a read. His analysis made feel greater appreciation for Fireteam Osiris. I went from finding them flat and boring to very interesting. They’re the most relatable team of Spartans in setting, and they offer a unique perspective in the games.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Anyway, I think giving them more defined attitudes and combat roles would go a long way. They act pretty much the same on and off the battlefield.
> > > >
> > > > There should be a ranged weapons expert, heavy, medic, etc. and they shouldn’t all be the same person with different backstories; One thing I liked about Noble Team was that they didn’t always gel with one another, and they reacted differently or had differing opinions often.
> > >
> > >
> > > . It’s just like how Chief instantly disagrees with everything Cortana says. There’s no inner conflict, uncertainly or reason to believe Chief could violate his principles – and it’s just boring.
> >
> >
> > I disagree, as someone who lives a mostly black and white mentality lifestyle myself (I come from a police officer family and am trying to be one too) I like seeing at least one person stick to what they believe in. I don’t mind a little gray here and there, but too many shows and too many video games are giving us the “brooding, everything is deep, man” type of characterization lately and I am getting sick to death of it. When I want, gray, I want Untouchables levels of Gray, not Game of -Yoinking!- Thrones levels.
>
>
> At the risk of sounding blunt, it doesn’t exactly matter what level of greyness you wanted it to be. The simple fact of the matter is the marketing promised us a much deeper game than the one we got. The trailers suggested deep philosophical differences between Chief and Locke. And then all it really boiled down to was Chief going AWOL so he could personally go after Cortana. Even when we find her and discover that she’s now proposing an imperial peace, Chief expresses no uncertainly or inner conflict and it’s just boring. And I’m not even in the minority with this position.
Oh, I agree. I was expecting something bigger and better and more in depth. I just had this gut feeling that, even though Chief would be conflicted, his deeply ingrained morals and beliefs would win out eventually. At the end of the day, he is a good guy who works for the good guys. Don’t get me wrong, I like character development and what we got was underwhelming and bland. Tanaka, for example, went from quiet and solitary to giving a group “prayer” later in the game. This was an unexpected turn around that had little to know development. I expected SOME conflict from her character: someone who has lived in the Outer Colonies.
My issue is with shows and games jumping on the band wagon for “brooding and dark” just because it is there. A perfect example of a movie that does it right is Equilibrium with Christian Bale. THAT is how I like my gray movies, not people being dark for no reason. But we are at the point now where I want them to start making games more optimistic in tone again.
Of course, I do love games like Crash Bandicoot still, so it could just be casual gaming affecting my judgement. lol
I understand that the characters have all these arcs and backstories, but its not an excuse to give such poor teams in the game. I only really enjoyed Buck in Osiris, because… well, its buck, I mean c’mon. Everyone else just felt odd and stale, and tanaka was just a complete mindboggle to me. As for blue team, god, I could not help but feel angry, I know very little about blue team and in summary I know that they are all badass, I mean Linda alone is a godlike badass, and there are four of them! But in the game blue team felt so useless and out of place, it makes me wonder if there was any point, it makes me honestly believe it would be a better story if it was just chief going solo again. I completely agree with you OP, but I do have to say, for me, bland is being generous
> 2533274827061290;17:
> I understand that the characters have all these arcs and backstories, but its not an excuse to give such poor teams in the game. I only really enjoyed Buck in Osiris, because… well, its buck, I mean c’mon. Everyone else just felt odd and stale, and tanaka was just a complete mindboggle to me. As for blue team, god, I could not help but feel angry, I know very little about blue team and in summary I know that they are all badass, I mean Linda alone is a godlike badass, and there are four of them! But in the game blue team felt so useless and out of place, it makes me wonder if there was any point, it makes me honestly believe it would be a better story if it was just chief going solo again. I completely agree with you OP, but I do have to say, for me, bland is being generous
TBH I can’t help but feel the whole “squad” thing was just shoehorned into the game for no reason mid-development. Back when Halo 5 had just been officially revealed as “Halo 5: Guardians”, the cover art only had Chief and Locke on it.
There’s also a bunch of concept art in the loading screens that has only Chief walking around on Genesis in that cloak he had in the “Halo on Xbox One” trailer.
