So now we aren’t even getting co-op or forge at launch, meaning we’re paying full price while parts of the game are already free or not even included yet.
Why should we have to pay so much upfront for an incomplete product? When we can wait till its on sale, and actually have something resembling a full package?
Well, you said it yourself. Wait until it’s on sale.
the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
> 2533274953195665;3:
> the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
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> > 2533274953195665;3:
> > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
>
> ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
Yeah but like, you get his point right?
If you can put out the effort and time into monetising your game through microtramsactions you need to put out at minimum the same amount of effort to finish the game before you release it
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> > > 2533274953195665;3:
> > > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
> >
> > ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
>
> Yeah but like, you get his point right?
> If you can put out the effort and time into monetising your game through microtramsactions you need to put out at minimum the same amount of effort to finish the game before you release it
1 requires way less effort then the other and envolves completely different teams outside of some backend systems. One requires a basic plan on what items are there, testing xp gains, while higher ups decides whats sold, how much etc.
Co-op requires figruing out not only how camera systems will work for cutscenes transitions (given its all one shot) but also design changes to determine how co-op will work. Will it tether people, how does networking work if you dont tether people, how will check points work (local, entire group), are you going to use a respawn station instead of checkpoints cause of their effect on other players, does that station create a boring gameplay loop of die run back, die run back. If you use check points, will the in combat system be team wide, if not, how will the reset work for players, will it reset the world? If it doesnt, can that cheese the encounters?
Then you have bug fixes for that system on top of the core bugs for the campaign itself.
These systems are not similar to one another and saying “well you made this more simple progression and mtx system why isnt coop done” is a poor criticism given the requirements needed for each system
> 2533274840624875;6:
> > 2533274832130936;5:
> > > 2533274840624875;4:
> > > > 2533274953195665;3:
> > > > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
> > >
> > > ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
> >
> > Yeah but like, you get his point right?
> > If you can put out the effort and time into monetising your game through microtramsactions you need to put out at minimum the same amount of effort to finish the game before you release it
>
> 1 requires way less effort then the other and envolves completely different teams outside of some backend systems. One requires a basic plan on what items are there, testing xp gains, while higher ups decides whats sold, how much etc.
>
> Co-op requires figruing out not only how camera systems will work for cutscenes transitions (given its all one shot) but also design changes to determine how co-op will work. Will it tether people, how does networking work if you dont tether people, how will check points work (local, entire group), are you going to use a respawn station instead of checkpoints cause of their effect on other players, does that station create a boring gameplay loop of die run back, die run back. If you use check points, will the in combat system be team wide, if not, how will the reset work for players, will it reset the world? If it doesnt, can that cheese the encounters?
>
> Then you have bug fixes for that system on top of the core bugs for the campaign itself.
>
> These systems are not similar to one another and saying “well you made this more simple progression and mtx system why isnt coop done” is a poor criticism given the requirements needed for each system
Then how about I re-word
Microtransactions and monetisation should not be implemented or made a priotiry until the game is 100% complete
Well, would you rather spend 45 dollars on it then pay another 15 3 months later when coop launches? I see what you’re saying and I partly agree, but It’s better than what would essentially be financing the game lol
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> > 2533274840624875;6:
> > > 2533274832130936;5:
> > > > 2533274840624875;4:
> > > > > 2533274953195665;3:
> > > > > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
> > > >
> > > > ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
> > >
> > > Yeah but like, you get his point right?
> > > If you can put out the effort and time into monetising your game through microtramsactions you need to put out at minimum the same amount of effort to finish the game before you release it
> >
> > 1 requires way less effort then the other and envolves completely different teams outside of some backend systems. One requires a basic plan on what items are there, testing xp gains, while higher ups decides whats sold, how much etc.
> >
> > Co-op requires figruing out not only how camera systems will work for cutscenes transitions (given its all one shot) but also design changes to determine how co-op will work. Will it tether people, how does networking work if you dont tether people, how will check points work (local, entire group), are you going to use a respawn station instead of checkpoints cause of their effect on other players, does that station create a boring gameplay loop of die run back, die run back. If you use check points, will the in combat system be team wide, if not, how will the reset work for players, will it reset the world? If it doesnt, can that cheese the encounters?
> >
> > Then you have bug fixes for that system on top of the core bugs for the campaign itself.
> >
> > These systems are not similar to one another and saying “well you made this more simple progression and mtx system why isnt coop done” is a poor criticism given the requirements needed for each system
>
> Then how about I re-word
>
> Microtransactions and monetisation should not be implemented or made a priotiry until the game is 100% complete
perfectly fine, though there is something you need to consider with that. Is the game complete if the progression system isnt implemented? In order to make the progression system the mtx format has to be structured. They then go through iterations until they get the happy medium they want. The game isnt actually complete until that system is implemented.
And again, the people doing the mtx system are not the people doing the campaign or the co-op (obviously there may be some netowrk back end where the same people work on it but you get my point). Its just not a good comparison point and one thats almost entirely irrelevant to the development of campaign features. A better option would prob be, lets figure out co-op stuff first at the design phase instead of trying to do it later.
> 2533274964189700;1:
> So now we aren’t even getting co-op or forge at launch, meaning we’re paying full price while parts of the game are already free or not even included yet.
>
> Why should we have to pay so much upfront for an incomplete product? When we can wait till its on sale, and actually have something resembling a full package?
Easy solution - don’t buy the game until you feel like it’s worth the price.
We don’t even know if the campaign will be 60 dollars, so asking for a discount atm might be jumping the gun.
y’know there’s going to be a premium of sorts that bundles the battlepass and the campaign together you could just save some money that way.
or don’t bother installing the game at all if its that much of a bother for you.
> 2533274840624875;6:
> > 2533274832130936;5:
> > > 2533274840624875;4:
> > > > 2533274953195665;3:
> > > > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
> > >
> > > ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
> >
> > Yeah but like, you get his point right?
> > If you can put out the effort and time into monetising your game through microtramsactions you need to put out at minimum the same amount of effort to finish the game before you release it
>
> 1 requires way less effort then the other and envolves completely different teams outside of some backend systems. One requires a basic plan on what items are there, testing xp gains, while higher ups decides whats sold, how much etc.
>
> Co-op requires figruing out not only how camera systems will work for cutscenes transitions (given its all one shot) but also design changes to determine how co-op will work. Will it tether people, how does networking work if you dont tether people, how will check points work (local, entire group), are you going to use a respawn station instead of checkpoints cause of their effect on other players, does that station create a boring gameplay loop of die run back, die run back. If you use check points, will the in combat system be team wide, if not, how will the reset work for players, will it reset the world? If it doesnt, can that cheese the encounters?
>
> Then you have bug fixes for that system on top of the core bugs for the campaign itself.
>
> These systems are not similar to one another and saying “well you made this more simple progression and mtx system why isnt coop done” is a poor criticism given the requirements needed for each system
It’s oh so challenging and yet it was implemented in Halo CE almost an entire 20 years ago on hardware that doesn’t even compare to todays. Yeah cry me a river 343, the fact this isn’t implemented is an actual joke. What have they been doing for the past 6 years? Twiddling their thumbs?
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> > 2533274840624875;6:
> > > 2533274832130936;5:
> > > > 2533274840624875;4:
> > > > > 2533274953195665;3:
> > > > > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
> > > >
> > > > ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
> > >
> > > Yeah but like, you get his point right?
> > > If you can put out the effort and time into monetising your game through microtramsactions you need to put out at minimum the same amount of effort to finish the game before you release it
> >
> > 1 requires way less effort then the other and envolves completely different teams outside of some backend systems. One requires a basic plan on what items are there, testing xp gains, while higher ups decides whats sold, how much etc.
> >
> > Co-op requires figruing out not only how camera systems will work for cutscenes transitions (given its all one shot) but also design changes to determine how co-op will work. Will it tether people, how does networking work if you dont tether people, how will check points work (local, entire group), are you going to use a respawn station instead of checkpoints cause of their effect on other players, does that station create a boring gameplay loop of die run back, die run back. If you use check points, will the in combat system be team wide, if not, how will the reset work for players, will it reset the world? If it doesnt, can that cheese the encounters?
> >
> > Then you have bug fixes for that system on top of the core bugs for the campaign itself.
> >
> > These systems are not similar to one another and saying “well you made this more simple progression and mtx system why isnt coop done” is a poor criticism given the requirements needed for each system
>
> It’s oh so challenging and yet it was implemented in Halo CE almost an entire 20 years ago on hardware that doesn’t even compare to todays. Yeah cry me a river 343, the fact this isn’t implemented is an actual joke. What have they been doing for the past 6 years? Twiddling their thumbs?
CE isnts a open world/semi open world game, lacked online co-op, lacked cross platform co-op using hardware with different specs. No one can can actually compare these systems with infinites given, outside of gameplay, there are major differences between infinite and past iterations of halo. Your coming from a place of ignorence. All I presented matters when it comes to something people deam as “simple”
> 2533274840624875;4:
> > 2533274953195665;3:
> > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
>
> ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
A feature that has been part of the game since the beginning should be in the game at launch.
If you have time to impliment a game store and micros, where are your priorities at? Making a good game or making lots of money?
The games industry seems to be one or the other these days.
Secret is, good games make a legacy. Money is easy after that.
> 2533275012076335;15:
> > 2533274840624875;4:
> > > 2533274953195665;3:
> > > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
> >
> > ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
>
> A feature that has been part of the game since the beginning should be in the game at launch.
> If you have time to impliment a game store and micros, where are your priorities at? Making a good game or making lots of money?
>
> The games industry seems to be one or the other these days.
>
> Secret is, good games make a legacy. Money is easy after that.
You do realize the people and internal teams that create coop and micros are completely different. I’m willing to bet neither had an opinion or say on each others product. Just because one team got there side done doesn’t mean its okay to rip on them.
> 2533275012076335;15:
> > 2533274840624875;4:
> > > 2533274953195665;3:
> > > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
> >
> > ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
>
> A feature that has been part of the game since the beginning should be in the game at launch.
> If you have time to impliment a game store and micros, where are your priorities at? Making a good game or making lots of money?
>
> The games industry seems to be one or the other these days.
>
> Secret is, good games make a legacy. Money is easy after that.
way to sounds philospfical in a topic that ultimently doesnt matter.
Anyway, again, thats not how any form of development works. I could knock down a McDonalds and while its being designed also begin planning the menu. The menu takes less work and is managed by a different group then the construction workers making the McDonalds. The workers then realize there was an issue with spacing so they are going to be missing a table that was there before. Menu has been done for months but they decide to complete the building anyway given 1 less table is unimportant.
Of course not a perfect analogy given you cant change the McDonalds to add 1 table, you can add co-op to the compaign of software.
> 2533274964189700;1:
> So now we aren’t even getting co-op or forge at launch, meaning we’re paying full price while parts of the game are already free or not even included yet.
>
> Why should we have to pay so much upfront for an incomplete product? When we can wait till its on sale, and actually have something resembling a full package?
That doesn’t mean the game isn’t still worth $60.
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> > 2533275012076335;15:
> > > 2533274840624875;4:
> > > > 2533274953195665;3:
> > > > the $60 campaign is gonna release with a huge feature missing but I bet the battlepasses and microtransactions are gonna be fully fleshed out and ready to go
> > >
> > > ummm you know those systems require way different requirements and tools right? I mean, co-op has actual design challenges that can break the entire campaign experience.
> >
> > A feature that has been part of the game since the beginning should be in the game at launch.
> > If you have time to impliment a game store and micros, where are your priorities at? Making a good game or making lots of money?
> >
> > The games industry seems to be one or the other these days.
> >
> > Secret is, good games make a legacy. Money is easy after that.
>
> You do realize the people and internal teams that create coop and micros are completely different. I’m willing to bet neither had an opinion or say on each others product. Just because one team got there side done doesn’t mean its okay to rip on them.
Yeah this is what the community doesn’t get it seems like. 343i needs to come out and state why it’s being delayed and add transparency to the matter. I feel like this would help the community right now.