Bungie v. 343 view on Forerunners

Games Other Halo
1

As some of you are aware, Bungie originally intended for the forerunners to be genetically identical to humans; therefore we are their direct ancestors.
“According to Bungie employee David Candland, Bungie’s intentions for the connection between humanity and Forerunner was that they were one and the same; this was hinted repeatedly throughout the Halo Trilogy and further explored in Staten’s novel, Halo: Contact Harvest.”

Until reading the “Forerunner” halopedian page, I didn’t know that the humans and forerunners were different (Sorry I’m behind, I don’t buy anything halo besides the games)
343 changed it up by stating we are genetically similar, yet not the same, and instead we were chosen as the custodians of the galaxy by them (Even though the forerunners considered us a “naturally violent” race after the human-forerunner war 110,000 years ago, so this doesn’t make sense to me). What I think is lame is that that apparently Forerunners are blue, black, pink or purple with pink and/or blue hair… Yet we are suppose to be genetically similar??? Wtf? Are these Forerunners or fairy’s?

I honestly don’t understand why 343 would change the original idea (Which I personally think was better). Anyways, I have not read Cryptum or Primordium, so if anyone would like to shed some light on why you think 343 changed the general idea that Bungie had, please feel free.

2

We would be direct descendants and they would be the ancestors. But i haven’t really looked into this nor did i know they had odd skin colors.

3

You’ll understand a lot by reading Cryptum and Primordium. Both are fantastic. I wouldn’t really call it ‘changed’ so much as 343i just going in the direction that’ll work for their story.

4

The Forerunners are Humanoid…ish. The Promethians however are AI servants which is why they are so alienic. The Knights are basically mini War-Spyhnxes.

5

> Until reading the “Forerunner” halopedian page, I didn’t know that the humans and forerunners were different (Sorry I’m behind, I don’t buy anything halo besides the games)
> 343 changed it up by stating we are genetically similar, yet not the same, and instead we were chosen as the custodians of the galaxy by them (Even though the forerunners considered us a “naturally violent” race after the human-forerunner war 110,000 years ago, so this doesn’t make sense to me). What I think is lame is that that apparently Forerunners are blue, black, pink or purple with pink and/or blue hair… Yet we are suppose to be genetically similar??? Wtf? Are these Forerunners or fairy’s?

If you really want to understand why the Forerunners would entrust the galaxy to the humans, you’ll have to do a lot more reading. The best thing to do would probably be to read the Forerunner saga of books yourself. It’s a lot more complicated than you’re making it out to be. A 110,000 years is a long time.

I once heard on a show on the Discovery channel or something that the odds of living beings from another planet looking anything like us are astronomically low. The Forerunners, humans, Sangheili, Unggoy, Kig-Yar, etc. are all pretty damn similar if you think about it. Two arms, two legs, two eyes.

Considering that the Precursors are supposedly what created all the life in the galaxy, it kind of makes sense that all of those races are so similar, and yet different.

> I honestly don’t understand why 343 would change the original idea (Which I personally think was better). Anyways, I have not read Cryptum or Primordium, so if anyone would like to shed some light on why you think 343 changed the general idea that Bungie had, please feel free.

Probably because they liked their idea more. That’s the only reason I can think of. I like the direction 343i is going with the story much more than the direction Bungie was taking it… Which was right into the ground. Six feet under.

6

> The Forerunners are Humanoid…ish. The Promethians however are AI servants which is why they are so alienic. The Knights are basically mini War-Spyhnxes.

well the prometheans is a rank/title certain forerunners in the miltary hold and they created those AI’s to fight for them some people have gotten confused after those AI’s were revealed and how 343i talked about them some people think that the knight etc are actual prometheans but are just AI’s of promethean origin like monitors and sentinels are from basic forerunner origin.

7

I prefer the 343 angle. Much more room for expansion and inter-faction conflict.

8

343 has taken too many liberties with the lore, and frankly have revealed WAY too much.

The Precursors created all life? Yeah, no. I’m not buying that BS. That is way too declarative and out of nowhere.

9

> As some of you are aware, Bungie originally intended for the forerunners to be genetically identical to humans; therefore we are their direct ancestors.
> “According to Bungie employee David Candland, Bungie’s intentions for the connection between humanity and Forerunner was that they were one and the same; this was hinted repeatedly throughout the Halo Trilogy and further explored in Staten’s novel, Halo: Contact Harvest.”
>
> Until reading the “Forerunner” halopedian page, I didn’t know that the humans and forerunners were different (Sorry I’m behind, I don’t buy anything halo besides the games)
> 343 changed it up by stating we are genetically similar, yet not the same, and instead we were chosen as the custodians of the galaxy by them (Even though the forerunners considered us a “naturally violent” race after the human-forerunner war 110,000 years ago, so this doesn’t make sense to me). What I think is lame is that that apparently Forerunners are blue, black, pink or purple with pink and/or blue hair… Yet we are suppose to be genetically similar??? Wtf? Are these Forerunners or fairy’s?
>
> I honestly don’t understand why 343 would change the original idea (Which I personally think was better). Anyways, I have not read Cryptum or Primordium, so if anyone would like to shed some light on why you think 343 changed the general idea that Bungie had, please feel free.

They didn’t change anything, just expanded on what we already knew. “Forernner” is a label used to describe the Mantle’s current bearers, not necessarily one race, hence “you are Forerunner.”

And we are still genetically similar thanks to the Precursors, but with minor differences. In fact, come to think of it, Bungie hinted at the exact opposite to what you were saying. In the terminals we learn that the Forerunners found us as a seperate race on the planet earth, we didn’t come from them.

Above me: What do you mean “declarative?” It’s a fact. They were creators of life. How is it hard to believe that when even Bungie was hinting at the idea. Even the Forerunners could create new life, why couldn’t a more advanced race?

10

i didnt know bungie and 343 had their own ideas on what the forerunners would physically look like i only thought they had their own ideas on how they looked with their combat skin on, so i have just found out from this that bungie wanted forerunners to look like humans and 343 for them to look different from humans but carry some similar genetics, i always thought that 343i’s idea on them was always the case from the start i always thought that was bungies idea, all this time from day one i was under the impression that the forerunners had always looked different from humans but carried similar genetics, thats weird.

11

> The Forerunners are Humanoid…ish. The Promethians however are AI servants which is why they are so alienic. The Knights are basically mini War-Spyhnxes.

Correction the Promethians are not all AI
in actuality the Promethian is the military class of forerunner, when these military pass on there brain is scanned and all data is transferred into an AI unit
while some promethians if bannished get put into a form of cryo sleep sort of like a temporary mumification with the drained body fluids and all
until revived of course
these bannished living promethians are locked away within a cryptum.
So we can still expect to see a main leader for these promethian AI’s later on in halo which would be more story with a meaning to the cause that we have yet to fully learn in halo 4.

basically think of the Halo 4 enemys as a mech//futuristic-past//AI//zombie

12

> As some of you are aware, Bungie originally intended for the forerunners to be genetically identical to humans; therefore we are their direct ancestors.
> “According to Bungie employee David Candland, Bungie’s intentions for the connection between humanity and Forerunner was that they were one and the same; this was hinted repeatedly throughout the Halo Trilogy and further explored in Staten’s novel, Halo: Contact Harvest.”
>
> Until reading the “Forerunner” halopedian page, I didn’t know that the humans and forerunners were different (Sorry I’m behind, I don’t buy anything halo besides the games)
> 343 changed it up by stating we are <mark>genetically similar</mark>, yet not the same, and instead we were chosen as the custodians of the galaxy by them (Even though the forerunners considered us a “naturally violent” race after the human-forerunner war 110,000 years ago, so this doesn’t make sense to me). <mark>What I think is lame is that that apparently Forerunners are blue, black, pink or purple with pink and/or blue hair… Yet we are suppose to be genetically similar??? Wtf? Are these Forerunners or fairy’s?</mark>
>
> I honestly don’t understand why 343 would change the original idea (Which I personally think was better). Anyways, I have not read Cryptum or Primordium, so if anyone would like to shed some light on why you think 343 changed the general idea that Bungie had, please feel free.

What you have to take into account is how similar the two species are.

Also it takes such a small amount of difference in the genetic code for relatively big differences… i mean our DNA code is approximately 98% identical to a chimpanzee. we share 90% of our genetics with cats. we also share 60% with fruit flies! source if anyone wants a read.

the genes for skin and hair colour take up a tiny amount of the DNA code, so this is completely plausible

p.s. i am sorry if you were more annoyed with forerunners colouring than us being genetically similar to them

13

> As some of you are aware, Bungie originally intended for the forerunners to be genetically identical to humans; therefore we are their direct ancestors.
> “According to Bungie employee David Candland, Bungie’s intentions for the connection between humanity and Forerunner was that they were one and the same; this was hinted repeatedly throughout the Halo Trilogy and further explored in Staten’s novel, Halo: Contact Harvest.”
>
> Until reading the “Forerunner” halopedian page, I didn’t know that the humans and forerunners were different (Sorry I’m behind, I don’t buy anything halo besides the games)
> 343 changed it up by stating we are genetically similar, yet not the same, and instead we were chosen as the custodians of the galaxy by them (Even though the forerunners considered us a “naturally violent” race after the human-forerunner war 110,000 years ago, so this doesn’t make sense to me). What I think is lame is that that apparently Forerunners are blue, black, pink or purple with pink and/or blue hair… Yet we are suppose to be genetically similar??? Wtf? Are these Forerunners or fairy’s?
>
> I honestly don’t understand why 343 would change the original idea (Which I personally think was better). Anyways, I have not read Cryptum or Primordium, so if anyone would like to shed some light on why you think 343 changed the general idea that Bungie had, please feel free.

Fist of all, the precursors were the ones who elected Humanity to taker over the Forerunner’s position as carers of the mantle, which was never given to them, they took it by force. Secondly, skin color and external visual features mean nothing, they do not necessarily determine a race’s biological connection to another’s, that is down to DNA. Look at dogs for example, there are so many different variations in breeds, but they still have the same common ancestor and share very similar DNA, but after generations of different evolutionary paths taken, that DNA now has slight differences for each breed, but still retains the core DNA traits.

And the same applies for Humans and Forerunners, the skin colors of the Forerunners may have helped them survive different environmental conditions back in their early stages of evolution, and as a result they have certain features about them that are very different to Humans, but that does not mean that they are entirely different, they still have a very humanoid skeletal structure and have virtually the same biology.

The Forerunner’s features are not that extreme to be honest. Skin color in humans is determined by melanin concentrations in the skin, giving each human being a different skin tone, people of African decent have high concentrations of melanin in their skin, giving them a dark brown skin color, or in some cases very dark brown, almost black in appearance. With people of European decent, they have a much lower concentration of melanin in their skin, giving them peachy, or white skin in appearance. Which for the different environments helped both types of Humans survive. For early Africans, having dark skin that protected them from the harmful rays of the intense sun on the equator was a very useful biological trait, that would help them get the right amount of vitamin D in them. For early Europeans, having much lighter skin that was easily penetrated by the sun was very useful for them in their environment, because the sun is much weaker there, so having dark skin would simple be detrimental to their health.

But melanin does not always determine skin color. For example, Eskimos live very near to the northern hemisphere where the sun’s rays a very weak, ideally they should have almost milky white skin, but because of their diet of fish with a very strong brown pigment, they have developed brown skin with a yellowish hue to it. So environment is what determines skin color and features and much more, Chemicals, elements, diet and other things. But basically, just because the Forerunner’s various skin tones seem very alien to Human skin tones, does not mean that they species do not have common ancestry or DNA, which has been proven to be true in the books. I could go on, but i’d be here all day, I hope it helped you understand a bit better.

14

> What I think is lame is that that apparently Forerunners are blue, black, pink or purple with pink and/or blue hair… Yet we are suppose to be genetically similar??? Wtf? Are these Forerunners or fairy’s?

Look at the little racist.
All kidding aside, we do share half of our genes with a banana, so it makes sense.

15

> We would be direct descendants and they would be the ancestors. But i haven’t really looked into this nor did i know they had odd skin colors.

U sure? What about prehistoric humans?

> As some of you are aware, Bungie originally intended for the forerunners to be genetically identical to humans; therefore we are their direct ancestors.
> “According to Bungie employee David Candland, Bungie’s intentions for the connection between humanity and Forerunner was that they were one and the same; this was hinted repeatedly throughout the Halo Trilogy and further explored in Staten’s novel, Halo: Contact Harvest.”
>
> Until reading the “Forerunner” halopedian page, I didn’t know that the humans and forerunners were different (Sorry I’m behind, I don’t buy anything halo besides the games)
> 343 changed it up by stating we are genetically similar, yet not the same, and instead we were chosen as the custodians of the galaxy by them (Even though the forerunners considered us a “naturally violent” race after the human-forerunner war 110,000 years ago, so this doesn’t make sense to me). What I think is lame is that that apparently Forerunners are blue, black, pink or purple with pink and/or blue hair… Yet we are suppose to be genetically similar??? Wtf? Are these Forerunners or fairy’s?
>
> I honestly don’t understand why 343 would change the original idea (Which I personally think was better). Anyways, I have not read Cryptum or Primordium, so if anyone would like to shed some light on why you think 343 changed the general idea that Bungie had, please feel free.

If you look closely at the promethean knights, there are human skulls within the head, my guess its a humanoid central nervous-system with a mechanical body.

The forerunners are known for their mutations. Collecting malleable dna from other species is a valid motive for abducting sample individuals of species from the various other worlds. (see halo legends). Maybe human genetic material serves as the base for their younger bodies?

16

> > (…)
>
> (…)
> But melanin does not always determine skin color. For example, Eskimos live very near to the northern hemisphere where the sun’s rays a very weak, ideally they should have almost milky white skin, but because of their diet of fish with a very strong brown pigment, they have developed brown skin with a yellowish hue to it. So environment is what determines skin color and features and much more, Chemicals, elements, diet and other things. But basically, just because the Forerunner’s various skin tones seem very alien to Human skin tones, does not mean that they species do not have common ancestry or DNA, which has been proven to be true in the books. I could go on, but i’d be here all day, I hope it helped you understand a bit better.

Actually, the harmful UV rays are stronger in the northern hemisphere. This is due to a weaker/thinner layer of atmosphere there. This is why peoples native to these places developed pigmented skin (or rather, did not loose it).

17

> > The Forerunners are Humanoid…ish. The Promethians however are AI servants which is why they are so alienic. The Knights are basically mini War-Spyhnxes.
>
> Correction the Promethians are not all AI
> in actuality the Promethian is the military class of forerunner, when these military pass on there brain is scanned and all data is transferred into an AI unit
> while some promethians if bannished get put into a form of cryo sleep sort of like a temporary mumification with the drained body fluids and all
> until revived of course
> these bannished living promethians are locked away within a cryptum.
> So we can still expect to see a main leader for these promethian AI’s later on in halo which would be more story with a meaning to the cause that we have yet to fully learn in halo 4.
>
> basically think of the Halo 4 enemys as a mech//futuristic-past//AI//zombie

A.I. Constructs and Cyborgs First!

18

> I once heard on a show on the Discovery channel or something that the odds of living beings from another planet looking anything like us are astronomically low. The Forerunners, humans, Sangheili, Unggoy, Kig-Yar, etc. are all pretty damn similar if you think about it. Two arms, two legs, two eyes.
>
> Considering that the Precursors are supposedly what created all the life in the galaxy, it kind of makes sense that all of those races are so similar, and yet different.

Depends on how you think about exobiology (the study of life-forms from other planets [Yes, scientists have already developed a field for this as we can make some pretty educated guesses]). Here are some things we know.

  1. Nucleic acids will probably be the primary method for encoding information to create on organism. Earth uses DNA. There are other forms of nucleic acid and these can be used in place of DNA, so some planets will probably use DNA and others use one of the other types of nucleic acid. Even then, there are many types of “nitrogenous bases” (i.e. adenine, thymine, guanine & cytosine are the four Earth uses in DNA) that might be used to create DNA, so while the method of encoding nucleic acids is extremely similar, the actual genes encoded will look very different.

  2. The senses that we use: vision, hearing, smell, taste, touch are all senses that can be considered “required” for interacting with the physical world. Therefore, the possession of organs that give aliens these “senses” is strongly probable. That means that they will have identifiable “eyes” & “ears.” The senses of smell and taste are what we call chemoreception, as they identify chemicals in atmosphere around us. WE can assume that aliens will be able to “smell” but they won’t necessarily have a “nose” or “tongue.”

  3. If you’re going to get off your planet, then you’ll probably need a method of locomotion. That means having a “skeleton” and “muscles” that can work with each other to move the body of the organism. The ability to manipulate objects with fine precision would require some type of “hand” with opposeable digits similar to fingers.

Outside of these requirements, things will then be determined by how the organisms evolved on their own planets. So in many respects we will be very similar to any organisms that we find out in the universe. But the “looks” of other organisms will probably vary tremendously due to the factors behind the evolution of those species on their planet of origin. The fact though is that if the Forerunner (or the Precursors) are nearly as strong as 343 makes out, seeding the universe with organisms that share DNA in common with them would not be out of the realm of possibility. The Forerunner Saga makes it seem like the Forerunner and humanity share a common set of DNA given them by the Precursors. The Precursors wanted us to inherit the Mantle, but the Forerunner took up the Mantle, angering the Precursors and unleashing the Flood on our galaxy.

19

> > > (…)
> >
> > (…)
> > But melanin does not always determine skin color. For example, Eskimos live very near to the northern hemisphere where the sun’s rays a very weak, ideally they should have almost milky white skin, but because of their diet of fish with a very strong brown pigment, they have developed brown skin with a yellowish hue to it. So environment is what determines skin color and features and much more, Chemicals, elements, diet and other things. But basically, just because the Forerunner’s various skin tones seem very alien to Human skin tones, does not mean that they species do not have common ancestry or DNA, which has been proven to be true in the books. I could go on, but i’d be here all day, I hope it helped you understand a bit better.
>
> Actually, the harmful UV rays are stronger in the northern hemisphere. This is due to a weaker/thinner layer of atmosphere there. This is why peoples native to these places developed pigmented skin (or rather, did not loose it).

Nope, I studied this for a long time, the sun’s rays in the northern hemisphere are much weaker than anywhere else in the world, not only is it geographically furthest away from the sun, the fact that it is so white up there means that most of the rays from the sun are just being reflected off of it’s surface, giving the sun very little chance to heat up the hostile environment, anything that wishes to survive there biologically “should” have white skin, but the Eskimos do not due to their diet, completely made up of different meats and fish.

20

While early on, Bungie intended Forerunners to be the direct ancestors of humanity, this changed with Halo 3. Halo 3 showed that Humans had evolved separately from Forerunners, and the two had no direct connection. This was also the first time that the Precursors were brought in, and these new beings were used as the connection between Forerunners and Humans, the Forerunners believe Humanity to have been created by the Precursors, just like the Forerunners. All this is brought up in Halo 3 or the Bestiarum, all this from Bungie before 343 studios existed.

So, it was with the addition of this new information that 343 began their development of the relationships between Humans, Forerunners, and Precursors.